Post-Rapture Introductions

[Angri-la]

Can you post some of the fundie blog links? I love laughing at them.

There is a nice list on the first page at the very top, but, here:http://freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12

[Aurora]

Welcome to the newbies. Snark away, but be warned, we're an opinionated bunch of bitches and someone is going to disagree with you at some point. Those who can defend and debate survive, those who don't....flounce. :snooty:

Have fun! :dance:

ETA: I'm a VF Intern and I didn't even notice until 12 posts in! I feel the hand of Dougie...on my husband...already!!!!111

Excellent, now get cracking removing our snarky comments from the VF FB page and planning Dougie's wardrobe for the next conference! :lol:

Welcome to the new snarkers! :)

[tkr322]

Okay so I will say I am pretty up on most of the big wigs at ATI and the big families involved with it besides the Duggars, but who is this Dougie fellow? I need some background here :)

[tkr322]

Oh and I know quite a few blogs that aren't linked up on here yet but honestly, I don't feel right linking them myself. If someone who is a mod here wants to message me I can PM you the links.

[loveandwar]

Welcome to the new snarkers!

[Austin]

Oh and I know quite a few blogs that aren't linked up on here yet but honestly, I don't feel right linking them myself. If someone who is a mod here wants to message me I can PM you the links.

You can just PM them to watchdog, who will be happy to add your blogs to the list.

[Buzzard]

Okay so I will say I am pretty up on most of the big wigs at ATI and the big families involved with it besides the Duggars, but who is this Dougie fellow? I need some background here :)

Check out the LOL doug thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24

and see if you recognize anyone (or anything...)

[browncoatslytherin]

welcome, welcome! :D always good to see new faces...err, names and avatars...

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I didn't realize more people didn't understand they were an actual family and not some bad photoshop...

Heh. I think I first heard of the Duggars specifically via the photoshop (the main one is when they have 16 kids, I think? and they're all matchy-matchy) on Fark or similar, and had to google. At which point, yay, more bizarre people that I like to read about! From there I found Television Without Pity, read some excellent threads over there (but of course when they'd get to talking just about fundamentalism or beliefs and not specifically the show, they'd be spanked or cancelled, which was annoying since that was the best part!) and thankfully someone mentioned the former incarnation of this forum, which I was thrilled to find.

Though now that you mention it, a photoshop of J'chelle as the tall lady with all the kids emerging from the skirt would be awesome.

[Mamajane]

I am a mother of a wonderful 2 year old. My dh and I have decided we most likely will only have one more child...maybe 2. We just want to be able to give our children their basic needs plus more! We want them to live comfortably and have the choice of going to a 4 year college. Why is our choice in the eyes of the duggar family so wrong. We want to be able to give our kids the time, love, and attention they need and deserve. It would be selfish of us to have 4 or more children when we would not be able to financially afford it! Also we are not planning on trying to have another child until our dd is at least 3! she is still a baby and needs mom and dads lap a little longer! Im thinking they would not agree with that either lol. Sorry for the rant, just frustrates me to read things about the duggar family pushing their beliefs on others who CLEARLY did not ask for their opinions! btw im happy i joined free jinger! Now i my dh doesnt have to listen to my complaints about fundies lol!!!

[snarkbillie]

It sounds like you realize your children are tiny people and not chattel. :)

[Mamajane]

lol yes you are right! Im sure this topic has been over done here but just wanted to throw out my frustration!

[lilwriter85]

I think the big reason the Duggars view people's choices to have small families as wrong is because of religion. The Duggars are the type of people who believe that God should choose the number of kids they have and some other fundie families will say the same thing. Some fundies will say that people who have small families are selfish and going against God.

I also understand your frustration about the Duggars. I don't know if I will ever have kids, but I would have 2 to 4 kids. The Duggars are annoying when it comes to them pushing their anti-birth control beliefs on others.

[shangrila]

What else they think god should decide for them? Because choosing the number of your kids is the biggest responsibility with serious consequences for a bunch of other people too. You cannot throw the responsibility on God for such an important decision. What other responsibilities and adult decisions do they want to blame on God, who does not even give clear commands to them, so they are kinda left guessing?

[SealFan1963]

I guess the Duggars don't think that God gives people common sense and expects them to use it. Maybe Josie's premature birth and the miscarriage was God's way of telling them to stop!

They remind me of this story about the man whose house was flooding and a truck, canoe, boat, and helicopter all offer to rescue him, but he insists that God will provide. The man dies and goes to heaven and asks God why he didn't provide for him and God says, I sent you a truck, canoe, boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?

Plus, not everyone is meant to be the parent of many children, I certainly am not. I have two kids and they are more than enough for me and my husband. I think God appreciates people who are smart enough to recognize their limitations.

[cindyluvs24]

My mother used to say "quality, not quantity", and "they're not potato chips - you can stop at one."

[lilwriter85]

I guess the Duggars don't think that God gives people common sense and expects them to use it. Maybe Josie's premature birth and the miscarriage was God's way of telling them to stop!

They remind me of this story about the man whose house was flooding and a truck, canoe, boat, and helicopter all offer to rescue him, but he insists that God will provide. The man dies and goes to heaven and asks God why he didn't provide for him and God says, I sent you a truck, canoe, boat and a helicopter. What more did you want?

Plus, not everyone is meant to be the parent of many children, I certainly am not. I have two kids and they are more than enough for me and my husband. I think God appreciates people who are smart enough to recognize their limitations.

This. The Duggars will never use common sense.

[xReems]

The Duggars lives revolve around God and the Bible. There's nothing wrong with that but they take it to the extreme in that they believe the Bible is "the rule book" and should be followed. For them, children is a reward from God and if you refuse his precious rewards, you're being selfish and only thinking of yourself. They think they're good Christians because they allow God to decide how many children they should have yet uses their own children to help raise the younger ones since they can't even handle them on their own.

[jenny_islander]

What frustrates me to no end is that they are all over the news talking about how their choice to have baby after baby is "Biblical," as if they are reading it right out of the Bible. They base their decision to have Michelle get pregnant over and over on one verse in one psalm. Here it is (New International Version):

Psalm 127

A song of ascents. Of Solomon.

1 Unless the LORD builds the house,

the builders labor in vain.

Unless the LORD watches over the city,

the guards stand watch in vain.

2 In vain you rise early

and stay up late,

toiling for food to eat—

for he grants sleep to those he loves.

3 Children are a heritage from the LORD,

offspring a reward from him.

4 Like arrows in the hands of a warrior

are children born in one’s youth.

5 Blessed is the man

whose quiver is full of them.

They will not be put to shame

when they contend with their opponents in court.

What is in the quiver? Arrows. What do the arrows represent? Children "born in one's youth." Not "born to a grand multipara on the verge of menopause who weans early in order to get pregnant again." The song is about how good it is for a man to have his children early. Why? Because there was a widespread belief that people who didn't have any children were being punished for something. So if you're having an argument with somebody, they can shut you down by going, "Well, YOU don't have any kids. Obviously you're a terrible sinner." And who debated publicly? Nearly all of the time, it was men.

We wishy-washy context-citing types note that God does indeed promise people--Abraham most notably--that they will have a lot of descendants as a sign of His favor. We also note that Sarah had one child. Abraham had two. The Twelve Patriarchs of the Twelve Tribes of Israel were not all born to one woman. Etc. We also note that the Bible itself identifies much of its own text as not directly revealed from God. Note the header of the psalm above: "A song of ascents. Of Solomon." This is not added by the translators. Solomon wrote this psalm, that is, this religious song, to be used in a particular religious situation called "ascents." There are 15 "songs of ascents." Rabbi Naftali Silberberg rounds up accepted explanations here: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_c ... scents.htm In short, maybe they were sung while somebody was ascending from a literal or figurative lower place to a higher place, or they were sung according to a tune that got higher as the song went on, or perhaps they were called "songs of ascents" because they are generally happy songs, or maybe because they were once the vehicle of a miracle of ascending waters. Whatever a "song of ascents" may be, this one was written by a human being, expressing his love for God as best he knew. It is not a prophecy or a commandment. Certainly not a commandment to go and have children until your wife splits her womb!

[Nothing2CHere]

I think the big reason the Duggars view people's choices to have small families as wrong is because of religion. The Duggars are the type of people who believe that God should choose the number of kids they have and some other fundie families will say the same thing. Some fundies will say that people who have small families are selfish and going against God.

Now, how do the Duggars know that people who only have a few numbers of kids haven't let God choose the number of kids they should have? Just because one is capable of having children doesn't mean that they have to keep reproducing like rabbits. I mean, why couldn't it be possible that some couples have prayed for guidance and feel that God only wanted them to have two or three children. Would the Duggars tell these families that the message they received from God was wrong?

Actually, yes, they probably would.

[Deleted07]

Now, how do the Duggars know that people who only have a few numbers of kids haven't let God choose the number of kids they should have?

Exactly!

My sister is a staunch Catholic, but we are not on speaking term for various reasons like her hypocrisy... But I digress... My point is she believes in no birth control and 'I'll have as many babies as my man wants me to have' crap. She only has two children (12 and 10) and has been married 15 years! She's 35, and last I had heard they were actually seeing a fertility doctor on trying to get at least two more babies out before the big M hits! (moreso because it was her husbands wishes! He always wanted a football team, and was disappointed to have only had two so far *eyeroll*)

So yeah by all means you could be doing everything like the Duggars, and just not fall pregnant each year! Everyone woman's body is different, some women fall pregnant easily, others not so much..

[lilwriter85]

Now, how do the Duggars know that people who only have a few numbers of kids haven't let God choose the number of kids they should have? Just because one is capable of having children doesn't mean that they have to keep reproducing like rabbits. I mean, why couldn't it be possible that some couples have prayed for guidance and feel that God only wanted them to have two or three children. Would the Duggars tell these families that the message they received from God was wrong?

Actually, yes, they probably would.

I agree, they would say the message is wrong.

[lilwriter85]

Exactly!

My sister is a staunch Catholic, but we are not on speaking term for various reasons like her hypocrisy... But I digress... My point is she believes in no birth control and 'I'll have as many babies as my man wants me to have' crap. She only has two children (12 and 10) and has been married 15 years! She's 35, and last I had heard they were actually seeing a fertility doctor on trying to get at least two more babies out before the big M hits! (moreso because it was her husbands wishes! He always wanted a football team, and was disappointed to have only had two so far *eyeroll*)

So yeah by all means you could be doing everything like the Duggars, and just not fall pregnant each year! Everyone woman's body is different, some women fall pregnant easily, others not so much..

This is true. I can picture the Duggars telling a couple with 1 or 2 kids, who is having trouble getting pregnant again to pray to God or something to open the womb. I think the Duggars and some fundie families assume that all couples with a few kids chose to have small families. They probably don't know if health problems kept couples from having more kids.

[Islandmom]

Hello all! I thought I'd introduce myself. I have been lurking for several months. I am not sure exactly how I found this site, but I believe it was when I was googling one of the blogs I was reading at the time. You all really have saved me from a slippery slope!.

My first experience with fundies was back when I was working on my masters in family therapy. I worked at a children's cancer center and one of the families I treated was fundie...quiverfull, homeschoolinhg, submissive, you name it. I worked extensively with the mom as she was the caregiver and with her child all the time. I was fascinated, but didn't know what I was seeing. They were seriously poor, but God would take care of them as they kept having more babies, with a sick toddler. Before that, growing up in the south I saw lots of evangelical Christians (lots of fundi lite) but never anything like this.

Several years later, I started to explore the world of homeschooling. We lived in PA then, and I had been told by the pediatrician and an educational specialist that I should explore homeschooling as our district did not have any gifted programs. My daughter had just turned 3 then, but was working on a first-third grade level. So I tried a homeschool co-op and well, their were fundies everywhere. I did not have a lot in common with many of the parents but I was somewhat taken in by the outside appearance of everything. You know, the sweet voice, calm mother, happy smiling children. As someone who has always suffered from depression and anxiety, that seemed so appealing. However before I could get to sucked in, we moved across the country for DH's job to the Alaskan Bush (an island in the Aleutian Chain to be more specific LOL!) I felt lost at first...Isolated, 800 air miles from a mall, target, walmart...anything! The only way off was by boat or plane, and there is only so much to see on 7 miles of roads...LOL. I had high hopes for my daughter and the school system here. I convinced the school to have her assessed by the developmental psy when he flew in...and was crushed when they ignored all his suggestions, and I was actually told "sometimes gifted kids just have to be miserable in school." That didn't sit well with me. I understood that they didn't know what to do with her. Heck I don't either, but to do nothing when the developmental psy stated after 3 days of testing, that if we let her work at her pace she would easily be working on her PhD at 15, seems cruel. So homeschooling was decided on, and of course I started reading blogs. Pictures of smiling families with many kids, happy homeschooling moms, clean and organized houses, home cooked meals, all stared back at me. I started to get sucked in. I wanted that. I wanted peace after the turmoil my life had been for the past 4 years (long story). They portrayed peace in their blogs. I started thinking about wearing skirts, having more kids (even though I almost died with my first and live very far from the medical care I would need), started thinking I should be more submissive...overall they seemed to value the mom at home, which was something I was struggling with at the time. I had gone to college, had gotten a master's, had always planned to work (especially after my daughter started school) and now here I was doing what was best for her, but I myself craved the value and higher purpose that they seemed to have.

Then one day I ended up here, and having not drank the kool aid quite yet, my eyes were opened to all the stuff I used to know before I became so confused. Opened to my true values. I was appalled at the lack of reproductive rights for women that they espoused. I want my daughter to be anything she wants to be as long as she is happy. Most fundies would disagree strongly with my family as my daughter is bi-racial, my husband Asian. I went to an all women's college that was big on feminism and had a very active lesbian community, many of whom I am still friends with today. I look back at those few months were I started to get sucked in and wonder how did that happen.

So I just want to thank you all. This site brought me back to me. I am still homeschooling. I am happy being an equal with my husband. I don't need to feel like being home is a higher calling. It is where we are right now, what I have to do right now, and I am loving it. I get angry when I read the blogs and the links on here. The hatred and bigotry that so many of the fundies spout is painful. It is scary to know that when a women is searching, those blogs can serve as a means to suck her in. Luckily I woke up.

Anyway, that's my intro in a nut shell. It's cold here, been blowing 80mph+ all day, and my dog and kid tore up my house from being stir crazy. Now I have to actually go pick up sense the heat guy is coming in the morning (only one zone of my heat is working...not a good thing in Alaska) LOL. Just want to say THANKS!!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

Welcome, and may the snark be with you!