Visionary Woman: 1st 2 years of college are review of HS?

[Witsec1]

So, Visionary Womanhood has a new post up about how her son is earning his college degree at age 18. First of all, congrats to him. That is an awesome achievement and he sounds like a smart and self-motivated kid. He used the College Plus program (throught a scholarship), but Natalie has some criticisms of College Plus I thought were interesting.

She gave me a wtf? moment though with this remark:

Did you know that the first two years of college are simply a review of high school?

Um, what? Maybe if you didn't actually learn anything in HS and have to take remedial courses, but I don't think anything in my first 2 years of college was review. There were placement tests, AP tests, etc all of which put me in the correct levels so I was not sitting around twiddling my thumbs. Maybe some concepts in science courses were familiar but with a few weeks we were going into new territory.

From whence comes this confident, sweeping statement that the entire first two years of college is "review"?

ETA: linkyness: visionarywomanhood.com/how-our-son-is-graduating-from-college-at-age-18/

[emmiedahl]

A lot of my first two years was review, but I was in honors classes in high school. I was held to higher standards in college, though. I had to like, study and shit.

[FuManchu]

A lot of universities do complain that they have to spend the first part of a degree course teaching the students things that they ought to have learned in school - but that's hardly the universities' fault if it's true.

[Nothing2CHere]

I have friends who teach college freshmen year English courses, and one of their biggest complaints is how many of their students still don't have basic grammar and writing skills down.

[Witsec1]

I was in Honors and AP classes in HS too. I don't get why the first 2 years of college HAS to be review. What colleges make you take Trig again if you ready for Calculus? I tested out of Freshman comp and into higher level German. Russian was definitely brand new. Probably had had some of the stuff in chemistry before, but we went so much deeper and further in college chem. For elective I chose stuff I hadn't taken before, like philosophy. I'm just wondering - what are the colleges that FORCE you to review high school if you are ready for more?

[emmiedahl]

I think that's why it was a review for me--I already had basic skills. I went to private school until high school and most of high school even seemed like a review. We had so much grammar in junior high classes that it was ridiculous! I know I don't write extremely well in forums like this one, but I am totally aware of the rules when I need to use them.

American colleges are among the most difficult in the world and our high schools are among the least challenging. It's quite a learning curve for many students.

I had to take Algebra and Trig over because my parents would not pay for the AP tests in high school, so I did not have the prerequisites needed for Calculus. It sucked a little bit because math is not my strong point and I prefer to get it over with as little time invested as possible. English comp is required at my college, period, no testing.

[keen23]

If you don't place high enough, I can see how some classes would be "review" classes. My first college roommate had to take a college level Algebra class her first semester, because she had only one year of Algebra in HS, not the two that were required to take Calculus. If you go into college without a specific degree track in mind, or a general track like "Humanities" you might wind up in some of the more large room classes that teach some basic stuff. But if you already know what you want, or think you know what you want, you can take some tailored GEDs that are more specific to your major.

If I can remember way back when, I think some of the intro classes I took were Econ 101 & 102, Accounting 101 & 102, English 101, etc.

[Jessica]

That's funny... I don't remember learning oceanography or advanced European history in high school!

[Linnea]

I went to an Eeebul Libbrul Arts college where my only requirements were to take at least two courses in each of four areas: science, social science, arts/literature, and foreign language. I honestly can't think of any courses that repeated what I had had in high school; they were all more specialized and in-depth.

[Witsec1]

I know there's a problem with freshmen not being prepared, and they should have to review and take remedial classes. I think it's a cryin' shame that high schools waste students' time in this way. But how often are bright students forced to do nothing but review the first 2 years of college? I think you could choose that and probably get away with it, but who's forcing you? Even if there are some stupid prereqs, it's not that hard to talk your way into a higher level class if you can show you know your stuff.

There are lots of schools that offer 3/2 MS/MA programs, also. My daughter is looking at a six year (compared to 8) program for Physical Therapy at Northwestern. They're not going to be wasting a lot time on review with that schedule!

[emmiedahl]

Obviously the electives and the scope of the classes is better in college. I think the post refers to all of the general ed requirements, which are duplicates of high school except with much high standards. But those higher standards are important! I tested well and still had to take them, it depends on your college. I don't think we are harmed as a society by demanding that a college graduate be able to write a coherent sentence and solve a quadratic equation.

I doubt fundies are taking things like Human Sexuality, Physical Anthropology, Gender in a Cross-Cultural Perspective and other classes that really change your world view. If you avoid getting a real education, then it truly is all review.

[GeoBQn]

Yeah, at my college the gen ed requirements were just to take classes that fulfilled certain content areas--Literature/Humanities, Social/Historical, Math/Science, and two Cultural Studies. It was entirely possible to take classes that fulfilled these requirements without repeating anything from high school. Astronomy 101 was a favorite for my theatre friends who had to get Math/Science credit because it had no prerequisites and was considered easier than a straight math or lab science class. Even if you ended up taking a subject that was covered in high school, like American History, it was going to cover the subject in more depth and require more intense critical thinking than a high school class.

And I certainly didn't learn anything in high school about how Star Trek commented on religion. Yes, that was an actual class I took my first semester.

[Witsec1]

I think that's why it was a review for me--I already had basic skills. I went to private school until high school and most of high school even seemed like a review. We had so much grammar in junior high classes that it was ridiculous! I know I don't write extremely well in forums like this one, but I am totally aware of the rules when I need to use them.

American colleges are among the most difficult in the world and our high schools are among the least challenging. It's quite a learning curve for many students.

I had to take Algebra and Trig over because my parents would not pay for the AP tests in high school, so I did not have the prerequisites needed for Calculus. It sucked a little bit because math is not my strong point and I prefer to get it over with as little time invested as possible. English comp is required at my college, period, no testing.

AP Algebra and Trig? There are no such beasts. That's high school math. You can take AP Calc (2 levels) or AP Stats.

[Maggie Mae]

Most of my gen ed classes at university were repeats of everything I learned in jr high/high school. However, it was my own fault. I went to a very good high school and jr high with a strong college prep program - most of my fellow students went to Ivy League or equally well regarded universities. I spent two years getting an associates at my local city college, then to a state university. Honestly, the courses that went into my associates were much more interesting, taught by instructors who seemed to get more out of teaching, and more difficult to pass.

[emmiedahl]

It's been a long time, I don't remember which were AP and which were Honors. I do remember the necessity of repeating classes in college because my cheap-ass parents would not pay for me to take the exams.

[clibbyjo]

A lot of Christian home schoolers have this argument. I don't know if THEIR kids need the basic classes more than a public school kid or they are just looking for more excuses to put down college. Many try to "clep out" of the basic stuff or have their kids take it at community college. I know several Christian homeschoolers who are "clepping" now.

My son starts community college next spring at age 15.5 and I hope he can transfer as a junior to where ever he ends up at age 18. (After looking up his top choices yesterday and seeing they all are over 50k a year, he really needs to save wherever he can) He might have to take the basic classes there because his transcripts are not normal, but I have unschooler friends who made their own transcripts and had no problem getting into the college of their choice without taking basic classes so who knows. He won't take SAT's until next year so I am kind just up in the air with it for now.

[Kitty]

College sophomore here. The general education requirements at my college include English, math, social studies, and science. It really depends on your placement, i.e., how well you do on the university exams (mine does have placement tests for math and foreign languages), and how well you do on AP exams. I did have to take biology and math over, and my AP score did not rescue me from the (advanced) composition class. But I'm taking other classes, that aren't offered in high schools, like women's studies and economics. I took a class about global politics last year.

She's a fucking idiot who likely fucked her son over.

[Rosa]

I repeated Calculus in my first year of college, because I had failed it in high school. And I didn't understand the whole testing process very well, so I had to take a freshman speech & reading class that I probably should have skipped, because it did recapitulate my high school experience with debate, theater, etc (but none of those were classes, just extracurriculars.)

Other than that, no repeats - I was completely over my head at the college level and nobody ever said to me, hey, this is going to be hard so maybe you shouldn't try to take everything at the highest level you can test into.

[Witsec1]

It's been a long time, I don't remember which were AP and which were Honors. I do remember the necessity of repeating classes in college because my cheap-ass parents would not pay for me to take the exams.

Are you sure you are remembering correctly? There's a lot that sucks about the American educational system, but I am just not going to believe that most colleges, or even any college, would make a student retake Algebra if they already knew Algebra. Community colleges will have *free* math placement tests. I'm saying, some students may need to review, some may choose to review for the easy A, but no one is forced to spin their wheels in college if they don't need to.

As for Freshman Comp, moar writing is always good, and usually you can pick the topics you write about, so I don't really think Freshman comp is a spinning wheels course, if it's really writing writing writing and not lecture. (run on sentence)

[emmiedahl]

I remember the math thing. The algebra was the highest course you could test into. And I did. I probably could have fought it, but I am not a fighter. :) I just does what they tell me. I could be forgetting something; my first round of college was when I was 17 and I am now 34.

I have had to take English Comp twice now in college. I received an A the first time, but then when I returned at 30, they told me that pre-req's needed to be completed in the last 10 years. So I took it again, easy A because I am a writer by trade.

I don't see repetition as a necessarily bad thing. Let's just say that I really, really know my algebra. The US university system is very different from many European colleges because the focus is on breadth of education. I have cousins and friends from other countries who were surprised I was taking Sociology when it is not related to my major, for example.

[crazyforkate]

Generally, we would have, like, one lecture (or maybe half of one) devoted to review for the science subjects, but that was mostly to refresh what we'd all forgotten since high school. From then on, it was new stuff. But then, I'm a humanities major so most of the stuff is totally brand new.

[QueenNocturne]

I tested out of a lot of classes in college through AP tests and my school's own placement testing. However, the 100 level classes I did take were certainly not review, as they either covered subjects my high school didn't or went into those subjects in greater detail.

Has Visionary Woman actually GONE to college?

[GenerationCedarchip]

I knew people whose first 2 years were basically high school review sorts of things. However, these were either people who couldn't place out of remedial or they were fundies from church who went to small Christian colleges (run of the mill BIble college, not the Christian schools that actually have really rigorous academics) where everyone took the same classes for the first couple years. And those classes were usually run at the lowest common denominator skill set.

[Witsec1]

Well, I would probably need to re-take pre-Algebra if I went back to school at this point ;)

I just don't want to believe that a college would make an incoming HS grad re-take Algebra if they passed it in high school or that Algebra is the highest course you can test into. A college track HS student will take Algebra 2 in 9th or 10 grade, and take at least pre-calc on top of that. Algebra is foundational, even in high school. If you don't mind saying, what college did you go to the first time around?

I don't think review is a bad thing either, my question is how many college students are being forced to do 2 whole years of review? ETA - if they don't need the review. Some students unquestionably need review, some might choose to do review to get a firmer grasp. No problem with that.

[emmiedahl]

I went to Shasta College, a community college because I was a poor teen mom, and then UC Davis. When I returned to college later in life, Washington State.