BBC's Virgin Daughters

[EllieCee]

Taken from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3320&start=20

I saw that a number of people have seen it, and I thought it might be a good topic for discussion.

My takes:

- I thought it was creepy how the one little girl answered questions. It was as if her father was telling her EXACTLY what to say. Her father also gave me the heebie jeebies. He's got her so brainwashed.

- The blessing of the daughters made me feel uneasy. They all looked like they were just dying for their father's praise. I mean, I'm sure we all want our fathers to love us and be proud of us, but they had that strange pining look in their eyes. It was as if they worshipped him.

- The story about the woman who got pregnant out of wedlock made me sad. Especially when she started talking about how her mother lost full trust in her. It just seems so ridiculous to me to shut out your child like that.

- I'm not sure but, it's okay for men to give "little pieces of their heart" away? I think at least two of the women said that their husbands have been with other women?

What bothers me the most is that things like this put into those girls' heads is that they're only as worthy as their virginity. Their full worth is dependent on whether or not their cherry has been popped. Not on how smart, caring, or talented they are, but on how pure they could be. While very young girls sleeping around isn't a good thing, this whole "purity madness" thing can be just as destructive. They're setting those girls up to get abused by creeps. It makes me so sad.

Got anything to say? Feel free to discuss.

[slh12280]

As someone who believes in the no sex before marriage thing, I have to say that this was weird. This should be something that is a personal choice between yourself or yourself and God. This has nothing to do with your father. If you make a adult commitment you shouldn't need this intensive supervision. I think my father would be pretty weirded out if I wanted him to protect my virginity. Then again, he is the one who wants me to get out and date people.

[longskirts]

I also believe in no sex before marriage and I think the purity balls, pledges, rings, etc. are extremely disturbing. If you believe something is the right choice, you do it because you think it's right. Not because you signed a pledge or joined a group. These parents are taking something that could be a normal decision to wait for marriage and turning it into this high-pressure thing. I think it actually makes girls who do want to wait for marriage feel like they can't be successful at it because it's saying to them, "You couldn't make this decision and just follow through on it independently. You have to have all these pledges and rings and reminders at every turn, because we don't trust you and you can't trust yourself."

[AnnoDomini]

Add me to the list of people believing in waiting for sex. I don't think the father should be that kind of involved in his daughter's virginity. I do not want to discuss my virginity with my father, much less pledge anything to him. The blessing of the father was really... The father should not be on a pedestal.

[bananacat]

I don't believe that everyone should avoid premarital sex, and I think each individual person needs to decide for themselves when the time is right.

But these people don't care at all about giving away pieces of their hearts. They only care about hymens. Women have so little worth to them that if they can't fulfill the duty of being a virgin on their wedding night, they're just useless. I feel so bad for these girls because when they grow up and get married, it will be really hard for them to throw of the sex guilt even when they are with their own husbands.

[Kitty]

This is like, 3rd world shit going on here. The only worth a woman has is in her intact hymen and hopefully fertile uterus/ovaries.

When a woman loses her virginity before marriage over there, she's useless. She has no hope for marriage.

What if these girls get raped? I don't doubt that they will be blamed for it. And in a country that's as free as the US is supposed to be, these girls will never be 'able' to marry, since they are 'damaged goods.' They're not virgins anymore, even though they'd much rather be. They will have no worth since they can't give the 'gift' of virginity to their husbands.

[ChunkyBarbie]

This is like, 3rd world shit going on here. The only worth a woman has is in her intact hymen and hopefully fertile uterus/ovaries.

When a woman loses her virginity before marriage over there, she's useless. She has no hope for marriage.

What if these girls get raped? I don't doubt that they will be blamed for it. And in a country that's as free as the US is supposed to be, these girls will never be 'able' to marry, since they are 'damaged goods.' They're not virgins anymore, even though they'd much rather be. They will have no worth since they can't give the 'gift' of virginity to their husbands.

Yes! I always wonder if some of those hymen obsessed sick fucks secretly wish they could practice female mutilation or put their daughters in chastity belts.

Edited because I can't even spell chastity.

[alaeangelorum]

At the risk of sounding pedantic, it's not a BBC documentary, it's Channel 4 which is another British terrestrial broadcaster (that tends to go for the more controversial of subjects)... just thought I'd clear that up.... :/

But yeah, it was weird. Don't understand why there are such young children at those events, who probably don't even know what they are promising to do.

[finleeport]

That was all really sick, almost incestuous. But speaking from a historical point of view, women were suppose to be chaste so that the husband could tell if any child she has is his.

But that's when mostly all women were seen as property, even slaves.

[jaelh]

This is like, 3rd world shit going on here.

What the..? Many parts of the The developing world have very liberal persons. Many very restrictive oil states are incredibly wealthy.

This has *nothing* to do with the third world.

[Feberin]

I found the documentary just gross and sickening. I also feel like they're turning purity into a pissing contest.

Girl 1-"I waited until I was married to have sex."

Girl 2-"Well I waited until I was married to kiss."

Girl 3-"Oh well we didn't even touch until we were married."

Pretty soon it will be no meeting at all before marriage.

[MonkeyMomma]

I'm on part 2 right now, and the one thing that keeps coming up for me is this: I absolutely LOATHE the whole "giving pieces of your heart away" nonsense. As if love (and physical affection, even) is some limited resource. That one is incapable of loving more than one person over the course of their life. It turns love into a commodity. Yuck.

[Daenerys]

It's a really strange argument to come from someone like Michelle Duggar. By the same logic she is incapable of loving Josie as much as Joy who she can't love as much as Josh because every child took a piece of her heart and left it incomplete for the next offspring.

[Lillian]

This was creeeeeeeepy. Really. I want to wait for marriage, but that is my personal decision, and has nothing at all to do with my father. EW. Ugh those poor girls :(

[moreorlessnu]

I didn't think the married daughter was too thrilled w/ her father's selection for her. She seemed upset (yet keeping sweet) about the fact that her husband had had girlfriends prior to meeting her. Plus, she couldn't get through her serenade/testimonial about her father during the purity ball. When a married woman weeps over how wonderful her father is, it reads as though her own husband is a disappointment by comparison.

[camdendayton]

Taken from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3320&start=20

I saw that a number of people have seen it, and I thought it might be a good topic for discussion.

My takes:

- I thought it was creepy how the one little girl answered questions. It was as if her father was telling her EXACTLY what to say. Her father also gave me the heebie jeebies. He's got her so brainwashed.

I can't imagine having parents that constantly hovered over you to make sure you were toeing the party line... horrible.

- The blessing of the daughters made me feel uneasy. They all looked like they were just dying for their father's praise. I mean, I'm sure we all want our fathers to love us and be proud of us, but they had that strange pining look in their eyes. It was as if they worshipped him.

I honestly forgot what I was watching for a second and thought the oldest daughter in this family was leaning in for a kiss when she hugged the dad after her "blessing," and the next couple girls also had the look in their eye that made me feel the same way. If this isn't a family cult I don't know what is. The way he talks to the documentarian when she asks about him being a kill-joy, the mom's seemingly-inability to do anything but cry, even at the purity ball (which btw, costs $89 per person to attend!!! - generationsoflight.com/html/purityballdetails.html) everyone has to talk about their dear-leader dad.

- I'm not sure but, it's okay for men to give "little pieces of their heart" away? I think at least two of the women said that their husbands have been with other women?

The women seem to see a man who has had prior relationships as "unfortunate" not ruined, or some such horrible thing. I'm not sure men would feel the same.

I also found the family with the dad in his 60s with lung cancer interesting. He obviously had unfortunate experiences and is thus urging his daughters to take a different path. Nothing wrong with that, and I like that he questions the worth of signing a pledge, but you can see how this might be the way many fundy-families start out and next thing you know they're living off the grid and beating children. I hope that they don't go down that road and that their experience at the ball can be a cherished memory for his daughters if he passes. And I hope they never go back again!

[Deleted03]

I also believe in no sex before marriage and I think the purity balls, pledges, rings, etc. are extremely disturbing. If you believe something is the right choice, you do it because you think it's right. Not because you signed a pledge or joined a group. These parents are taking something that could be a normal decision to wait for marriage and turning it into this high-pressure thing. I think it actually makes girls who do want to wait for marriage feel like they can't be successful at it because it's saying to them, "You couldn't make this decision and just follow through on it independently. You have to have all these pledges and rings and reminders at every turn, because we don't trust you and you can't trust yourself."

it's not that they are not good enough to do it by themselves, but that they don't give them the opportunity to change their minds. You may believe something at one point, does it mean that you have to be bound by it all your life, even if you feel at some point you change your opinion on it? Isn't it possible that a 12 year old girl who still has limited interest in guys, change her mind about sex once she actually has a boyfriend and experience desire? And the parents or society have no business telling them they can't change their mind on something personal.

[chaotic life]

I watched the TLC documentoary on this back when it came out. I'm not seeing this one is different. I actually think it's the same girls and fathers featured.

These things creep me OUT. I feel like these people started with something that sounded like a good idea to *them* and went so far down the path that they can't even SEE that it's pedophiliac at this point.

Actually, the SAHD movement was what got me OUT of fundieland. The more this movement grew, and the more they got focused on the purity of girls, the ickier it felt to me and the more I stepped away from it.

What really gets me pissed is that probably 90% of the parents doing this are just trying to salvage their own GUILT from their past, but think they can prevent it with their hcildren, and they cannot.

[Avalondaughter]

When I watched this documentary, I actually thought the folks featured weren't even as extreme as they could be. Could you imagine the Duggars or the Maxwells having their girls in tutus ballet dancing around the room, or wearing those gowns!!???!!!

I found it interesting that everyone kept talking about "purity" or staying "pure" and what it meant to them. There was also a constant obsession with being "beautiful". These girls put a lot of effort into their appearance. It seemed that beauty and purity went hand in hand.

I couldn't help but understand just a little of the fathers' points though. One of them said that girls will turn to sex and boyfriends because they don't feel loved by their fathers. It is certainly not uncommon for young women to turn to unhealthy sexual and romantic relationships to make up for lack of parental love and attention. I see the point here - it just doesn't need to be taken to an extreme like this. A loved and cherished daughter may still want to indulge in a different type of male-female relationship. I don't think it's healthy to have your father be a stand in for your boyfriend that you can't have. You do everything with your father you would do with your boyfriend except have sex? Would a father, even a caring, devoted, and concerned one even want to do that?

[moreorlessnu]

Since the documentary is from 2008, I'd love to see how the people are doing now, especially the girls who were in the 17 to 21 age range when this first aired.

[HowRude]

I agree I would love to see how the girls are doing now, I remember the documentary and thinking wow these girls are in for a rude awakening when they get older and figure out what is really out there instead of the stuff their parents are pushing down their throats. I had sort of a fundie upbringing and there were a lot of things that I thought concerning judgement of people that I found out was really dumb and narrow minded.

[Evie Teale]

I watched this last night while my husband was at work, after seeing it mentioned here. I'm going to be totally honest with you:

It scared the crap out of me.

This exactly where my girls are headed if we stay with my husband. In fact, if he knew that such a thing existed, he would have already taken them, even the six year-old. You have no idea, unless you've lived inside the fundy world, how sex-obsessed and scary it is. He already has my girls thinking that every boy they know wants to use and abuse them, and he has to "protect" them.

I think it starts out well meaning enough, but becomes just another way to keep them under control. I am so guilty for ever perpetuating this kind of thinking, but at least I see it now and am not going to allow it to scar my children any more than it already has.

[moreorlessnu]

I agree I would love to see how the girls are doing now, I remember the documentary and thinking wow these girls are in for a rude awakening when they get older and figure out what is really out there instead of the stuff their parents are pushing down their throats. I had sort of a fundie upbringing and there were a lot of things that I thought concerning judgement of people that I found out was really dumb and narrow minded.

What a kick in the butt it is to do everything right, to work hard at doing everything right, only to get clued in and realize that all that effort has only put you years and years behind your peers in your emotional development.