Safe at Home 2: The Continuing Adventures of The Arndts

[Carm_88]

4 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Speaking of the penguin theme, I wonder how much any possible Princess Charmings have been weirded out by it.

Imagine that on a first day. 

Princess Charming: "So tell me about you. What are your interests?" 

ManBoy: "Well I love my family. I have a huge family and I love Penguins. Did I show you the pictures of Benji? Look at them!" 

Beware of Penguin Fever everyone. Once affected, there is no cure. 

[nokidsmom]

@Carm_88  think you nailed it on that first conversation: penguins and family.

Now I am on a roll.

"I am so lucky to be born in the best family in the world"

"You should see our youtube video where we put a penguin on a drone.  It's the best video ever"

"Oh and BTW, did I tell you how much I love my family?  I have been working on my father's film project that never ends.  All of us are slaves to pitch in on this project".

By this time, Princess Charming is like "Er, I see.   Well, nice talking to you, gotta go!" as she runs away.

 

 

 

[MamaJunebug]

@nokidsmom(having trouble quoting on mobile device)

Sadly I agree w you about the Arndtd and Maxwells bring the level worst of those who live near polite society -- In the Maxwells' case, right in town. This isolation is stuff you expect to hear about in the wilds of wherever, not Leavenworth (a surprisingly cosmopolitan town, given the officers' college at the fort) and the part of So. Illinois that is very much the part of the bi-state sprawl.

At least Steve has let 3 sons marry. And I can't believe I just up-voted Steve. 

[Carm_88]

3 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

@Carm_88  think you nailed it on that first conversation: penguins and family.

Now I am on a roll.

"I am so lucky to be born in the best family in the world"

"You should see our youtube video where we put a penguin on a drone.  It's the best video ever"

"Oh and BTW, did I tell you how much I love my family?  I have been working on my father's film project that never ends.  All of us are slaves to pitch in on this project".

By this time, Princess Charming is like "Er, I see.   Well, nice talking to you, gotta go!" as she runs away.

Princess Charming: "Oh that's wonderful." Trying to change the subject "What about work? What do you do?" 

Manboy: "Oh! I work for the family business. Sometimes wedding photography, somethings court reporting. Sometimes just working with Mom around the house. All of us are involved. I have the best job in the world because I come from the best family in the world." 

[nokidsmom]

7 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

@nokidsmom(having trouble quoting on mobile device)

Sadly I agree w you about the Arndtd and Maxwells bring the level worst of those who live near polite society -- In the Maxwells' case, right in town. This isolation is stuff you expect to hear about in the wilds of wherever, not Leavenworth (a surprisingly cosmopolitan town, given the officers' college at the fort) and the part of So. Illinois that is very much the part of the bi-state sprawl.

At least Steve has let 3 sons marry. And I can't believe I just up-voted Steve. 

@MamaJunebug, exactly!  This level of isolation in a family would be expected in remote areas not in/near major metro areas which Leavenworth and St. Louis are.  To isolate your kids to the degree that the Arndts and Maxwells have, it would have take a lot more conscious effort on part of the parents because there would be so many more perceived ebil influences to guard against.  

Also how many times when growing up would kids have to be kept from activities involving other people not in the family?  It's got to be damn hard on those kids to be told over and over they can't have friends or activities with friends. IMHO, both Maxwell and Arndt kids are suffering from some form of Stockholm Syndrome, they have bonded with their captors as a survival mechanism.  

And agree that Steve did allow his sons to marry in spite of his many requirements, he got lucky especially with Christopher and Nathan who found wives long after Steve went down the rabbithole.  Steve also doesn't strike me to be quite as useless as Rick though he's just as cray cray.   He's been shown doing work on the homes, packing the car for their Groundhog Day Type Vacation to Colorado, to name a couple of things.  

18 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Princess Charming: "Oh that's wonderful." Trying to change the subject "What about work? What do you do?" 

Manboy: "Oh! I work for the family business. Sometimes wedding photography, somethings court reporting. Sometimes just working with Mom around the house. All of us are involved. I have the best job in the world because I come from the best family in the world." 

To continue:

Manboy: "Oh btw, we will have to split the tab.   Though I have the best job in the world, working with the best family in the world, they get all my money so I have only a few dollars on me".

Princess Charming:  "They get all your money?   And you do all this work?  That doesn't seem fair"

Manboy:  "But they are really, truly, honestly the best family in the world.  I am so lucky to be born into the best family in the world, I really am" as manboy smiles broadly over the thought while Princess Charming realizes that this will be their first and last date.

[JenniferJuniper]

"I sleep on the top bunk!" 

[church_of_dog]

 

 

[GeoBQn]

The imagined date conversation makes me think of an interview I heard with a woman who took a trip to North Korea.  She said that if you are in any other 3rd world country and traveling on a bad road, the locals will say, "It's a bad road because the government is corrupt and stole all the money."  In North Korea, the locals will deny that the road is bad.  They will say, "We thank our Glorious Leader for building us a perfect road."  I can picture the Arndt boys having that same ingrained brainwashing.

[Dandruff]

4 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

"I sleep on the top bunk!" 

"But my brother got the Superman sheets this week.  They're my favorite.  We both like Legos.  Do you like Legos? ... Where are you going?"

[Carm_88]

On 5/1/2017 at 8:55 PM, Dandruff said:

"But my brother got the Superman sheets this week.  They're my favorite.  We both like Legos.  Do you like Legos? ... Where are you going?"

I just choked. Would they be allowed to watch Superman? Wouldn't it be Penguin sheets? 

[nokidsmom]

31 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

I just choked. Would they be allowed to watch Superman? Wouldn't it be Penguin sheets? 

Like these?

[Carm_88]

2 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Like these?

Oh those are perfect! 

[Black Aliss]

I wonder if Rick hasn't convinced the family that he has some kind of terminal illness, therefore he has to take it easy, oh, and his dream is to complete Vine Valley before he goes to meet his maker. . .

Or he does have a potentially life-shortening illness, such as MS, which is in remission, but which he uses as a weapon to control his family. . .

Or he has for reals a form of early-onset dementia and can't do anything more than post anti-choice screeds on the web site and create rambling pointless scripts for Vine Valley.

[nokidsmom]

25 minutes ago, Black Aliss said:

I wonder if Rick hasn't convinced the family that he has some kind of terminal illness, therefore he has to take it easy, oh, and his dream is to complete Vine Valley before he goes to meet his maker. . .

Or he does have a potentially life-shortening illness, such as MS, which is in remission, but which he uses as a weapon to control his family. . .

Or he has for reals a form of early-onset dementia and can't do anything more than post anti-choice screeds on the web site and create rambling pointless scripts for Vine Valley.

While I think Rick has convinced his family, especially his kids, that he needs them for all the work and financial support that they do, I don't think he is using illness as a means of controlling them, just years of mind fuckery.    

Rick seems pretty healthy and robust for his age so it's interesting that he "retired" early only to fall back on his kids to do the heavy lifting of supporting the family.   RIck presents as much information about his family as he wants people to know, so that suggests to me that he has enough of a filter in his mind.   If there is a health issue, we wouldn't know it, but for my part, I doubt it.  Personally I think Rick has kicked back and lets his family support him because they can and will obediently do it.  

 What I think though is that he's lived in his own echo chamber (and forced his family to do same) and that's behind his screeds and ramblings.  

[Nikedagain?]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

Oh those are perfect! 

 

I can totally see those sheets on the eleventy sets of bunk beds in that house. 

This is so, so, so sad.

The Arndts break my stone cold, dead heart. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, Black Aliss said:

I wonder if Rick hasn't convinced the family that he has some kind of terminal illness, therefore he has to take it easy, oh, and his dream is to complete Vine Valley before he goes to meet his maker. . .

Or he does have a potentially life-shortening illness, such as MS, which is in remission, but which he uses as a weapon to control his family. . .

Or he has for reals a form of early-onset dementia and can't do anything more than post anti-choice screeds on the web site and create rambling pointless scripts for Vine Valley.

Nah, he's just a lazy ass.  

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

With Rick I think it's mind fuckery and manipulation. 

Post college, pre Mr. Dress I dated a guy who was always short of cash.  He lived in a ratty apt; drove a beater car; owned 1 suit, 1 pair of dress shoes and 5 shirts for work, and never had more than $5 dollars in his pocket.  He was a CPA in a large firm so it wasn't for lack of salary.

After a couple of months I asked him what was going on (I thought gambling addiction). But no it turned out that he was sending 3/4 of his salary to his father every month. His 3 brothers, including the 2 married ones, were doing the same. 

As he explained to me, they were paying their dad back for supporting them while they were growing up. As each son graduated college, dad let them know that he'd put food in their mouths and a roof over their heads and now they needed to repay him for all that money spent.  In turn each one of them began doing so.

[Background:  My boyfriend was a CPA, 2 brothers were engineers, and the other was a Certified Master Mechanic. They all lived at home during college/ trade school, paid serious rent and put themselves through with a combo of loans and full time jobs.  Dad was an executive at a local manufacturing company. making really good money. He was also a skinflint -- 7 kids, 3 adults (grandfather lived with them) in an 1100 sq ft. house with 3 teeny tiny bedrooms. The 4 brothers slept in the un-insulated attic on camp cots. Froze in winter, burned in summer. Kept their clothes in a cardboard box each. Two of the girls married straight out of high school to get away.  The other got a college scholarship, moved out and never came back]

Back to my story: I told my boyfriend that paying his dad back for feeding him as a child was insane. He argued that no, it was the least he could do for all his dad had done for the family.  After all he fed them and gave them a place to live

I asked him how long this repayment was to last, and he finally admitted that it would end at his father's death. At the time his dad was about 58-60 and still working. All 4 sons had been sending home beaucoup bucks monthly for about 5 years,  Boyfriend also told me his dad would eventually retire on a fat pension and also had "investments".

Needless to say we broke up very shortly thereafter, because that level of insanity was just too much to deal with.

 As far as I know all the sons kept sending money for the next 15-20 years (heard the dad died about 5 years ago). I have absolutely no idea how the dad convinced 4 intelligent guys to send him most of their money . . .  But he was a sly, mean, manipulative SOB (i met him) and I suspect he'd been laying the ground work for years.

TL;  DR  I can totally see Rick pulling something like this.  Convincing the boys they need to support him because he spent so many years and so much money supporting them.

 

[Four is Enough]

@Red Hair, Black Dress I was thinking that Mr. Arndt had the kids convinced that the family needed the support of ALL or it couldn't survive, so none of the kids will ever leave.

[nokidsmom]

@Red Hair, Black Dress that is quite the story about your ex-bf.  What an eye opener and I wasn't at all surprised to read you broke up shortly thereafter. 

4 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

and I suspect he'd been laying the ground work for years.

Exactly what I think Rick has been doing.   Don't know how early on he went into his own personal la la land but hearing about how one of the grandparents (forget which one) paid for private school for some of the older kids because of concerns over them being isolated shows that family priority to the point of stunting the kids has been going on for some time.   I don't think it was like Rick woke up one day and decided "I am going to manipulate my kids into supporting me in my retirement" it was more subtle but something happened with him and it was early on.  And perhaps unconsciously but no less damaging, Rick has managed to convince the kids that they should never leave, they are too needed.   I would love to know if any of the older ones have ever questioned their lot in life and wonder why they are still at home after all these years.  I can't imagine all of them are totally content with this, the tension in the house must be unbelievable but maybe that's what the Famteam is for.  Run off that tension.

ETA: not meaning to defend Rick by saying it was subtle and more unconscious but I know from experience it's not just the obviously mean SOBs that can do stuff like this.   Even seemingly nice men can convince themselves to manipulate out of what they justify as good intentions / reasons.    And those are the more dangerous ones but they can fool everyone, including themselves that it's all right and good.   My Dad is one of them.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

9 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

Don't know how early on he went into his own personal la la land but hearing about how one of the grandparents (forget which one) paid for private school for some of the older kids because of concerns over them being isolated shows that family priority to the point of stunting the kids has been going on for some time.  

I've been following this tragic tale for a couple of years now and knew about the older boys brief experience in private school, but had no idea that enrollment was at the suggestion of the grandparents.  Very telling indeed.

@Suz8710  Thanks for taking one for the team and catching the convo that Cathy had with "creepy guy" at the ball game.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Nokidsmom, It was a definite eye opener and probably the strangest parent-child relationship I've ever known about.

When he first told me I thought it was some outrageous story to hide what i assumed was a gambling addiction.  I pressed him to tell me the truth and that I'd help get him into a rehab program.  He insisted the story was true and to prove it showed me his check register with the recorded checks to dad each month

I was gobsmacked. It was several $1000s each month. He mentioned his brothers were sending similar large amounts, That in fact his 2 married brothers were sending more as their wives worked so the 3/4 salary was the combined household income.  Why the wives put up with it I'll never know. The BF indicated that when he married he'd do the same.

I think we broke up less than a week later and although I didn't tell him it was because of the insane paying dad for feeding me thing, I did tell him it wasn't a normal parent child relationship. He just told me I didn't understand how much his dad had done by feeding them and having a house to live in.

The brainwashing had to have started early in the BF's case, and I think Rick may have done the same.  Rick went one better though and has the working boys living at home so he gets 100% of their earnings. 

[MamaJunebug]

@Red Hair, Black Dress,thanks for sharing That story. It reminded me of an episode I'd forgotten, involving the 30-something "momma's boy" i knew who (like his brother) married in his 50s after his parents died.

On a tour of the family home, he was particularly proud of a large cardboard packing barrel full of all the toys he and his brother had owned.

He gushed, "Mother's kept them all because she loves us. How can mothers get rid of their little boys' toys?"

Payoff: The barrel appeared to be permanently situated in the second-floor hallway, by the bedrooms. 

Daily reminder of all the devotion and dreams for the sons to ... stay home? 

 

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Tell us MamaJB. Really, tell us all.  Truth is stranger than fiction and usually more entertaining

[MamaJunebug]

23 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Tell us MamaJB. Really, tell us all.  Truth is stranger than fiction and usually more entertaining

True on both counts but a little embroidery makes a good story better! I'll be Traveling on the train this weekend, will try to PM you some of the best parts of the story. It really does get repetitious after a while for everybody else.

I will mention, though that  unlike the Maxwell and the Arndt families, this family was hardly reclusive. Involved in their church, regular churchgoers, not fundamentalists, extremely well educated and well off, social climbers/aware. This sort of thing can happen anywhere!

[December]

20 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Convincing the boys they need to support him because he spent so many years and so much money supporting them.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet. I've known people whose parents raised them to believe crap like this. It's awful.

If a kid wants to make a nice gesture someday and help out their parents in their old age, or pay them back for college tuition or something, awesome. But if you're gonna back-charge your kid for the sort of necessities that the law says are mandatory for children to receive, don't have a kid.