Life in a shoe-How to deal with Social workers at your door.

[fundiefan]

So, she's obviously one of the pro-life folks who would gladly allow/want more government and interference to remove my rights to control my body but, her kids who are alive and walking the earth, are hers alone to do with as she chooses and government agencies that exist to protect children are infringing upon her rights and she needs to protect herself from them?

Typical fundie version of life.

As was already said I doubt homeschooling had anything to do with a visit from CPS if, in fact, they did show up at her door.

[batwing]

thats the best part! They're not even ON retainer! You're giving them money to belong to an "organization" that may or may not represent you if there is a need! Can FJ start such an organization? We'll help guide you if you ever need to run away from bible thumpers!

I love how that site lists only one case, has no mention of states admitted or legal organizations they belong to, has no mention of CLE's or anything else thats relevant when selecting an attorney. Its just JESUS!

I'd totally pick a doctor based on those credentials...

If everyone gives me $14/month, I may or may not help you at some time in the future. One time I helped someone else, take my word for it.

That money would be better spent on real beds.

[Buzzard]

If everyone gives me $14/month, I may or may not help you at some time in the future. One time I helped someone else, take my word for it.

That money would be better spent on real beds.

Exactly - but this way she can just solicit others and not buy beds! Is she even IN texas?

[emmiedahl]

I can attest that it is really hard to get kids removed by CPS and even harder to keep them from going back to a bad situation. I have mentioned my bipolar brother; he had a few years when he was self-medicating and basically a crackhead. He was still the more stable parent, if that gives you an idea of how bad the mom is. We called CPS repeatedly and the social workers would visit and tell them to clean up their act... that was it! The kids were not taken away until my sister in law purposely crashed their SUV with kids in it because she and my brother were fighting while driving. And even then, the kids probably would not have been taken away except that a cop tried to stop their fight and got hit. She had to take a few parenting classes and then the kids were returned to her crackhouse apartment full of squatters.

Seriously you have to really fuck up in order to get your kids removed. There are a few cases in which the government has been overzealous, but these are exceptions to the general rule.

[Sola]

OMG OMG OMG. Heritage defense appears to be a fucking SCAM! I simply cannot believe the bold face bullshit they're selling!

1 - Um, unless theres some exemption that I am unaware of they need to list the states they are admitted to. Thats not listed anywhere. So if I'm in New York I'm supposed to have these texas attorneys come represent me? Um, that cant happen. They dont say they are a referral service, they indicate on their website that THEY are the attorneys. So thats a big flashing red light.

2 - They are a little light on the law. Their site states:

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!!! Perhaps this is just an instance of texas attorneys speaking generally, but this is a HUGE NO NO. Here in Georgia a social worker must show up based upon the complaint alone. If you hinder their investigation or refuse access THEY CAN TAKE THE CHILDREN. They do not need a court order, warrant, permission slip, message from god etc. They just take them! There is a statute that grants them that authority. These crack lawyers are confusing civil and criminal law, which is quite common. You have a 4th amendment right to not have things illegally aquired used against you and you may have a civil suit if its egregious. You do NOT have the right to refuse to cooperate with DFCS because they dont have a warrant.

3. I love the little disclaimer that says they dont have to take every case due to "IRS" regulations http://www.heritagedefense.org/member-benefits

So, in summary. I should pay you nearly $200/year so that you may or may not represent me in a state you may or may not be licensed to practice. If you are not licensed to practice in my state you cant give me ANY advice over the phone, the internet, or in court... because you dont know my law... which means I just wasted $200.

YAY BANDWAGON!

This one raises a red flag for me:

False Reports generated by rebellious, disobedient, or indiscreet children within the home

Indiscreet? You mean those kids who take exception at having 7 shades of shit knocked out of them with a plumbing line? That kind of indiscreet children?

[emmiedahl]

If your children are so rebellious and disobedient that they are making false reports, maybe your child-training methods are not as good as you think.

My untrained children have been pissed at me before, but none have tried to get themselves removed from their home.

[Sola]

And in my (limited) experience, you gotta work REALLY HARD to lose your kids.

Part of my job involves child protection work. Yes you do really have to fuck up quite royally and repeatedly to lose your kids. OK this is the UK I'm talking about but there are many similarities in how our system is run and the system in the USA. Over here everything is done to enable the parents to improve and keep their kids. It is only an absolute last resort that the kids are removed. Foster care is expensive and most older (5yrs +) kids will spend their entire childhood in foster care and wont be adopted. So no, social workers don't remove kids willynilly.

[DistantStar]

A neighbor once called CPS out of spite; I was three years old, and apparently whoever they sent in came in, talked to Mom for a minute, took a peek at napping me and said, "This child is not abused," and left. I expect a lot more CPS calls go like that than otherwise. And for those that go otherwise, if you're so afraid of them you've paid fake lawyers for bad advice, perhaps you should rethink what you're doing to cause the visits. Duh.

[Austin]

This one raises a red flag for me:

Indiscreet? You mean those kids who take exception at having 7 shades of shit knocked out of them with a plumbing line? That kind of indiscreet children?

Yeah, no kidding. Why, in any home where nothing untoward was going on, would a child need to be "discrete" in the first place? I can't imagine a scenario where I would feel the need to ask my children to be discrete about their treatment.

[Koala]

Yeah, no kidding. Why, in any home where nothing untoward was going on, would a child need to be "discrete" in the first place? I can't imagine a scenario where I would feel the need to ask my children to be discrete about their treatment.

These people are disgusting. I say that a lot here.

[FuManchu]

In terms of red flags as a CPS worker, turning up at a house to find the door being held shut against you by someone yelling "I'm calling Heritage Defence!" while the children are evacuated out of the back door must be pretty high up...

[emmiedahl]

I was thinking about this more. If I were abusing my children, if some mental illness hit me or something, I really hope someone would take them. I have relatives who would take care of them and I would never want to see them hurt by their own mother. I cannot even imagine my sweet little baby being hit by plumbing line; better to have him with strangers than being beaten. The fact that fundies are more afraid of losing their children than of having their children abused really says something about their parenting.

[TMS]

Most of us know of families who have been falsely accused and investigated by social services; we do.

No, I don't. I am in my 40's, am a military wife, and have known quite a few people in my life. I tried to think about it, but I don't personally know anyone who has been falsely accused and investigated by social services.

I find that statement interesting. I mean, what kind of people does she hang around with???

[lilwriter85]

No, I don't. I am in my 40's, am a military wife, and have known quite a few people in my life. I tried to think about it, but I don't personally know anyone who has been falsely accused and investigated by social services.

I find that statement interesting. I mean, what kind of people does she hang around with???

That statement indeed is interesting. She seems to imply that most people she knows have been investigated or falsely accused by CPS. I think she likely has friends who have the same fundie mindset as her and they may do certain things that could appear as neglect to some people.

[emmiedahl]

I know people who had a social worker come to their door because of a malicious neighbor, and the social worker saw that everything was okay and filed the case as unfounded. It happened to my husband in his first marriage, and to a friend of mine who unschools. Is that the same as being 'falsely accused and investigated'? It is part of CPS's function--to investigate these accusations--and if they see that the children are fine and leave it there, then that is a success story in my opinion.

It's not like your kids will get taken away just because some neighbor is an asshole. CPS social workers walk up to the door hoping that they will find a happy family and well-loved children. I bet it makes their day a lot more pleasant.

[dawbs]

No, I don't. I am in my 40's, am a military wife, and have known quite a few people in my life. I tried to think about it, but I don't personally know anyone who has been falsely accused and investigated by social services.

I find that statement interesting. I mean, what kind of people does she hang around with???

I actually think it isn't that unusual--it's just that most people don't talk about it. If I had CPS called on me, unless you're my BFF, I'm not telling anyone.

I know of at least 4 or 5 families who have been investigated--some of those people I don't hang out with voluntarily (idiot cousin who lost custody of her kids came to mind--I didn't call CPS because I didn't know how bad it was, but I"m glad someone did), but some of the time, it's just one of those things

My SIL, when she cut off her horrid excuses for birth-parents, mysteriously had anon. complaints against her to CPS--claiming she was abusing my niece :roll: . Another friend of mine had a run-in with a parent at school [because of a 'our kids don't get along' type of drama/bullying] and had similar complaints made. In both cases CPS didn't do anything (well, they investigated. But they didn't seize children, etc. They just said "nope, nothing wrong here" and left it alone)

(FTR, I've called CPS a few times [in education--so students, kinda] on people who, as it turns out were completely innocent--don't regret calling.)

[Rosa]

Ditto, I know some people. A routine visit that nothing happens at isn't something you'd hear about much after the fact, because it turns out not to be important. I have a friend who had awful neighbors in a condo development, who called CPS repeatedly - it caused some stress and drama because the association ended up having to make some safety improvements on the property's shared areas, and she complained about it at the time because who needs more stress or extra construction projects. But none of the visits were a huge threat, just an annoyance.

Also, if you're the kind of paranoid hide-the-kids-and-guns person like her readers seem to be, the routine mail and phone calls we got from our local Early Childhood Services group until my son started school might seem like a crazy threatening CPS checkup (they send out questionnaires about child development and if you respond that you have concerns or your kid is behind, they send mail and/or a person to make sure you have access to health care and services - in my neighborhood that includes free lead testing, parent education, parent & child playgroups, autism services, services for Deaf kids, etc.)

[emmiedahl]

My daughter's preschool does home visits twice a year. Does that mean I have been accused and investigated? I get the feeling fundies do not want anyone up in their business, not even a little bit.

[keen23]

In the recent past, my niece and nephew were removed from their parents. And, in this case, it took CPS far too long-in my opinion- to respond to multiple concerns about the treatment of the children in her home. Her boyfriend beating my 3 year old nephew for wetting the bed wasn't enough cause to get them removed. It took the boyfriend actually beating my SIL, in front of her children (and his) and holding them hostage for two days before CPS took the threat seriously. The children were removed, because the boyfriend wasn't supposed to even have contact with the kids (after the beating incident), and yet she allowed him to move in.

[grateful1230]

I have personally dealt with DSS (my state's version of CPS). They weren't coming for myself or my son, but my son's friend that lived with us at the time (the boys were both 6). Friend's mother got in trouble, DSS took him from my house as I was an unlicensed foster parent. Spent three months jumping through all hoops needed only to be told that as a single mother and one income family (of course - I don't expect my child to pay rent) that I couldn't afford two kids. This was only amusing because I had in fact been supporting both of them for months prior to this.

long story short, the boy went back to his mom at the end of that year. Less than a week later, he lived with us again. This time it only took a month for his mom to get back in trouble, and once again DSS was at my door. This time, the brilliant social worker asked me why I continued to allow the child in my house. My response that my home was not filled with drugs, only toys, was not received well. So again, the now 7 year old boy was taken to strangers in foster care. This led to my son being terrified to leave me at all, because he was certain DSS would take him (I had not explained to him *why* his friend had been taken - anyone ever tried to explain crack to a 7 year old?!)

Obviously I didn't want these lovely DSS workers all in my house, but I had nothing to hide and was more than willing to do what it took to get the child out of DSS custody. I can only imagine what could've happened had I taken ShoeMom's approach and hidden my son and his friend. You don't need to allude the authorities if you have nothing to hide..

[starfish]

Someone on the old board once posted that it takes drugs AND guns sitting out on the kitchen table before CPS takes the kids.....

Kim lives such a secluded life. I wonder who in the world knows her or about her family to call something in?

She posted something once about how they were devoted anti-vaxxers despite the fact that they've had whooping cough rage through the family like three times.....that gave me pause.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I have no patience for this shade of bullshit. I admire CPS workers more than just about any other public servant (one of my best friends is one, and I literally have no idea how she gets through the day). Most of them are wonderful and caring people operating on shoestring budgets and they do not have the time or inclination to be removing kids from non-abusive homes for shits and giggles. As evidenced just about everywhere, they don't have the manpower or budget to remove all of the kids who truly need to be removed! They want to help, they want parents to succeed and be able to keep or earn back their children, and acting in such a manner as ushering your kids out the back door is just going to ping their radars. If one showed up on my doorstep I'd be flabbergasted but I'd welcome them into my home with open arms.

[Mompom]

Someone on the old board once posted that it takes drugs AND guns sitting out on the kitchen table before CPS takes the kids.....

I think that there are huge differences on this from state to state.

[batwing]

Ditto, I know some people. A routine visit that nothing happens at isn't something you'd hear about much after the fact, because it turns out not to be important.

Yep. I've never had a visit, but was interviewed. One time I had a doctor appointment and had to take my son with me. He had started walking literally 2 weeks before and decided to scale a chair that was positioned near a bookshelf, which then flipped the chair over and he landed face first into a bookshelf. He sliced his eyebrow open but it was fine, no stitches needed or anything but the scab was pretty gnarly (at age 6 he still has a scar, face wounds are like that). So I'm at this doctor appointment right after it happened, and the doctor (who doesn't treat my son) wanted to know what happened to my son's face. We were interviewed on site by a social worker, and I think we may have had a follow-up call but I can't remember for the life of me. When you don't have anything to hide, it's not a big deal. You answer questions, if your child is verbal they may talk to them (and you pray your young child doesn't say anything insane- my husband used to tell people his mom put him in the oven when she went to work :shock:) and then you're done.

And you know what? I'm GLAD the doctor did that. That shows me that even though they've known me for years and I seem like a nice enough person with a stable marriage and happy children, if my kid shows up with a busted face they're going to ask questions- as it should be.

[ADoyle90815]

My SIL had severe PPD when she had my niece, and it was so bad that she even tried to commit suicide when my niece was in the apartment. Since my state has mandatory reporting laws, the hospital did notify CPS, and when they checked out my brother, they saw that there was lots of family support, and that my niece wasn't being abused or neglected in any way, so they closed the case. One really has to screw up a lot to have children taken away, and even then, it's not always enough. There have been cases locally where children wee killed because CPS was too reluctant to remove them.

Since then, my SIL has gotten the PPD under control, and once CPS dropped the case, nothing more has happened.