Michelle 2: Mom of 13 & YouTuber Accused of Neglect on Dr. Phil

[Ozlsn]

I watched the live video. If she didn't stop to say hello to everyone it'd be a lot shorter, just saying. Anyway, notes I took (part 1):

- she's drinking "mothers milk" and some other tea together so she doesn't have to force down two cups. Not sure that is going to make anything more palatable.

- she doesn't know how to not go overboard on collecting English tea sets. Or other things presumably.

- she's never managed to stick at crochet or tatting because she's too high energy. I'd have thought just being time poor would do it, what with the 13 kids.

- 5 minutes in and she finally gets to introducing herself, more feelgood* Down Syndrome hashtags, whatever.

- she needs routines otherwise she'd be a hot mess. Hm.

- She's going over to show us Millie again, who is sleeping on her tummy again on the adult bed surrounded by bedding. Millie looks very red to me, apparently she's been lying on that side of her face and that's why it's red. Michelle runs her hand over Millie's face and I don't know if it's the yellowish light or what but the flush goes to a weird light yellow and back as her hand passes. Is that normal? It looked odd to me.

- Back to Michelle and her housework routine that keeps her centred and focused, whatever.

- Back to Millie, which is basically what we want updates on. Cut to the chase Michelle, we're nearly 10 minutes in here. She finally made the appointments, the endocrinologist had a 6 month wait but they got lucky with a cancellation that day. Millie is "10 or 11 days old, she can't remember" - the hell? She was 12 days old in your last video - and hasn't had any medical "poking" to date. Uh Michelle? That's not necessarily a good thing. The Endo said she's good, 50th percentile on growth charts and now 7lbs so she's put on some weight!

- Millie also did a massive runny poo that morning which was apparently all bilirubin, so excited! She didn't put it on Instagram but she did send it to close family and friends.

- Endo wants blood tests but she's holding off on those because Millie's going to need so many so she'll get all the blood tests done at once. Which would be fine if she has all the other appointnents set up in the next week or so, but if she's likely to be waiting months is kind of stupid. There's a limit to what the Endo can do with growth charts, sheesh.

- distracted by trolls. Gets Jo to moderate. Keeps answering messages. Do all lives do this? No wonder I don't watch, it's distracting as hell.

- Gets to the bit about her son's two year mission in Korea. Apparently it didn't help his diet??

- Starts showing gifts a lady from church made and gave her for Millie. Well done church lady, they are beautiful. 

-18 minutes and we're back on her routines. Part two to come, I need a coffee.

*I say feelgood because they just feel really insincere coming from her. Like she's found things to say that she knows will make other people say how wonderful she is embracing her child and her disability while they fail to notice her not getting actual medical attention for the additional needs created via that disability. It just grated on me a bit.

[Briefly]

1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

I am surprised to hear that former alcoholics have/are converting to Mormonism because of their anti-alcohol stance? Why wouldn't they become Baptists as well? Baptists, the strict ones, don't drink alcohol. 

I went to a Baptist wedding. The bride was from Bob Jones University. There was no alcohol and no dancing. The reception was VERY QUICK. Side note: The bride and groom are no longer baptists and they attend a more accepting church but I can't remember what kind.

Yeah, the Baptist line is that alcohol is a sin and drinking it is a sin, and that the Bible is 100% perfect and 100% right, no mistakes because it is the word of God.  But then the next thing they say is that the Bible really means sour grape juice when it says that Jesus made wine for the wedding.  I have heard all that from quite a few Baptists.  And I have known quite a few Baptists who are alcoholics, active ones.  And some of them are the so called strict Baptists.

1 hour ago, Lisafer said:

I'm actually pretty sure that coffee IS the beverage of the gods. Joseph Smith just misunderstood Moroni. 

Oh yes, coffee is the beverage of the gods!

@luv2laugh, I generally try to be polite to whatever missionaries come to my door.  But the Mormons are the ones I have had bad experiences with.  I'm not rude to start, I like to give everyone a chance.  But when a young male Mormon missionary told me that what he had to say was so much more important that the life-saving asthma treatment I w.as giving my daughter when they came to the door, and that I HAD to listen to him and she HAD to wait?  Well, that's when I quit being nice.  

[thoughtful]

Just popping in to say that, whenever I see the title of this thread, it makes me think that someone is angry at a potato:

Spoiler

 

[Lisafer]

@Brieflythat missionary was a dick. I hope you gave him a colorful suggestion on where to stick his literature.

[Briefly]

9 minutes ago, Lisafer said:

@Brieflythat missionary was a dick. I hope you gave him a colorful suggestion on where to stick his literature.

Yep, and I also told them to get off my property before I called the cops!  I guess he must have reported me to his elders or something, because the Mormons quit coming to my door after that.

[Beermeet]

7 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

The rumor out there is that the LDS church loosened the reins on caffeine because they amassed stock in the Coca Cola company. 

I grew up with quite a few Mormon kids and it's always been a fascination of mine. (Maybe where the roots of my interest in weird Christianity started? Who knows). In any case, I took a class a few years ago on Latin America and one of the things we discussed was the rise in the popularity of evangelical Christianity and Mormonism within indigenous populations, as well as generally. One of the things that was brought up was that Mormonism, with its strict prohibition against alcohol, can be really appealing to people who have experienced hardship because of alcohol abuse, either their own or a family member. 

I was so thinking it has to do with money somehow.  There it is!

Mormonism is totally what sent me down the fundie obsession!  It started there, 20+ years ago. First when I worked for one, than in a group of friends, this guy was an ex. His whole family bailed. He started telling me about how they still get harrassed and gave me a book written by an ex-mormon. I was hooked! I forget the name of the book.

[Ozlsn]

Live vid impressions, part 2:

Spoiler

- when you first have a vaby you get so busy with medical appointments, clutter builds etc. She shows her clutter. And her Jesus with children statue. And her husband's dirty laundry on the floor. And her waste basket (!!), her Mona Lisa bedside table picture (?!), Millie's growth charts/referrals get a brief pan over, then we're into the en suite. Which so much clutter, pumping supplies etc. But she wiped it down so she's getting there.

- shows us her closet with the new clothes she bought on her shopping trip yesterday. Uh yeah, tell me again about how having a newborn makes you so busy again? The only clothing I managed to buy in the first 6 weeks of my child's life was a maternity bra and a very loose shirt. 

-now has her pile of clothes to be donated sitting on camera. Sizes 12-14, don't fit now. Can't work out if she's humblebragging or not (eyeroll)

- has housekeeper in for 2 hours once a week which helps with the cleaning. Yeah I could see that might be useful.

- Still has errand day, free day, date night but not having family day because they've been having it for two weeks while she's been busy with Millie. School's back on Monday though!

- she still has to pay bills and meal plan but Rod does all the dinners, she just tells him what they need. She's paying her daughter $2/time to clean out the car.

- suggests Marie Kondo for books/clothes decluttering, now she has a simple wardrobe. Lady you just showed us your wardrobe, it ain't that decluttered.

- Clutterbug for rest, decide which type of hoarder you are and then follow the tips. There are four types of insect. She can't remember them all.

- 26 mins in: "She's not even two weeks old, boy do I demand a lot of myself, right!" So send the kids to actual school ffs.

- Now answering decluttering Qs. "I pray for people who need me as much as I need them so we can help each other, inspire each other, support each other." Wow, that was a bit unintentionally revealing. You have 13 children, how many people needing you do you want?

- someone's asking for tips on homeschooling a 2nd grader while breastfeeding a newborn. She meanders around for a bit then says she basically plants her butt on the couch and doesn't move till they're done with school about 2 hours later. She calls them over one or two at a time and gives them about 30 minutes whike she nurses, then they work independently. Hang on... wouldn't that take more than 2 hours? What are the ones that are too young doing?

- She mentions meal plans again - she will reveal more in a later video. Yay?

-someone asks a question and is also from NZ. She gets excited about NZ and doesn't answer the question.

- megadoses of vitamin C (5000mg) cure everything. Or give you expensive urine, which seems more likely.

-30 minute mark! She's feeling good but her house is kind of a mess, mom stuff, breast pump clutter.

- tomorrow she's getting a supplemental nursing system so Millie can burn less calories while still nursing. Um... this sounds concerning - she shouldn't be burning more calories than she's taking in while feeding. That to me sounds like the working to breathe thing again - it's a thing in NICUs where babies have chronic lung disease from being premature, and so they tube feed to reduce the number of calories being expended while feeding until the baby outpaces the lubg inflammation and it's not as critical. They also supplement calories in feeds to help them bulk up.

- she's been bottlefeeding Millie but she wants to nurse. Down Syndrome babies don't have a window of time for how long they can nurse (um.. do other babies?), they come home from the hospital and reject the bottle and only want to nurse with Mom. Well some do...

- they have been adding calories to Millie's milk, oh good.

- She's only getting an oz or so and Millie needs more so supplementing with daughter's excess milk. Supplemental nursing system will make it easier to nurse. Millie's getting at least an extra 2oz from daughter's milk.

- more medical advice without a license, this time on migraines.

- Someone asks for tips for homeschooling boys (I think) - she has 10 tips for raising boys and 10 tips for raising girls on her phone, will show in a later live. How different are these tips likely to be, seriously her?

- and we're into gendered outdoor pursuits because boys love being grubby and active stuff. Monthly passes also good for attractions. 

- She makes an inadvertently rude gesture  (well it is if you're Greek/Italian and possibly other Mediterranean cultures) and I crack up laughing. She's trying to describe Tinker toys... I have no idea why she thinks this gesture is going to help describe them.

- Mg flakes have cured her depression. O RLY?

- back to clutter. Again. Clear containers bug her but they're in another room now so she can close the door.

- Jo is ban-hammering away, go Jo!

- "I do cover a lot of topics because time is so short!" 40 minute mark.

- tea again. She's nearly finished.

- Peek at Millie, who hasn't moved. The top of her head is still reddish and still doesn't look normal to me. Millie shifts her face to be more face down.

- "are you going to turn your head or roll over so we can see your face?" How many babies have you had again?!

- Michelle rolls Millie  face up and she semi-stirs. She is gorgeous. Face is still weirdly yellow, not red despite her being face down for the last about 30 mins. Hm.

- Apparently decluttering will help you love yourself more.  OK.

- 44 minutes plus and she's wrapping it up. Millie hasn't made a sound the entire time. What the hell the other kids and Rod were doing God knows. 

Well I'm glad they have seen at least one medical specialist, but the skin colours still concern me.

[ViolaSebastian]

I do not understand. This woman has been decluttering for at least a year. It's not like they have a mansion filled with crap, she should be running out of clutter at some point, JFC. If she's continuing to have issues with clutter after a year of decluttering, maybe the actual problem is buying tons of crap and bringing into the house.

[smittykins]

I have yet to have a Mormon missionary come to my door, which is weird because I live in the area where the LDS church was founded.

(And now, I’ve probably just jinxed myself. 

[SisNancy]

Ok I’m just caught up.   Let’s see if I can

Millie’s heart condition an AVSD is the most likely or an ASDand VSD (if she has two holes) likely won’t cause her too much trouble.   I assume AVSD because the timeline the doc wants it repaired.  That is typically done at 6-9 months.  Usually you see progressive lack of steady weight gain as this defect causes issues.  Sometimes kids need feeding tubes to help and high calorie formula to get them big enough for surgery.  Oxygen isn’t often used this isn’t a “blue” heart defect.   Same for the ASD and VSD and those are repaired between 4-5 years old or sooner depending on age. 

Blue/purple hands and feet can be normal in babies up to a month old it’s called acrocyanosis it’s an immaturity of the nervous system.  Lips is a do not pass go, go to ER in addition with her sleeping more and having other issues Is scary.   Hopefully some provider will catch on and admit that kid to the hospital for care.   

 

[SisNancy]

1 hour ago, SisNancy said:

Ok I’m just caught up.   Let’s see if I can

Millie’s heart condition an AVSD is the most likely or an ASDand VSD (if she has two holes) likely won’t cause her too much trouble.   I assume AVSD because the timeline the doc wants it repaired.  That is typically done at 6-9 months.  Usually you see progressive lack of steady weight gain as this defect causes issues.  Sometimes kids need feeding tubes to help and high calorie formula to get them big enough for surgery.  Oxygen isn’t often used this isn’t a “blue” heart defect.   Same for the ASD and VSD and those are repaired between 4-5 years old or sooner depending on age.   

Blue/purple hands and feet can be normal in babies up to a month old it’s called acrocyanosis it’s an immaturity of the nervous system.  Lips is a do not pass go, go to ER in addition with her sleeping more and having other issues Is scary.   Hopefully some provider will catch on and admit that kid to the hospital for care.   

 

Quoting myself because I had errors and couldn’t edit.  It should say docs fix ASD/VSD based on size not age.  An AVSD would be much more complicated if it involved valves etc but she hasn’t mentioned that but I would expect she would gloss it over.  It’s sad she hinders the doctors from provider care all while screeching on the internet about how doctors are doing such a bad job at giving this baby care.   Amazing how she knows it all while admitting she didn’t know what she was getting into.  

[zee_four]

On 3/7/2019 at 9:40 PM, Hashtag Blessed said:

I know this is the least of her issues but I thought Mormons aren’t supposed to drink hot drinks other than hot chocolate? 

That’s definitely a rule according to this:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Word_of_Wisdom/Hot_drinks

 Maybe some mormons believe herbal tea doesn’t count as tea? But I’ve definitely heard from some that it does count. I guess Michelle must fall in the former category.

This is such a minor non-issue in comparison to her child neglect, of course. I was just surprised to see her drinking teas. 

Oh also, not a single video has been under 30 minutes. She was so full of shit to claim she only spends 15 minutes a day on them. My big question is: Does she know she was full of shit? Or does she just grossly underestimate the amount of time she spends on them? 

It's caffeine that's not allowef, herbal tea is okay because its not tea. Same with any other hot or cold beverage.

[Granwych]

17 hours ago, Lisafer said:

I'm actually pretty sure that coffee IS the beverage of the gods. Joseph Smith just misunderstood Moroni. 

Maybe he got the angel's name wrong and it really was "Moron"

[smittykins]

I’ve always wanted to ask “How come your angel got gold tablets when Moses had to settle for stone ones?”

[ViolaSebastian]

I didn't realize until recently that a lot of Mormon rituals are ripped off from Free Masonry. It's also interesting, at least here, to see how Mormonism is treated as "heresy" by other evangelical denominations. Some people feel really strongly about it. 

I had a project with another person last year and we had to use my computer to record a role play. I popped open my computer and I'd left a PBS documentary on Mormonism up on my browser. Of course, I'm a little embarrassed, so I make a comment about "oh, I come from further west and I just find them interesting." My partner flipped her shit. She felt very, very strongly that Mormonism was evil and heretical, etc. etc.

[anjulibai]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I didn't realize until recently that a lot of Mormon rituals are ripped off from Free Masonry. It's also interesting, at least here, to see how Mormonism is treated as "heresy" by other evangelical denominations. Some people feel really strongly about it. 

I had a project with another person last year and we had to use my computer to record a role play. I popped open my computer and I'd left a PBS documentary on Mormonism up on my browser. Of course, I'm a little embarrassed, so I make a comment about "oh, I come from further west and I just find them interesting." My partner flipped her shit. She felt very, very strongly that Mormonism was evil and heretical, etc. etc.

A lot of it has to do with the Free Masonry aspect and with the rejection of the Trinity. The former has have been derided as occult from many different groups, and the latter was declared heresy very early in the history of Christianity. I think the latter is the most galling to many, because that was such an early "decision" about the nature of Christ. 

[Walking Cat Bed]

I suspect part of the Mormonism-as-a-boogeyman philosophy is because extreme offshoots (FLDS, in particular) can be used as a distraction for ugly practices in "mainstream" Christianity.

Sure, the Baptist denomination doesn't expect each church to keep predators away from their kids, but the (Fundamentalist/extremist) Mormons are POLYGAMISTS and force little girls to marry old men. 

[precious blessing]

I've ended up hate-watching Michelle's videos (as well as Gently Led Sisters... ugh), I thought I'd share some notes from her latest video.

- Michelle is so glad for us to join her and her *CUPPA TEA*. herbal tea, of course! Hmmmm... no thrift shop tea cup today - she has a pink "grl power" mug. She asks us what we're drinking tonight, and somehow I find myself never wanting to drink again. She's also *super sure* of how old Millie is today

- She gives advice to a viewer struggling with three kids. She tells her to "enjoy her kids, lower her standards, and love your *babies* more." She's working on some new Pinterest boards for games to play with toddlers as well as DS stuff for Millie.

- BEC but she said "skiddywampus" and it made me laugh. I noticed her husband is apparently the moderator of the live-chat thingy...

- Michelle is now a #downssyndromadvocate, fully accessorized with the Lance Armstrong-style DS awareness bracelet.

- She feels great about her diet and she's glad to share it with us! BUT it may not work for everyone, as it has to do with your blood type  Keto is not a fad for her! It's a way of life!

- She wants us to see her "american-made" Grunt Style t-shirt. Sometimes they're a little too american but it speaks to Michelle! She uses showing her worn-to-hell t-shirt, which says "try a refreshing throat punch" (??) as a very smooth segue into discussing her weight loss. She's had *13* kids. She's had *no* cosmetic surgery. She's *47*. She wears *size 6* pants. HOW DOES SHE DO IT?? Becaause of her weight loss, she's had to throw out out all of her large panties, which were lacy and saggy in the butt (PLEASE stop telling us about this, blegh!)

- She has caffeine sensitivity, and that's why she only drinks herbal tea...

- She's set up a mail box so her fans can send her (and Millie) gifts all the time. It's a non-stop pamper momma party!

- Finally some relevant information, Millie has the heart defects VSD and ASD. I'm not sure if she's confirmed this before.

- I know nothing about breast-feeding but this sounded a bit wonky to me - Michelle discusses different combinations of milk she's fed Millie: breastmilk + goat milk, almond milk + heavy whipping cream???

- 26 minutes in and she remembers she has a CUPPA TEA. It's filled to the rim, it she takes a sip. So yummy!

- 30 minutes in, we see Millie. She's sleeping and so beautiful, not purple today, thank Rufus. She's laying on her back tonight but still wrapped in blankets on the bed.

- She *REALLY* wants to tell us all about her other kids... she thinks she'll do it once it's their birthdays. Yeah, it would be nice to give them one full day of acknowledgement, wouldn't it? How thoughtful of you, Michelle.

- Her third child's first name is Rodrick, but they call him by his middle, Borden. More info about the kids' names... Michelle's name is boring! That's why she gave her kids names that would stand out. Her adult children have continued the tradition of weird names, but they just sound like run of the mill.. **alternative** kid names. Pretty normal. Maverick, Odin Steel, Nova Jewel, Jace Ferris. Tuesday's middle name is Nyx? Am I the only one who missed this until now? Michelle's middle name is La Treece.

- She claims to be a midwife since she had her third baby. WTAF. She "learned real quick." First she was a midwife for herself, then she started taking on clients... she's been doing it for 23 years, but now she only really assists with her grandchildrens' births. Yikes.

- Michelle shits on River as a "boomerang kid" and the one she wants to bump out of her house soon. She says he needs to get a real life. He's one of those "millennials that stay home way too long." He's 22. Is he not the one with substance abuse problems? Great parenting, Michelle.

[kesmom]

I watched last night too. So much craziness. 

- the different “concoctions” she is making to supplement Millie’s feedings. She really shouldn’t be changing things around so much as that can cause problems and definitely not almond milk and heavy whipping cream! Sheesh. I hope it doesn’t bother her digestive system too much. 

- CUPPA. Who really cares what is in that mug. And peppermint can be really bad for milk supply. I can’t believe someone with so much experience and “expertise” doesn’t know that. She does her research!

- the Throat Punch tee. What in the world? 

- cosleeping is recommenced for babies with her heart issues. I’d love to see a source for that and I highly doubt it includes fluffy blankets! 

[Lisafer]

22 hours ago, anjulibai said:

A lot of it has to do with the Free Masonry aspect and with the rejection of the Trinity. The former has have been derided as occult from many different groups, and the latter was declared heresy very early in the history of Christianity. I think the latter is the most galling to many, because that was such an early "decision" about the nature of Christ. 

Very true. Being non-Trinitarian is the quickest way to get yourself declared a heretic by a large number of Christian denominations. My fundie church would have absolutely refused to let anybody join who did not profess belief in the Trinity. 

The hilarious thing is that the LDS make a strong argument for their position when they point out that the Trinity is not taught in the Bible, and that the whole doctrine was codified long after the time of the apostles! 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Newborns with DS can have digestive problems already. And here she is giving the poor baby weird concoctions! She should be nursing and using only one type of formula. That way if she has some sort of allergy or intolerance, she will have a better idea of the problem. This woman is a fucking moron. 

[Ozlsn]

4 hours ago, precious blessing said:

I know nothing about breast-feeding but this sounded a bit wonky to me - Michelle discusses different combinations of milk she's fed Millie: breastmilk + goat milk, almond milk + heavy whipping cream???

You know when she said she was supplementing in the last live video  I swear she only mentioned her daughter's excess breast milk. None of that is recommended for any newborn, let alond one with potential GI issues. FFS Michelle, get some newborn formula and add in the extra calories with that via your bottle/SNS. Sheesh.

[llucie]

4 hours ago, precious blessing said:

Michelle's middle name is La Treece.

 

Thats the 13º one in spanish but with bad spelling, weird name to give your 12º child.

 Maybe thats the reason why she always wanted to have 13 kids, to honour her trashy middle name.

[Hane]

The Mormon interpretation of their founder’s Word of Wisdom has always been inconsistent. The prohibition against “hot drinks and hot soups” comes from a certain 19th-century health fad that predated Mormonism and had nothing to do with caffeine. Joseph Smith and his colleagues brewed and drank beer. The Word of Wisdom told people to eat meat sparingly. 

Back in the ‘60s, I met a little girl who told me she was Mormon. “That means we can’t drink Coke,” she said. 

[JustEnough]

On 3/7/2019 at 10:13 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m going to throw this out there. I bet Michelle is the type that is crazy prolife. She probably condemns mothers who abort due to a DS diagnosis (those tests are quite accurate these days). Yet here she is, putting the life of her baby in jeopardy and seems to be unbothered. I just don’t get it.

I only made it through one video but she did address that in it. She specifically said that people shouldn't abort babies with a DS diagnosis because they are "more perfect" than other babies. And if you don't want to raise one you should give birth anyway because there are waitlists a mile long of people wanting to adopt only a baby who has a DS diagnosis.

She also in the same video told a story of a woman who had her children and then they grew up and moved out and then she decided she was lonely and wanted to still be a Mom (because apparently when your kids move out you are no longer their parent) so she adopted a couple of "Down syndrome kids" and then loved it so much she adopted more. Michelle got a big smile at the end of the story and said that this woman had created a whole new family for herself.