Life in a shoe-How to deal with Social workers at your door.

[FloraDoraDolly]

When I was a child in the early 1980s, one of my mom's friends was deeply disturbed by what she was hearing from the house next door. The man who lived there was absolutely crazy. He beat his kids, he beat the dog. He might have been beating his wife too, I don't remember. The wife (the children's stepmother) would hit the younger child right out there in the yard. This same child was acting out sexually with another, smaller little girl in the neighborhood. So after Mom's friend had seen and heard enough, she reported the family.

Long story short... The Humane Society came and took the dog the next day. The kids remained in that home for another couple of years, until the father threatened them with a gun (thankfully, he didn't shoot), the stepmother walked out, and the kids' real mother decided to let the kids live with her. Everyone in the neighborhood always wondered wtf was wrong with the mother that the judge gave custody to the crazy dad in the first place.

[duplessis3]

We were investigated (CPS came once.) And honestly, I flipped the hell out. Even though the Social Worker said she knew there was no neglect because my house was clean, the kids were clean, I have my kids' doc's ph number memorized and the kids told her jokes. I found it very upsetting, but of course I was the kid in school that felt guilty when the class got lectured on for bad behavior even though I hadn't done anything.

HSLA is worse than useless - they actively give bad advice.

[Austin]

I don't get what's so terrible-awful-horrific to be interviewed by a CPS worker if your kid shows up to school with an injury. In homes where there is no abuse, I srsly doubt whether it amounts to anything for the most part.

I have been questioned in the ER when I took my boys in for stitches and the like. What's the problem. They ask me what happened, I told them, and then they would ask the child. If the story makes sense and there isn't a long history, it was never a problem. I would frankly be upset if they hadn't asked me. How many kids are abused systematically for years? A whole lot. I think if your kid has an injury, it's fair to question you about how it happened.

My husband has called CPS dozens of times over his career. Most of those situations amounted to nothing. If anything, I would say CPS is too slow to respond, but social workers are also very overworked with huge caseloads and are paid poorly for it.

[emmiedahl]

I think it's normal when you take a child into an ER with an injury to be questioned. I had my oldest son break his leg just before his 4th birthday. Days after the cast came off, he broke his arm. Hell yes the doctors wanted to hear about it. Ditto when a lamp fell on my then-5 year old daughter's head, necessitating stitches. Jeez, I would hope they ask a few questions.

[Kitty]

My parents once told me that when I was learning to walk, I'd fall and hit my head on one corner of the coffee table. Of course I'd never hit my head on anything else. I'd be fine, but they'd take me to the hospital just in case. Apparently this happened so many times the doctors began to wonder if my parents were abusing me. They weren't, but they were still a bit freaked out about being accused of abuse.

I can understand being rather nervous about CPS coming in- we hear so many myths about CPS taking a kid away for the silliest reasons. I'd rather have an overzealous CPS than one that didn't do much of anything. And we have to think about where these stories come from. Parents hit their kid to punish them, CPS comes around not long after, oh noes, CPS will put your kid in foster care for spanking them! That's not true, especially in the vast majority of cases. If you're so scared about CPS coming that you actually HIDE YOUR KIDS for 3 days and link to some bullshit from attorneys in Texas... you might want to re-think your parenting techniques.

The "bedroom" those kids are in is just awful. What the fuck? Even getting past the shelves, the walls don't reach the ceiling, and the floor is clearly unfinished. There's stuff behind the wall that's poking into the bedroom. How do the kids get on the top bunks? What if they fall?

Isn't this also the lady who made a bed-wetting child sleep on the floor?

[Trynn]

Those sorry excuses for beds...honestly brought to mind the phrase "children stacked like cordwood."

[justlurking]

Looks to me like the only thing this group can do is give general advice to clients and advocate on their behalf--something any of us can do, no law degree required. Although this website lists "cases" (only 1) that this "group" (of 2 lawyers) have been involved with, I don't see anything to attest to their prowess in taking legal action to save innocent children from the clutches of "evil social workers". So, this begs the question--why the hell would anyone pay nearly $200 (that couldn't been put toward proper meals, bedding, and vaccinations for children--which would probably be more effective in staving off CPS) for a group that can't even prove their effectiveness?

[Guest Anonymous]

Those sorry excuses for beds...honestly brought to mind the phrase "children stacked like cordwood."

Yeah pallets from costco. Sheesh.

[mirele]

My daughter's preschool does home visits twice a year. Does that mean I have been accused and investigated? I get the feeling fundies do not want anyone up in their business, not even a little bit.

Oh, but they want to be up in my business in a big way.

[thoughtful]

Those sorry excuses for beds...honestly brought to mind the phrase "children stacked like cordwood."

I believe it was that picture that inspired someone here to use that phrase -- can't remember who, now.

[MckSassy]

Isn't this also the lady who made a bed-wetting child sleep on the floor?

Nope, that was her friend Emily. Emily used to "guest post" on her Frugal Hacks blog.

[Katiebug]

I can understand being rather nervous about CPS coming in- we hear so many myths about CPS taking a kid away for the silliest reasons. I'd rather have an overzealous CPS than one that didn't do much of anything. And we have to think about where these stories come from. Parents hit their kid to punish them, CPS comes around not long after, oh noes, CPS will put your kid in foster care for spanking them! That's not true, especially in the vast majority of cases. If you're so scared about CPS coming that you actually HIDE YOUR KIDS for 3 days and link to some bullshit from attorneys in Texas... you might want to re-think your parenting techniques.

I'll be honest, I'd probably wet my pants if I had DCF show up at my door and say they thought I was abusing or neglecting my child. Of course I'd let them in, but I'd be terrified. Those people have the power to TAKE OUR CHILD - my sweet toddler who is very much attached to her mommy and daddy. She's still nursing and has never been away from me overnight. If we were so much as paid a visit, I'd be contacting an attorney the minute the DCF worker left. We have nothing to hide but that doesn't mean I'd just grin and say it was no big deal. It would be a big freaking deal to me to essentially be accused of hurting my kid and I think most parents would feel the same way.

I agree that this outright fear of DCF/CPS/etc. seems to come from certain segments - the fundie homeschoolers, the non-vaxers, the rabid attachment parents, etc. I don't know if unconventional parenting choices make them feel uncertain or if in many cases they know deep down that there IS potential that they're causing harm to their children.

[dianapavelovna]

Gotta get this out of my system: not everyone who works in investigations or casework for CPS is a social worker (just as not all social workers work in child welfare!). Social workers have degrees in social work and have passed state licensing tests - in most states, CPS (or DCF, DHS, whatever) workers need only a bachelor's degree - in any discipline - to hold their position. I'm on a single-handed mission to make it common knowledge that "social worker" is a term as exclusive as "nurse" or "doctor." You can't just call yourself one; you have to have the training and the license.

Any good CPS worker will introduce themselves with their badge and/or card, as well as provide information about the allegations and their contact information. In Texas, workers are also required to give out their supervisor's contact info. So none of that is bad advice. And I'm no legal expert, but as far as I know, the warrant business varies state-to-state. In Texas, if parents deny access to their home or children, a warrant is needed. However, refusing access is a big red flag. The worker is likely to go sit in their car at the curb, call their supervisor, and put the process of getting a warrant in motion (especially with families like these - a classic move is to go visit & interview the child at school, because at that point all you need is the child's consent to speak to them, but that's not possible with homeschoolers).

[emmiedahl]

I think maybe it depends on your state. In California and Washington there is no social worker exam or license. I have known people who were employed as social workers and that was their job title, without this license. I did not even know it existed and had to google it. But, no, it is not like being a doctor or a nurse. If some states have a licensing system, it certainly is not universal unless you are talking about an LCSW or something, which is not the only type of social worker out there.

[NurseNell]

Here a social worker means a licensed social worker, which requires a master's degree in social work. Other people doing social work type of positions are called case workers and they work under the supervision of licensed social worker. Most CPS investigators seem to be case workers.

[emmiedahl]

Interesting. When I googled for a licensing exam in the two states in which I have lived, neither one has one. I am familiar with LCSW, but in California that is like a therapist. An everyday social worker can have a bachelors. I used to work at a nonprofit social work agencies and the licensed ones, the LCSW's, were therapists or managers, while the Social Worker I, II and III (depending on your training/level) were social workers with just a bachelors or masters.

So, if you tell people that all social workers must be licensed, like a nurse, then you might be misleading them accidentally, depending on the state.

[Lillybee]

Didn't Emily get a visit from CPS about the time she shut down her blog?

[emmiedahl]

I think that is why she shut it down. I know she had some crappy excuse, but I think the CPS visit is what did it.

[Lillybee]

I do hope that Emily has regained her senses and is doing the right things for her children.

[Sola]

I think it's normal when you take a child into an ER with an injury to be questioned. I had my oldest son break his leg just before his 4th birthday. Days after the cast came off, he broke his arm. Hell yes the doctors wanted to hear about it. Ditto when a lamp fell on my then-5 year old daughter's head, necessitating stitches. Jeez, I would hope they ask a few questions.

We had one horrendous week week when my son was 7. On Monday he fell off a bench at school and hit his head on a concrete post requiring stitches. On Wednesday, while off school due to the stitches in his head he was playing kickabout with a football in the garden. He went to kick the ball, missed and kicked the wall breaking a small bone at the base of his toe. Off to hospital we went again. On Friday he is back at school and playing football again. He and another boy both went to head the ball at the same time. Instead of heading the ball they headed each other. My son was taken to the hospital for a 3rd time, this time with concussion. Thankfully 2 of the incidents happened at school but I still got a visit from the health visitor. It's standard procedure and I knew that because of my job. She had a quick chat with my son's school who told her that 2 of the 3 incidents happened during school hours and that was it, case closed.

Thing is, if they don't do things like this, then kids do slip through the net and those kids are the ones that end up dead.

[MonkeyMomma]

Interesting. When I googled for a licensing exam in the two states in which I have lived, neither one has one. I am familiar with LCSW, but in California that is like a therapist. An everyday social worker can have a bachelors. I used to work at a nonprofit social work agencies and the licensed ones, the LCSW's, were therapists or managers, while the Social Worker I, II and III (depending on your training/level) were social workers with just a bachelors or masters.

So, if you tell people that all social workers must be licensed, like a nurse, then you might be misleading them accidentally, depending on the state.

I think you can also be licensed with a bachelor's in most states (LSW), including Minnesota. LCSW is a licensed clinical social worker, which definitely requires a MSW and can do counseling.

MN licensing info: http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDocs/ ... 20Book.pdf

[JesusFightClub]

UK response here but I have worked with social workers tasked with removing children. I do not understand how people can say they do it for the furtherance of some malign social agenda or for the lulz.

Social workers tasked with removing newborns hate every single second. I have seen them weep uncontrollably in private because they knew they had to do it or there would be a dead baby soon, but it goes against all of their human feelings.

Also, social workers can never say their side of the story because of their job. The parents can emote all over the media, appear holding hands and looking winsome and tearful as they share their story about how their children were stolen away because Daddy had a dream in 1995 about smoking a cigarette, and they are the most fantastic parents ever etc. I saw the background reports. In *every single case* the reality did not remotely approach the glowing media image of two loving parents unfairly victimised.

It makes a nice story for the papers. And the parents get paid which will be a strong consideration for them to say the least. The reality never appears cause it's not "sexy" and because it is a breach of the ethical code for social workers to set the record straight.

[dianapavelovna]

Interesting. When I googled for a licensing exam in the two states in which I have lived, neither one has one. I am familiar with LCSW, but in California that is like a therapist. An everyday social worker can have a bachelors. I used to work at a nonprofit social work agencies and the licensed ones, the LCSW's, were therapists or managers, while the Social Worker I, II and III (depending on your training/level) were social workers with just a bachelors or masters.

So, if you tell people that all social workers must be licensed, like a nurse, then you might be misleading them accidentally, depending on the state.

Licensing requirements vary by state, and I'm certainly no expert on the vagaries of that! I was speaking from what's true in my state, and failed to say that. (In Texas it's illegal to call yourself a social worker if you're not licensed). My point is that "social worker" is not a term that can be applied to anyone who works for a social service agency. You can't call yourself a "social worker" because you work at CPS anymore than you can call yourself a "nurse" because you work in a hospital. It's a discreet profession with its own training and standards and requires at the very least a bachelor's or master's degree in SW. An LCSW is a master's level social worker who's completed additional training under the supervision of a senior LCSW.

It's a point of contention for me that there's no national standards for social work. I'm working my butt off here in Texas to pass the licensing test when if I lived in another state, I may not have to worry about a test at all. I think centralizing licensing and testing requirements would go a long way toward boosting the profession and the recognition of social workers as highly trained professionals like nurses and doctors, but it's not up to me. :p

[SimplyMe]

I had a conversation recently about this organization. I homeschool my children (we actually do schoolwork, not Duggar-esque homeschool). My oldest daughter takes horseback riding lessons on Thursday mornings with a group of homeschooled kids. I was talking with the parents of one of the girls last week. They asked me if I belonged to this Home School Defense organization and when I told them that I didn't, they STRONGLY advised that I join. They kept going on and on about how as parents, our rights are on the line. First they are forcing us to submit test scores, next they'll be forcing our kids into public schools (hum, argumentative fallacy at all?!). Also, you never know when a neighbor might see your children out playing during the day and report you to CPS, who you know are always looking to take children away from their homes. Oh my! Their logic was so irrational, but they absoltutely believe that these things could happen and that they need to be protected just in case.

I didn't know what to say and just kind of kept shaking my head and saying "uh huh." Here's the thing; my kids truly have a blessed life with a mom and dad who love them unconditionally and give them guidance and discpline that doesn't involve physical abuse. I strive as their teacher to give them the best education possible and they test exceptionally well in their end of year tests. They have many opportunities to pursue their dreams and ambitions outside of the home. I have one who is a gymnast, one who rides horses, 3 of them do Tae Kwon Do, one who does art classes and so on. I have a great relationship with all of our neighbors (we live on a very socially active cul-de-sac)-- they often joke that they wish I'd start up a school on the block so I could teach all of the cul-de-sac kids. I have NO reason to be worried about CPS paying me a visit. In the unlikely event that they did, I'd have no problem letting them hang out with us, watch us do school, interact with my kids-- hell, they could spend a week with us if they so desired because I have absolutely NOTHING to hide!!! Why on earth I'd need this organization is a mystery to me and I agree with all of you-- if you think that spending money on this joke of a group is a wise investment, you really need to evaluate your parenting and stop doing whatever it is that you are afraid the authorities would come down on you for. It's that simple.

[justlurking]

Gotta get this out of my system: not everyone who works in investigations or casework for CPS is a social worker (just as not all social workers work in child welfare!). Social workers have degrees in social work and have passed state licensing tests - in most states, CPS (or DCF, DHS, whatever) workers need only a bachelor's degree - in any discipline - to hold their position. I'm on a single-handed mission to make it common knowledge that "social worker" is a term as exclusive as "nurse" or "doctor." You can't just call yourself one; you have to have the training and the license.

Any good CPS worker will introduce themselves with their badge and/or card, as well as provide information about the allegations and their contact information. In Texas, workers are also required to give out their supervisor's contact info. So none of that is bad advice. And I'm no legal expert, but as far as I know, the warrant business varies state-to-state. In Texas, if parents deny access to their home or children, a warrant is needed. However, refusing access is a big red flag. The worker is likely to go sit in their car at the curb, call their supervisor, and put the process of getting a warrant in motion (especially with families like these - a classic move is to go visit & interview the child at school, because at that point all you need is the child's consent to speak to them, but that's not possible with homeschoolers).

AMEN Diana! I'm currently a licensed social worker (LSW) who is in the process of achieving an LCSW (clinical license). Whenever I tell people I'm a social worker, they automatically ASSUME that I work for CPS--then I have to "educate" them on how things really are. The problem is that NASW does not do a good enough job advocating on the professionalism of the profession. That is why you have CPS workers, who have a bachelors degree in English, thinking its okay to call themselves "social workers". No, you do social work type duties, but you are NOT a social worker. I think its akin to someone who works as a medical technician in a hospital telling people they are a doctor or nurse--that would be unthinkable in that profession!