Life in a shoe-How to deal with Social workers at your door.

[starfish]

In Dallas County back in the late 1990s, CPS removed a baby named Roy Aguillar from his mother Yesenia Hernandez. Yesenia refused to give up her parental rights and it went to trial (In Tx, the ultimate parental rights HAD to be decided by a jury, at least back then).

The Dallas County jury returned custody to Yesenia.

She then tortured the 18-month old and eventually murdered him.

Boyfriend helped her. I think the Dallas papers should have published the name and address of every juror that returned that child to his "parents".

I run Yesenia's name through the inmate locator every once in a while to make sure she's still in; her release date is 2041.

Thanks for letting me vent. No sympathy here for LiaS.

[celestial]

Part of my job involves child protection work. Yes you do really have to fuck up quite royally and repeatedly to lose your kids. OK this is the UK I'm talking about but there are many similarities in how our system is run and the system in the USA. Over here everything is done to enable the parents to improve and keep their kids. It is only an absolute last resort that the kids are removed. Foster care is expensive and most older (5yrs +) kids will spend their entire childhood in foster care and wont be adopted. So no, social workers don't remove kids willynilly.

My father is a CPS worker here in California, and I can attest to this. Here, at least, it is very difficult for CPS to remove people's kids. They will try to avoid it if at all possible, because there are simply not enough places for any more foster kids. There are sadly tons of kids in homes that are flat out disgusting. And really, unless she/hubby are doing something waaaay worse than what she shows on her blog, there's no need for her to get all up in arms over it. (And if they are doing something that bad, the poor kids deserve a better home!)

[Wolfie]

Sometimes CPS does step in too fast- but better that than a child dying. My friend had an abusive husband and a nasty divorce, then a mental breakdown. Because of the mental breakdown, her kids were taken even though she would never harm them. (her ex was not at all a fit parent). They ended up with her mom, but she did get them back, I just can't imagine loosing an infant and not getting him back until he was a toddler. But she managed, and she does have a bit of paranoia, she knows that it is paranoia, and would never bundle up and hide her kids from CPS even after what happened.

I'm going to guess that they were taken because of what her dr said, and that she was the only adult in the home.

[dawbs]

*snipping quote tree*

My father is a CPS worker here in California, and I can attest to this. Here, at least, it is very difficult for CPS to remove people's kids. They will try to avoid it if at all possible, because there are simply not enough places for any more foster kids. There are sadly tons of kids in homes that are flat out disgusting. And really, unless she/hubby are doing something waaaay worse than what she shows on her blog, there's no need for her to get all up in arms over it. (And if they are doing something that bad, the poor kids deserve a better home!)

From what I know/have read, it's somewhat cyclical as well.

In our area, after a horrific case where authorities failed to intervene (after having been notified), there was a hue and cry and they became much more vigilant.

And a few years later, when CPS screwed up by being over-vigilant and being accused (rightly or wrongly) of terrorizing families, they became much more lax.

And then something horrible happens and we repeat. It seems to be a 5-10 year cycle.

(I know I've read it too...but I my google-fu isn't finding anything legit to back me up--so maybe I read it somewhere non-legit)

[Mommy22alyns]

What are the chances that inashoe gets a cut from hawking the HSLDA's "services?"

Her whole damn blog reads like one big commercial. :roll:

[SunnyAndrsn]

My sister was investigated after her then-15 year old ended up with a huge black eye and stiches above his eye. He tripped carrying his 9-month old sister, and ended up taking the fall in order to protect her head. In other words, he had his hand wrapped around her head and couldn't protect himself, and ended up hitting a sharp, decorative corner of the arch between their dining room and living room. He was lucky he didn't injury his sight.

Anyway, a teacher at school called CPS and they came to his school to talk to him. Scared the crap out of him! They had a cop along, and nephew drew a picture in order to explain what happened. The cop understood, but the social worker had trouble following it. They called my sister after they talked to my nephew, but based on the report they received, they were planning on pulling him from school and placing him in protective custody that day.

It happens.

[Dinorah]

They actually advice to call an attorney from an anti-CPS organization before answering questions to the social worker, right, that won't raise any red flags *at all*

[starfish]

Her whole damn blog reads like one big commercial.

I think it's their only source of income. I can't figure out what Perry Sr.

does for a living.

[aggythenostic]

This kind of BS gets my knickers in a knot. My best friend worked for CPS as an attorney in Washington for years. If there was really a reason to remove kids from a hone - ie, drug abuse, physical abuse, extreme neglect - she had to GO TO COURT AND FIGHT LIKE A BANSHEE. It wasn't easy. They are trying very very hard to keep the kids in the home because the other options are expensive for the taxpayers and suck for the kids. And when the kids were taken? Nine times out of ten they went to relatives, not into the system.

I've said it before, and Ill say it again: If you have a problem with CPS, then something in your home is very very wrong. It's not the evil socialists godless ones deciding to eat your children.

[synchroswimr]

(speaking as a non-parent here)

I think people are right that CPS investigations are more common than most of us think, but people don't want to talk about it. However, when they do speak about it, the language is very different. The fundies I've seen talk about CPS talk about investigations, harassment, being accused, placing the blame on other people (neighbors who hate Christians, neighbors who hate homeschoolers, an "indiscrete child," etc…). People here who've mentioned it talk about being visited or investigated by CPS because of concern for the children. To me, that is very different language which indicates a very different frame of mind. Of course, being open and accepting will get you much farther than suspicion and antagonism, not that many fundies would recognize that fact

[hoipolloi]

Her whole damn blog reads like one big commercial.

I think it's their only source of income. I can't figure out what Perry Sr.

does for a living.

He works at Vision Forum.

[Linnea]

Not that I'm defending Kim In-a-shoe, but she does say "Most of us know OF families who have been falsely accused and investigated by social services". And then she provides helpful links to the Heritage Defense website, where there are horror stories from highly credible sources like World Net Daily. Follow the links and then you'll know OF them too.

Reading this thread, plus the one about children with special needs whose parents are too paranoid to get them the services they need, and the one about the girl whose adoptive parents starved and abused her to death . . . almost makes me wish CPS did mandatory home visits for everyone. If kids go to school, there is at least the chance of abuse or neglect being noticed and investigated. When parents do their best to isolate their children from contact with the rest of the world, abuse goes unchecked.

[Linnea]

The fundies I've seen talk about CPS talk about investigations, harassment, being accused, placing the blame on other people (neighbors who hate Christians, neighbors who hate homeschoolers, an "indiscrete child," etc…). People here who've mentioned it talk about being visited or investigated by CPS because of concern for the children. To me, that is very different language which indicates a very different frame of mind.

Quoted For Truth.

[NurseNell]

inashoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/DSC09090.jpg

I can't get this photo up. I'd love to see the sleeping set up she has.

[MerryHappy]

No, I don't. I am in my 40's, am a military wife, and have known quite a few people in my life. I tried to think about it, but I don't personally know anyone who has been falsely accused and investigated by social services.

I find that statement interesting. I mean, what kind of people does she hang around with???

People who think it is okay to beat their children with plumbing supply line, pull their infants hair, thump/swat/hit their kids and leave them outside in the the freezing cold until they die.

I'd be paranoid if I surrounded myself with such fuckwads.

[emmiedahl]

The fact that she posts about it suggests that this is something QF worry about a lot. That in itself concerns me. Let's say a social worker showed up at my door right now. My house is a mess with toys everywhere, the kitchen floor needs swept and there is a huge pile of laundry on my bed that needs folded, but I don't think a professional social worker who sees real problems every day would care. My daughter is coloring at the table and my baby is asleep on the couch beside me, the rest are at school. Everyone has appropriate beds, clean clothing, nothing more than the usual scrapes from playing outside. Why would I be threatened? I might be amused or annoyed depending on who reported and why, but not threatened. The social worker could hang around all day if she wants. Nothing to look at here.

What do these people have to hide that they can't let a social worker in their home without an attorney and a warrant?

[Mompom]

People who think it is okay to beat their children with plumbing supply line, pull their infants hair, thump/swat/hit their kids and leave them outside in the the freezing cold until they die.

I'd be paranoid if I surrounded myself with such fuckwads.

I really think that is so true. I think they are paranoid because deep down they know they are doing things that are wrong. When we were in the public school home school assistance program, the head teacher would tell me about other families (totally unprofessional of her, I know!) who were paranoid of the school involvement in any way. They didn't want to show her what they were doing, etc. Of course there were plenty of "normal" homeschoolers too, but there were so wackos. Now, I still hear about people who don't want to turn their papers in to the government to show that they are homeschooling. What are they scared of?? My theory is *be normal*. Get yourself on the radar so if anything ever does happen, you have a doctor or two, friends, neighbors, therapists, teachers, etc who can vouch for your character and parenting abilities. These people are so isolated that even if they were good parents who were falsely accused, they would not have many people to vouch for them. Or at least people who are respected by the governmental authorities. I don't know if my theory is correct, but even if it isn't, isolation isn't really fun for any reason.

[NurseNell]

inashoe.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/DSC09090.jpg

OK, now I can see it. Holy cow. :roll: Those kids must have terrible backaches from those thin mattresses to say nothing of getting headaches if the sit up too fast. It looks like there's just plywood around the bunks, not even regular walls.

[lilwriter85]

OK, now I can see it. Holy cow. :roll: Those kids must have terrible backaches from those thin mattresses to say nothing of getting headaches if the sit up too fast. It looks like there's just plywood around the bunks, not even regular walls.

I do wonder about the kids having backaches and eventually back problems

[jenny_islander]

A friend of mine told her preschool daughter NOT TO CLIMB the high bar-stool-style seats on the tables next to the play area at McDonald's. She turned her back for an instant to go get ketchup or something, up the kid went, and down she came, right on her face. This happened in plain sight of the counter workers, but because stitches were involved and it happened under Mom's supervision, CPS was called in and she had to prove that the kids were not in danger. That's the worst I've ever heard of in my community. She happened to be homeschooling another child, but it never came up in the interviews.

There was a case back in the early '90s (IIRC) of a couple who consulted a doctor because their toddler was extremely tall and had a very large number of teeth already in and had her taken away because the number on the scale meant that the girl must be fat. In order to keep their daughter, the couple essentially had to starve her. She had to go to special physical therapy because the diet she had to be on to make her acceptably "thin" didn't allow her to grow enough muscle mass to move her own bones around in a normal way. But that's fat phobia, not hatred of homeschooling. (I contacted the reporter who broke the story to find out if the girl's parents ever got a diagnosis, but no reply.)

There was that family in Scotland that had to endure being watched while they ate for more than a year and lost their children anyway because they were unacceptably pudgy. But from what I've read, that was a personal vendetta combined with, again, fat phobia.

[docmom]

I have no patience for this shade of bullshit. I admire CPS workers more than just about any other public servant (one of my best friends is one, and I literally have no idea how she gets through the day). Most of them are wonderful and caring people operating on shoestring budgets and they do not have the time or inclination to be removing kids from non-abusive homes for shits and giggles. As evidenced just about everywhere, they don't have the manpower or budget to remove all of the kids who truly need to be removed! They want to help, they want parents to succeed and be able to keep or earn back their children, and acting in such a manner as ushering your kids out the back door is just going to ping their radars. If one showed up on my doorstep I'd be flabbergasted but I'd welcome them into my home with open arms.

This, this, this!!! These people are incredible. They have an absolutely heartbreaking job, they get no respect, nobody likes them and if they, like us all, mess up, it's headline news. In 99.9999% of cases, if you are wrongly accused, they will not take your kids away.

[ems]

OMG OMG OMG. Heritage defense appears to be a fucking SCAM! I simply cannot believe the bold face bullshit they're selling!

1 - Um, unless theres some exemption that I am unaware of they need to list the states they are admitted to. Thats not listed anywhere. So if I'm in New York I'm supposed to have these texas attorneys come represent me? Um, that cant happen. They dont say they are a referral service, they indicate on their website that THEY are the attorneys. So thats a big flashing red light.

2 - They are a little light on the law. Their site states:

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Perhaps this is just an instance of texas attorneys speaking generally, but this is a HUGE NO NO. Here in Georgia a social worker must show up based upon the complaint alone. If you hinder their investigation or refuse access THEY CAN TAKE THE CHILDREN. They do not need a court order, warrant, permission slip, message from god etc. They just take them! There is a statute that grants them that authority. These crack lawyers are confusing civil and criminal law, which is quite common. You have a 4th amendment right to not have things illegally aquired used against you and you may have a civil suit if its egregious. You do NOT have the right to refuse to cooperate with DFCS because they dont have a warrant.

3. I love the little disclaimer that says they dont have to take every case due to "IRS" regulations http://www.heritagedefense.org/member-benefits

So, in summary. I should pay you nearly $200/year so that you may or may not represent me in a state you may or may not be licensed to practice. If you are not licensed to practice in my state you cant give me ANY advice over the phone, the internet, or in court... because you dont know my law... which means I just wasted $200.

YAY BANDWAGON!

Scam was the first thing I thought.

And yeah, that picture just made me sad :(. Why, when you supposedly value children and life as much as you claim to, would you actually choose to live in conditions like that?

[Burris]

Yeah, no kidding. Why, in any home where nothing untoward was going on, would a child need to be "discrete" in the first place? I can't imagine a scenario where I would feel the need to ask my children to be discrete about their treatment.

That's Hiding Abuse 101: "Whatever happens at home stays at home."

It says a lot about HSLDA's priorities - dogma before the lives of actual children - are out of whack.

Here's a good rule of thumb: If what you're doing is so shameful you don't want outsiders to know, then it's wrong and you should fucking stop doing it.

[ems]

This. I read the blog this morning and couldn't figure out for the life of me why someone would basically keep a CPS-fighter on retainer. Why would you be proactive about going up against CPS, unless you expect them to be called many, many times on you? It's kind of like Prepaid Legal. Who keeps that handy unless they are either a.) SUPER paranoid b.) have pissed off someone who is batshit insane or c.) are knowingly doing something that is questionable?

CPS being called once, you deal with it as the events unfold and make corrective actions. But if you make a habit of having CPS called on you, perhaps you need to put your money and effort into parenting your children, instead of taking on the people that are looking out for their safety.

I'm no Jeff Foxworthy, but If you keep a CPS defense firm on retainer...you might be a shitty parent.

I think some of these parents seem to think that CPS is a group that exists to legally persecute True Homeschooling Christians. :roll:

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think some of these parents seem to think that CPS is a group that exists to legally persecute True Homeschooling Christians. :roll:

Yep, you're right. These are people who think a thread at FJ is persecution, after all.