Gwen Shamblin Lara 9: Perfecting Hypocrisy

[CTRLZero]

4 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

<twirl, twirl> "Look how deliriously happy we are!" <twirl, twirl>

Snarky me was watching the drone footage (also twirling) and thought "there goes your money down the drain."   I do think Joe is getting the hang of the RF preaching style.   It looks like he's lost some weight, too. 

[WorseThan1Thinks]

On 10/3/2019 at 3:26 PM, matttmartin said:

Anyone who has left this group have anything helpful for a husband trying to get his wife out?

 

On 10/3/2019 at 3:42 PM, matttmartin said:

No.  She is always trying to get me to go to Brentwood.  I don't know if going would actually help or not.

@matttmartin

I am so sorry your wife is in Gwen Shamblin Lara's cult.

I lived this and it about destroyed me.  It did eventually destroy us and our family.  Hear me out as I will try to verbalize just a small piece of what's on my heart.

Do not under any circumstance move there.  Period.  The only thing you have going for you right now is distance.  If you think your wife is absorbed now even being far away, it will only get much worse if she is right there in Brentwood and even more surrounded by Remnant members.  No doubt she is already making the long trip there multiple times (all the Jewish festivals, conferences, weddings, etc).  It will only get much, much worse if you move there.  This cult is all consuming and she living there will only be more of a strain on your marriage.

Do you have kids?  If you do, your massively uphill battle just got worse.  Guaranteed, she will eventually pull them in.  If you fight that, you'll likely get very real threats of divorce (and eventually the real thing).  At first, my wife promised she wouldn't involve the kids.  Until she insisted she did.  

I cannot even speak of the massive amount of damage that has occurred to our kids.  It's beyond criminal, but somehow hidden under the guise of "freedom of religion".  No, my kids have not been physically beat to death (like 8 yr old Josef Smith was by his Remnant parents), but I strongly feel some of the psychological damage done to my kids is worse than if they were ever physically beat.  In every sense of the word, Gwen has mentally 'beat' my kids with the crap she spews in her cult.

On 10/4/2019 at 10:41 AM, matttmartin said:

She has been there.  She has been in since 2011.

She has always said she would not leave me, but then I saw that Gwen divorced David and that set off alarms for me.

I did try those books at first, but gave up.  It may be time to start again.

Thanks for sharing your story.  Was there anything in particular that 'woke' you up?

While it's not a guarantee, there is a very good chance your wife will eventually divorce you.  My wife constantly told me she would not leave me over Remnant.  Until she did.  At first, it was just literal threats of divorce if we didn't move there.  I wouldn't give in.  But the Remnant related issues grew and eventually I got served the divorce papers.  My wife literally chose Gwen and Remnant over her own husband of many years and was willing to break our children's family up over Remnant.  I have so, so, so many stories I cannot (right now) share here, but I hope they eventually come out. 

Also, my story of a marriage destroyed by Remnant is not unique.  

You know how a whore sleeps with a married person and becomes a home wrecker?  Gwen is worse than that.  She just steals a spouse away while selling grand illusions of a perfect life instead of sleeping with the spouse.  The same results.  I remember constantly thinking I'd much rather have had my wife cheat on me countless times than join Remnant.  I don't say that lightly. The implications of my wife in Remnant were that bad. 

For me (and many others), there was nothing I could do.  I tried literally everything.  She probably won't go to counseling with you (unless it's with Remnant leadership!!).  If she does go with you, the moment the counselor will mention the word cult, she will walk away.

Sorry to paint a bleak picture.  It's not necessarily hopeless, but it eventually was for me.  If yours is anything like mine (and I'm certain there are many similarities), the best advice I can give is surround yourself with a support group (family/friends) and at least get counseling yourself if your wife won't go.  Love your wife.  No matter how hard it is, try to love your wife thru this.  She won't see it (in fact, you'll always be the bad guy for not joining Remnant or not agreeing to move there or for not agreeing with Gwen), but that doesn't mean you stop loving her.

As you know by now, trying to talk her through things gets nowhere.  The arguments are beyond frustrating and seeing her lose all critical thinking and chose Remnant over yourself (and family) are devastating.  So I don't think talking her thru things will help.  For me, it ALWAYS backfired.  The only peace (fake peace) we had was if I didn't say anything at leave the HUGE white elephant in the room go unaddressed.  Again, find support for yourself.  I thought I was 'strong'.  For me, it wasn't enough to handle a spouse in Remnant.

What you will NOT ever get is any kind of Gwen or leadership saying "Go back to your husband.  Find another church if Remnant is causing strain in your marriage."  Nope, don't waste your time waiting for that to ever happen.  Your wife will get the opposite advice.  Gwen and leadership and all your wife's Remnant friends care more about another 'saint' on their membership list than saving a marriage and family.

If you put up no fight, give zero criticism of Gwen and Remnant, than you might save your marriage.  But for me, it was a miserable marriage with Remnant at the forefront.  It hurts to know your wife will listen to another man (a Remnant 'leader') over you.  It hurts to hear your wife say to your face after having a pretty good marriage for many, many years, a house, health, wonderful healthy kids, jobs, a great extended family "If you come with me to Brentwood, then maybe God will bless us." (completely blind to the blessings acquired outside of/before Remnant).  It was so frustrating to see how blind they are, yet won't listen to A THING you say.  

For me, I was convinced my wife being addicted to meth would have been easier to address than getting her to quit Remnant.  It was that bad.  It was that all consuming.  It was that devastating to our family.  My wife thought she was improving her life (and achieving salvation) by devoting her life to Gwen and Remnant's false teachings.  At least someone hooked on meth probably knows they are screwing up their life. 

Again, sorry if I'm painting a hopeless picture.  It's not totally hopeless, but under the best of circumstances, you have a long road ahead.  Prepare for the long road.

 

If you'd like, private message me. 

Whatever you do, do not move there.  Good luck.  God Bless.

[Blue]

5 hours ago, WeirdHarold said:

RF may be more that way than most groups, but the idea that no other group can compare with mine is very common.  I've heard many times that this group or the other was the "most loving" or most whatever that someone has ever experienced.  I have no doubt that most of the people who said that, if they were to relocate to someplace else and find a group to meet with regularly, eventually will say that about another group in the future.

That probably happens more with the more time one commits to the group.  That goes for in person meetings or services, and also recordings, videos, etc.  The more time you put into it, the more committed you become.  My family member "attends" at Brentwood via internet, but virtual attendance still reinforces and increases how "all in" my family member is.

I definitely agree that it's common. I think what makes RF slightly more unique is the idea that not only is their group better, but their group is the ONLY group following God properly. If they were to leave they might eventually feel that way about another group, but while the average person can leave a group they're a part of and someday find a new "best ever" group, RF people believe that if they leave "this message" then they're essentially leaving God and their faith.

I think most people who attend ANY group would say theirs is the best in some way, because if they knew another group was better, then they'd probably be in that group. And you're correct... even if I think my church has the best worship or best teaching or best children's church... if we moved to a new state we'd find a new church that eventually would have the best of whatever it is too. But the spiritual freedom to move and find a new church home is there because I don't have my salvation tied to a specific leader and congregation.

2 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

 

@matttmartin

I am so sorry your wife is in Gwen Shamblin Lara's cult.

I lived this and it about destroyed me.  It did eventually destroy us and our family.  Hear me out as I will try to verbalize just a small piece of what's on my heart.

Do not under any circumstance move there.  Period.  The only thing you have going for you right now is distance.  If you think your wife is absorbed now even being far away, it will only get much worse if she is right there in Brentwood and even more surrounded by Remnant members.  No doubt she is already making the long trip there multiple times (all the Jewish festivals, conferences, weddings, etc).  It will only get much, much worse if you move there.  This cult is all consuming and she living there will only be more of a strain on your marriage.

Do you have kids?  If you do, your massively uphill battle just got worse.  Guaranteed, she will eventually pull them in.  If you fight that, you'll likely get very real threats of divorce (and eventually the real thing).  At first, my wife promised she wouldn't involve the kids.  Until she insisted she did.  

I cannot even speak of the massive amount of damage that has occurred to our kids.  It's beyond criminal, but somehow hidden under the guise of "freedom of religion".  No, my kids have not been physically beat to death (like 8 yr old Josef Smith was by his Remnant parents), but I strongly feel some of the psychological damage done to my kids is worse than if they were ever physically beat.  In every sense of the word, Gwen has mentally 'beat' my kids with the crap she spews in her cult.

While it's not a guarantee, there is a very good chance your wife will eventually divorce you.  My wife constantly told me she would not leave me over Remnant.  Until she did.  At first, it was just literal threats of divorce if we didn't move there.  I wouldn't give in.  But the Remnant related issues grew and eventually I got served the divorce papers.  My wife literally chose Gwen and Remnant over her own husband of many years and was willing to break our children's family up over Remnant.  I have so, so, so many stories I cannot (right now) share here, but I hope they eventually come out. 

Also, my story of a marriage destroyed by Remnant is not unique.  

You know how a whore sleeps with a married person and becomes a home wrecker?  Gwen is worse than that.  She just steals a spouse away while selling grand illusions of a perfect life instead of sleeping with the spouse.  The same results.  I remember constantly thinking I'd much rather have had my wife cheat on me countless times than join Remnant.  I don't say that lightly. The implications of my wife in Remnant were that bad. 

For me (and many others), there was nothing I could do.  I tried literally everything.  She probably won't go to counseling with you (unless it's with Remnant leadership!!).  If she does go with you, the moment the counselor will mention the word cult, she will walk away.

Sorry to paint a bleak picture.  It's not necessarily hopeless, but it eventually was for me.  If yours is anything like mine (and I'm certain there are many similarities), the best advice I can give is surround yourself with a support group (family/friends) and at least get counseling yourself if your wife won't go.  Love your wife.  No matter how hard it is, try to love your wife thru this.  She won't see it (in fact, you'll always be the bad guy for not joining Remnant or not agreeing to move there or for not agreeing with Gwen), but that doesn't mean you stop loving her.

As you know by now, trying to talk her through things gets nowhere.  The arguments are beyond frustrating and seeing her lose all critical thinking and chose Remnant over yourself (and family) are devastating.  So I don't think talking her thru things will help.  For me, it ALWAYS backfired.  The only peace (fake peace) we had was if I didn't say anything at leave the HUGE white elephant in the room go unaddressed.  Again, find support for yourself.  I thought I was 'strong'.  For me, it wasn't enough to handle a spouse in Remnant.

What you will NOT ever get is any kind of Gwen or leadership saying "Go back to your husband.  Find another church if Remnant is causing strain in your marriage."  Nope, don't waste your time waiting for that to ever happen.  Your wife will get the opposite advice.  Gwen and leadership and all your wife's Remnant friends care more about another 'saint' on their membership list than saving a marriage and family.

If you put up no fight, give zero criticism of Gwen and Remnant, than you might save your marriage.  But for me, it was a miserable marriage with Remnant at the forefront.  It hurts to know your wife will listen to another man (a Remnant 'leader') over you.  It hurts to hear your wife say to your face after having a pretty good marriage for many, many years, a house, health, wonderful healthy kids, jobs, a great extended family "If you come with me to Brentwood, then maybe God will bless us." (completely blind to the blessings acquired outside of/before Remnant).  It was so frustrating to see how blind they are, yet won't listen to A THING you say.  

For me, I was convinced my wife being addicted to meth would have been easier to address than getting her to quit Remnant.  It was that bad.  It was that all consuming.  It was that devastating to our family.  My wife thought she was improving her life (and achieving salvation) by devoting her life to Gwen and Remnant's false teachings.  At least someone hooked on meth probably knows they are screwing up their life. 

Again, sorry if I'm painting a hopeless picture.  It's not totally hopeless, but under the best of circumstances, you have a long road ahead.  Prepare for the long road.

 

If you'd like, private message me. 

Whatever you do, do not move there.  Good luck.  God Bless.

I hate the truth of everyone you said. My spouse isn't involved, but many of the same things you described have happened between us and friends/loved ones. The sense of betrayal is real. The sense of failure is real. The sense of abandonment is real. The brainwashing IS REAL. 

[ManyGoats]

5 hours ago, WorseThan1Thinks said:

I lived this and it about destroyed me.  It did eventually destroy us and our family. 

I'm so sorry this happened to you and your family. Thank you for offering your support to mattmartin. 

[Blue]

Maybe I'm being petty... but why did RF celebrate the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) today? Yom Kippur begins at sundown on Tuesday... 

I love how one of their areas of pride is that they are better than other Christian churches because they honor the Holy Days... only they honor them when and how it's convenient for their upper-middle class lifestyles...

[AmazonGrace]

If someone offered Gwen all the money in the world she would have to say thanks but no thanks, because God's love something something. 

She is quite happy this never happened so she can keep all the riches that she has now. 

Spoiler

 

Immortal Love

October 06, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

God is Love and has an altruistic love that is so unfathomable and so deep that we cannot possibly grasp it all. Intimate love was given to a husband and wife to provide insight into the profound love of the Heavens. God uses the allegory of marriage to express this profound love that He has for us.

Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm; for love is as strong as death, its jealousy unyielding as the grave. It burns like blazing fire, like a mighty flame. Many waters cannot quench love; rivers cannot wash it away. If one were to give all the wealth of his house for love, it would be utterly scorned. Song of Solomon 8:6-7

This Love is so strong—many waters cannot quench it nor can rivers wash it away. It is strong—there is no one you have ever known who was able to escape death. The love that God has for us is so strong that it is undeniable, unstoppable, inescapable. Rivers cannot quench it. It is a mighty flame. And if you have that kind of love, someone could offer you all the money in the world and you would say, “I would rather partake of God’s love more than taste the opportunity that all the money in the world would provide.”

 

 

[NarcissismKills]

I am so sick of Gwen and Joe talking about intimate husband and wife love as in the lastest devotional crap. That is one grotesque couple. Am gagging as I type this.

[CTRLZero]

God uses the allegory of marriage to express this profound love that He has for us.

This is really an interesting statement, given that Gwen divorced and quickly remarried.  I guess God's love goes along smoothly for awhile; then he dumps us; then, once we are remarried, God lovingly twirls us.  These are my initial thoughts (before coffee). If this were from Gwod's point of view, I'd probably have to work weight gain in there somewhere.

 

[Marmion]

14 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

God is Love and has an altruistic love that is so unfathomable and so deep that we cannot possibly grasp it all. Intimate love was given to a husband and wife to provide insight into the profound love of the Heavens. God uses the allegory of marriage to express this profound love that He has for us.

Now I have this song coming to my mind .  

 

[Marmion]

8 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

God uses the allegory of marriage to express this profound love that He has for us.

This is really an interesting statement, given that Gwen divorced and quickly remarried.  I guess God's love goes along smoothly for awhile; then he dumps us; then, once we are remarried, God lovingly twirls us.  These are my initial thoughts (before coffee). If this were from Gwod's point of view, I'd probably have to work weight gain in there somewhere.

 

In regards to the doctrine of conditional security  , that is actually not a bad analogy .   In perfectionist  churches , people are concerned that God might spit them out of His mouth , if they fail to measure up to the absolute standard of Christlike righteousness .  Revelation 3 : 16    

 So there was always a constant pressure to give all of ourselves in total  commitment , rather than only just enough .  

 

[AmazonGrace]

If you are not perfect, don't even bother trying, it doesn't count. 

Spoiler

 

The Super Community of Love

October 07, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet, till her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the Lord’s hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. Isaiah 62:1-3

To have this picture of Heaven on Earth, it is going to take everyone choosing to go ALL IN and getting rid of every offensive vice so that God can reside in the heart on Earth as He does in Heaven—so that a light can be left for our children and our children’s children.

We need to surrender everything, throw off the pressures of the secular and allow God to reside in our hearts. Numbers do not matter. Even if it is only a few totally pure people left carrying the Spirit of the Almighty God in their soul, that is more powerful than all the armies in the world put together. I want God on Earth! His Kingdom come, His Will be done. We must concentrate on this one goal, and we must fight for God’s Kingdom; and then we must teach this around the world, for the Church is universal—there is no race, creed, color, continent—it is those who are in love with God.

How do we start? It begins in our own heart. We repent of our sins, and then we love God with abandon, with all we have—heart, soul, mind and strength. Have you fully repented of greed and a selfish agenda? What are you waiting on? Those who have laid down sin, those who are focused on God above, are the ones who can love. What is distracting you? Have you taken time to seek your Heavenly Father and love Him? Then the love of God will spill over for the family of Saints.

 

Not surprised Gwen likes biblical quotes about royal diadems.

[NarcissismKills]

In that latest "devotional" Gwen Shamblin Lara refers to "no race, creed, color, continent" being an obstacle to belonging God's church in her view. Utter rot. If your creed isn't the Remnant Fellowship cult, you are absolutely nothing to her.

[WeirdHarold]

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The Super Community of Love

October 07, 2019

by Gwen Shamblin Lara

0 Comment

For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet, till her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch. The nations will see your righteousness, and all kings your glory; you will be called by a new name that the mouth of the Lord will bestow. You will be a crown of splendor in the Lord’s hand, a royal diadem in the hand of your God. Isaiah 62:1-3

To have this picture of Heaven on Earth, it is going to take everyone choosing to go ALL IN and getting rid of every offensive vice so that God can reside in the heart on Earth as He does in Heaven—so that a light can be left for our children and our children’s children.

We need to surrender everything, throw off the pressures of the secular and allow God to reside in our hearts. Numbers do not matter. Even if it is only a few totally pure people left carrying the Spirit of the Almighty God in their soul, that is more powerful than all the armies in the world put together. I want God on Earth! His Kingdom come, His Will be done. We must concentrate on this one goal, and we must fight for God’s Kingdom; and then we must teach this around the world, for the Church is universal—there is no race, creed, color, continent—it is those who are in love with God.

How do we start? It begins in our own heart. We repent of our sins, and then we love God with abandon, with all we have—heart, soul, mind and strength. Have you fully repented of greed and a selfish agenda? What are you waiting on? Those who have laid down sin, those who are focused on God above, are the ones who can love. What is distracting you? Have you taken time to seek your Heavenly Father and love Him? Then the love of God will spill over for the family of Saints.

 

 

So I guess Remnant Fellowship is amillennial then.  She totally spiritualized Isaiah 62.

[CTRLZero]

Even if it is only a few totally pure people left carrying the Spirit of the Almighty God in their soul, that is more powerful than all the armies in the world put together.

"The Few, The Proud, The Totally Pure Remnant Fellowship..."  Sorry Gwen, this somehow doesn't have the same ring to it. 

I suspect Gwen's definition of offensive vices may differ slightly from my own.  And color may not be an obstacle, except for not being coordinated with the theme of the day at a Remnant church service, right?  These people... 

Such a snark-worthy scammer.

 

[ManyGoats]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

We need to surrender everything, throw off the pressures of the secular

I wonder what pressures of the secular she imagines she has thrown off. She lives in a big fancy house, with fancy clothes, fancy furniture, and drives fancy cars. She travels extensively and lives a lavish lifestyle. I wonder what she thinks she's surrendered. I'm not being snarky this time. Really, what secular things has she given up?

 

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

I want God on Earth! His Kingdom come, His Will be done.

What if He asked her to sell all she has and give to the poor?

[AmazonGrace]

9 minutes ago, ManyGoats said:

Really, what secular things has she given up?

David?

[Marmion]

3 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

The Few, The Proud, The TotaIly Pure Remnant Fellowship..."  Sorry Gwen, this somehow doesn't have the same ring to it. 

Now you've elicited these songs from my mind .  

 

I somewhat suspect that I might be responding to trigger words , left over from my church ( cult ? ) going days .  https://freedomofmind.com/use-of-words-loaded-language-and-thought-control-of-believers/  Such groups will load the language , with such clichés for the very purpose of inducing a programmed response from the subjects .  https://libertyforcaptives.com/2012/08/30/identifying-religious-brainwashing-loading-the-language-part-6-of-8/   So while you all , who are not from the background of Remnant Fellowship , or in my case the Holiness movement  , will react to such rhetoric by thinking that it's outlandish , and mind boggling , it will make familiar sense to the likes of me , whom have been conditioned by routine indoctrination , including the use of accompanying songs . So as much as I may disagree with what all Gwen Shamblin Lara is teaching , it still is not at all different from what I had heard week after week at such denominations as most predominantly the Church of the Nazarene  , especially during the time of revival services .   

 

3 hours ago, WeirdHarold said:

So I guess Remnant Fellowship is amillennial then.  She totally spiritualized Isaiah 62.

It could alternately mean that she is a postmillenialist  , who believes that it's up to the likes of her to help usher in the Messianic Age , by sanctifying the social order .   She might , in a sense , even be in agreement with Reform Judaism in this regard .  https://reformjudaism.org/practice/ask-rabbi/do-reform-jews-believe-messiah   ,  https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/the-messianic-concept-in-reform-judaism/  

Edited October 7, 2019 by Marmion

[ManyGoats]

Watch starting from 9:20 to around 11:30 for tips from Gwen (and a few from Joe) about how to drink wine. ? Naturally, "little sips" are part of the routine.

Sheesh, for someone who does so much public speaking, she sure isn't very good at it.

[RFSurvivor_2]

7 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

David?

Oooooof!

Edited October 7, 2019 by RFSurvivor_2

[Giraffe]

I imagine Gwen Shamblin Lara telling Joe: “Let’s twirl! If we twirl, people will ignore how awful my hair looks and will totally start believing we have chemistry! Let’s drink wine, too, because that will help us believe we’re in love, too!”

[AmazonGrace]

Be kind. Because Super Community. 

Spoiler

If you're helping someone right now you need to STOP what you're doing and THINK... (Seriously, you're SURE you want to help....??)

[NarcissismKills]

13 hours ago, Giraffe said:

I imagine Gwen Shamblin Lara telling Joe: “Let’s twirl! If we twirl, people will ignore how awful my hair looks and will totally start believing we have chemistry! Let’s drink wine, too, because that will help us believe we’re in love, too!”

A relative of mine suffering from severe anorexia (98 lbs) loves to have her husband pick her up and twirl her in front of of other people. He's anorexic, too. It's a way of showing off.

[Blue]

4 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Be kind. Because Super Community. 

  Hide contents

If you're helping someone right now you need to STOP what you're doing and THINK... (Seriously, you're SURE you want to help....??)

I feel like the Ten Commandments was actually an odd example to use. I mean.. yes, technically if you're not stealing and murdering people you're contributing to a great community... but I think Matt 22:37-39 (love God, love people) would have made so much more sense in the context of what she's talking about. Does anyone look over these for her? Or are those people just so in reverence of her that they could never suggest a change?

[NarcissismKills]

Gwen Shamblin seems to avoid using quotes from Jesus, which makes sense as she does not think he is divine. That's my suggestion as to why she used the 10 commandments instead of Jesus's words in Matthew 22 : 37-39. The Remnant Fellowship cult is more of an unenlightened Old Testament crowd rather than a Christian group.

[Blue]

4 hours ago, NarcissismKills said:

Gwen Shamblin seems to avoid using quotes from Jesus, which makes sense as she does not think he is divine. That's my suggestion as to why she used the 10 commandments instead of Jesus's words in Matthew 22 : 37-39. The Remnant Fellowship cult is more of an unenlightened Old Testament crowd rather than a Christian group.

That's a very good point!