Jinger 29: New House and New Wardrobe

[sawasdee]

@feministxtianFrom what I understand of IFB, and what you have said of your church, I think it sounds fairly atypical - good on you all!

[Shadoewolf]

I went ballistic on DFO one day on a girl who was all giddy at the Dull's not returning to CA, and gushing over how much good they had done. I asked her exactly what they had done then pointed out what real giving was. Between our family with Oldest and her volunteer work, and our animal rescue. I was SO proud today taking our daughter's friend who will be living with us for his senior year to get his schedule and tour the school, the fire in his eyes knowing what this opportunity means to him and knowing he absolutely will take it to the fullest.  My ex inlaws who are ebil Catholics but do fundraising for crisis pregnancy centers, fundraising to send military kids to camp, plus dinners for kids with developmental disabilities and motorcycle poker runs where all the proceeds go to local veterans charities. All of Hubby's parents (bio and step) are prior service military. 

None of us do it because fire and brimstone, we do it because its good and right. We do it to be the change we want to see in the world. In our case, Hubby and I have had people help us along the way, and now we want to pass it along when we can. Most churches I know have their own little pet projects and charities. Imagine the good the Vuolo's could do in and around Laredo if they really set out to!

[WiseGirl]

7 hours ago, lomo6 said:

Most of us are experimenting with things like dressing ourselves for the first time....

This is what Jinger and all the fashion choices remind me of, a preteen learning what works clothes wise.

[NakedKnees]

I have a hard time getting on board with the idea that supporting Crisis Pregnancy Centers is a good thing some congregations do. I know it's just one controversial act of many obviously good  acts. Iget it that they help moms in need access useful items and services for their babies, but aren't they fundamentally manipulative and meant to replace/take down secular services like Planned Parenthood?

I spent years exploring different churches in catholic and Independent Christian denominations and eventually fell in love with a United Methodist Church because I thought I was on board with all the work they did. I still do support most of it, but it's these little things that "ruined" it for me, so to speak.

In my experience, supporting women's shelters, hospitals, and even high schools and colleges with day cares/young parent programs is a way to access parents in need without manipulating them regarding one of the biggest decisions of their lives, nor supporting abortion providers, if that's important to you.

[ActualReality]

17 hours ago, Lovebug said:

Forget what Jinger is wearing.  Can we just talk about the traveling all over the place for a minute? 

Sarcasm and snarking aside, I'm totally jelly that I cannot just pick up and go at the drop of a hat, as the Vuolos do.  I'm desperately seeking the travel secret.  Anyone?

Ok - so this is what you need to know about tv travel.  (without going into too much detail, I have traveled on the dime of a production company or 2)  I've also traveled on my own dime.  Here are the pros and cons.

Con: When traveling for tv you will most likely be in coach (or the cheapest seat they can afford).  So extra legroom, zero upgrades unless you pay for them yourself.

Pro: The airfare is free to you!

Con: Your time is never your own.  This means that there is a shoot day schedule and you'll need to make the day.  Get in to the location, shoot the scheduled footage, get out.  There's usually not time to go and see what you'd like to see, wander around or have free time.  Also it's not uncommon to fly for a LONG time (in coach) only to turn around and come home 1-2 days later.

Pro:  It's free to you.

Con: There are usually lots of rules that you'll need to follow. (i.e, don't go here, we don't have time for this or that, you need to post x to social media, you can't post y to social media)

Pro: It's free to you

Pro: going into a shoot everyone is SUPER nice and goes out of their way to make sure that you're happy, upbeat and in a good mood for the shoot.

Con:  As soon as they have the footage they need you no longer exist.  You could be on fire and they wouldn't spit on you.

Traveling for a production is very much like being on a school field trip when you're in the first grade.  It's great to go and see/do x but there is not usually time to enjoy/relax/explore.

 

Personally, i've also been able to travel on my own dime and it's a FAR better experience.  Even if you save up and travel cheaply imo it's MUCH better.  Eat when you want, go where you want, take a nap when you feel like it, nobody treats you like a child.  I'm really lucky to have had both experiences.  Trust me when I tell you that about 85% of what you see on tv in ANY "reality" show is a lie or at very least a highly produced version of the truth.

[Shadoewolf]

Not all crisis pregnancy centers are faith based or anti-abortion though. The one my ex inlaws fundraise for is, but there are 2 more in the area who aren't and we donate stuff to them from time to time. 

[ActualReality]

47 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

Not all crisis pregnancy centers are faith based or anti-abortion though. The one my ex inlaws fundraise for is, but there are 2 more in the area who aren't and we donate stuff to them from time to time. 

What do the non-faith based ones do?

 

[MoonFace]

20 hours ago, BeccaGrim said:

I know there is a ton of debate about BC--whether she is using it or if they are doing something to prevent pregnancy--but she might just not be getting pregnant. Look at Michael (Michaella) Bates.  There is a person ready and willing to produce baby after baby and she has been unable. She's even had to address this publicly in a blog.  They have not found (according to her) any reason for the infertility but they just made their second anniversary and no baby.  

 

If they are of the belief that we will have as many children as God gives us then shouldn't they accept that childlessness is also a possibility for their lives? 

That is why it irritated the crap out of me when MEchelle and Bobblehead went to a fertility clinic.   GOD WAD DONE GIVING THEM KIDS!!! ACCEPT IT AS HIS WILL!!!

[Coconut Flan]

Interesting aspect of the Michelle going to a fertility clinic story is that she really didn't.  The voiceover said they were going to a fertility clinic, but the place they went was a maternal fetal medicine specialist IIRC.  She could have gone to any OB, but TLC had to find one willing to appear on TV.  All they did was the standard bloodwork to see where she was regarding menopause apparently.  So no, Michelle did not take herself to a fertility clinic, she got or TLC wanted her to have the blood tests to see if she was peri-menopausal and TLC got the joy of lying to the audience.  

[Fluffy14]

3 hours ago, NakedKnees said:

Iget it that they help moms in need access useful items and services for their babies, but aren't they fundamentally manipulative and meant to replace/take down secular services like Planned Parenthood?

My eldest daughter was a client director at a  Christian crisis pregnancy center here on the west coast of Canada. She was in charge of councelling,  and distribution of items.

Because of our laws they had to give an equal education on all birth choices, or abortion choices and the outcomes emotionally. They were not allowed to give a religious view on anything. Even the literature given out. 

Which was fine. The women were free to make their own choices fully informed. 

Many women used the center for all sorts of reasons. Domestic violence, new immigrants, young young teens as young as 13. And women in different family situations.

They were vetted for income, and if they met the criteria they were given food, clothing, diapers, and any baby item needed to support a new baby. They could come back monthly if needed.

The support they provided for councelling consisted of working through the emotions that their situation raised be it post abortion grief, emotional support for new mums, and a myriad of other issues.

Interesting to note was women in their 60s-70s getting post abortion councelling. 

So I don't know what kind of stigma is out there regarding crisis pregnancy support in the USA but here in BC it is regulated and religion must not be pushed or used as a tool to dissuade abortion.

[singsingsing]

I honestly thought that Michelle looked and sounded relieved when she was telling the cameras that the doctor said it was possible, but extremely unlikely, that she would conceive again. I'm sure there were a lot of mixed emotions involved, and I could be completely wrong because it's based on my totally subjective interpretation, but she definitely didn't seem to me like a woman who was devastated and desperate to get pregnant again. 

Michelle may be nuts in certain ways, but the trauma she went through with Josie and Jubilee was very real and would have affected her in a very real way. I don't care how brainwashed she is, how fundamentalist, how obsessed with having more babies, there must have been some level of terror there, mixed with guilt because having umpteen children was 'obviously' her calling from God. Being told by a doctor that the baby factory was likely closed forever may have been a huge (subconscious?) relief to her, because she was now saved from the danger of further pregnancies, saved from the trauma of another micro-premie or stillbirth, but it wasn't her fault. She could then honestly say, "I would've loved more babies, but that season of life seems to be over for me!" 

Like I said, just conjecture on my part.

[MoonFace]

19 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

 

They were vetted for income, and if they met the criteria they were given food, clothing, diapers, and any baby item needed to support a new baby. They could come back monthly if needed.

How long can they keep coming back?   

My concern is that many pregnancy crisis centers here in the US are there for the mothers for the first few months but then who is there to help them raise the child and support the child the rest of the child's life?    (Boy, lets open a can of worms with that statement) 

[ActualReality]

26 minutes ago, Fluffy14 said:

My eldest daughter was a client director at a  Christian crisis pregnancy center here on the west coast of Canada. She was in charge of councelling,  and distribution of items.

Because of our laws they had to give an equal education on all birth choices, or abortion choices and the outcomes emotionally. They were not allowed to give a religious view on anything. Even the literature given out. 

Which was fine. The women were free to make their own choices fully informed. 

Many women used the center for all sorts of reasons. Domestic violence, new immigrants, young young teens as young as 13. And women in different family situations.

They were vetted for income, and if they met the criteria they were given food, clothing, diapers, and any baby item needed to support a new baby. They could come back monthly if needed.

The support they provided for councelling consisted of working through the emotions that their situation raised be it post abortion grief, emotional support for new mums, and a myriad of other issues.

Interesting to note was women in their 60s-70s getting post abortion councelling. 

So I don't know what kind of stigma is out there regarding crisis pregnancy support in the USA but here in BC it is regulated and religion must not be pushed or used as a tool to dissuade abortion.

This is interesting.  I've never used a CPC but that's not my understanding of how they work in the US.  Because they're faith based the entire goal of the place is to basically talk women out of abortions in the US.  THey are permitted to lie to women about the risks of abortion, their stage of pregnancy and health effects of BC.  Their sole purpose is to prevent abortion.

The thing that drives me a little crazy about them is that they target people who need accurate and complete information the most (the young and the poor).  If you have the ability to walk into your OBs office and get the information and services you need you're unlikely to go to CPC.  It's sad.

[Nikedagain?]

Three decades ago, I was a pregnant teenager all alone. I told NO ONE. I wanted an abortion and naively found my way to one of these "pregnancy care centers". It was traumatizing to say the least. The staff and volunteers were among the most judgmental, vitriolic people I had ever encountered at the time. They gave very distorted "facts". This experience left me with a deep desire to preserve a woman's right to choice. I ultimately chose adoption, but definitely NOT because of them. 

[MoonFace]

1 hour ago, Nikedagain? said:

Three decades ago, I was a pregnant teenager all alone. I told NO ONE. I wanted an abortion and naively found my way to one of these "pregnancy care centers". It was traumatizing to say the least. The staff and volunteers were among the most judgmental, vitriolic people I had ever encountered at the time. They gave very distorted "facts". This experience left me with a deep desire to preserve a woman's right to choice. I ultimately chose adoption, but definitely NOT because of them. 

I'm so sorry you had to experience this sort of thing.    Having an unplanned pregnancy at any time/stage of life is hard enough - but to be bullied into making a choice that you aren't prepared to make is beyond painful, I'm sure.    

I hope you are doing ok now. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, MoonFace said:

How long can they keep coming back?   

My concern is that many pregnancy crisis centers here in the US are there for the mothers for the first few months but then who is there to help them raise the child and support the child the rest of the child's life?    (Boy, lets open a can of worms with that statement) 

This is my problem with the "prolife" movement. They do everything in their power to make sure a child is born, but once it is a living breathing life, "Sorry, not sorry, you're on your own".  Men are NOT help responsible for their children and mothers are just whores who got themselves pregnant outside of marriage.

I've used planned parenthood, for emergency contraception when the condom broke mid month.  This was 5 months before my wedding, this was when the beginning of "Plan B" birth control.  They were great and tried to get me on BC right there by I had my yearly exam scheduled for 2 weeks later and was planning on it then.  I also used then when my work didn't cover bc after I had 2 kids.  We used them until DH had his vasectomy and we got the all clear. Again they were wonderful, non judgmental and made sure I was comfortable with what I was using and that it wasn't making me sick.  They do so much more than abortions and are so much better at helping you than crisis centers here in the US.

 

1 hour ago, ActualReality said:

This is interesting.  I've never used a CPC but that's not my understanding of how they work in the US.  Because they're faith based the entire goal of the place is to basically talk women out of abortions in the US.  THey are permitted to lie to women about the risks of abortion, their stage of pregnancy and health effects of BC.  Their sole purpose is to prevent abortion.

They are not only PERMITTED to lie, PP isn't permitted to tell the truth in many states.  They are nothing but sanctimonious religious centers that treat women like garbage and tell them they are worthless whores and their children are bastards and that they are to suffer for life for being in the wrong.  Again, never bothering to go after the guy that helped her get pregnant in the 1st place.

[MoonFace]

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've used planned parenthood, for emergency contraception when the condom broke mid month.  (snip)_We used them until DH had his vasectomy and we got the all clear. Again they were wonderful, non judgmental and made sure I was comfortable with what I was using and that it wasn't making me sick.  They do so much more than abortions and are so much better at helping you than crisis centers here in the US.

I also used PP when I was first married.    We didn't have insurance.    

As you say, they also do other things besides BC - pap tests and all.    So they do advocate (or they did back in the '70's) for women's health.   

 

[MadeItOut]

1 hour ago, Nikedagain? said:

Three decades ago, I was a pregnant teenager all alone. I told NO ONE. I wanted an abortion and naively found my way to one of these "pregnancy care centers". It was traumatizing to say the least. The staff and volunteers were among the most judgmental, vitriolic people I had ever encountered at the time. They gave very distorted "facts". This experience left me with a deep desire to preserve a woman's right to choice. I ultimately chose adoption, but definitely NOT because of them. 

Can I give you a massive hug please?!

My then BF, later ex-husbeast took me to a 'christian' (small c as they most decidedly did not act that way) crisis clinic when I was raped at 17. Only a couple of months ago (the clinic we happen to have transferred to has a GP who is a specialist in post DV) did I find out on top of a load of stuff they did/said/omitted, some of that 'advice' was still negatively affecting me and my health up to that visit, half a lifetime later. 

Outside of perhaps someone may find comfort for themselves and their loved ones in any form of prayer/energy work/whatever, there is absolutely NO space in medicine for religion and dogma. 

[PainfullyAware]

If it was possible, I would wish that crisis pregnancy centers that are part of a pro-life Church could only provide support to pregnant women that have already made the choice to carry to full-term. It seems obviously unethical for them to counsel women on what choice to make when they have a vested interest in a specific outcome. Better yet they should just be crisis centers for new moms and stay out of the whole pregnancy area of things.

For a long time I thought that the pro-life movement should stop focusing on advocacy for legislation changes or pressuring women not to terminate the pregnancy. It seems like they would be more persuasive by figuring out how to provide support to mothers facing challenges so that raising children seems more viable in certain circumstances (like being unable to afford childcare, needing training for a higher-paying job, needing shelter, help navigating community services etc).

[NakedKnees]

Thanks for info @Fluffy14 and @Shadoewolf. I had no idea that secular CPCs exist.

CPCs, in my experience in the US, are decidedly Christian and anti choice. They use tactics including lying about developmental stages of fetuses, setting up near actual clinics with birth control and abortion services, and attempting to look "medical" without necessarily having any medical staff. If there are ones out there that avoid all that and provide honest, secular information about abortion and birth control options, then power to them!

[candygirl200413]

I watched Jackson which was a documentary about the last standing abortion center in Mississippi as well as a  Crisis Center. They focused on a girl whose name is escaping me right now but she had 4 kids under the age of 5 and was only 22? 23? She was pregnant with #5 and went to a non-secular crisis center. It made me so sad because once she had her newest baby they just cared about the newborn for all of 5 seconds and ignored her other kids. Plus she asked about getting onto some form of BC and the woman was telling her that she doesn't need it because God will provide (even though the girl was already struggling hard with her kids already).

[cascarones]

My only experience with a CPC was years ago and it wasn't for myself. I had a study abroad boyfriend I stayed serious with and his sister was coming to the US as a high school exchange student in an ESL, learning placement (where the host family also spoke the native language). She and her fellow student wound up at a CPC, just trying to find a crisis center for women because the host dad was Josh level massive steaming pile of shit and they were afraid to telll the host mum. 

The center was really nice when they called me to help translate (she got upset trying to talk about it and couldn't quite manage it in English) and really sweet while I drove like a crazy person for hours to get there and get them. If I remember correctly they had some sort of agreement with the Wendy's, where all of the women could walk across the parking lot and get a free meal. 

I'm getting furious all over again thinking about it, the shitshow level fall out that followed, but they were there for that too. Advocating and equivocating that I should be their temporary legal guardian, despite the fact I was a college student living with eleventy billion people in a church house right off campus. I don't know how you're doing Miss Helen, but thank you for being a staunch supporter and downright liar to help one young girl help two others. And for following up as they got a new temporary placement and finally a settled one.

[HarleyQuinn]

There used to be a crisis pregnancy center outside of the town I grew up in and they had a terrible reputation of givnig false information. They also partnered with a group home for pregnant girls to stay while they were pregnant (basically because their religious parents shunned them until they gave up the kid for adoption then came home)

[Shadoewolf]

The 2 good ones here do pregnancy testing, have a computer where you can apply for Medicaid/WIC or use it to search job sites, they have a clothes closet that runs from maternity clothes to age 5, you can get one pack of free diapers and 4 cans of formula every 2 weeks. They provide a voucher for a free car seat, and they'll give out bassinets/Pack-n-Plays and strollers if they have them available. Just caring and compassionate people, many who have been there and didn't have any help.

The one my ex inlaws raise money for are faith based, pro-life and are one of the places that bought an ultrasound machine so if you're thinking about abortion they can show you the baby's beating heart and hopefully change your mind. It's insane.

[calimojo]

remember that place that Josh gave the giant stuffed bear to?  Weren't they are crisis pregnancy center that had a residential program.  And I think when they were talking to the woman, she pretty much said once the kid was born then the woman had to move on. 

I guess to be fair they are calling themselves a crisis "pregnancy" center, so I guess that does declare that it is just for a specific amount of time.  But if they promise to help after the birth, and then don't that is the problem.  It would be ever so lovely if these same churches that ran the CPCs also had Crisis Nurseries, or Crisis Day Cares, etc to assist woman after giving birth.