Michelle 2: Mom of 13 & YouTuber Accused of Neglect on Dr. Phil

[Ozlsn]

10 hours ago, kesmom said:

cosleeping is recommenced for babies with her heart issues. I’d love to see a source for that and I highly doubt it includes fluffy blankets! 

4 hours ago, JustEnough said:

And if you don't want to raise one you should give birth anyway because there are waitlists a mile long of people wanting to adopt only a baby who has a DS diagnosis.

I have never wanted to ask for citations more.

12 hours ago, precious blessing said:

She claims to be a midwife since she had her third baby. WTAF. She "learned real quick." First she was a midwife for herself, then she started taking on clients... she's been doing it for 23 years, but now she only really assists with her grandchildrens' births. Yikes.

I take it Nevada doesn't really have restrictions on who can call themselves a midwife then? 

12 hours ago, precious blessing said:

She's also *super sure* of how old Millie is today 

I have to ask... 11, 12 or 13 days?  Or is my range too small?

[kesmom]

Watching a bit of last night’s video. Millie was two weeks old on Friday, so in Sunday she was 2 weeks and 3 days. ?

She mentioned a comment from someone who came from a family of 13 children and the youngest also had DS. Michelle thinks that this family and hers were given babies with DS as a gift from God as a way to say thank you for having so many children. 

[KnittingOwl]

Yellow babies make me worried. That’s usually a sign of jaundice. Coupled with the sleeping really soundly and not pooping, I would be super concerned about Millie. 

[Hane]

My baby was slightly jaundiced, so my doc had me put her bassinet near a sunny window, and she was fine by her 2-week checkup. Michelle doesn’t even seem to be taking this simple little step with Millie.

Aside from the terrifying way Michelle is ignoring her baby’s heart and digestive issues, something else has me really worried: Babies and children with DS need more sensory and intellectual stimulation than others do. Any reasonable parent would be working hard to find early intervention programs and exercises to do with the baby at home. (Hell, my baby had no health or developmental issues, but I still found a book of cute little games to play with a baby that we had fun with during playtime every day.)

[ViolaSebastian]

I just can't with the sleeping on the mattress face down surrounded by blankets--it scares the crap out of me. It would with an entirely healthy baby as well. I've had a personal experience with babies and blankets (keeping it vague for confidentiality sake) and it was a bad outcome. We don't know how attentive Michelle is when Millie is sleeping--and it only takes a moment. Gosh, I can't express how nervous it makes me. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I just can't with the sleeping on the mattress face down surrounded by blankets--it scares the crap out of me. It would with an entirely healthy baby as well. I've had a personal experience with babies and blankets (keeping it vague for confidentiality sake) and it was a bad outcome. We don't know how attentive Michelle is when Millie is sleeping--and it only takes a moment. Gosh, I can't express how nervous it makes me. 

Babies with DS tend to have lower muscle tone than babies without DS. It’s an even bigger no no for Michelle to do this because her neck muscles are not developed enough for her to move her head if she needs more air. 

[Four is Enough]

On 3/8/2019 at 4:41 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

When I was a Christian, I was convinced god didn’t care about the tiny shit that so many fundies seem to agonize over. Because it MAKES NO SENSE that god would care about hot tea, exposed knees, and getting felt up by your boyfriend. 

I beg to differ, LOL.... George Carlin says it best. Go to about 1:10

 

 

[kmachete14]

@JermajestyDuggar and the next step in the "when I used to be Christian" thought process is wait, why would he have a plan just for ME? Why would he bless ME? Why would all those people be suffering horrible shit but I expect mediocre ME to have a tiny prayer answered and theirs ignored? And then you just keep thinking those thoughts until you end up an ex-Christian lmao 

[smittykins]

13 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I beg to differ, LOL.... George Carlin says it best. Go to about 1:10

 

 

I love Father Rivera!  “Tres Ave Marias!”

[J.O.Y.nomore]

On 3/11/2019 at 1:03 PM, kesmom said:

Michelle thinks that this family and hers were given babies with DS as a gift from God as a way to say thank you for having so many children. 

Oh Michelle... it couldn't be age related, hm? Mothers and fathers who have that many children are most likely older and DS risk increases with parental age. Occams razor dear.

This is such a messed up thought! Maybe God does like people having kids, but how could a loving god harm a child? I don't think they would.

TBH, if I had to have a child with a disability that impacted cognitive abilities, I'd "want" them to have DS because they are my favorite population to work with in the special ed field. It is true they tend to be extremely affable and affectionate.

Also, I have no problem with the belief that children with disabilities have the same value as children without disabilities. I believe that. However, I wouldn't wish a disability on any child, despite my previous thought experiment. She seems to lean this way, saying kids with DS are "more perfect" than other children and fun.

I appreciate that she is accepting the possibility Millie may have delays. It is a nice contrast to her general denial...But, it worries me that she says it is ok because then Millie will be adorable and infantile longer. I fear she'll infantalize Millie and perpetuate delays that keep Millie child-like and dependent. Her comment about the mom who "made a new family" after her other kids grew up also gave me that thought.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Sorry Michelle but odds were quite good that Millie would have DS compared to the children you had in your 20s and 30s:

https://www.marchofdimes.org/complications/down-syndrome.aspx

[Gobsmacked]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Sorry Michelle but odds were quite good that Millie would have DS compared to the children you had in your 20s and 30s:

https://www.marchofdimes.org/complications/down-syndrome.aspx

Do Zsu Zsu Andersons Speshul Ovaries with their bestest eggs know about this?!!

[luv2laugh]

[Four is Enough]

Completely off  topic about this woman's child, but I have a friend whose daughter (now in her 40s) has Down Syndrome. I love this girl to death, but what causes her problems is not her Down, but her absolute perfectionism.

She tried to work at a hotel in housekeeping. They trained her and she       got all the steps down, but she could not turn a room over in the amount of time because this gal takes NO shortcuts. You want that floor vaccumed; she's going to do the entire floor! Hospital corners? You got it! But it takes her longer! MUCH longer! Trash bag not just jammed into a trash can, it's smoothed out and edges the rim!

Her next try was a sandwich shop. Again, the sandwiches were perfect, but took way too long. Even washing dishes was difficult because she wanted them to go into the dishwasher  (sparkling) clean.

She does have a job, but it was a while before she found one she could do without being frustrated.

My friend's daughter is also my friend. She is smart, funny, goofy, and she has taught me so much over the years. I am so grateful for her, her sister, and her mother.

[ViolaSebastian]

20 hours ago, J.O.Y.nomore said:

Oh Michelle... it couldn't be age related, hm? Mothers and fathers who have that many children are most likely older and DS risk increases with parental age. Occams razor dear.

This is such a messed up thought! Maybe God does like people having kids, but how could a loving god harm a child? I don't think they would.

TBH, if I had to have a child with a disability that impacted cognitive abilities, I'd "want" them to have DS because they are my favorite population to work with in the special ed field. It is true they tend to be extremely affable and affectionate.

Also, I have no problem with the belief that children with disabilities have the same value as children without disabilities. I believe that. However, I wouldn't wish a disability on any child, despite my previous thought experiment. She seems to lean this way, saying kids with DS are "more perfect" than other children and fun.

I appreciate that she is accepting the possibility Millie may have delays. It is a nice contrast to her general denial...But, it worries me that she says it is ok because then Millie will be adorable and infantile longer. I fear she'll infantalize Millie and perpetuate delays that keep Millie child-like and dependent. Her comment about the mom who "made a new family" after her other kids grew up also gave me that thought.

I think it's easy at this point for Michelle to look at Millie's differences as something entirely positive. It is very early on, and while Millie has already had health challenges, the amount of care that she's receiving is comparable to a typical newborn, for the most part. I'm of the belief that all life has value and worth, regardless of differences, but I also think it's foolish to pretend that Millie won't have significant challenges and that Michelle and Rod (because I'm including Rod as a responsible party in all this mess) won't have to make lifestyle changes to accommodate caring for someone with developmental, cognitive, and perhaps significant physical disabilities. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future--will one of the siblings step in to care for Millie? And how will that play out if they choose not to? 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I think it's easy at this point for Michelle to look at Millie's differences as something entirely positive. It is very early on, and while Millie has already had health challenges, the amount of care that she's receiving is comparable to a typical newborn, for the most part. I'm of the belief that all life has value and worth, regardless of differences, but I also think it's foolish to pretend that Millie won't have significant challenges and that Michelle and Rod (because I'm including Rod as a responsible party in all this mess) won't have to make lifestyle changes to accommodate caring for someone with developmental, cognitive, and perhaps significant physical disabilities. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future--will one of the siblings step in to care for Millie? And how will that play out if they choose not to? 

The thing is, Michelle seems to want to kick all her kids out the door the minute they turn 18 and graduate. Guess what Michelle! It’s possible Millie will need to live with them for the rest of their lives. I doubt she will be happy about that when everyone else is out of the house. I can imagine her putting Millie in assisted living or a group home when she’s older so she can be done with homeschooling and active parenting. She seems to easily wash her hands of her older kids. 

[Granwych]

43 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The thing is, Michelle seems to want to kick all her kids out the door the minute they turn 18 and graduate. Guess what Michelle! It’s possible Millie will need to live with them for the rest of their lives. I doubt she will be happy about that when everyone else is out of the house. I can imagine her putting Millie in assisted living or a group home when she’s older so she can be done with homeschooling and active parenting. She seems to easily wash her hands of her older kids. 

She just might go all Duggar-mom on Millie.  Last kid, (hopefully,) tired mom, etc.  Do we know if Michelle's older kids do the sister-mom bit? 

 

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future--will one of the siblings step in to care for Millie? And how will that play out if they choose not to? 

It'll also be interesting to see how Millie does as she grows up and develops her own personality. It sounds like Michelle might be expecting the stereotypical smiley happy easygoing child with Down Syndrome. There's no guarantee Millie will be like that. She's a whole person, a real person, not a caricature.

There was a girl with Down Syndrome who went to my school in Junior High, and she was mostly a jerk. I can't blame her, really, I know her dad and he makes me pissy too. Plus she had to deal with some bullying, and was sometimes mean to stand up for herself. But she definitely wasn't the 100% perfect sweet happy child some people think of when they think of Down Syndrome. Sometimes she was nice, sometimes she was mean, sometimes she was angry, sometimes she was happy. Just like anyone else, no matter their ability.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

It'll also be interesting to see how Millie does as she grows up and develops her own personality. It sounds like Michelle might be expecting the stereotypical smiley happy easygoing child with Down Syndrome. There's no guarantee Millie will be like that. She's a whole person, a real person, not a caricature.

There was a girl with Down Syndrome who went to my school in Junior High, and she was mostly a jerk. I can't blame her, really, I know her dad and he makes me pissy too. Plus she had to deal with some bullying, and was sometimes mean to stand up for herself. But she definitely wasn't the 100% perfect sweet happy child some people think of when they think of Down Syndrome. Sometimes she was nice, sometimes she was mean, sometimes she was angry, sometimes she was happy. Just like anyone else, no matter their ability.

I babysat for a 6 year old girl with DS and her mom let me know she could be quite stubborn. And she told me that was a pretty normal trait for children with DS. And now that I have a 6 year old, I know that it’s pretty normal for children without DS

[Granwych]

2 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I babysat for a 6 year old girl with DS and her mom let me know she could be quite stubborn. And she told me that was a pretty normal trait for children with DS. And now that I have a 6 year old, I know that it’s pretty normal for children without DS

And the kid doesn't necessarily have to be 6, lol.

[meowfundiecatz]

On 3/11/2019 at 11:03 AM, kesmom said:

She mentioned a comment from someone who came from a family of 13 children and the youngest also had DS. Michelle thinks that this family and hers were given babies with DS as a gift from God as a way to say thank you for having so many children. 

Yes, this is a belief in the LDS church, not necessarily the last child with DS but any child with DS or any other disability. It's believed that these children are eternally pure. Bishops can make a call on say a high functioning autistic person to see if they need to be baptized. But for the most part, the Church believes all disabled people are special spirits who chose to take on a very special and difficult mission in the pre-mortal life, to come to Earth and gain a body with a disability. The belief is that they will go directing to the Celestial Kingdom, so it's a gift because this child will be with them no matter what as long as both mom and dad (which in this case, dad is would not be considered) keep all their covenants (including all the covenants they made in the temple and that they are sealed) and endure to the end.

I've heard some LDS person say that her goal as a mother is "no empty place at the table" in the Celestial Kingdom, meaning all of her children stay LDS, are married in the temple, keep all their covenants, and make it so they all can be together forever.

[Beermeet]

On 3/10/2019 at 1:30 PM, Ozlsn said:

You know when she said she was supplementing in the last live video  I swear she only mentioned her daughter's excess breast milk. None of that is recommended for any newborn, let alond one with potential GI issues. FFS Michelle, get some newborn formula and add in the extra calories with that via your bottle/SNS. Sheesh.

She definitely should not be giving that newborn freaking heavy whipping cream!  Wtaf. It shows her lack of knowledge.  She's probably thinking it's milk like and fattening. Um, yes it is but NO!   If she's having trouble with breastmilk supply ( is she?) than she could supplement with her daughters excessive breast milk. It's a thing lady! If that's not doable, formula dumbass. Geez.  Almond milk??!!!  Double wtaf!

[Dreadcrumbs]

5 hours ago, Alisamer said:

It'll also be interesting to see how Millie does as she grows up and develops her own personality. It sounds like Michelle might be expecting the stereotypical smiley happy easygoing child with Down Syndrome. There's no guarantee Millie will be like that. She's a whole person, a real person, not a caricature.

There was a girl with Down Syndrome who went to my school in Junior High, and she was mostly a jerk. I can't blame her, really, I know her dad and he makes me pissy too. Plus she had to deal with some bullying, and was sometimes mean to stand up for herself. But she definitely wasn't the 100% perfect sweet happy child some people think of when they think of Down Syndrome. Sometimes she was nice, sometimes she was mean, sometimes she was angry, sometimes she was happy. Just like anyone else, no matter their ability.

I think this is what Michelle likely expects, too. A lot of people expect this with I/DD and it's actually a pretty harmful stereotype. When you fail to live up to this expectation, you suffer for it.

[J.O.Y.nomore]

20 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future--will one of the siblings step in to care for Millie? And how will that play out if they choose not to? 

Yes it will be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if one of the siblings stepped up. The older ones showed more compassion to the younger kids when they talked about feeling suicidal and lonely. Of course, it is not their responsibility. We'll see.

[ViolaSebastian]

I watched yesterday's live, and holy crap was it a shitshow. Let's all get a beverage of our choice in a pretty mug or teacup and get right to it, shall we?

1. She starts off with a pretty tone-deaf joke. Someone in the chat mentions that she's been watching April the Giraffe on the news, and Michelle asks "is she a down syndrome giraffe?" Record scratch. Girl, what?

2. The kids are waiting on taking a bath until she gets off Youtube.

3. Michelle gives me a heart attack by turning Millie on her stomach as she sleeps. Lord.

4. She can't figure out why her teeth are bad. They keep chipping. Gee, what a mystery.

5. Michelle thinks it's cute that the chubbier Millie gets, "the more Down Syndrome she looks."

6. Ron chews tobacco. The roots of his teeth are apparently showing. I know you're all comforted to know the sole provider of a household with eight minor children is a tobacco user.

7. She talks about two of her boys who smoked pot. Apparently one has stopped because he wants to get a job. Now she says the kid's name, it's River. They tried a lot of things to get River to stop smoking pot, such as taking away his phone and grounding him. They also went to a "reset" class in Utah that taught parents and teens how to communicate, but that didn't do any good. The only thing that worked, she said, was not giving him money (shocker!) and not allowing him to have his phone. Notably absent is any sort of mental health testing or actual counseling. She says that all her other kids just breezed through the teen years and were great, but this one "snuck in in the middle." Michelle says that the 14-year-old is smoking pot too, and that River is 22 and "paying for it" because he's living at home with "no option to go anywhere."

8. Michelle's mother married four times and she had children with three of the four husbands. There were a lot of step-children, and she makes it sound like there were issues. She calls her biological father her "sperm donor."

9. Back to River. She says that she should have "literally" lost River. She said that she and her husband were beside themselves because they didn't know what to do. She said that he told them that he "just wanted his mom to give him a hug," so they pushed aside their feelings and just loved on him. Apparently, he thought about taking his life but he just couldn't do it because of "the family." "He just relied on us too much and he needed us." Drugs mess with your head, and that's what it did to her kid. Luckily Michelle is a praying woman and she prayed a lot. Also, she sang Les Miz to God and that helped, too. Now River gives her a hug before she leaves and after she comes home. River once had a huge party while Michelle was gone and was "tripping" really badly. Rod gave him an IV and he "sucked down two IV bags in five minutes," he was "on the verge of death." River thought someone was going to kill him (this sounds stronger than pot...) and hid in Rod and Michelle's bedroom. He destroyed her closet hiding in there. Michelle says it's good that he felt protected in the master bedroom, and that's because there's a "shield of protection" around her master bedroom because there's a married couple who lives in there. When second son started in on drugs, they pulled him out of school, sent him to Utah, and now they're homeschooling him and it's better. She says that they made fun of River all the time "because he was such an idiot." 

10. Michelle tries not to enabled River. She says that she doesn't clean up after him and makes him do his own laundry. He pays for his own truck and extras, and he's "as much of an adult as he can be living in this household." She's thought about throwing him out, but says she just can't do that because he'd be in a worse mess. This makes it sound like the problems she said that River had overcome were still current issues, but okay, lady, whatever you say.