Seewalds 14- Baby can I hold you tonight?

[Carm_88]

32 minutes ago, Georgiana said:

but I still don't feel like that side is "my family" in any sort of inheritance or lineage way (though I love them).  

I am very much this way with my mother's side of the family. Not because they wanted me to be a boy but because as a female, why haven't I gotten married and pushed out my 2.5 kids yet? What is the matter with me? Why am I not married? Shouldn't I do this and shouldn't I do that? They're very old fashioned and women can't live without men. Annoys the piss out of me. And I annoy the piss out of them by saying "I don't need kids, I have cats." It works out. 

(Haven't decided either way about kids, just for now I have cats. And I hate people poking my uterus!) 

[kjmackin]

Yea I find it creepy the level of focus on having a biological male child to pass the "name" on to a biological male grandchild.

My FIL take this belief to the next level. His focus lately has been all about having grand kids. Citing he's getting old and would like to see his second chance American children's kids.* Along with how all four of them must name at least one kid after him. Example My SIL (FIL adoptive daughter) had her little potato last June instead of calling her by her given name Teagan he calls her Henryitta  even after being corrected. Before the baby was born he made plans of kidnaping the child if it was a boy.**

He also disowned my husband due to our decision not to have children. Calling me a fair amount of names because I bewitched my husband by making him chose not to have children and getting snipped. While MIL was not happy about the idea of his choosing not to have children at least on outwards appearances seems okay with it. Although I think a part MIL struggles is that she knows very few people to choose the childfree path. My younger BIL (named after FIL) just got engaged so odds are that they are being pressured to have kids right away but both him and his fiancé have baby fever going already.

Although following the issues with my FIL  it makes me happy for my family because my parents had no issue accepting our decission. I also don't have to worry about grand parents because four out of five are dead and the one that's still alive is my mom's mom. But my mother side of the family never involved in my life and if I saw any of them in Walmart I would be unable to recorganize them. As for my dad's side only his sisters ( he had two brothers but I never actually knew them either) & their children played a role in my life and maybe because they were girls the importance of the family name to be carried on was never there in my upbringing. 

 

* My FIL had a whole other family in Cuba before he left for the States. Something my husband only just recently found out about.

** While it might not be actually kidnapping but I have spent time in if there is any legal claims my FIL could have on the child. Just as long as my SIL & her kid never spend more then six months living with him there is very little chance that the court would side in his favor even for visitions rights. 

[DaniLouisiana]

My daughter has the first 'grandson' problem with her ex-inlaws. Her son is not the first grandson, his cousin is and that child is the most spoiled, awful brat that I have ever seen! He spit in his father's face, not once but several times before being told, "that's not nice,J, please stop." . This was at GrandBoy's birthday party. We finally insisted, after more bad behavior, that he be taken home. His parents left as expected but so did the birthday boy's shared grandparents. J was rewarded with more presents than Grandboy had received- this is common occurrence.

[Shadoewolf]

There was HUGE competition between my ex and his older brother because my ex-FIL is very traditional Polish Catholic. He, the ex and my daughters are descendants from some line of Polish royalty.  In his world a boy would be very highly valued. I never cared either way, was happy with my 2 girls. But my ex-SIL and BIL were so desperate to be the "favorite" and have a boy that they told everyone  (after already having 2 girls) that a scan at 10 weeks (yeah right!) revealed their 3rd child was the sought-after boy. We tried to be realistic, warn them to wait but no. They bought everything blue, had the name painted and screened on everything, ohh they were adamant! Until an anatomy scan at 24 weeks very clearly showed a girl. Neither of the guys were ever able to father a boy. The pressure and the feeling of competition was very real, the disappointment from ex-FIL when ultrasounds revealed girls was almost tangible. All because tradition and religion said a boy was more valuable. The "name" and Polish tradition had to carry on and our daughters will marry and eventually change their names so that wouldn't happen. 

[eveandadam]

6 hours ago, Percy said:

 

 

I grew up in a very sexist, male dominated family.  Generally from my mother more than my father.  She placed great emphasis on how special it was to have 3 sons.

 

It is so interesting to observe family dynamics based on gender/sex. I grew up a very patriarchal, sexist family. my family is not religious just very sexist. to the point where girls wouldnt be allowed to talk at the dinner table and had to serve the men and sexist offences every single day. my father and his brother are the most extreme. my grandfather actually not so much, he is a sweetheart. he has always loved his grandaughters, great-grand daughters and sisters. I'm really not sure why my father and uncle turned out the way they did.

I am an only child and a girl. So my father was extremely disappointed that I was not a boy. My mother refused to have another child because of financial and political circumstances which made my father really sad.

Now I see my father and uncle interact with their grandsons and nephews which is much more supportive than with their granddauthers or nieces. when boys to something smart they are suddenly praised us highly gifted and geniuses. when girls do, it is just overlooked and seen as a coincidance, nothing more.

I have now married into a matriarchally structured family and I love it.  I have never been showered with so much appreciation in my life.

 

[smallestneal]

11 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I want to cosign all of this. Even though I'm cis, my childhood was frequently made miserable by people (read: my mother and her family members) shaming me because I hated wearing dresses, didn't play with dolls, and lacked interest in girly things overall. I was into art, books, and stuffed animals (I had a freakin' zoo of them), but I was always considered "weird" because I wanted Creepy Crawlers instead of an Easy Bake Oven and didn't like playing dress-up. As a teenager (and as an adult), I catch hell because I don't care about makeup and am not interested in fashion. I have some girly-identified interests, like knitting and sewing, but I'd rather spend the day in a dentist's chair than at the mall (unless I could stay in the bookstore and go nowhere else). I find pedicures torturous, but that's because I'm very ticklish on my feet.

That said, I don't look down on people (women, men, or nonbinary) who enjoy stereotypically girly stuff. I just wish it weren't so compulsory. My family's religion (Southern Baptist) played a huge role in the way I was treated, so I really feel badly for all the little Duggarlings who have it much worse in this area. 

Oh, man. Creepy Crawlers. I had that and I'd since forgotten it existed! But yeah, I grew up in an extremely conservative, evangelical Christian area so I knew a lot of people Like This, including in my own family. It's sad, because while it's one thing to hope for a girl or a boy, it's another to want a certain-gender kid so bad because you've constructed a personality for them based on gender roles before they're even born--then being upset or disappointed in the kid if or when they don't meet your expectations.

A lot of the people I know who are like that also constantly put their kids in onesies w/things like "lock up  your daughters" or "sorry boys, my dad says I can't date til I'm married" on the front. No offense to anybody but it seems very very strange to me to so aggressively assert your infant's heterosexuality like that (LOL).

[louisa05]

My daughter has the first 'grandson' problem with her ex-inlaws. Her son is not the first grandson, his cousin is and that child is the most spoiled, awful brat that I have ever seen! He spit in his father's face, not once but several times before being told, "that's not nice,J, please stop." . This was at GrandBoy's birthday party. We finally insisted, after more bad behavior, that he be taken home. His parents left as expected but so did the birthday boy's shared grandparents. J was rewarded with more presents than Grandboy had received- this is common occurrence.

My brother got presents on my birthday from our paternal grandparents. We were visiting them when I turned either 4 or 5 and they gave me a little coloring book and pack of three crayons--the kind they probably got for free somewhere. My brother got a stack of brightly wrapped big gifts. I don't remember what his were, I just remember sitting at the table with my pathetic little coloring book thinking "but it's MY birthday". It was the first year I absorbed it.

In my teens, I started getting separate cards from grandpa with extra cash. And my brother started realizing how terrible it was. Grandpa was gone by the time I turned 21. That year, my grandma sent me $5 and sent my brother 50. He was nearing 27 then and was so disgusted that he gave me the whole $50.

[Jess]

This happened in my family the favorite grand kid of one of my grandmothers was the oldest son's oldest son. He was not the oldest grandson either. He could do no wrong. When I started college, as the first grandchild to go, I was told that what I was doing was nice and all but not to worry when he outshone me because he was special and god had plans for him. Keep in mind he was a 28 year old high school drop out who worked at Walmart part time and lived with his parents. Apparently, that was so much better then me. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

23 hours ago, Queen said:

Oh I hate it when people go all "I want a boy so I can play fotball/soccer with him" or "I want a girl so I can go shopping with her!".  Kids of any gender can play sports and shop for clothes, and I feel really bad for these people's kids because it is very likely they'll feel lots of pressure conforming to rigid gender roles. 

 

When I was born, people told my Dad (who is German) it was a shame I was a girl since he is so into football (soccer). When my brother was born, they all said how nice it was to have a boy to share his love of the German national team/his Bundesliga team with. My Dad apparently just told them 'they'll like what they want to like anyway'. 

I grew up to love following (and when I was younger, playing) football while my brother does not have two single fucks to rub together about the Bundesliga and couldn't name you two players from the German national team that won the World Cup in 2014 even if you offered him a million euros to do so. 

I find that amusing given how pretty much everyone expected it to be the other way around because of our biological genders. 

This will surprise a lot of people, but the reproductive organs someone is born with doesn't actually what dictates what they person will be interested in as a hobby.

[SilverBeach]

@Chickenbutt, you're alright with me. Your posting history shows you to be a kind, compassionate, and funny person. FWIW, I think some of the reactions to your post were a bit extreme. It was no big sociopolitical statement, for heaven's sake.

I wanted a girl and as it turned out, I had one. But I didn't know the gender before delivery and would have had no disappointment with a boy. At seventeen days overdue, I just wanted that baby out of me! Just because there is a preference doesn't mean there's an earth shattering letdown when the opposite shows up!

My daughter has my last name. I was not, nor did I want to be, married to her dad. When I did finally marry at 50, I hyphenated to satisfy husband, but regretted it. After we divorced I got rid of the hyphen, and felt like myself again. I have a unique first name and a last name that melodically flows with it. It's my identity.

That said, I have no judgement against those who change their name after marriage. There is something to be said for having the same last name, it's administratively simpler if there are children. That's one reason I gave my daughter my last name, I was raising her as a single mom and wanted us clearly identified as a family unit deserving of the same respect as any married family unit. 

I believe to each their own applies here.

ETA: DD kept her last name when she married. He had a Polish name that she didn't care for. No children though.

[front hugs > duggs]

Wasn't sure this was the place for this but...Bill Nye for the win!Bill Nye in being Pro Choice hope this works !

[fraurosena]

My dad has only one brother, and they share a very unique last name. Everyone with this last name is related in some way, but my dad and his brother are from a distinct branch on the family tree. It isn't very surprising that carrying on their last name is something they both wanted to do. Then, life happend. My dad had two children, my brother and me. My uncle had six children, four boys and two girls. So with five boys in the new generation, they were pretty sure the name would be passed on. However,  nature is capricious, and she chose for all the boys to have only daughters, and us girls only have sons. Alas, the name on this branch of our family tree will end with my generation.

This fact, although somewhat disappointing for my dad and uncle, never ever made any difference in how they felt toward or treated any of their children or grandchildren!

As an aside, I'm pretty interested in my family's genealogy. So I've done quite a bit of reasearch, and I'm quite lucky to have been able to trace my roots back across a couple of male lines. To my delight, I have also managed to trace back my ancestry through the female line quite a way, right back to the 1600's. I must admit though, that although I  was incredibly lucky to have my three boys (which was my preference), I was slightly disappointed that I don't have a daughter to continue the female line . 

[MamaJunebug]

Y'know.... as overall great as Big Daddy & Big MamaJB were, now & then my insect brain remembers something bad about them.

But reading the misery some of y'alls' relatives put you thru, I have to brag on my folks:

BD was descended of a guy of some note, & our surname really resonates in some quarters. BM told me that when my brother - Dad's only son - was born, she asked him if he was glad to "finally" have a boy. Dad shrugged and said "all girls would've been just fine" with him. 

And Dad was very respectful of his ancestors' stories. All of his ancestors. 

As it happens the great & storied name has "died out" as of my generation. It's probably all for the best - not many of us, from my generation on down, are as devoted to his cause as was our ancestor.

To me it's more disrespectful to lie and say we are, than to acknowledge that he did some pretty great work...but can I show you MY résumé? I'm the one needing a job, here!!! 

>8-D

[nastyhobbitses]

2 hours ago, smallestneal said:

Oh, man. Creepy Crawlers. I had that and I'd since forgotten it existed! But yeah, I grew up in an extremely conservative, evangelical Christian area so I knew a lot of people Like This, including in my own family. It's sad, because while it's one thing to hope for a girl or a boy, it's another to want a certain-gender kid so bad because you've constructed a personality for them based on gender roles before they're even born--then being upset or disappointed in the kid if or when they don't meet your expectations.

A lot of the people I know who are like that also constantly put their kids in onesies w/things like "lock up  your daughters" or "sorry boys, my dad says I can't date til I'm married" on the front. No offense to anybody but it seems very very strange to me to so aggressively assert your infant's heterosexuality like that (LOL).

I find that sort of thing so weird. I mean, sure, a couple frilly outfits for a baby girl won't hurt anyone (my mom likes to joke that she was both delighted when I was able to dress myself, and sad that she couldn't truss me up in "adorable" outfits anymore), and a couple football-y sorts of things for boys is probably fine, but when I see these very sexualized slogans on baby clothes or essentially slapping this shallow, stereotypical, gender-based personality on a BABY, I see red. I'm glad that my parents didn't try to force me to be girly; I liked plenty of girly stuff without any help from anyone (I wore my Belle costume to preschool every day for a good two months), but I also liked woodworking, playing Quake II, and reading history books. I mean, I still like all of those things, but my point is, as a kid, my parents weren't obsessed with molding me into a Girl; they let me be a girl who happened to be plenty of other things too.

Though even today, I still get people saying "oh, guess your dad wanted a boy" when I talk about how when I was a kid, my dad and I would go camping, do woodworking projects together, and home-brew beer. No, he just likes sharing his interests with me and spending time with me. He just as happily played Barbies with me and sang Disney songs in the car.

[OyToTheVey]

On 1/16/2017 at 11:29 PM, princessmahina said:

Really? That's interesting. In the US, it's pretty unusual and would definitely get some side-eye from non-fundies. I'm not overly-familiar with American Jewish culture, so I can't say if it would be unusual for them.

I'm in NYC, tons of people here named Israel. Very common name in my area.

[Snarkle Motion]

9 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm in NYC, tons of people here named Israel. Very common name in my area.

I'm from the Midwest. I mostly associate it with older men from a different generation but I know a younger guy with the name. And a Latino guy who may or may not be Jewish. I never know, there is a whole group of Jews who emigrated to Latin America before the United States during the holocaust and are ethnically confusing. 

[nastyhobbitses]

22 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I'm from the Midwest. I mostly associate it with older men from a different generation but I know a younger guy with the name. And a Latino guy who may or may not be Jewish. I never know, there is a whole group of Jews who emigrated to Latin America before the United States during the holocaust and are ethnically confusing. 

There's also a group of Jews in El Salvador who were descended from Jews in Spain who were forcibly converted by the Inquisition. They were ostensibly Catholic in El Salvador, but kept up some of the old traditions, and for generations just sort of figured that they were just kinda quirky. Then one guy managed to go to college on scholarship (very poor and rural area) and came back saying "hey guys, I think we're actually Jewish". They're in the process of officially "re-converting" to Judaism (not the whole village, but a whole lot of people).

[missegeno]

Chiming in here:

My grandparents had one son and multiple daughters. Grandpa loved the son but wasn't excited about daughters. As it turned out, the son has had the hardest life because he's the one who grandpa spent time with, and therefore bore the vast majority of his abuse. Essentially, the girls escaped a lot of abuse through neglect. Not ideal, but the difference in how they've adjusted as adults is marked. He did have one child, a daughter, so the name with abusive lineage ended when she married.

My mom really wanted a girl. Well, she didn't want a kid at all, but didn't go through with the abortion she scheduled. When it came out a boy, her first words were "just what I've always wanted!" I was then born to keep him from being a "weird only child." My brother and i have never taken offense from these stories, which we've heard over and over. Our mom loved us so much it was annoying. More, it demonstrated that no preconceived notions or preferences compare to actually meeting your child for the first time. It demonstrated that it's ok to have doubts and maybe not want a family, and that those doubts don't impede the love that you feel if and when you take the plunge. It is reassuring to me as i think about having children, that while i may dream about braiding a daughter's hair in intricate patterns, I'd still love a boy with all my heart and there's no loss in that. It taught me that as much as society asks "what are you hoping for," the flood of oxytocin washes that all away. And it taught me that its ok if i am scared and that I don't have to feel 100% ready or 100% certain. I can love an unexpected child just as much as one who was desperately wanted through years of infertility. Initial thoughts don't make me (or her, or anyone) a lesser mother. It's the love and care a parent provides that's the true test.

Tha said, i see that a lot of people here have been hurt by sexism and feeling unwanted, and i don't want to diminish that. Just sharing my family's story since i found the contrast interesting.

[princessmahina]

1 hour ago, OyToTheVey said:

I'm in NYC, tons of people here named Israel. Very common name in my area.

Interesting. I'm familiar with the south and midwest and it's not a name that's common in my experience. I can see why things would be different in urban centers though.

[Analytica49]

On 2017-01-26 at 5:43 PM, Carm_88 said:

His little satisfied face at the end! Awwww! 

You know what amazes me about this?

It's the fact that Jessa apparently knows how to use an apostrophe.

She got the possessive form of "Daddy" correct, and she even put an apostrophe to indicate the missing "g" in "Tryin'".

I'm so used to these people writing at the level of a grade two child, this achievement of correct punctuation is startling.

Actually, I may be underestimating grade two children--I'm sure many of them write better than most of the Duggar spawn.

 

 

[DaniLouisiana]

I had the first grandson/child in both of our families. The grands were never the problem;my husband's brother was the big problem! How dare his little brother have the boy-that should be his right! So psychotic(yes, medically diagnosed)  BIL tried to kidnap Bigfoot twice, once before his second birthday and once as a teen. We cut contact with the inlaws for awhile after we moved out when they just wouldn't respect the "no BIL around the kids".

[nastyhobbitses]

3 minutes ago, DaniLouisiana said:

I had the first grandson/child in both of our families. The grands were never the problem;my husband's brother was the big problem! How dare his little brother have the boy-that should be his right! So psychotic(yes, medically diagnosed)  BIL tried to kidnap Bigfoot twice, once before his second birthday and once as a teen. We cut contact with the inlaws for awhile after we moved out when they just wouldn't respect the "no BIL around the kids".

I know that we've seen in fundie circles that sex offenders can hang around little kids (including their victims) without question or second glance, but what would possess your presumably non-fundie in-laws to continue letting your BIL stay around the child he tried to abduct? TWICE?

[DaniLouisiana]

@nastyhobbitses, he was that "special, holy" first born male. Also, we have learned recently, with my FIL's passing, that FIL had alot of concerns about how things "look" to those outside the family-his Church (SB), his Gideons group and his Kiwanis(?sp). Much less concerned with endangering my kids and me. They didn't even kick him out when he was cooking crack cocaine down the hall. We refused to have anything to do with him after we left to our own home.

[Carm_88]

27 minutes ago, DaniLouisiana said:

@nastyhobbitses, he was that "special, holy" first born male. Also, we have learned recently, with my FIL's passing, that FIL had alot of concerns about how things "look" to those outside the family-his Church (SB), his Gideons group and his Kiwanis(?sp). Much less concerned with endangering my kids and me. They didn't even kick him out when he was cooking crack cocaine down the hall. We refused to have anything to do with him after we left to our own home.

Sounds like a real piece of work both your FIL and your BIL. Good on you guys for cutting off contact. 

[Analytica49]

I have to say I am appalled to hear how many of you had such horrible, gender-stereotyping grandparents. It's just sickening how damaging these biases can be.

I am now a grandmother. I have four grandsons, no granddaughters. And here's the interesting thing: Those four grandsons, little though they still are (two pairs of brothers), are fascinatingly different from each other. Their personalities are different; their abilities are different; their interests are VERY different from each other.

Some people are so darn concerned about reinforcing supposed gender differences. They never even notice that children are BORN with individual characteristics that will--if they are raised with support, love, understanding, and compassion--make them very different from each other even when they have the same genitalia.