Gwen Shamblin Lara 9: Perfecting Hypocrisy

[AmazonGrace]

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that if you give up all sin, like greed for food, and food, you will live forever and you will be one of those who live forever. 

Spoiler

 

[CTRLZero]

Uh...

"brilliant spiritual-billionaires" - is that like a stable genius?  "His Castle of Love" - oh, geez, the royalty theme, again.

And Gwen, the list of the narrow-sighted is like your job resume!  Is this daily devotional a parody?  ?

 

[Blue]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that if you give up all sin, like greed for food, and food, you will live forever and you will be one of those who live forever. 

  Hide contents

 

It's hard to imagine a devotional with LESS substance. There's no Biblical reference at all, which makes sense because I don't think "spiritual billionaire" or "Castle of Love" are in the Bible...

[AmazonGrace]

It sounds like a rave festival. But you know what cheers me up ? Lust is allowed as long it's not evening or a weekend.

[Blue]

42 minutes ago, Blue said:

It's hard to imagine a devotional with LESS substance. There's no Biblical reference at all, which makes sense because I don't think "spiritual billionaire" or "Castle of Love" are in the Bible...

To quote myself (can we do that? is that a thing?) it makes sense... because her followers believe she's a prophet... so her words ARE God's words... so she doesn't NEED a Biblical reference... she IS the Biblical reference... 

[ManyGoats]

16 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

But you know what cheers me up ? Lust is allowed as long it's not evening or a weekend.

I couldn't just give you a laugh emoji on the reaction bar. I have to tell you how much this made me laugh!!! 

[AmazonGrace]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

It's hard to imagine a devotional with LESS substance. There's no Biblical reference at all, which makes sense because I don't think "spiritual billionaire" or "Castle of Love" are in the Bible...

Neither is the lust thing. I mean, lust gets mentions in the context of frowning upon people who have extramarital sex, but AFAIK there is absolutely nothing in the Bible about whether lust is more or less acceptable if it's every weekend or in the evenings.

It's more likely to be a reference to an obscure apocryphal book, Song of Shriveled-Up Shrew, that says, "Oh husband, thou sex crazed fiend! Thou shalt not demand your wife to have intercourse with an increasing frequency. Thou got sex last Saturday and thou wantst sex again THIS WEEKEND? Thou canst not be serious."

[NarcissismKills]

The creepiness of Gwen discussing lust is immeasurable.

[Marmion]

7 hours ago, Blue said:

It's hard to imagine a devotional with LESS substance. There's no Biblical reference at all, which makes sense because I don't think "spiritual billionaire" or "Castle of Love" are in the Bible...

The closest references I can find , that have come to my previously brainwashed mind   , are this Bible passage , and  song, in regards to " spiritual millionaire "  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+6%3A19-21&version=NIV    

, and regarding " castle of love " , that particular buzz word brings this to my programmed mind .  

  

 

8 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

Uh...

"brilliant spiritual-billionaires" - is that like a stable genius?  "His Castle of Love" - oh, geez, the royalty theme, again.

And Gwen, the list of the narrow-sighted is like your job resume!  Is this daily devotional a parody?  ?

 

I'll just say it again , if you think that her remarks sound off the wall , you'd really be left scratching your head , if you ever were to attend a Nazarene church service , or even more so revival service .   For an example , here is a line from the sermon of  a Nazarene revivalist , I believe IIRC his name's Tim Hancock  , that has stuck with me all these years .   

Quote

God loves you so much that if he could die to save only one person , he would choose you , and you , and you , and you . Now you may be thinking that's more than one person , that doesn't make sense . But that's how great God's love is , it doesn't make sense . 

I think that he was trying to condemn the Calvinist doctrine of limited atonement  . But still , I have always thought it strange that a minister would confess that God's love is nonsense .    I guess though that it's still a comforting sentiment that God loves us all both uniquely , and equally , all at the same time .  

[Blue]

1 hour ago, Marmion said:

I'll just say it again , if you think that her remarks sound off the wall , you'd really be left scratching your head , if you ever were to attend a Nazarene church service , or even more so revival service .   For an example , here is a line from the sermon of  a Nazarene revivalist , I believe IIRC his name's Tim Hancock  , that has stuck with me all these years .   

It's crazy because we spent quite a few years in a Nazarene church, and never heard any of these teachings... I'm sure we just weren't at the point in life where we were really listening to it all super critically.

[Marmion]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

It's crazy because we spent quite a few years in a Nazarene church, and never heard any of these teachings... I'm sure we just weren't at the point in life where we were really listening to it all super critically.

It's not really emphasized all that much in the regular church services .  Now of days ,  they usually make some effort to downplay the distinctive doctrine , especially around outsiders .  This actually falls on the BITE model  , under information control .  

Quote

. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines 
   a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible 
   b.Control information at different levels and missions within group 
   c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when 

It mostly is brought out during revival services , which is usually why IIRC prospects and newly saved Christians were not encouraged to attend revival services , except for on Sunday , because the other days of the week were intended to instill such emotional control as this 

Quote

4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as 
   a. Identity guilt 
   b. You are not living up to your potential 
   c. Your family is deficient 
   d. Your past is suspect 
   e. Your affiliations are unwise 
   f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish 
   g. Social guilt 
   h. Historical guilt  ,  5. Instill fear, such as fear of: 
   a. Thinking independently 
   b. The outside world 
   c. Enemies 
   d. Losing one’s salvation 
   e. Leaving or being shunned by the group 
   f. Other’s disapproval  

But YMMV .   If you , or anyone else wants further proof , and not just my anecdotal accounts , you can  read transcripts of sermons by  early Nazarene figures , such as Uncle Bud Robinson   http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20958&forum=34  , for just one example , plus here is what the Nazarene Manual , sort of like the Church's equivalent to the Mormon's Doctrine & Covenants , says on the subject of entire sanctification  .  http://2017.manual.nazarene.org/section/christian-holiness-and-entire-sanctification/   

[Blue]

1 hour ago, Marmion said:

It's not really emphasized all that much in the regular church services .  Now of days ,  they usually make some effort to downplay the distinctive doctrine , especially around outsiders .  This actually falls on the BITE model  , under information control .  

It mostly is brought out during revival services , which is usually why IIRC prospects and newly saved Christians were not encouraged to attend revival services , except for on Sunday , because the other days of the week were intended to instill such emotional control as this 

But YMMV .   If you , or anyone else wants further proof 

Oh I'm not denying what you're saying... it's easy to confirm online in minutes. It's just interesting to hear it because, until I saw what you said and did some research, I had no idea the official stance of the Nazarene church on those things. We were highly involved, going to revivals and things like that, and never heard anything about the more controversial teachings... it makes me wonder if the preaching was almost watered down to make it a more acceptable message to the average Christian... or if living in a more liberal and open community has influenced how the message is preached. I know you're telling the truth... it's just makes me curious what factors have influenced the way it's presented where I am.

[RFfree]

18 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Today's Daily Delusions

  Reveal hidden contents

 

?? sounds like a new thread title there....good one ?

[RFSurvivor_2]

4 hours ago, RFfree said:

?? sounds like a new thread title there....good one ?

It has my vote!

[AmazonGrace]

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that RF is special because there is singing and dancing and  no one gets judged. (Except people who gain weight I guess.) It is a Community of Childlike Hearts and Childlike Hearts. 

Spoiler

[RFsurvivor]

15 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that RF is special because there is singing and dancing and  no one gets judged. (Except people who gain weight I guess.) It is a Community of Childlike Hearts and Childlike Hearts. 

  Hide contents

I don’t know what community Gwen is talking about...that was not what I experienced....is it Opposite Day and I missed the memo?

[ManyGoats]

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that RF is special because there is singing and dancing and  no one gets judged. (Except people who gain weight I guess.)

Well, and people who take meds for physical or psychological conditions. Plus those folks who aren't under authority. Not to mention the ones who haven't embraced "this message." Oh, and people who leave Remnant Fellowship. And worst of all -- ALL the other churches in the world because they are wrong, wrong, WRONG.

[SuperNova]

8 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Today's Daily Delusions tells us that RF is special because there is singing and dancing and  no one gets judged. (Except people who gain weight I guess.) It is a Community of Childlike Hearts and Childlike Hearts. 

  Hide contents

Gwen is idealizing high school. I'm not interested in singing or dancing. I don't compete with other people or think that I'm better than anyone else. I try not to judge others and if others judge me, I don't know about it. Even if I did, I wouldn't care.

Gwen claims that what she's offering is the very definition of popular and "everyone" wants it. I hate to burst her bubble but many people with emotional maturity don't need to seek validation through the opinions and groupthink of others. It's entirely possible to feel secure in yourself without mean girl Gwen and the RF posse. 

[freefromthin]

Didn't hear any mention of weight in this one. VERY surprising!

Edited October 10, 2019 by freefromthin

[SilverBeach]

19 hours ago, Blue said:

it makes me wonder if the preaching was almost watered down to make it a more acceptable message to the average Christian...

This is not atypical, the RCA denomination frequently does not include 'reformed' in the names of its churches. The affiliation is nominally mentioned in new member classes, but I had to dig to find out what the RCA really believes. It's more important to be the church of what's happening now, as Flip Wilson put it, and build attendance numbers, instead of being authentic. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

1 hour ago, freefromthin said:

Didn't hear any mention of weight in this one. VERY surprising!

@RFsurvivor, are Gwen and Joe (in the thumbnail) at the church/cult-site’s playground? 

Edited October 10, 2019 by RFSurvivor_2

[ManyGoats]

Quote

Didn't hear any mention of weight in this one. VERY surprising!

But we did get to hear that annoying song which repeats over and over and over..........

Edited October 10, 2019 by ManyGoats

[Marmion]

22 hours ago, Blue said:

. it  makes me wonder if the preaching was almost watered down to make it a more acceptable message to the average Christian... or if living in a more liberal and open community has influenced how the message is preached. I know you're telling the truth... it's just makes me curious what factors have influenced the way it's presented where I am

Along similar lines to what @SilverBeach  mentioned , there seems to be a tendency to downplay doctrinal differences , and instead emphasize what the Church holds in common with evangelicalism , more generally .  What Nazarenes want more than anything right now is to be seen , and accepted , as being evangelicals , who simply have a special focus on holy living , and discipleship .  So that's why they'll try to explain away their more controversial teaching of Christian perfection by presenting it as being an " imperfect perfection " .  An analogy they like to make , incidentally this analogy is also made by Mormons , among others , is that of a school student .  Let's say that you have a child who is middle school age , and gets straight A s .  Your child would then be a perfect student , for his or her gradient , but compared to a high school student , of whom more is expected , the child's academic achievement would be quite deficient .   Likewise , they will not expect a babe in Christ to be as spiritually mature as a seasoned saint . However , if the member were to fail to achieve the second blessing of entire sanctification , in what is considered to be a timely manner , then the Church of the Nazarene believes that the member is in danger of becoming lukewarm , and subsequently , and subsequently , flunking out of a state of grace .   This analogy , in respects to perfectionism , can even tend to cross over from the subject of sanctification , to other areas , such as education itself .  I remember that a scripture this one Nazarene church I attended liked to twist was 2 Timothy 2 : 15  .  If a student were to get good grades on his or her report card , the pastor would claim that it's because  the Holy Spirit  assisted in the learning process , and that's why Nazarenes are among the best students  . But if a student were to struggle in school , , I suspect that a number of people in the Church of the Nazarene might judge him or her as lacking a dedication to doing everything for the glory of God .  1 Corinthians 10 : 31    To cite a celebrity example , I wonder if the reason why Hoku Ho -Clements  , at one time one of the famous Nazarene pop stars , later came to leave the Church , and  describe herself as being a " recovering perfectionist " http://www.branchesoc.com/our-team/   , might have had something to do with her daughter's problems at school , at one time , and how it might have impacted her .    

But as we ex-Nazarenes have never had an equivalent of a Leah Remini , who'll dare to expose the problems that can be associated with the teachings and practices of the Church of the Nazarene , the way that Remini has with the Church of Scientology , I doubt that even if the Church of the Nazarene did have something to do with her daughter's anxiety , and I am not saying anything for sure , that Hoku would publicly mention it .   Anyway , lest I get too off track , I'll just end by saying that I think that it's easier for people to see Remnant Fellowship as being a cult , as it's so obviously aberrant , but with a church , such as the Nazarenes , which is on the surface more standardly evangelical , and is even a member of the National Association of Evangelicals , it might not be as readily apparent .  The closest example of a celebrity coming out and stating that the Holiness church she grew up in was in actuality a cult would be Glenn Close , in regards to Moral Re-Armament .  http:// https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/glenn-close-reveals-spent-childhood-cult-article-1.1976946    Although there have been other celebrities who've been at one time or another involved with the Church of the Nazarene , such as  Debbie Reynolds  , who was also the mother of fellow actress Carrie Fisher  , among others https://www.adherents.com/largecom/fam_nazarene.html , so far none have come out and said that it's a cult .  

[thoughtful]

6 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

the church of what's happening now, as Flip Wilson put it,

I love you.

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Today's Delusional is about lovebombing: how everyone instantly pretends to love you in order to draw you in the cult. 

Spoiler

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An Acts 2 Church

October 11, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved. Acts 2:42-47

The building of the True Church and care for this Kingdom on Earth results in a Community that is phenomenal. It is the picture of Acts 2 and the early Christians. The immediate love and connection members feel with other Saints is amazing—they are no longer alone, but instead have instant fellowship and friends for both adults and children, no matter where they live. Every conversation we have and everything we do has a purpose. We are not aimlessly getting together just to hang out or have dinner; the fellowship and the food that we are seeking is to do the Will of the Father.

 

Not sure why she posted a biblical quote about heathens that eat.