Election Results 2016, Part 2

[Jennifer Hart]

I'm still numb

[RoseWilder]

I started a thread where I said this, but it seems to have disappeared. So here goes again: 

I'm sorry FJers. I feel like I gave everyone false hope with the thread about talking people off the ledge. I really thought she would win. The polls were showing it. The predictions on a lot of websites were showing it. There was article after article about neverTrumpers and Republican women switching over to vote for Clinton. I really thought she would win. 

I still think she did win. I think they cheated or rigged it somehow. 

But anyway, I'm sorry again. I feel guilty for giving people false hope. I guess I'm just too optimistic about my fellow Americans.

[JoyfulSel]

1 minute ago, Toothfairy said:

Fuck him. Why do they dislike poor and middle class folks so much? Ryan wants to run in 2020 too. John Boehner wasn't like Ryan. At least he had some heart in him.

I don't know. I just don't ever know - the poor are always blamed for being poor and when we try to reform or do things to help us get out that, it gets shut down immediately. WHY would poor people ever ever ever vote for Republicans???? WHY?!?!?!

[RoseWilder]

35 minutes ago, JMarie said:

What are the chances he could get jail time from the Trump University trial?

He seems to get away with everything horrible he does. I think people (judge/jury, I'm not really sure which) will be too afraid to stand up to him for fear of retaliation. And even if he is convicted, he will find some way to pardon himself or weasel out of it. 

[Toothfairy]

My daughter who was raped had tears and panic talking to me. It was hard for her to open up about her abuse. She said Trump is a slap in the face to people like her. How can you vote for somone who treats women like shit. 

Just now, RoseWilder said:

He seems to get away with everything horrible he does. I think people (judge/jury, I'm not really sure which) will be too afraid to stand up to him for fear of retaliation. And even if he is convicted, he will find some way to pardon himself or weasel out of it. 

White privilege. Imagine Obama doing shit Trump has done. 

The Republicans are going to get of Planned Parenthood to start with. 

[candygirl200413]

Although I'm slowly but surely recovering, one thing that is honestly pissing me the fuck off is that many people are posting statuses who are trump supporters and are essentially saying "guys get over it, he's your president, you need to respect him" and some have the AUDACITY to post it with a bible verse.

 

Funny, many of them had statuses saying Fuck Obama, he brought the divide, we were all loving each other before he came to office. I actually cannot with this right now.

[CrazyLurkerLady]

I am numb and disbelieving right now. I am seeing so much hate already. I'm just so tired. Tired of being laughed at, being dismissed, being mocked. Tired of trying to make people understand why his behavior is a problem when it seems so self evident to me.

I still can't believe that the US just elected a man who brags about sexual assault, has double digit accusations against him, is under indictment for fraud, has had multiple bankruptcies, and lies as often as he breathes. I really truly don't understand how this happened. The only thing I can think of is the fact that he has a habit of accusing Hillary of the very things that he's doing. He made such a big deal out of voter fraud when there was zero evidence of it. I can't help but wonder if that was projecting because he was planning it himself.

[Mecca]

18 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I started a thread where I said this, but it seems to have disappeared. So here goes again: 

I'm sorry FJers. I feel like I gave everyone false hope with the thread about talking people off the ledge. I really thought she would win. The polls were showing it. The predictions on a lot of websites were showing it. There was article after article about neverTrumpers and Republican women switching over to vote for Clinton. I really thought she would win. 

I still think she did win. I think they cheated or rigged it somehow. 

But anyway, I'm sorry again. I feel guilty for giving people false hope. I guess I'm just too optimistic about my fellow Americans.

I think I can speak for many here when I say there is no need to apologize. You were only going on the information that was given. I appreciate your effort.

Now what we need to do is shake off the shit we were given last night and move forward. It sucks and it is going to be hard, but it can be done. We cannot allow this country to go backwards. Judging by the popular votes for Hillary, plus the votes cast for other candidates, we out number the dumbasses. We need to remember that and work with it. 

[GeoBQn]

I wonder what this is going to do to the polling industry.  How did they all get it wrong?

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I'm sorry FJers. I feel like I gave everyone false hope with the thread about talking people off the ledge. I really thought she would win.

No need to apologize at all.  

When the numbers are crunched it looks as though she won the popular vote.  There was also low turnout in the end.  There is something very wrong with the system of presidential elections if you ask me.

I still don't want to believe it.

[MarblesMom]

Watching Hillary speak and just tearing up over here.  I am on my 2nd box of Kleenex.

[Cleopatra7]

4 minutes ago, GeoBQn said:

I wonder what this is going to do to the polling industry.  How did they all get it wrong?

They underestimated the racism and misogyny of the American electorate.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Quote

From last thread:  Many of the people I know are die hard pro-life. It is truly about the sanctity of life. I honestly think this election went Trump's way because of the die hard pro- lifers and people who are sick of special interest groups and corruption in Washington. They wanted a business man. And the Supreme Court. And tighter national security. I don't think that Americans are as prejudiced as some of you in his thread do. We just had 8 years of a black president! I don't think Hillary lost because she is a woman. People wanted real change and Trump is the guy who they think can accomplish that. Most of the Trumpers I know voted for him for the above reasons. They don't necessarily like his personality but have given him the benefit of the doubt. I'm hoping like someone else said above, that congress will keep him in check. 

I had to get to work - but there are a couple of things from the last thread to which I wanted to respond before I get to my stuff:

To the first bolded:  Bullshit.  If it was about the sanctity of life then please link me to sources where they are advocating as hard to make sure every child has access to good health care and decent schools.  I live in a state where schools get money based on property taxes.  I've seen many a protest in front of Planned Parenthood, yet I've never seen anyone carrying signs in front of our schools demanding some of our per student spending go to schools in less affluent areas because those kids deserve a great education, too.  

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that in an area with 90k+ average household income has awesome schools and low crime and one with sub par schools with issues even keeping the buildings in repair,  where teachers have to go out of pocket to buy textbooks lest the kids go without,  has a 24k+ average household and crime rate one of the highest in the nation.  It's not like anyone has shown a correlation between a good education and opportunity or anything.  

What about the sanctity of the lives of the kids in the latter neighborhood.  They seem hell bent on keeping their mom's from accessing an abortion, but once here I guess a childhood of poverty surrounded by violence won't hurt them.  Someone explain this to me?

And FWIW there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that limiting abortion means limiting it to certain income levels - people with money will always have access.  

To the second bolded above:  I didn't either until last night.  I knew there was systemic and institutionalized racism woven in our society and in my pathetically small way I've tried to counter it when I saw it.  But I truly thought that most of it stemmed from ignorance and not willful disregard or hate.  

This may make some of you hate me, but when I first read about white privilege several years ago and the invisible knapsack I thought it was a load of crap.  My mom's family was poor, I knew plenty of white people who struggled, etc.  The typical arguments which at the time made sense to me.

Then I started to get it.  It's not about having stuff handed to you, it's about not having extra obstacles put in your way.  When I read of the study which showed white men with a felony record get more call backs for jobs than black men with a clean record - all other things being equal I was ashamed that I'd been so ignorant.  After all I was so enlightened - knowing that people have a inherent bias towards the familiar and others like them I had always made a conscious effort to be aware of that and confront that in hiring and other work decisions.  Not pretend I was color blind, but to make sure that I wasn't seeing someone in a more positive light just because they were more like me in superficial ways.  And I had been known for hammering that to everyone involved in any hiring process with me.  

I wasn't overcoming my own hatred for people of other races, etc, as I didn't hate anyone (actually I hate plenty of people, but not based on race or ethnicity etc.  If I hate you it's personal and you earned it.  I'm an equal opportunity bitch.)  - I was addressing the often unconscious bias we all have.  

But as a middle class white women from an upper middle class socioeconomic background, I occasionally found myself on the receiving end of dog whistles about "those people" from the overtly racist who wouldn't think of using racial slurs publicly but somehow think other white Christians all secretly "know the truth about "those people.""  "Except for so and so - they're one of the good ones."  See, they don't hate others because they acknowledge there are "good ones" not realizing that by saying that they are admitting that their default view is to see them as less than until proven otherwise by whatever jackass criteria in their head.  

But that was far more rare than those who just don't get that it's a problem.  They don't secretly hate, they don't care what race/religion the new employee is, or the family next door...they just think the laws have changed, we're all equal, and so why can't people just let it go.  

Damaging and ignorant for sure - but not based on hate.  These are people who, if they heard someone use a racial slur or admit to being a storm front member,  they'd shun them in a second and regard them with loathing.  So I truly honestly thought that those people couldn't possibly vote for Trump because he didn't hide his bigotry.  I knew Trump would get the people who wish they could put their term as Grand Wizard of their chapter of the KKK on their resume - but surely just the outliers.   The vast majority of people would be horrified by his statements and would dismiss him as a ranting clown.  

I am shocked today at what this has revealed about this country.  I am kind of scared that I could have been so wrong and wondering what other horrible shit is a fact that I just don't know.  And I'm ashamed that I ever doubted exactly how incredibly uneven the playing field is.  

TLDR:  If American's weren't prejudiced to an astonishing degree then someone speaking openly about wanting Muslims on a registration list, calling Mexican immigrants rapists and drug dealers, wanting to deny people entry to this country on the basis of religion, or any of the many other statements WOULD HAVE BEEN DEALBREAKERS!  It would have taken him out of the running the same as if he'd pulled down his pants pooped on the Fox News desk during an interview.  They'd have turned on him the way they would have if he'd been grabbing men by the package.  

I'm am very self-absorbed and money (making more, keeping more of what I make) is absolutely my most motivating factor in day to day life.  And if Trump had a plan to put me in a zero tax bracket and Hillary wanted to put me in 70% bracket where they'd light half of what they took from me on fire I'D STILL HAVE VOTED FOR HER!!  The same way I'd have turned down a job that seemed perfect and paid way more if I had to obey dog whistles.  

Ask the people who know me - some of them here - I'm a fucking mercenary.   I have been ashamed many times reading FJ that I'm not nearly as altruistic as most of you.   If I can't even think of putting my own interests over the harm this does to others then how fucked up are "those people?"  (Yeah - Trump supporters are "those people" - I'll other the shit out of them.)

I'm not a democrat.  I'm a moderate libertarian because being a moderate republican was no longer possible...I want government to provide roads and schools, offer a reasonable safety net for those who need it, find some kind of effective answer to the health care system, stay out of everyone's bedrooms and belief systems, make sure we have an adequate defense, spend tax dollars responsibly and give a transparent accounting, and work to solve problems instead of dabbling in policy while their real careers are running for office and feeding their egos.  In return I'm willing to pay my fair share in taxes without too much bitching as long as they agree to stop using my money to wipe their collective narcissistic asses.  

Sorry my TLDR ended up needing a TLDR of it's own.  I'm very angry.  

To the third bolded:  I'm actually hoping this is true.  not because of any integrity on their part, but pragmatism.  He's going to break his promises to his supporters.  They ALL do, but his supporters will be more angry because he was supposed to be different.  If they can save their own asses by opposing him they will...and that's the best we can hope for.  Or he will keep someone of them and the smarter ones will realize they should be careful what they wish for and will swing back to the middle.  Still forcing their representatives to go more moderate to keep their voting blocks.  

 

[Mecca]

2 minutes ago, candygirl200413 said:

Although I'm slowly but surely recovering, one thing that is honestly pissing me the fuck off is that many people are posting statuses who are trump supporters and are essentially saying "guys get over it, he's your president, you need to respect him" and some have the AUDACITY to post it with a bible verse.

 

Funny, many of them had statuses saying Fuck Obama, he brought the divide, we were all loving each other before he came to office. I actually cannot with this right now.

Exactly. The same people saying we need to respect Trump are the very ones that have done nothing but ridicule our current president. 

Obama is eight years into his job and not one scandal, has a brilliant partner in life and they both raised amazing girls. Trump has not even walked into the White House and cannot say the same thing. 

I cant help but laugh thinking Melania Trump is our new First Lady. I wonder if Melania will ask Michelle to leave behind her notes and speeches to get her through the next four years. Surely Melania can craft together a snazzy speech using the words of Michelle Obama. 

[HeathenBlondie]

I really don't even know where to begin. I'm heartbroken, pissed, bewildered, and thought I'd wake up this morning and all of this would have been a nightmare. I still can't believe the racist bigot won. And now he wants to work with people in this country and bring us all together. What a joke.

I feel for the minorities, the immigrants, the Muslims, the LGBTQ community & women whose lives are probably going to change drastically because of this election. The hatred that I've even heard today in my life has been disgusting. I'm not even going to repeat it because it's so offensive, but now I know where people in my area stand in regards to those that are non-white.

I'm a 37 yr. old white woman myself, but the racist views spewed by the extreme far right are NOT my views. He is not my President and never will be. I do not support Trump.

It also makes me sick to realize that my brother, sister and bro-in-law support this racist piece of shit. They don't care about foreign policy, domestic policy, the economy, world events or how we're seen by the world. All they care about is how the ACA will be repealed, that all the immigrants will be kicked out of the US, and that Trump is going to build a wall between us and Mexico. And I'm the stupid one for supporting Hillary.

My stomach is in knots.

 

[Mecca]

6 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

Watching Hillary speak and just tearing up over here.  I am on my 2nd box of Kleenex.

I am on my second bottle of Pepto.

Gawwwww...... I was so emotional last night thinking that ceiling would be shattered last night. Now I am getting emotional thinking just how close we were. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

@Cleopatra7 I realized my post to you this am didn't post submit before I left home.  The quality of your comments and the amount of thought you put into your opinions shows how you have not just major intellectual gifts but a depth of insight that's remarkable.  I don't always agree with you but I do always learn from you and I have a tremendous amount of respect for you.

I cried when I read your post this morning - aware of the irony that it's because of your awareness and compassion that you are so deeply affected...because you can't not see the problems.  You're in my thoughts -and heart - I'm so sorry you're hurting and I wish you nothing but peace and healing.

 

[Toothfairy]

16 minutes ago, JoyfulSel said:

I don't know. I just don't ever know - the poor are always blamed for being poor and when we try to reform or do things to help us get out that, it gets shut down immediately. WHY would poor people ever ever ever vote for Republicans???? WHY?!?!?!

White poor vote Red because they blame others for being poor. The Republicans think being poor is your own fault. Work harder. 

[Anny Nym]

Well... what to say that  hasn´t been already said.

 

It´s a  little bit like Game of Thrones becoming reality. And I really wonder what the Orange King´s first official state visit will be? I can´t for the love of the Lord imagine him next to Queen Elizabeth or  Hilaria Supa Huamán.

[AmazonGrace]

i can't even read this thread i am so disappointed with humanity right now 

[RoseWilder]

24 minutes ago, JoyfulSel said:

 WHY would poor people ever ever ever vote for Republicans???? WHY?!?!?!

I know two Republicans who are very poor. They're single Moms who are living on public assistance and they both rail against welfare. They talk about how horrible it is. One of them even put up this horrible anti-welfare meme. 

Neither one believes they are on welfare, even though they both are. They insist on calling it EBT and WIC, and they insist that EBT and WIC are not welfare, even though they both are. 

I don't know what they actually think welfare is, but they're convinced they're not on it. 

There's a reason why Trump said he likes his uneducated supporters. 

[Anny Nym]

1 minute ago, AmazonGrace said:

i can't even read this thread i am so disappointed with humanity right now 

Your avatar is wonderfully befitting the topic though...!

[JoyfulSel]

2 minutes ago, RoseWilder said:

I know two Republicans who are very poor. They're single Moms who are living on public assistance and they both rail against welfare. They talk about how horrible it is. One of them even put up this horrible anti-welfare meme. 

Neither one believes they are on welfare, even though they both are. They insist on calling it EBT and WIC, and they insist that EBT and WIC are not welfare, even though they both are. 

I don't know what they actually think welfare is, but they're convinced they're not on it. 

There's a reason why Trump said he likes his uneducated supporters. 

What in the actual hell? What do they THINK welfare is then? No wonder uneducated fools voted for him!

[RoseWilder]

3 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

i can't even read this thread i am so disappointed with humanity right now 

The only thing that's making me feel better now is knowing that she did win the popular vote. There are more people who are fighting against the racists than the ones who are promoting and enabling racism. It's not as big of a number as we had hoped, but there are still more of us. And our eyes are opened in a way they might not have been before. 

People of color have always known how racist our country still is. Women has always known how sexist our country still is. (Same with people with disabilities, gay people, etc.) But I think, up until yesterday, some of us didn't realize how pervasive of a problem it still is. 

This is a horrible moment for our country, and the world, but we know now exactly what the illness that infects our society looks like. We know how deep it runs. We can no longer live in denial about that. That is the first step in fighting against it. And we will fight. We've fought too hard for women's rights, gay rights, civil rights now to give up now. 

2 minutes ago, JoyfulSel said:

What in the actual hell? What do they THINK welfare is then? No wonder uneducated fools voted for him!

Did you ever see that interview with the Octomom (can't remember her name) when she was being asked about whether she was on welfare. She kept saying, "no, I'm just on food stamps." And the person interviewing her said "that's welfare," and she kept insisting it wasn't. 

It was mind blowing to me. But there are a lot of people who think they're not on assistance. 

Or other people who were on it once, but want to pretend they never were. My Aunt and Uncle lived in government housing towards the beginning of their marriage. Now she puts up a meme at least once a month railing against people who are on government assistant. She's always bitching about how "there are the contributors and the takers in society," and she keeps insisting she's not one of the takers. Seriously. She just flat out pretends she never got any government help and doesn't think anyone else should be allowed the very same help she took advantage of. It's so hypocritical. 

[prayawaythefundie]

12 minutes ago, Anny Nym said:

Well... what to say that  hasn´t been already said.

 

It´s a  little bit like Game of Thrones becoming reality. And I really wonder what the Orange King´s first official state visit will be? I can´t for the love of the Lord imagine him next to Queen Elizabeth or  Hilaria Supa Huamán.

My money is on Russia.