Joy and Austin (and Gideon) 22: When Nothing Much Happens

[JordynDarby5]

2 hours ago, pandora said:

To me, that's part of what is interesting about the sheer numbers in fundie families- the more kids they have, the greater probability that someone is gonna wanna stray right? Someday a girl from one of these families is going to go into STEM. What then?

Similarly, the more Bates descendants there are, the greater chance that Erin Bates Paine will one day have to sit next to a kid with green hair at Thanksgiving. The horror. 

I hope that kid will be Brooklyn or Carson or both. "What do you think Mom?" 

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, JordynDarby5 said:

I hope that kid will be Brooklyn or Carson or both. "What do you think Mom?" 

I could see it being one of Josie's  (Bates) kids maybe. 

[Pretzel]

 

9 hours ago, JordynDarby5 said:

11 hours ago, pandora said:

To me, that's part of what is interesting about the sheer numbers in fundie families- the more kids they have, the greater probability that someone is gonna wanna stray right? Someday a girl from one of these families is going to go into STEM. What then?

Similarly, the more Bates descendants there are, the greater chance that Erin Bates Paine will one day have to sit next to a kid with green hair at Thanksgiving. The horror. 

I hope that kid will be Brooklyn or Carson or both. "What do you think Mom?" 

Can we please take a moment and remember that Erin was 17 (IIRC) at the time she made that green hair comment? She was a sheltered fundie girl who had not been exposed to the outside world much. Their beliefs tell them that non ATI/IBLP or affiliated people are "wolves" they need to protect themselves from, so imagining having to spend time with non-fundies in a secular education setting probably scared the crap out of anxious young Erin. I am not justifying the degree of ignorance apparent in her comment, but I can definitely imagine how that came to be, having grown up in a sheltered Bates environment where fear of the secular world was the daily bread.

In Erin's young teenage mind, a person with green hair obviously personified sin and was proof that said person was not living under her parent's umbrella of protection and was certainly not following the Lord's word. Cause we all know the 11th commandment says: Thou shalt not dye thy hair a wondrous color, nor sit near a man who dyeth his hair green. 

In all seriousness, I'm just glad the ignorant shit I said at 17 wasn't recorded and then aired on national TV (at least, that is what I hope) and remembered forever. lol 

[Lizzybet]

On 3/24/2018 at 8:07 PM, AnnEggBlandHer? said:

This is my BEC comment for the week. I hate when people put tiny babies in clothes like what Gideon is wearing for that picture. He’s only a month old! He should be in soft comfy cozy sleepers, not bulky looking jeans or...are they baby cargo pants? I don’t even know.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. Though if you are BEC, I’m right there with you. It looks so uncomfortable for a soft, little baby’s body.

Hoping it was just for the photo (even then, why?)

[justoneoftwo]

2 hours ago, Lizzybet said:

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable. Though if you are BEC, I’m right there with you. It looks so uncomfortable for a soft, little baby’s body.

Hoping it was just for the photo (even then, why?)

I hope it isn't actually uncomfortable but I do that type of thing too.  When LO was a baby he had a suit and tux onesie, and I put him in them more than needed.  It was super cute, and I thought "well I won't be able to make him dress up for very long" (outside of weddings or formal events) so I took advantage.  I will say he didn't seem to care.  Now he is almost 2 and picks his own cloths, but I do push the suit once in a while.

[pandora]

7 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Can we please take a moment and remember that Erin was 17 (IIRC) at the time she made that green hair comment? She was a sheltered fundie girl who had not been exposed to the outside world much. Their beliefs tell them that non ATI/IBLP or affiliated people are "wolves" they need to protect themselves from, so imagining having to spend time with non-fundies in a secular education setting probably scared the crap out of anxious young Erin. I am not justifying the degree of ignorance apparent in her comment, but I can definitely imagine how that came to be, having grown up in a sheltered Bates environment where fear of the secular world was the daily bread.

Oh yes, completely!! To me part of why that comment is funny and worth remembering is because it's something that I can totally see playing out in a pretty innocuous way. In high school I had pink streaks for a while- my extended family is pretty large and the number of times someone has held a prejudicial belief about people who do/wear x and had it challenged by someone in our family then doing/wearing that thing (tattoos, fun hair color, gauges), and ended up changing their mind (maybe they'd never dye their hair green personally, but they no longer look down on people who do) is too many to count. Thanksgiving tables can be places of growth!  It's something I hope for for the fundie families talked about here (and obviously about more serious subjects than external appearance as well, but a lot of times these ones can be easier).

[L1o2u3]

You don't even need to be fundie to be surprised about something like that. My sister shocked the whole family by getting dreadlocks  I'm still getting used to that, 6 months later  

[FundaMental]

If any kid is going to go into STEM and leave fundie-dom, I hope it's Jordyn. Johannah is already fully on her way to being indoctrinated, Jennifer sort of follows along in the hope that things will work out, and Josie gets all the attention for being the little miracle child. Jordyn looks really uncomfortable and out of place in a lot of the photos I've seen. I feel like her lack of attention growing up could lead to her wanting to break away a bit.

To be honest, I can't see any of the Duggars having had good enough education to pursue something like Science or Technology. Even if they might want to, their dining room table education surely can't compensate for a government curriculum based education, and they just wouldn't have the knowledge to attend a regular college. (That rhymed - I'm a poet, and I didn't even know it!)

[BabyBottlePop]

Even though she's the youngest, I don't think Josie will stray because she gets attention being the miracle child and things are probably better for her than one of the lost girls. 

[pandora]

3 hours ago, FundaMental said:

If any kid is going to go into STEM and leave fundie-dom, I hope it's Jordyn. Johannah is already fully on her way to being indoctrinated, Jennifer sort of follows along in the hope that things will work out, and Josie gets all the attention for being the little miracle child. Jordyn looks really uncomfortable and out of place in a lot of the photos I've seen. I feel like her lack of attention growing up could lead to her wanting to break away a bit.

I'm always interested in people's musings on stuff like this. I just think such tiny snippets of their lives are shown (which is good! childhood is not intended to be a televised endeavor) that we really can't have any idea. For every reason given that one of the kids is going to stay or go I think there's probably a different way of framing it that would see them going in the opposite direction. Like Josie staying in fundamentalism because she gets a lot of attention- maybe she feels guilt about being favored and pressure to be perfect as the "miracle"? Not saying either is true, just that I really don't know.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

Statistically speaking, 1 or 2 of the children will break completely away from the family eventually, and a few will wander slightly off path, a few more will wander slightly further off path, but most of them will stay with in the land of evangelical fundy Christian of some flavor or another.  Who those kids (or now adults) will be we have no way of knowing at this point.  I won't be shocked to hear in 10 years that Derrick has left Jill and the church because he has been fighting his true self and he's really a beatnik Hippie who was meant to roam the earth a single irresponsible male, Or that Jackson said fuck this shit I'm joining a Vegas Stage show.  I have no idea I'm just being stupid here, but this family will not be this intact in 10 years time, Bates either, with that many kids some of them WILL splinter in some way.

 

[viii]

There's too many of them for one NOT to stray away, imo. 

[FundaMental]

1 hour ago, pandora said:

I'm always interested in people's musings on stuff like this. I just think such tiny snippets of their lives are shown (which is good! childhood is not intended to be a televised endeavor) that we really can't have any idea. For every reason given that one of the kids is going to stay or go I think there's probably a different way of framing it that would see them going in the opposite direction. Like Josie staying in fundamentalism because she gets a lot of attention- maybe she feels guilt about being favored and pressure to be perfect as the "miracle"? Not saying either is true, just that I really don't know.

Of course none of us can fully know what's happening - Jordyn could be the happiest child in the family. But the way the family dynamic is presented and the close age gap between Josie and Jordyn gives us a reasonable idea about how much attention Jordyn gets. Those little girls have been raised primarily by their siblings since they were babies, and now those girls have left, they're given back to Michelle or Jana. The loss of their 'other mother' would have hit a few of them hard, I can imagine. 

Josie could completely feel guilty about it, or she could embrace it, since she got the most love and attention from Michelle and as a result might feel like her upbringing was flawless. The other kids have reasons to hate fundamentalism (although most of them drank the koolaid) but Josie has received positive attention from day one. I feel like she doesn't have a lot of reasons to want to leave, but we'll see how everything plays out. I'm excited yet disappointed for the future's of all of the girls - I just hope they can all find something that makes them happy.

[justoneoftwo]

7 minutes ago, FundaMental said:

Of course none of us can fully know what's happening - Jordyn could be the happiest child in the family. But the way he family dynamic is presented and the close age gap between Josie and Jordyn gives us a reasonable idea about how much attention Jordyn gets. Those little girls have been raised primarily by their siblings since they were babies, and now those girls have left, they're given back to Michelle or Jana. The loss of their 'other mother' would have hit a few of them hard, I can imagine. 

Josie could completely feel guilty about it, or she could embrace it, since she got the most love and attention from Michelle and as a result might feel like her upbringing was flawless. The other kids have reasons to hate fundamentalism (although most of them drank the koolaid) but Josie has received positive attention from day one. I feel like she doesn't have a lot of reasons to want to leave, but we'll see how everything plays out. I'm excited yet disappointed for the future's of all of the girls - I just hope they can all find something that makes them happy.

I think there is a chance she will resent being a miracle child.  She will resent when she suddenly must be an adult maiden or whatever and goes from being perfect for living to being expected to be like Jill.  I actually think that could cause her to snap, even if she thinks her childhood now is great.

[Alice in Fundieland]

I can see why Jordyn might stray from fundiedom, but I can also see her thinking if she is the perfect fundie daughter, she might finally get some recognition from her parents. It will be interesting to see what happens as the youngest Duggars grow up. I hope they all find true happiness.

[thinandfit]

On 19/03/2018 at 2:43 AM, Kangaroo said:

Gideon's face summing up how many here feel

Anyone else think he's copying his Grandmother MEchelle and giving his father the adoring look he deserves?

[mollysmom]

3 minutes ago, Alice in Fundieland said:

I can see why Jordyn might stray from fundiedom, but I can also see her thinking if she is the perfect fundie daughter, she might finally get some recognition from her parents. It will be interesting to see what happens as the youngest Duggars grow up. I hope they all find true happiness.

Take it from me Jordan! It doesn't work and it's NOT worth it!! I tried for 37 years. 

 

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, mollysmom said:

Take it from me Jordan! It doesn't work and it's NOT worth it!! I tried for 37 years. 

 

lets talk Jennifer she seems to hate the camera's I think if anyone leaves and lives a private life it will be here. 

[TheMustardCardigan]

5 hours ago, FundaMental said:

If any kid is going to go into STEM and leave fundie-dom, I hope it's Jordyn. Johannah is already fully on her way to being indoctrinated, Jennifer sort of follows along in the hope that things will work out, and Josie gets all the attention for being the little miracle child. Jordyn looks really uncomfortable and out of place in a lot of the photos I've seen. I feel like her lack of attention growing up could lead to her wanting to break away a bit.

I think if anyone is likely to break away it's one of the younger kids of the 19, I agree. I think it may be more likely to be a Lost Boy because it seems like the Duggars do less in keeping track of their boys in some ways... They're given more relatively more independence, whatever the Duggar child version of independence really is.

I'm not getting my hopes up though, people used to call Joy "Joyless Anna" around here and thought she'd maybe be one to break away, was kind of overlooked as the only girl in a streak of Duggar boys and left out of the clique of the four oldest girls. And I mean now look at her, she's super into the meek fundie wife thing. 

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

5 hours ago, viii said:

There's too many of them for one NOT to stray away, imo. 

Well, people keep hoping that one of the Arndt manboys will break free, and so far, they're all still "safe at home". 

[Feminist_Defrauder91]

Jumping in late to this discussion to say that since I'm a law nerd and an ebil Catholic who doesn't have the Bible memorized, the first thing I thought of when I saw the name "Gideon" wasn't the Bible, it was the Supreme Court case Gideon v. Wainwright.  The case established the right to counsel at government expense for indigent criminal defendants.  Granted Gideon was a last name in that case but still, I wonder what Joy and Austin think about that? 

[AliceInFundyland]

If either of them can adequately explain the Supreme Court or what indigent means I'd be surprised.

[tabitha2]

Everyone was eager/expectant  for Jinger to rebel, maybe even run off on her 18th birthday. Nupe. Then certainly Joy Anna was going to right? Right??!  Nada. And then certainly at Long last feisty Johanna was going to be the last best hope for rebellion in ranks. Well that’s not looking very promising. 

I think we will see all that but it will be a granddaughter and they will be long out of the public eye and all the media interest will be long gone. 

[LacyMay]

Sometimes I wonder if Joy is genuinely super into it or if she's just given up and accepted her fate and decided to try and make the best of it. 

I hope I'm not treading on too thin of ice here, but as for Josie... 
*IF* she has any learning or developmental difficulties from how premature she was and *IF* the Duggars didn't seek any additional support for her (tutoring, speech therapy, occupational therapy etc) I wonder if once she gets older she might resent them for that. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

10 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Everyone was eager/expectant  for Jinger to rebel, maybe even run off on her 18th birthday. Nupe. Then certainly Joy Anna was going to right? Right??!  Nada. And then certainly at Long last feisty Johanna was going to be the last best hope for rebellion in ranks. Well that’s not looking very promising. 

I think we will see all that but it will be a granddaughter and they will be long out of the public eye and all the media interest will be long gone. 

I think Jinger did rebel. she married Jeremy who honestly I don't think would have been JIm Bob's first pick i have more of a feeling she told him I want him. I think Jeremy was the first to get the questionnaire. Derick and Ben seem to have done one but not until after everything Jeremy got one before he could even court Jinger. Jinger wore pants which opened the door for her sisters and unlike her sisters lives far enough away and told her family stay away for six months.