Why young Christians bail: it's NOT because of Sunday School

[Patsy]

An actual study? Using logic, reasoning, and what is actually going on in the world? Get thee behind me, Satan.

[FaustianSlip]

I think churches try to hard. I don't need a pastor to be hip, I don't need a rock band, I don't need free coffee before the service. What I need (in terms of religion) is a place where I can ask questions, where I could express doubt, and where I could learn more about Jesus. Not "Jesus doesn't want you to have sex" but "hey, have you thought about this verse/passage this way?"

This, this, this. Obviously, I don't attend church, but in the Jewish context, the very best sermons, Torah study sessions and other spiritual experiences haven't been because I had a really cool rabbi or a rock band played at Kabbalat Shabbat (actually, that would be- and has been- a gigantic turn-off), but when a rabbi has given a sermon that made me sit back and go, "Wow- I never considered it that way." When, as we did at a Rosh Hashanah lunch for twenty-somethings yesterday, we talk about big concepts like the nature of forgiveness, not to find a magic answer, necessarily, but to turn it over and see what we come up with. And not just a rabbi; one of the best things about my old synagogue was that after reading the Torah portion and before actually giving a sermon, we would do Torah study as a congregation. Our rabbi would ask questions and take answers from the congregation before giving a short sermon relating to that week's portion. It was great- far and away my favorite part of the service, and the stuff other congregants would bring up was often fascinating and insightful. Again, the point wasn't to say, "XYZ is the answer," but to have an exchange about the possibilities and go from there. This attitude, based on my experiences, seems much more common in Jewish circles than in Christian, but I'm obviously biased.

I left Christianity because I just didn't believe in it, and not for lack of trying. I suspect that what started me questioning, though, were a number of troubling encounters with both Christian theology and Christian religious leaders who couldn't/wouldn't give me satisfactory (and honest) answers to my questions. I remember once my mother accusing me of just wanting to sleep in on Sundays (this was when I was in junior high). Once she realized that I was attending synagogue anywhere from three to seven or eight times a week, often for early morning minyan and then for Saturday services that typically last three hours or so, that particular criticism went pretty quick. If religious services are engaging and spiritually fulfilling, people, teenagers included, will go. Not because they have to, but because they want to. Teenagers and young adults are smarter than a lot of churches give them credit for, and a lot of what they want isn't all that dissimilar from what adults are after.

[Rosa]

I want deep theological discussion. I want to discuss why Catholics and Lutherans and Southern Baptists and Presbyterians and Pentecostals all interpret the Bible in such different ways. I want to talk about church history and how the reformation might have addressed real problems with the Catholic church back in the day, but how even the Catholics don't do those things now. Or why the Pentecostals don't believe in the trinity but are considered Christian, but other groups that don't believe in the trinity aren't because they don't. And so on. And so forth. My favorite topic (ever since acing a college honors project on it) is usually Catholic vs. Orthodox split and Orthodoxy in general since so few people in my area even know what it really is.

Jen, that's really fascinating. Because in high school, the church I went to was quite intellectual - we were all going to be confirmed, so we had to know what it meant, study a little bit of Wesleyan theology, read the Bible, talk about ethics and morality in terms of Bibles stories, church history, and current day issues.

And I think a lot of kids left that church because they had a more experiential way of relating to their faith, more emotional, and they didn't really care about the details. (Or worse, they had a very passionate relationship with God and then the people of the church didn't live up to that - I think those kids either become nonreligious or become churchhoppers.)

[pomology]

This, this, this. Obviously, I don't attend church, but in the Jewish context, the very best sermons, Torah study sessions and other spiritual experiences haven't been because I had a really cool rabbi or a rock band played at Kabbalat Shabbat (actually, that would be- and has been- a gigantic turn-off), but when a rabbi has given a sermon that made me sit back and go, "Wow- I never considered it that way." When, as we did at a Rosh Hashanah lunch for twenty-somethings yesterday, we talk about big concepts like the nature of forgiveness, not to find a magic answer, necessarily, but to turn it over and see what we come up with. And not just a rabbi; one of the best things about my old synagogue was that after reading the Torah portion and before actually giving a sermon, we would do Torah study as a congregation. Our rabbi would ask questions and take answers from the congregation before giving a short sermon relating to that week's portion. It was great- far and away my favorite part of the service, and the stuff other congregants would bring up was often fascinating and insightful. Again, the point wasn't to say, "XYZ is the answer," but to have an exchange about the possibilities and go from there. This attitude, based on my experiences, seems much more common in Jewish circles than in Christian, but I'm obviously biased.

I left Christianity because I just didn't believe in it, and not for lack of trying. I suspect that what started me questioning, though, were a number of troubling encounters with both Christian theology and Christian religious leaders who couldn't/wouldn't give me satisfactory (and honest) answers to my questions. I remember once my mother accusing me of just wanting to sleep in on Sundays (this was when I was in junior high). Once she realized that I was attending synagogue anywhere from three to seven or eight times a week, often for early morning minyan and then for Saturday services that typically last three hours or so, that particular criticism went pretty quick. If religious services are engaging and spiritually fulfilling, people, teenagers included, will go. Not because they have to, but because they want to. Teenagers and young adults are smarter than a lot of churches give them credit for, and a lot of what they want isn't all that dissimilar from what adults are after.

Actually, I have to say I love my assistant Rabbi because she is really cool. And by cool I mean really, really smart and engaging.

[Joykins]

I left the evangelical church in part because of its pat answers that were, as far as I could tell, simply not accurate a lot of the time. That is, if you took an undergraduate course in the New Testament (which I did) and learned a bit about the origins of the Bible, for example, that wasn't the same as the answers you'd get in church. And then our church did some outreach thing that was supposed to "address the hard questions" but did not present anything new or answer any hard questions, in fact the pastor did the Ray Comfort banana trick (I mean, SERIOUSLY????) as a proof of God's existence, and I just couldn't take it anymore.

[FaustianSlip]

Okay, admittedly, I've had rabbis that I loved because I thought they were cool, but to me being able to give an awesome drash qualifies as "cool," so....

Of course, that said, I actually found my previous shul in part because the rabbi's page mentioned that he's a giant Beatles fan, and I thought, "Well, if the guy's a Beatles fan, that's gotta be a good sign, right?" Turned out that the synagogue was a perfect fit not only in terms of the rabbi, but also as far as hashkafa, services, et cetera. So that's my advice: find a shul full of Beatles fans, and it'll probably turn out okay.

The Jewish equivalent of a guitar mass, though, just ain't for me. Wildly enthusiastic singing? Great. Instruments on the bimah at Kabbalat Shabbat services? Really jarring (almost as much as the time I went to a synagogue in London and out of nowhere, an organ started playing and a choir burst into song from behind a screen that was set back behind the ark- almost gave me a heart attack).

[margiebargie]

I left the evangelical church in part because of its pat answers that were, as far as I could tell, simply not accurate a lot of the time. That is, if you took an undergraduate course in the New Testament (which I did) and learned a bit about the origins of the Bible, for example, that wasn't the same as the answers you'd get in church. And then our church did some outreach thing that was supposed to "address the hard questions" but did not present anything new or answer any hard questions, in fact the pastor did the Ray Comfort banana trick (I mean, SERIOUSLY????) as a proof of God's existence, and I just couldn't take it anymore.

Oh no. Not the banana. I guess that pastor did not want to be taken seriously.

[margiebargie]

An actual study? Using logic, reasoning, and what is actually going on in the world? Get thee behind me, Satan.

Well, reading and studying the Bible makes a lot of atheists. I'd still be a christian if I hadn't read the bible. It's no surprise that serious study is discouraged.

[Austin]

. . . and I just couldn't take it anymore.

If I boiled it all down, this is exactly why I left the evangelical church. I just couldn't take it any more. Maybe some people are just fine with the enormous cognitive dissonance required for the whole deal, but I wasn't.

[pomology]

I also like that my assistant Rabbi is totally cool with the fact that I am not a huge fan of services and will get lunch with me so that we can hang out instead of encouraging me to go to services for the privilege. And is also cool with the various doubts I have with various theological aspects of Judaism. Hell, even my rather conservative head Rabbi was cool with the doubts I expressed in a D'var Torah that I gave last summer. He said something like, "You somehow managed to disagree with/question God/the Torah in a totally acceptable and reasonable way."

I have to add that the fact that the Rabbi at my school tries so hard to make Judaism "accessible" to everybody drives me crazy. Because if it is "accessible" to the lowest common denominator, then it is not at all accessible or appealing to me. For example, expressing yesterday in services that it was fine to sit down when the Torah was still up. Um. No. It's not fine. I may not have 100% reverence for what is written in the Torah, but I do have reverence for the scrolls of parchment themselves. Trying to downplay that aspect of tradition is not okay with me. It's not "cool" to downplay the respect that Jews are supposed to show the Torah in order to make services more "accessible" it was alienating and caused me to walk out until the Shofar service, which also alienated me and then I walked out for good, furious with the quality of Jewish life on campus, but utterly unwilling to turn to the alternative, which is Chabad, which alienates me in a totally different way.

[Ava]

There is definitely a "Reason #7 - Because they simply didn't believe in it" missing from that list.

The church I went do did everything "right" in theory... open to science, open to discussion, sermons were more of the "Jesus loves everyone" variety than the "everyone is damned to hell" variety, never once do I remember anything related to sex being mentioned. And I left* anyway, because I eventually came to the conclusion that the only reason I had to believe in any of it was because I had been taught to at a young age. But I suppose they can't include that in the survey, because it's not something you can fix.

* I didn't get to physically leave: my parents forced me to go to church with them every single week until partway through college. But my mind had checked out of the process long before, so I was merely a "stand, sit, flip the page" zombie. Maybe they need a "Reason #8 - They never actually wanted to be there in the first place, and their parents finally lost the power to make them go".

[Joykins]

We want to experience the deep theology but instead we get the most endless chorus of "Open The Eyes Of My Heart, Lord" ever. (If I never hear that song again it will be too soon.)

I used to sing "Open the Valves of My Heart, Lord," and my husband would nudge me.

[Joykins]

Oh no. Not the banana. I guess that pastor did not want to be taken seriously.

Not only that, he handed a banana to everyone in the congregations, and I hate bananas so much the smell of them makes me gag.

[Kitty]

I second everything everyone else has said. I already posted that the things listed in the OP were what made me quit at just 14. So I'll elaborate.

My family is not very conservative to begin with. My parents have always enjoyed a few drinks with friends on the weekends. They smoke. They cuss a LOT. Most of all, they actually trust my sister and me- they would never restrict our internet access using filters, they would never go through our stuff. We had TVs in our rooms... well I did until I was about 16, a few years after I stopped watching TV pretty much altogether. They let us listen to pretty much whatever we wanted to, and watch whatever movies we wanted. Of course there were restrictions, because at the time we still went to church my sister and I were in middle school. None of the limits were unreasonable, and even then I knew I had quite a bit more freedom than my friends did. And my mother had graduated from a very strict Baptist high school, way back in 1982 when Baptists were VERY strict even by 1980's/1970's standards.

But my mother insisted on going to Southern Baptist churches for some reason. We went church-hopping for a few years. What would happen was my sister and I would be invited by friends to go to a youth group or kids' Bible study or something. After a few months of this, my parents would finally go to church on Sundays. Since my parents have a low tolerance for drama and gossip which seem to be ubiquitous in churches, at least the Baptist churches I went to, we'd leave soon after.

One thing I can say about my Christian experience is that it was very, very shallow. And to me, Christianity is shallow. I'm not talking about an individual's Christian faith, but American Christianity as a whole. It's all about recruiting. It's almost cult-like. Conform and obey, and everything will be OK. My faith was about as deep as a dried-up puddle when I was still going to church. By the time I was 13, I realized that youth group would never answer my questions. It was all about abstinence, abortion, sexuality, and watching the right shows and movies and staying away from Harry Potter. I didn't understand how Harry Potter damaged my Christian faith. At the last church, I transitioned from Truth and Training (the AWANA group for middle-schoolers) to JV, which is not AWANA-affiliated. In TnT they didn't bring up the Trinity until very late. I was about 11 or 12 when they did. I didn't understand it, but because AWANA is more about memorization than anything else, I couldn't really question it. That's what youth groups are like- they cram all this doctrine down your throat, and when you question it, you're either stupid, not paying attention, or you just need to pray on it. Conform and obey and everything will be OK. The pastor would preach about abortion and homosexuality from the pulpit. In 2004 he "didn't" endorse George Bush, he "simply said" to vote for the pro-life candidate. Who was very obviously not John Kerry.

I stopped going to youth group when I was about 12, pushing 13, because it wasn't doing anything for me. I don't mean to sound conceited or arrogant, but I'm very smart. I was very smart then, a lot smarter than most of the people I knew. So the obvious preaching just annoyed me. I had real theological questions, like "What if the Bible wasn't translated into English properly?" and "Why are there so many freaking denominations of Christianity when 400 years ago there were three or four?" During the sermons I would read other parts of the Bible. The preacher never talked about what I was reading. I once started reading a long list of laws in Exodus, and some of them were just so insane, beyond even a modern adult's comprehension. But for me, everyone just told me: Only Christian music; any secular music has to be super-clean. Shorts to the knee (impossible for me since I've always had very long legs for my height). No boyfriends. No Harry Potter. We can't trust you to be alone with a boy, even if you're just walking downstairs to get some drinks. No tampons.

It was around that time that I discovered that I hated most contemporary Christian music. The lyrics were innuendos. Not sexual innuendos, but still, they were talking about Jesus but would never actually say it. They sounded like the love songs I wasn't supposed to listen to on the radio. The adults told me to have the sort of relationship with Jesus that I wasn't supposed to have with a boy. It was so confusing to me, that I blocked it out. I'd put up with the crappy, repetitive songs sung over acoustic guitars, then go right home and listen to my metal CDs. I couldn't stand the contemporary songs. There was no art. There was no energy. Just some guy going on about what sounded like a gay relationship with Jesus, over a very simple beat, keyboard, and acoustic guitar. I preferred the evil secular music, because it didn't preach to me. It simply spoke to me. [/artiste]

My experience was so shallow, based mostly on rules that my parents didn't expect me to follow. That was the only Christianity I knew. My family stopped going to that church after some women told my mother she was a bad mother for letting me read Harry Potter. I read more books that if my parents actually bought into the evangelical book bans, I wouldn't be allowed to read. The Da Vinci Code, for all of its inaccuracies and silliness, made me really think about Christianity as a whole. I started asking questions online. My suspicions about the Bible had been confirmed. I couldn't believe anymore. By the time I was 15, I was an atheist. I quit Christianity, or whatever bastardized form of it I was taught.

[Kitty]

I find what I get in (my evangelical SBC church) very very shallow in comparison. This is what I thought the study was saying. We want to experience the deep theology but instead we get the most endless chorus of "Open The Eyes Of My Heart, Lord" ever. (If I never hear that song again it will be too soon.)

Jesus Tapdancing Christ, this. I used to LOVE that song, but now I have the chorus (basically the entire friggin' song!) stuck in my head and AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MAKE IT STOP ;_;

[Kaylee]

I want deep theological discussion. I want to discuss why Catholics and Lutherans and Southern Baptists and Presbyterians and Pentecostals all interpret the Bible in such different ways. I want to talk about church history and how the reformation might have addressed real problems with the Catholic church back in the day, but how even the Catholics don't do those things now. Or why the Pentecostals don't believe in the trinity but are considered Christian, but other groups that don't believe in the trinity aren't because they don't. And so on. And so forth. My favorite topic (ever since acing a college honors project on it) is usually Catholic vs. Orthodox split and Orthodoxy in general since so few people in my area even know what it really is.

And okay, we're an SBC church? Let's talk about WHY we're an SBC church. Why do we all congregate here, and not over at the Methodist church or the Bible church. ...

This is/was a big thing for me. Even when I was in my teens, part of what aggravated me about youth group was that I felt like a wasn't really learning or understanding anything about God, theology, or the Bible. Then seeing the same thing as an adult, both in church and in adult Bible studies, really sucked and made me feel let down.

I think this is also part of the reason behind the "young, restless, and reformed" movement. There is a lot of theological teaching and discussion there, if often to the neglect of practical Christianity and living it rather than discussing it, so it attracts people who are looking to learn more about the history and "Whys" of their faith, or at least one take on it.

[margiebargie]

I used to sing "Open the Valves of My Heart, Lord," and my husband would nudge me.

AHAHAHAHA. 'scuse you for being accurate.