Visionary Woman: 1st 2 years of college are review of HS?

[ADoyle90815]

It's been a long time, but the only thing I remember was that my parents had no problems paying for my SAT's, yet they didn't pay for me to take any AP tests. Even when I took similar classes in college, they often went into details that weren't covered in high school.

[Witsec1]

I went to Shasta College, a community college because I was a poor teen mom, and then UC Davis. When I returned to college later in life, Washington State.

I suspect profiling and gender discrimination played a role in where you were placed.

[emmiedahl]

That could be it. I graduated high school early, with honors, and pregnant. I had been accepted to Stanford but opted to stay local because I needed family support. I remember that the counselor kept pushing me to drop my pre-med aspirations and go vocational even though I was earning straight A's. Ditto at Davis; the advisor felt pre-med was too rigorous for a young mother even though I had a 4.0 GPA. I finally switched to psych and then realized a decade later that this was a mistake and I needed to go back to the whole doctor idea.

[Witsec1]

Definitely sounds like it. Good for you, for getting back your dream!

[emmiedahl]

I would like to add that this is still occurring. My current advisor is always trying to talk me into taking a lighter courseload, which would mean not going to medical school eventually. The professors do it, too, if/when they find out I am older and have 5 children. I look young enough that I can usually blend in, but last fall I was pregnant and my organic chemistry prof made a point of telling me in front of the class on the first day that there was no way I would pass. I got a B first semester and an A- the second, which is not stellar but certainly passing.

I don't really know how to deal with it except to insist on taking the classes and let my grades do the talking. It pisses me off, though.

[Austin]

I was in Honors and AP classes in HS too. I don't get why the first 2 years of college HAS to be review. What colleges make you take Trig again if you ready for Calculus? I tested out of Freshman comp and into higher level German. Russian was definitely brand new. Probably had had some of the stuff in chemistry before, but we went so much deeper and further in college chem. For elective I chose stuff I hadn't taken before, like philosophy. I'm just wondering - what are the colleges that FORCE you to review high school if you are ready for more?

Our eldest, who just started his junior year of college, did not experience his freshman and sophomore years as reruns of high school at all. He placed out of anything that remotely resembled high school into higher level classes. I understand that some students do need those remedial or review type classes, but that's not the college's fault and students only have to take them if it's determined that they need them.

He started class yesterday and has got a militant YECer in his anthropology class. She's already loudly and rudely clashed with the prof. My son said it was very entertaining and I made him promise to give me good recaps of what promises to be epic battles!

[clibbyjo]

That could be it. I graduated high school early, with honors, and pregnant. I had been accepted to Stanford but opted to stay local because I needed family support. I remember that the counselor kept pushing me to drop my pre-med aspirations and go vocational even though I was earning straight A's. Ditto at Davis; the advisor felt pre-med was too rigorous for a young mother even though I had a 4.0 GPA. I finally switched to psych and then realized a decade later that this was a mistake and I needed to go back to the whole doctor idea.

I love that story!! You go Dr. E!!! :clap: I toy with going back to college when the kids are gone, but I really do not know what I would go for.

My(co-op) partner and I are currently writing a homeschooling/unschooling book and we have discussed starting an alternative school,but we do not want to teach once our kids are grown. We have had tons of crazy ideas of what we want to do, but we always lose interest ...

[Joykins]

If you have to repeat what you did in high school you're doing it wrong.

I tested out of a lot of freshman classes and calculus, so I started immediately mixing it up in the upper-level courses as well as electives and courses in things I hadn't studied before. I think the only thing that was "review" is that I read the Odyssey again, but Homer bears rereading!

[MrsYoungie]

I suspect that she is just repeating the crapola that College Plus tells the home school brigade in order to get them to sign up for their program. She most likely knows nothing about what is offered at a real university.

[emmiedahl]

Yes, College Plus is crap. And most universities will only accept X amount of CLEP credits. They are better off finding a college like Washington SU that offers tons of online classes.

[Lostie]

Well I've just started my second year of university and i'd definitely like to chime in here. I think the best way to do that would be class by class that I've taken so far. So, let's see.

First Year

First Semester

- Religious Studies 200A: Into to Christianity, Judaism, & Islam - mostly new information although some of it I knew thanks to everyone here at FJ (Thanks everyone!).

- American Sign Language 100A - I think this is pretty self explanatory. All new information here and definitely a course that would be pretty much impossible to learn with just College Plus.

- Spanish 149, Advanced Intro to spanish - admittedly there was a bit off high school stuff here, but quite a bit of new vocabulary and at the end an introduction to a new verb tense. I expected much of it would be review, but wanted to take it because I love the Spanish language.

- English 147: Intro to Literary Traditions and Transformations - I took AP English in high school and could have tested out, but ultimately I'm glad I took it. Most of it was entirely new with the exceptions of Pride and Prejudice and Romeo and Juliet.

Second Semester

- University Success - biggest waste of time ever. I though it might help me, it didn't. 'Nuff said.

- Political Science 101, Canadian Politics - Mostly things I already knew and I didn't really want to take it, but it's required in order to complete a political science degree. I did learn a lot more of the nuances of Canadian politics though so some new stuff.

- Political Science 103, Worlds of Politics - and introduction to the three main areas of political science (political theory, comparative politics, and international relations). Everything here was completely new.

- Women's Studies 104, Intro to Women's Studies - one of my favorite classes of the year (we know how the fundies would like that :twisted: ). Although I knew a bit about a few of the concepts it was almost all new information.

- History 105, History of the 20th Century - this was a full year course and although I had taken history in high school this course went more in depth than high school was able to. So yes, it was concepts and events I already knew, but more thorough.

Second Year

First Semester - this is where I am right now

- English 146, Intro to Literary Genres, Themes, & Styles - So far a bit of it is stuff I already knew from high school and the English class I took last year. I wouldn't be taking it except that I need 2 first year English courses in order to move into the higher levels. The prof is amazing and brings in things I don't already know though so it's a toss up.

- Political Science 202, Introduction to Literary Thought - I don't really like political theory, but I do see how it's important. This class is like nothing I've ever done before (and worries me that I will come out of it sounding very pretentious with our discussions about the meaning of truth and democracy :D ). I had read 1984 before, but we're looking at it from a political angle rather than an English one. Very different.

- Political Science, 210: Comparative Politics - All new information, although some of the research methods we're discussing are familiar.

- Political Science 211, European Integration and the European Union - Totally and completely new. Also, my mind is dying from memorizing treaties.

Second semester hasn't started yet so I can't say what that will bring, but no, the first two years are not a rehash of high school. Not unless you're taking things on purpose to be so.

[MonkeyMomma]

I doubt fundies are taking things like Human Sexuality, Physical Anthropology, Gender in a Cross-Cultural Perspective and other classes that really change your world view. If you avoid getting a real education, then it truly is all review.

Bingo.

[O Latin]

I don't know that it's so much a review of high school in the sense that you're learning the exact same information. I think it's more that a lot of 100 level classes aren't any harder than high school classes, at least in my experience. Although I also think A LOT depends on the professor and the way the class is structured. The two hardest college classes I've taken were both 100 levels, but they were hard because the professors were determined that we were actually going to learn and not just coast through and get an A (I got an A in both classes because I worked/studied my ass off). I've also taken upper division classes where I did almost none of the reading but still got an A because I can write a BS paper and actually sound like I know what I'm talking about.

I did place out of a lot of stuff. I didn't have to take English 101/102, Western Civ, U.S. History, or any math class because I took enough AP tests to get out of those. But if you didn't take and APs in high school, you could end up taking a lot of the same classes again. I agree with the OP, though, that there would probably be very few situations where you'd be forced to take the exact same class over again.

[bananacat]

I think it really depends on the school and program. If he's going to a diploma mill, of course it will be easy. At my college, the first two weeks were review. Not only did I take honors and AP classes in high school, I actually went to a community college in place of my senior year. I learned more in that year at community college than I did in 3 years of high school, and I learned more in my first term at a traditional college than I did all those 4 years combined. I majored in engineering and we didn't have time to waste reviewing high school. It was explained to us at freshman orientation that 1 out of 3 of us would not graduate with a degree with engineering. Statistically, that many students would change majors or transfer to another school because they couldn't handle the work. But they did this for a good reason: they didn't want a bunch of slackers building our country's bridges or designing electronics that would spontaneously combust.

Any school that is just a review of high school is one that the student should transfer out of, IMO.

[Witsec1]

I would like to add that this is still occurring. My current advisor is always trying to talk me into taking a lighter courseload, which would mean not going to medical school eventually. The professors do it, too, if/when they find out I am older and have 5 children. I look young enough that I can usually blend in, but last fall I was pregnant and my organic chemistry prof made a point of telling me in front of the class on the first day that there was no way I would pass. I got a B first semester and an A- the second, which is not stellar but certainly passing.

I don't really know how to deal with it except to insist on taking the classes and let my grades do the talking. It pisses me off, though.

Bah, that really sucks. I'm sad to hear it. I would write that stuff down on course evals at the very least. It's likely if they make those statements to you they are also doing other kinds of sexist stuff and they need to hear that it's not OK. Administrators do look at the student evals, at least in my experience. What the orgo prof said amounts to sex discrimination, IMO.

[Witsec1]

I tested out of a lot of classes in college through AP tests and my school's own placement testing. However, the 100 level classes I did take were certainly not review, as they either covered subjects my high school didn't or went into those subjects in greater detail.

Has Visionary Woman actually GONE to college?

According to her bio:

Natalie taught high school English when she was single and has been discipling women for 25 years through full time campus ministry, personal mentoring, writing, and Bible studies. More recently, she is the founder of Visionary Womanhood Gatherings in the Twin Cities area, which began almost five years ago, and she is also the administrator of the Visionary Womanhood blog and author of Visionary Womanhood Gatherings, A Family Strengthening Mentorship Tool for Women and Maidens.

I think she is doing a much better job of educating her kids than Kelly. I also agree that we need to re-think the whole college thing. You shouldn't have to go into such a deep hole financially for a college degree... there should be more flexibility and support for life long learning. I am in favor of people being active participants in their education, rather than having knowledge factories where human raw material is processed. Some people just aren't ready for the 4 year college at age 18, there should be multiple entry points into higher ed.

ETA: Queen Nocturne, is that who I think it is in your avatar? Mmmm Firefly ... Mal is so dreaaaaamy.

[emmiedahl]

I think the US does a great job with multiple points of entry, maybe a uniquely good job compared to other countries. I decided at 30 that my vocational path had been wrong and 4 weeks later I started pre-med classes. I mean, I called a local community college, met with an advisor the next week, took placement courses that day, then enrolled. I think that is one thing we do really well over here! There are a lot of countries in which it would be very difficult or even impossible.

[Witsec1]

I think the US does a great job with multiple points of entry, maybe a uniquely good job compared to other countries. I decided at 30 that my vocational path had been wrong and 4 weeks later I started pre-med classes. I mean, I called a local community college, met with an advisor the next week, took placement courses that day, then enrolled. I think that is one thing we do really well over here! There are a lot of countries in which it would be very difficult or even impossible.

Well, that is true. I wish there was more support for re-entry students though. And I wish our vocational training system was better.

[YPestis]

I'm not sure what these fundies are talking about. I was taking multi variable calc, writing a game in Java, taking mandarin and doing quantum mechanics.

I attended a good high school and was on the AP/Honors track. I attended an academically selective college and I found freshmen year of college a struggle. My classes were filled with premeds and the curve was difficult. Almost everyone I knew already took AP Chem, AP bio, AP calc (as did I) so the freshmen level classes were teaching at a college sophomore level with that expectation. One of my girlfriend sought help from her sophomore premed boyfriend for our freshmen chem class and he couldn't figure out the test questions because he was only just covering it (in organic ?!?!).

Maybe these fundie people are so so so much smarter than me, but I get the impression that they just set the bar low and then point to it as an example of the low academic standards of universities in general. Yes, some colleges offer remedial courses. Yes, some colleges accept students who can barely read or write. That isn't true for all schools. It certainly isn't true for upper level college courses.

My college doesn't offer any math course below calculus. Most of my engineering friends had at least a year of calc under them when they graduated from high school. I knew kids who had taken multi variable calc as high school students.

All of my premed friends had taken and passed their AP chem/bio/physics classes. Many of them still struggled in their freshmen year science courses. Most of these fundies would probably die at my college taking real freshmen level classes.

In fact, I bet most would fail at any decent college taking REAL college level courses.

Anyways, who the hell cares if fundies scoff at colleges? They can continue to wallow in their ignorance and I can avoid them in my classes LOL

[Katiebug]

These fundies are nuts. In my first 2 years of college I took: calculus II, multivariable calc, differential equations, two courses each of chemistry and physics (with lab), intro to engineering I and II, statics, dynamics, thermodynamics I and II, and measurement techniques. I also took a bunch of gen eds that were quite easy in comparison; around the same level of effort as my high school courses (all honors and AP).

Once we're done having babies and we only have one in full time daycare, I plan to take prereqs and go to nursing school (I'll be almost 40 and the prereqs/coreqs will take me 2 solid years going part time - yikes!). It may be at the community college level but I'm told that the prereqs are challenging and the nursing courses are very challenging. Those pre-nursing students who underestimate the prereqs will find themselves getting crummy grades and not getting in to the nursing program.

[Lillian]

I'm in second year uni at the moment. In my experience it is definitely not a review of high school. In HS we studied Hamlet over an 8 week period, in 1st year Uni we studied the Odyssey and the Iliad in 2 hours (1 hour lecture, 1 hour tute, in one week). Uni is just a completely different environment. I have about 10 contact hours per week, in HS I had more than 40. Even still, I have learned so much in the past two years, from Anthropology to Classics to early childhood education and witch hunting in early modern Europe. I knew next to nothing about these subjects before uni.

[bananacat]

I think she is doing a much better job of educating her kids than Kelly. I also agree that we need to re-think the whole college thing. You shouldn't have to go into such a deep hole financially for a college degree... there should be more flexibility and support for life long learning. I am in favor of people being active participants in their education, rather than having knowledge factories where human raw material is processed. Some people just aren't ready for the 4 year college at age 18, there should be multiple entry points into higher ed.

ETA: Queen Nocturne, is that who I think it is in your avatar? Mmmm Firefly ... Mal is so dreaaaaamy.

I don't know what kind of college you went to, but at my college we never just sat passively and absorbed what teachers told us. I think you have a very skewed view of college if you really think it's common for students to not participate in their own education.

[emmiedahl]

Bananacat, almost all of my classes are/have been lecture based, where we sit and listen to the teacher. And I have been to four different colleges, two of which are considered very good ones. The only classes in which I don't sit and take notes are science ones with labs.

I'm thinking maybe you mean that the student has to study and investigate in their own time? Which, of course, I do. And I have only rarely encountered teachers who wanted to indoctrinate us. Most just want us to understand the way people think in their field. Right now I am take sociology and an anthro class about gender, and both profs want us to learn to take a certain perspective, to remove our own biases when looking at a situation and see it in a different way.

[Joykins]

Bananacat, almost all of my classes are/have been lecture based, where we sit and listen to the teacher. And I have been to four different colleges, two of which are considered very good ones. The only classes in which I don't sit and take notes are science ones with labs.

I'm thinking maybe you mean that the student has to study and investigate in their own time? Which, of course, I do. And I have only rarely encountered teachers who wanted to indoctrinate us. Most just want us to understand the way people think in their field. Right now I am take sociology and an anthro class about gender, and both profs want us to learn to take a certain perspective, to remove our own biases when looking at a situation and see it in a different way.

I've had literature classes which veered into Socratic method, with only some lecture. Also very small classes with good guided discussion. A lot depends on the class size and how well prepared the students are to discuss. Also in my Greek class we had to translate the Iliad orally on the fly, which would have been great if my drunken jerk professor hadn't scolded me for looking at the text while translating. (I mean, seriously, wtf?)

[pomology]

It's been a long time, I don't remember which were AP and which were Honors. I do remember the necessity of repeating classes in college because my cheap-ass parents would not pay for me to take the exams.

Of course, the irony of this is that AP exams are much, much cheaper than credits of any one college class.