Culture of Life

[NakedKnees]

9 hours ago, FakePigtails said:

I prefer the term Fertility Awareness Method as used in Taking Charge of Your Fertility. The term natural is so loaded as it is, I say leave that to the Catholic version with no backup contraception, pulling out, or non-PIV orgasms. It makes it more clear too since the latter is such a departure from what most people would ever consider committing to.

I was going to bring this up! I'm a FAM user and in my experience, the FAM vs NFP terminology difference is often helpful to determining folks' *ahem* "motives" (read: whether they're a anti-woman zealot or not). I also realize there are clearly a number of intelligent NFP users who use that term on this thread, so my apologies if this view is offensive. I just think it's an important distinction and tendency that I'd appreciate non-users to learn.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already. True: it sometimes bums me out that people shit on FAM so much, as if it can't be combined with condoms, pulling out, the pill, just about anything. But at the same time, I GET IT that it doesn't work for tons of people for tons of reasons. I also GET IT that NFP is used in some communities to obsessively maintain control over women and force them to accept pregnancy and motherhood against their wishes. My hurt feelings absolutely take a back seat compared with that.

Also, Scarleteen is geared at teenagers, who generally should not be practicing FAM. It might be cool to educate teens on their fertility symptoms from a biological perspective, but it really shouldn't be recommended for birth control in most cases until your mid-twenties at the earliest.

[FakePigtails]

1 hour ago, NakedKnees said:

I was going to bring this up! I'm a FAM user and in my experience, the FAM vs NFP terminology difference is often helpful to determining folks' *ahem* "motives" (read: whether they're a anti-woman zealot or not). I also realize there are clearly a number of intelligent NFP users who use that term on this thread, so my apologies if this view is offensive. I just think it's an important distinction and tendency that I'd appreciate non-users to learn.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already. True: it sometimes bums me out that people shit on FAM so much, as if it can't be combined with condoms, pulling out, the pill, just about anything. But at the same time, I GET IT that it doesn't work for tons of people for tons of reasons. I also GET IT that NFP is used in some communities to obsessively maintain control over women and force them to accept pregnancy and motherhood against their wishes. My hurt feelings absolutely take a back seat compared with that.

Also, Scarleteen is geared at teenagers, who generally should not be practicing FAM. It might be cool to educate teens on their fertility symptoms from a biological perspective, but it really shouldn't be recommended for birth control in most cases until your mid-twenties at the earliest.

You said this all so much more eloquently than I did! I think the whole thing with FAM is that it's whole "philosophy" of sorts is to combine it with other methods if desired, so anyone shitting on it is being ignorant or ridiculous. I'd honestly be more surprised if a FAM user only used abstinence during fertile periods.

I do think the Scarleteen description is ridiculous - speculums, really? Planned Parenthood seems to have much better information on it.

[EowynW]

I've had a really terrible, stressful week and was down with brain fog, when I was talking about NFP I actually did mean FAM. Prolly tmi but We do combine FAM with condom + spermicide because we want to be extra careful and honestly, due to how exhausting and Mr EW's job is, we don't always get the luxury of being able to skip the fertile window and then pick back up when needed, so the protection carries us through during that window should we find ourselves with the time and energy for it because we need that extra closeness to keep us going. Hard stage for us right now I guess. 

 

my sister is sucessfully using FAM with a femcap and they do abstain, because they can easily pick back up after, literally any day or time of day they want, because BIL is a horndog with easy job and hours. 

[Foudeb]

I like FAM much better than NFP too, I just said NFP because the acronym had been mentioned earlier.

[Lurky]

I'm gay, so birth control isn't a thing in my life, but...  Please could someone explain how FAM is combined with condoms + spermicide?  Isn't that just using condoms?  Or is it that you have unprotected sex some times in the month and use condoms for eg 2 weeks, just to be sure/so you can keep having sex in the most fertile times?  Genuinely interested, thank you! 

[EowynW]

17 minutes ago, Lurky said:

I'm gay, so birth control isn't a thing in my life, but...  Please could someone explain how FAM is combined with condoms + spermicide?  Isn't that just using condoms?  Or is it that you have unprotected sex some times in the month and use condoms for eg 2 weeks, just to be sure/so you can keep having sex in the most fertile times?  Genuinely interested, thank you! 

Well for me it's: 

1 - you are aware of what's going on in your body so you can plan your lovemaking strategy more effectively for you are trying to conceive or not. 

2- know when it's safe to go without anything  

3- also know when you need protection should you just desperately want to connect and have sex during your fertile period. 

Honestly I just like being equipped  with the knowledge of what's happening at what times. If life was a bit different for us right now we could go pure FAM but we can't so we combine when we need to. 

 

 

[Lurky]

@EowynW Thanks!  That makes sense to me - wasn't at all meant critically, just interested

[GeoBQn]

I was talking with a friend who is a member of the Friends of Captain Awkward Forum.  There has been a real update from the Letter Writer.  She went to a clinic and found out the Mirena was a lot less expensive than she thought it would be. She talked with her husband about her getting it, and he accepted her decision. It sounds like the situation resolved as best as it could.

[FakePigtails]

2 hours ago, Lurky said:

I'm gay, so birth control isn't a thing in my life, but...  Please could someone explain how FAM is combined with condoms + spermicide?  Isn't that just using condoms?  Or is it that you have unprotected sex some times in the month and use condoms for eg 2 weeks, just to be sure/so you can keep having sex in the most fertile times?  Genuinely interested, thank you! 

In addition to what @EowynW said, it could also mean something like using condoms or another barrier method throughout each cycle and abstaining, pulling out, or adding a second barrier method during the most fertile days. 

[NakedKnees]

7 hours ago, Lurky said:

I'm gay, so birth control isn't a thing in my life, but...  Please could someone explain how FAM is combined with condoms + spermicide?  Isn't that just using condoms?  Or is it that you have unprotected sex some times in the month and use condoms for eg 2 weeks, just to be sure/so you can keep having sex in the most fertile times?  Genuinely interested, thank you! 

That's close to what I do. I use nothing for half my cycle, and a mix of pulling out and condoms the other half. We used to use only condoms the other half, now we use them about a week and pull out a few days before and after that week. It sounds weirdly complicated, but it's developed in a way that works for us over the course of a few years. 

I'm glad that writer got an IUD maybe her husband had been privately questioning his choices over the last few weeks/months.

[Vex]

What does it matter if CO doesn't believe in NFP? Why be so fixated on extolling its virtues? Jesus Christ, 'she's just not doing it right' is very presumptuous and judgemental. You don't know that. It's not a perfect method even if you do it 'perfectly'. Why do you assume she fucked up, and how is her making a mistake (if she even did) an issue of contention? What's with the passionate defense of your preferred method? Nobody's here hotly defending the pill or condoms or any other BC method because it works so well for them.

Of course her lying to him is not a good thing, but ultimately he's forcing her into a corner and she has to protect herself. It's not like he wants more kids and she's lying about her fertility. He is the one forcing the issue by virtue of his belief that his religion is more important than her bodily autonomy.

Thankfully he agreed to her use of an IUD but it still sucks she essentially needed his blessing. I'd absolutely take my husband's feelings into account but ultimately it's my body, my choice. Luckily we're on the same page about kids and he respects my autonomy.

[L1o2u3]

On 6/9/2017 at 3:46 PM, NakedKnees said:

but it really shouldn't be recommended for birth control in most cases until your mid-twenties at the earlies

This is a myth... you can also use it as a teenager or as a young adult. I know plenty that use NFP/FAM. I was seventeen when I started using NFP/FAM (here in Europe/Germany, the terms NFP and FAM are used more or less interchangeably. so when I talk about NFP, I always include FAM as one of the NFP methods and here, it doesn't say anything about "motives" or "tendencies" at all). Biologically speaking, there's no problem with using NFP/FAM when you're younger. Maybe you mean lifestyle choices (parties, one night stands etc.)? But I don't think there's an age limit for that. 

And NFP can't be combined with the pill  because you don't have a real cycle when you're using the pill. Maybe you could use it to see if you're ovulating (because if you were, the pill would obviously not work), but other than that, it would be completely useless. 

In case that this is still unclear... I DON'T think that anybody HAS to use NFP/FAM and I totally ACCEPT every other choice of birth control methods. I am just tired of all the myths surrounding not only, but especially NFP/FAM (and other birth control methods) when it comes to safety, how to use it etc. And by saying that you can use NFP/FAM as a young person, I do not mean that anybody, regardless of her age, HAS to use it. I think everybody should use the method they think is best for them. 

[formergothardite]

@L1o2u3 did you actually write that response to Captain Awkward and if you didn't, do you actually agree with it? 

[Foudeb]

On 10/06/2017 at 10:54 PM, Lurky said:

I'm gay, so birth control isn't a thing in my life, but...  Please could someone explain how FAM is combined with condoms + spermicide?  Isn't that just using condoms?  Or is it that you have unprotected sex some times in the month and use condoms for eg 2 weeks, just to be sure/so you can keep having sex in the most fertile times?  Genuinely interested, thank you! 

I started because I was so afraid of getting pregnant I wanted a belt AND garters - so it was condoms all the time + a diaphragm when the risks were higher.  (I was young and paranoid).

Now I'm older, though not much wiser, and more settled in my life, it's just a barrier protection when the time isn't right and nothing when I know for sure it's safe. I'm still a bit paranoid though so if there is the slightest doubt in my mind, condoms it is. So I guess it's fair to call it using condoms rather than using FAM. But there is something empowering, to me, in knowing what my body is doing. I think I enjoy sex more when I have that element of control on it as well (I'm the one who'll make the call on what protection to use). I guess it feels like I'm in charge of my fertility, a feeling that I don't think I'd have if I used medication. I think this is what the letter-writer felt as well, that she needed an IUD to feel in charge of her body and sexuality. Different means, same end.

 

[NotQuiteMotY]

I'm glad she and her husband reached an accommodation. It would suck for her to have to keep it secret, though if her options were secret vs. using a method that isn't working for them, yay secrets.

I'm amazed at how contentious the NFP/FAM thing is. I looked at FAM as a form of birth control before I got married and decided that it probably wouldn't work for me. I didn't realize there was this much debate about a method that's just like every other methods: imperfect use common, some failures even with perfect use, works great for others. 

[EowynW]

Some methods have people riding in on The Horse of Truth to set everyone straight more than others.  

as someone who works in the pregnancy/birth field I think everyone needs to decide what works best for them. One method working better for you doesn't mean the rest are bad. 

[Hane]

10 hours ago, EowynW said:

Some methods have people riding in on The Horse of Truth to set everyone straight more than others.  

as someone who works in the pregnancy/birth field I think everyone needs to decide what works best for them. One method working better for you doesn't mean the rest are bad. 

Yep. Hormonal BC (used for either contraception or for menstrual problems) was always a bad fit for me because of side effects, but has been a lifesaver for millions. 

[EowynW]

12 minutes ago, Hane said:

Yep. Hormonal BC (used for either contraception or for menstrual problems) was always a bad fit for me because of side effects, but has been a lifesaver for millions. 

Oh it's a huge no no for me too. I hear you 

[bertnee]

Using FAM sounds like a really bad idea for the majority of young women (ie teen/college years). It obviously does not do anything to protect against STIs, cycles can be more variable when you are younger and there is so much room for user error. Teenagers are more likely than adults to have trouble remembering to take the pill at the same time every day, I can't expect FAM will have good results.

[L1o2u3]

@bertnee Of course, you should not (solely) rely on NFP/FAM if your partners are not tested/you have multiple partners/one night stands etc. I am always shocked when (young) people show little to no awareness at all when it comes to STIs. Many sites concerning NFP/FAM state that it is best used in a monogamous relationship where both partners are tested and faithful (regardless of age) and I wholeheartedly agree to that. 

 

[TatiFish9]

Lying will cause more problems down the line. Sounds like there is some missing info here, anyhow. Why is she so afraid to tell him she plans to use birth control? He may abstain for awhile but eventually he will give into his urges as he has been known to do in the past. If not, their problems are deeper than the Catholic church. And it's those deep seated problems that need to be addressed first.

[lawfulevil]

Problem is... have you ever tried to get someone to address underlying issues that they're not even willing to acknowledge? You might as well take up moving mountains with teaspoons, it'd be more productive/rewarding.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

On 6/12/2017 at 7:05 PM, Hane said:

Yep. Hormonal BC (used for either contraception or for menstrual problems) was always a bad fit for me because of side effects, but has been a lifesaver for millions. 

Same here. Thank goodness the diaphragm still exists. It was also more cost effective for me. (This was years ago. Lowered cost pills from Planned Parenthood were $12 a month, so a year=$144. A diaphragm from a pharmacy was $35 and lasted a year or two as long as my weight didn't change much. Even with adding in a few dollars for a tube of spermicide periodically, it was still cheaper.) I'm glad so many choices exist. No single option could ever work best for everyone.

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

Same here. Thank goodness the diaphragm still exists. It was also more cost effective for me. (This was years ago. Lowered cost pills from Planned Parenthood were $12 a month, so a year=$144. A diaphragm from a pharmacy was $35 and lasted a year or two as long as my weight didn't change much. Even with adding in a few dollars for a tube of spermicide periodically, it was still cheaper.) I'm glad so many choices exist. No single option could ever work best for everyone.

Did you like your diaphragm? I have a fem cap but still haven't quite mastered it yet. 

[L1o2u3]

I have a diaphragm too. I think it's okay  I figured out how to insert it rather quickly and it doesn't irritate or press on my bladder (I know that some people have these problems). My boyfriend is also okay with it, although sometimes he can feel it (in a way that makes sex uncomfortable for  him) and sometimes he can't. Maybe dependent on where my cervix is in the cycle? Or position? I'm not sure. 

One other thing that is a little annyoing is that you have to keep it inside the vagina for 6-8 hours after intercourse and the spermicide gel is slowly seeping out  so you always need a small pad. I also always check the position after inserting it, after intercourse and when I remove it to make sure it stayed in place. 

We use the diaphragm in my fertile days when we don't feel like using condoms. 

Overall, well, it's okay. I'm glad that we can combine it with other options (condoms, unprotected intercourse on the days that aren't fertile. non-penetrative sex or abstinence on days that are, NFP/FAM) because I wouldn't want to use it everytime that I have sex. But once or twice a cycle is okay for me and my partner. And everyone that wants to get a diaphragm should of course think of the fact that the Pearl Index can be as high as 20  (comparison: the one for condoms is 12, symptothermal NFP 2,3, birth control pill 0,9, Source https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl-Index#cite_note-profamilia-1 These numbers are from ProFamilia and the ones that are usually quoted in Germany, which is where I live) 

What I really like is that at the German version of Planned Parenthood, ProFamilia, you can get counseling on how to find the right diaphragm and they even let you try some (of course cleaned!) for a few hours in exchange for a tip (about 15-20€ is what I've heard). Maybe they do that in the US, too? I would really recommend that, if you can afford it, so you can be sure that you're wearing the right size and you can decide whether you like the feeling and if you can put it in correctly. 

(I got mine at the phamarcy with a prescription from my gynecologist. My diaphragm, the Caya diaphragm, is a one-size diaphragm. But studies have shown that it only fits about 1/3 of all women, so if you're thinking of getting a one-size diaphragm, you should check with your gynecologist, Planned Parenthood councelor etc. if it really fits you). 

It takes a little bit of effort to get used to it and it might take a little bit to find the right size, but I would say that this is pretty much like using condoms and once you know how to insert it, it might be as easy as using condoms. It feels a little bit more intimate, but that comes with a slightly smaller effectiveness. 

Sorry for the long post  these are my experiences with diaphragms.