Dillards 49: Dull Dillards Dulling

[CorruptionInc.]

On 20/01/2018 at 4:37 PM, Crazy Enough to Join said:

Personally I think Jill's nose ring and pants and henna was a way to get attention from her family and social media since she knows she won't be able to get attention by having the most pregnancies of any Duggar daughter. And in the Duggar family, that is how you get attention, by being pregnant. 

Any publicity is better than none at all!

 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

5 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I don't know if I read that book, but I have read so many bios of the Tudors in addition to fictional accounts (Jean Plaidy books a favorite).

 

I think Mary would have been successful if she would have laid off the obsession of Catholicism. Elizabeth, while Protestant, kid of turned a blind eye as much as she could to it. I also think Mary would have been better off with an English husband or none at all. Phillip was a poor choice.

Looking at the preview, it does look good and it's $2.93 cdn for the kindle version. I must get mine sorted out.

Poor Mary really wanted to return to the England where she was happiest, her youth. She didn't really understand just how far her people had become Protestant while she'd been sequestered during her brother's brief reign. I believe Mary thought that every-one felt the same way as she did that once Catholic Mass was being said and all the old rites were back, she'd be the queen she was brought up to be.

Mary really, really wanted to marry the idealised Philip. The son of her cousin who had been a constant support while her mother was alive and though his support had waned over the intervening years, he was still powerful enough a presence to mitigate the worst ill treatment of Mary. She expected  a love match like her parent's had. Philip and Charles saw it as a chance to get more power and influence.

 

The Tudor person I think got the worst deal was Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford. She's been cast as the perfidious lying liar who lied and help to condemn her husband and sister-in-law to death. That makes it so much easier for outsiders to think that she was the manipulator behind Kathryn Howard and lead her to her death as well.

 

Modern literature portrays Jane as almost a pantomime villain. Some writers seem to relish making her so cartoonishly evil it's sad.

 

 

 

[VelociRapture]

37 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

Looking at the preview, it does look good and it's $2.93 cdn for the kindle version. I must get mine sorted out.

Poor Mary really wanted to return to the England where she was happiest, her youth. She didn't really understand just how far her people had become Protestant while she'd been sequestered during her brother's brief reign. I believe Mary thought that every-one felt the same way as she did that once Catholic Mass was being said and all the old rites were back, she'd be the queen she was brought up to be.

Mary really, really wanted to marry the idealised Philip. The son of her cousin who had been a constant support while her mother was alive and though his support had waned over the intervening years, he was still powerful enough a presence to mitigate the worst ill treatment of Mary. She expected  a love match like her parent's had. Philip and Charles saw it as a chance to get more power and influence.

 

The Tudor person I think got the worst deal was Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford. She's been cast as the perfidious lying liar who lied and help to condemn her husband and sister-in-law to death. That makes it so much easier for outsiders to think that she was the manipulator behind Kathryn Howard and lead her to her death as well.

 

Modern literature portrays Jane as almost a pantomime villain. Some writers seem to relish making her so cartoonishly evil it's sad.

 

 

 

I feel like this link is a pretty fair assessment of Jane Parker:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theanneboleynfiles.com/jane-boleyn-and-the-fall-of-anne-boleyn/amp/

What little I know of Jane comes mainly from historical fiction and I know enough to doubt Philippa Gregory’s assessments in her fiction. I agree with the writer of that link that it's most likely that a very scared young woman simply answered questions to the best of her ability under immense pressure. For doing so, she became the perfect scapegoat to absolve the King (and Cromwell) of the crime of executing his innocent wife and five innocent men. 

As far as her involvement in Catherine Howard's downfall, I have no idea what she may have known or done. Someone had to have been helping Catherine out though because it would have been very difficult for a Queen to have an affair when she was watched so closely by so many. It’s possible Jane was a completely innocent victim, but it’s also possible she had some role to play in it all as well. Either way, History has done her a massive disservice in portraying her in such a one-dimensional manner and I wish more authors showed a bit more creativity and intellectual curiosity when writing about her.

(I also know it’s difficult to give a perfect assessment of any of these historical figures given how much time has passed and the fact that primary sources may be lacking. It’d be nice to see someone wrote a well-done novel where she isn’t depicted as a villain like she normally is.) 

ETA: And I agree with what you said about Mary. She was the first Tudor I was introduced to through a (generally kind) young reader novel called, “Mary, Bloody Mary.” I’ve always had a soft spot for her because she had such a horrible adolescence and had all her hopes for a happy life dashed during her brief reign and marriage. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I have to chime in on all the English history discussion. I've started studying for my "Life in the UK" tests that I'll have to take when DH and I move back to England and I start my citizenship process - these discussions have helped me answer at least some  of the questions correctly. lol

[freedom_for_all]

1 hour ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

Looking at the preview, it does look good and it's $2.93 cdn for the kindle version. I must get mine sorted out.

Poor Mary really wanted to return to the England where she was happiest, her youth. She didn't really understand just how far her people had become Protestant while she'd been sequestered during her brother's brief reign. I believe Mary thought that every-one felt the same way as she did that once Catholic Mass was being said and all the old rites were back, she'd be the queen she was brought up to be.

Mary really, really wanted to marry the idealised Philip. The son of her cousin who had been a constant support while her mother was alive and though his support had waned over the intervening years, he was still powerful enough a presence to mitigate the worst ill treatment of Mary. She expected  a love match like her parent's had. Philip and Charles saw it as a chance to get more power and influence.

 

The Tudor person I think got the worst deal was Jane Boleyn, Lady Rochford. She's been cast as the perfidious lying liar who lied and help to condemn her husband and sister-in-law to death. That makes it so much easier for outsiders to think that she was the manipulator behind Kathryn Howard and lead her to her death as well.

 

Modern literature portrays Jane as almost a pantomime villain. Some writers seem to relish making her so cartoonishly evil it's sad.

 

 

 

One book I like on Jane Boleyn is by Julia Fox called Jane Boleyn. She has to make a lot of suppositions since we don’t have all that much on Jane but it is a very good book. I also really like her book Sister Queens which parallels the lives of Catherine of Aragon and her sister Juana of Castile. Plus she does great bibliography notes. I’m a major fan.

 

[DancingPhalanges]

47 minutes ago, freedom_for_all said:

One book I like on Jane Boleyn is by Julia Fox called Jane Boleyn. She has to make a lot of suppositions since we don’t have all that much on Jane but it is a very good book. I also really like her book Sister Queens which parallels the lives of Catherine of Aragon and her sister Juana of Castile. Plus she does great bibliography notes. I’m a major fan.

 

Ooh thanks! I read Julia Fox's book on Jane years ago and remember liking it. I just put Sister Queens in my Amazon Cart along with the biography on Lady Hyegyong rec'd upthread. I just need time, more time. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

57 minutes ago, freedom_for_all said:

One book I like on Jane Boleyn is by Julia Fox called Jane Boleyn. She has to make a lot of suppositions since we don’t have all that much on Jane but it is a very good book. I also really like her book Sister Queens which parallels the lives of Catherine of Aragon and her sister Juana of Castile. Plus she does great bibliography notes. I’m a major fan.

 

That book was one of the turning points for me. I'd rather swallowed the whole Bitch Queen Jane myth and was rather shocked that Jane was not as bad as I'd been led to believe. I haven't read Sister Queens though it is on my rather long wish list.

I bought The Raven's Widow last year but managed to misplace all my Christmas pressies and I refuse to buy it again.

 

Claire Ridgway of the Anne Boleyn  Files co-wrote a biography of George Boleyn which is worth the read.

[nst]

3 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Any publicity is better than none at all!

 

but again why does she need publicity when she is off the show? It's not like she is on the show...so she is now trying to be different to get attention from the family...because of her own family....who seems to be the one who got her kicked off the show. ....

[acheronbeach]

7 minutes ago, nst said:

but again why does she need publicity when she is off the show? It's not like she is on the show...so she is now trying to be different to get attention from the family...because of her own family....who seems to be the one who got her kicked off the show. ....

I don't think Derick or Jill think much about why - in anything.  But Jill's grown up in the public eye, and I get the sense is normal to her now; not only that,  she seems to really want to be liked.  Derick, OTOH, is an entitled attention whore.  I think they both probably seek out attention for very different reasons.  

[Sky with diamonds]

On 1/20/2018 at 6:19 PM, Markie said:

I like how even Derick is questioning his in-laws praise and adoration of little Sam. 

Is that how he questions the Duggars? I'd love to be a fly on the wall with the serious talks, especially after he is not on the show anymore.

[Jenn The Heathen]

Picked up a little light reading today...

[grandmadugger]

3 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

I don't think Derick or Jill think much about why - in anything.  But Jill's grown up in the public eye, and I get the sense is normal to her now; not only that,  she seems to really want to be liked.  Derick, OTOH, is an entitled attention whore.  I think they both probably seek out attention for very different reasons.  

Maybe Jill will start a blog with all her recipes and tips for dealing with two boys. 

[HarleyQuinn]

Derick looks like he just wandered into that mug photo. Like the other three were friends and wanted to be together and they're just tolerating him.

(side note, I can't stop chuckling over my new user name along with my avatar. it fits so perfectly)

[LurkerOverThePond]

3 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Maybe Jill will start a blog with all her recipes and tips for dealing with two boys. 

I can see all her recipes already: soul-winning bananabread, and rice for three (or so). And for training kids: swaddle them until kindergarten.

[Pete Pickles]

On 1/19/2018 at 3:10 PM, Crazy Enough to Join said:

 

Personally,  I think Jeremy controls Jinger every move even to include number of children he allows her and treats her like a child. You may like Jinger's new persona, but she didn't choose it, Jeremy did. Jinger is still not free, imo.  (The fact that Jeremy chose Ben as a friend, a younger and compliant person, makes me think Jeremy like to be the alpha in all his relationships.)

 

I'm a few pages behind on this thread but I saw you got some negative feedback on this post and wanted to chime in.  This is THE FREAKIN TRUTH.  Jeremy gives me so many controlling vibes I can't even ignore it.  His wedding episode was so telling.  He was even bossy toward his groomsmen.  I wanted to write that off as nerves, but then the way he spoke to Jinger in the honeymoon episode struck me, the hot coffee incident, driving the car on foreign roads and his handling of her concern there, and various other little peaks into his personality have signaled it again.  (Sorry I'm short on specifics.  I haven't watched the show lately but I'm sure I'll see more in the new season.)  I don't think he's intentionally controlling and I'm also not one who thinks he plucked meek little Jinger up specifically for the purpose of controlling her, but I do think a malleable wife suits him and I'm certain there's something to his having a real job and not living near the TTH.  (And good for him with that.  I'm glad he's able to be a provider to his growing brood, although I bet Jim Bob doesn't love it.)  I hadn't considered his friendship with Ben, but you bring up an interesting point there.  He seems to seek out leadership roles even in his day-to-day life and relationships.  I've always thought he felt superior to Jim Bob and I'm pretty sure he enjoys being Jinger's headship and having that over his FIL, so to speak.  He has been respectful of her family as much as he has to be, but isn't it obvious he feels like he rescued his princess from the crazy?  He definitely seems to love her and she him.  My husband and I are very much in love, but he also gets a bossy streak about him from time to time.  The difference is that I can knock him down a notch when I need to.  I hope Jinger feels so confident if the need should ever arise.  (I would doubt it, but her warning him about the hot coffee was promising.)

Sorry to derail a little bit in the Dillard thread.  I'm still wading through the thread drift to see what kind of snark we have on these memorial scholarships.  (But the drift is fun!!)

[Pete Pickles]

10 hours ago, nst said:

but again why does she need publicity when she is off the show? It's not like she is on the show...so she is now trying to be different to get attention from the family...because of her own family....who seems to be the one who got her kicked off the show. ....

I can't tell if you're actually trying to make a point in reminding us 19 times and counting that DERICK is no longer FEATURED on the show, or if it's a joke.  For all we know, Jill may still be prominent and Derick may still be lingering.  (Probably not, but based on the TLC statement, we don't know for sure yet.)

Even if she's off the show, why would she not want to maintain her public persona?  It's part of her "ministry" and TLC doesn't get to control her social media presence or force people to stop following and paying attention.  If she has been removed from the show, should she just cease to exist or crawl into a corner somewhere?  Even Josh didn't do that.

[SapphireSlytherin]

44 minutes ago, Pete Pickles said:

point in reminding us 19 times and counting that DERICK is no longer FEATURED on the show, or if it's a joke.  For all we know, Jill may still be prominent and Derick may still be lingering. 

Derick HIMSELF has said neither he nor Jill will be on the show anymore.

[SeekingAdventure]

well, i guess it is a good thing it was mugs.. which are good for drinking something, folks! remember that, Mugs are for drinking something and not, let's say, using them to smash somebodys phone or computer?

I think it's a good think C3 doesn't have branded toilet paper (yet) - 'Get yourself some C3 toilet paper - it's good for wiping something?'. Or maybe spoons. Multiple uses.. Eating, educating your kids.. How did he ever get into college? seriously.

 

I am not very familiar with Tudors etc and I was just browsing through here, but Sissi. I love it. I was 14 when I first saw the musical in Austria, I pretty much knew the soundtrack off by heart before that, and it totally made me a geek, reading about everything connected to Sissi and Rudolf etc.. It's funny sometimes, what brings you to educate yourself in something...

[Screamapillar]

It's crazy to think that less than 4 years ago Jill's wedding to Derick was a ratings boom for TLC and now, due to Derick's antics, the couple is not even on the network anymore.

Hell will freeze over 5 times before Jill leaves Derick. (Because of the covenant marriage that she agreed to with a man-child whom she'd only spent minimal, chaperoned time with). Depressingly, she's probably actually happy with him, because what else does she know?

[Italiangirl]

as history books, i love the Ken Follet series "word without end" I'm currently rewatching the tv series made from the book and enjoy it.

Derwill and the mugs... I've lost my word to describe him urgh, the change he made in 4 years from what seems a good college-educated man, with an actual job, who just searches a prayer partner and ended to marry one of the daughters of him to the duce he is now

[Meggo]

9 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Derick looks like he just wandered into that mug photo. Like the other three were friends and wanted to be together and they're just tolerating him.

(side note, I can't stop chuckling over my new user name along with my avatar. it fits so perfectly)

I have spent a lot of time lately looking through stock photos and that's what it looked like to me! Like he wandered into a stock photo shoot about coffee mugs!

[Glasgowghirl]

While Derick says both him and Jill will no longer appear on the show, I can see Jill and the boys going back on it at some point. Derick may realise that they still need TLC cash coming in, either that or he will need a proper job. His grifting won't last for ever.

[nst]

1 hour ago, Screamapillar said:

It's crazy to think that less than 4 years ago Jill's wedding to Derick was a ratings boom for TLC and now, due to Derick's antics, the couple is not even on the network anymore.

 

now does it surprise anyone that I have been deleting pictures of Derick from my computer.. and you maybe wondering why i even had them...i think it was during the time I was sent to the prayer closet for a year....i can laugh about now ROFL during Izzy birth wait. 

deleting is so good...but the wedding week was so much fun

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Jill will be like Michelle, trying to nonchalantly insert herself into shots.

[nst]

1 hour ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Jill will be like Michelle, trying to nonchalantly insert herself into shots.

but we can make a happy dance she won't be getting paid for it. ?