What Now?

[RoseWilder]

Update on Sleeping Giant boycott: 

The Sleeping Giant twitter page was set up about a week and a half ago and they've already persuaded 15 companies to stop advertising on Breitbart!

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I started wondering this evening if, when Donald chose Pence as his running mate, some Republicans decided to run a long con.  Many people think that Trump won't last four years and will be impeached, leaving Mike Pence as president, and I'm sure there are some major Republican entities who will be working very hard towards exactly that scenario. The timing would need to be impeachment in Year 2 of the Trump administration catastrophe, leaving Pence plenty of time to right the ship of state (or at least tow what's left to shore) and start campaigning for 2020.  Which would be the second damn disaster in four years.  Face palm. 

Let's hope that the recount brings some new votes to light -- for Hillary.  

Lots of verbal abuse of Melania in comments on articles that are left or center left, and that seems icky to me.  Melania seems to have zip interest in being First Lady.  Don't have any sense of who she is, other than being the mother of her son and standing by the Donald -- literally standing beside him in photo ops. She's going to continue living in Trump Tower until the end of the school year.  It will be interesting to see if she moves into the White House in June. 

I have no doubt that some Republicans are hoping for that. I would think the impeachment process would need to be over with by the start or middle of year two for Pence to have any real impact - especially if Democrats manage to regain ground in the Mid-term elections. 

And I agree about feeling uncomfortable about nasty comments concerning Melania. I have no issue with criticizing her for valid things she has said or decided - like her choice to stay in New York or her plagiarizing Michelle Obama. But I don't agree with character attacks on a woman who seems to have done her best to avoid the spotlight when possible. And I'm seriously uncomfortable when I've seen comments that are basically slut shaming her for her modeling days - she made choices that were right for her at the time and I don't think anyone should be shaming her for that. Just because Republicans treated Michelle Obama like crap doesn't mean Democrats should do the same to Melania Trump now.

2 hours ago, Howl said:

I started wondering this evening if, when Donald chose Pence as his running mate, some Republicans decided to run a long con.  Many people think that Trump won't last four years and will be impeached, leaving Mike Pence as president, and I'm sure there are some major Republican entities who will be working very hard towards exactly that scenario. The timing would need to be impeachment in Year 2 of the Trump administration catastrophe, leaving Pence plenty of time to right the ship of state (or at least tow what's left to shore) and start campaigning for 2020.  Which would be the second damn disaster in four years.  Face palm. 

Let's hope that the recount brings some new votes to light -- for Hillary.  

Lots of verbal abuse of Melania in comments on articles that are left or center left, and that seems icky to me.  Melania seems to have zip interest in being First Lady.  Don't have any sense of who she is, other than being the mother of her son and standing by the Donald -- literally standing beside him in photo ops. She's going to continue living in Trump Tower until the end of the school year.  It will be interesting to see if she moves into the White House in June. 

I have no doubt that some Republicans are hoping for that. I would think the impeachment process would need to be over with by the start or middle of year two for Pence to have any real impact - especially if Democrats manage to regain ground in the Mid-term elections. 

And I agree about feeling uncomfortable about nasty comments concerning Melania. I have no issue with criticizing her for valid things she has said or decided - like her choice to stay in New York or her plagiarizing Michelle Obama. But I don't agree with character attacks on a woman who seems to have done her best to avoid the spotlight when possible. And I'm seriously uncomfortable when I've seen comments that are basically slut shaming her for her modeling days - she made choices that were right for her at the time and I don't think anyone should be shaming her for that. Just because Republicans treated Michelle Obama like crap doesn't mean Democrats should do the same to Melania Trump now.

[Howl]

A coupla things:

1. We know that Melania is not a politically engaged wife and values her privacy, and she won't be moving to the White House in January because of the kid.  Idle speculation here, but I wonder if some of the things that came to light during Trump's run-up to the election (specifically, his treatment of women and potential infidelity) put a little chill in the marital air?

2. Considering what happened on 9/11, wouldn't isn't Trump Towers a massive security risk? Before 9/11 rained terror from the skies,  there was an attempt to set off a massive bomb in the basement of the Twin Towers.  I just keep thinking, how is it even possible to secure Trump Towers?  It's over 600 feet tall.  People live there, have businesses there, restaurants, retail.  It's like a White House, but with 58 floors, 58 times bigger and busier.  Apparently, traffic is already a disaster.  

[Childless]

I don't criticize Melania for her modeling decisions (although I do call out supposed Christians who seem to be making excuses for supporting her after criticizing Michelle for daring to expose her shoulders).  I will criticize her for not moving though.  Every first lady has moved in to the White House in January.  Every first kid has moved in January also.  All have lived to tell the tale.  I'm quite certain having to move in the middle of the school year won't make Barron drop dead from stress.  Plenty of kids have done it and I'm sure he isn't a fragile little snowflake who couldn't handle it.  It's just an excuse for Melania not to have to move away from her beloved NYC.  She, along with the Donald, never thought it would come to this because they never thought he'd win.  Well, he did, so it's time to either suck it up and move or pay for your own damn security if you choose to stay in NYC.  Or get a divorce (my personal recommendation).

[Flossie]

42 minutes ago, Childless said:

(snip)

Every first lady has moved in to the White House in January.  Every first kid has moved in January also.  All have lived to tell the tale.  I'm quite certain having to move in the middle of the school year won't make Barron drop dead from stress.  Plenty of kids have done it and I'm sure he isn't a fragile little snowflake who couldn't handle it.  It's just an excuse for Melania not to have to move away from her beloved NYC. (snip)

You're assuming that Melania is the driving force here.  I have been assuming that Chump is the one keeping Mel and Barron in NY.  I have no exact reason for my assumption, except that I get the impression that Chump really doesn't want to live in the White House.  I have been speculating that he's hoping that keeping his family in NY will somehow morph into a means for the Orange Manchild to live there most of the time as well.  I can see him now, proclaiming that since the Secret Service has obviously managed to keep his family safe for however many months, it stands to reason that there's no real problem that he can't just live there and go to the White House only when absolutely necessary.

I've also thought that Chump wasn't impressed with Melania's few attempts at playing Future First Lady during the campaign, and relishes the opportunity to go it alone in DC.  I don't know if it's because he's hoping for a discretely revolving door of extramarital female companionship in the President's Bedroom, if there is a chill in the marriage these days, if he's embarrassed by Melania, or he just needs an excuse to go back to Trump Towers as often as possible.  Maybe he just can't stand the thought of following tradition because he can't stand not being in charge all the time.  I do think that the reason doesn't have anything to do with what he thinks is best for his son or wife, only what he thinks is best for him.

[nausicaa]

@Howl I can't even begin to understand how Trump Towers could be made safe enough for the First Family to live there. I just don't think it's possible. Way to piss off ALL of your Secret Service detail. (Man, are they gonna have some stories after this.)

Also, there are suspicions that Trump will be driving up every Friday and spending the weekend there, causing massive traffic backups during rush hour on 95 (which is already a nightmare). 

As someone who lives in the D.C. area, I can tell you how much traffic is backed up when the President goes somewhere via the Beltway in an official capacity with his motorcade. It's not like an ambulance where people just pull off to the side for a minute. Entire ROADS get shut down. Major Beltway exits are blocked for up to thirty minutes. Even once the motorcade passes and roads open up again, traffic does not get back to normal for at least an hour. 

Leave it to Trump to even fuck up Friday afternoons, the best time of the entire week. I'm guessing he's going after Christmas morning and the last day of school next.

[FlamingFundie]

@nausicaa I wonder if he has a helicopter that he can just take back and forth between the tower and White House....?

[nausicaa]

Just now, FlamingFundie said:

@nausicaa I wonder if he has a helicopter that he can just take back and forth between the tower and White House....?

There was talk of that, but there are security issues with that as well, especially since the path and schedule of the helicopter would become known and there would be issues with landing it. And I've heard that Trump prefers being driven to flying. 

I really hope the driving thing is just a rumor. It will be such a nightmare if it really happens.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Childless said:

I don't criticize Melania for her modeling decisions (although I do call out supposed Christians who seem to be making excuses for supporting her after criticizing Michelle for daring to expose her shoulders).  I will criticize her for not moving though.  Every first lady has moved in to the White House in January.  Every first kid has moved in January also.  All have lived to tell the tale.  

Fun fact time!

Martha Washington never lived in the White House (because it wasn't finished during her husband's time in office.) She and George lived in the then-Capitol of Philadelphia. Anna Harrison, wife of President William Henry Harrison (and grandma to another President Harrison) also never lived in the White House... because her husband died a month after taking office. She didn't move with him because she was ill when he was inaugurated that March - she was set to move that May.

So yeah. There is precedent, but that was due to actual legitimate reasons like no White House or being widowed - not "I don't want to because my son is in school."

(Sorry. I like history.... )

2 minutes ago, FlamingFundie said:

@nausicaa I wonder if he has a helicopter that he can just take back and forth between the tower and White House....?

That could still mess up the air space over certain areas. I'm not sure if they'd have to close air space over DC and NYC for him to land and takeoff safely, but it's possible.

Point being: no matter what, he's bound to fuck someone over majorly if he really does decide to commute on weekends. 

[GreyhoundFan]

15 minutes ago, FlamingFundie said:

@nausicaa I wonder if he has a helicopter that he can just take back and forth between the tower and White House....?

Marine One (the helicopter) can be used. It normally flies with multiple decoys. Air Force One (the plane) would normally be taken from DC to NYC. It normally flies with at least one decoy.  It costs in the neighborhood of $250K an hour to operate AFO. The airspace would be locked down in the NYC area for at least 30 minutes before and after landing, which would hose travel all over, since the NYC area is some of the busiest airspace.

@nausicaa is correct about the impact of the President being driven. I used to work for a regional public safety agency in the DC area. I always hated getting a call that POTUS was on the move, because we had to lock down all the roads for a long time. And, if POTUS was late, like Bill Clinton was (at least 90% of the time), the closures could drag on and on. People would call our dispatch, screaming about not being able to get where they were going, but we couldn't give an explanation. The limo convoy is also quite large.

I think that, no matter what, people in the northeast are going to be majorly inconvenienced for the next four years, or as long as Agent Orange is "in charge". For as much as the Drumpfers whine about the Obamas, they are rather considerate, staying close to the White House most of the time, keeping inconvenience and expense down.

[Cartmann99]

Has anyone read something about Melania's plans for being the First Lady while living in NYC? Are Ivanka, Tiffany, and their sisters-in-law going to help out with the public appearances that the First Lady normally does? Anybody know?

[GreyhoundFan]

29 minutes ago, Cartmann99 said:

Has anyone read something about Melania's plans for being the First Lady while living in NYC? Are Ivanka, Tiffany, and their sisters-in-law going to help out with the public appearances that the First Lady normally does? Anybody know?

I've read speculation in the DC-area media that Ivanka would serve as "hostess" for official functions. Tiffany hasn't been mentioned as a sub, neither have the daughters-in-law.

[RoseWilder]

I just saw on twitter that the Democratic Coalition is delivering copies of reports of Trumps ties to Russia to all of the members of the electoral college today. 

I don't know if this news is reputable or not, but if it is then, damn Democratic Coalition, I like your style!

[Audrey2]

@VelociRapture, If you want to get really technical about it, Dolly Madison and Bess Truman also spent significant time outside of the White House. Dolly Madison (and James) were burned out by the British in 1814, when the British marched into Washington D.C. during the war of 1812, and Bess Truman (and President Harry) while the White House was being rebuilt in the late 1940's/early 1950's. (The White House was falling apart by this time, and a piano leg went through a ceiling. When the workers gutted the inside of the White House, they still found burned stones, left after the War of 1812.) I do know that both of these women did live with their husbands and faced extenuating circumstances. (Yes, I enjoy history, too,)

[Ali]

I doubt Dolly Madison would approve of Melania not living in the White House and taking her role as First Lady seriously.

https://www.whitehousehistory.org/teacher-resources/saving-history-dolley-madison-the-white-house-and-the-war-of-1812

Quote

Dolley Madison continued entertaining at the White House until war virtually reached her doorstep. The dinner table was set for 40 guests the day she left the White House. She and a few servants had remained at the White House, packing up valuable documents, silver, and other items of importance. With limited space, she made choices about what to take and what to leave. Among the items that could not be left behind was the full-length portrait of George Washington by artist Gilbert Stuart. Purchased by the federal government for $800, the portrait was as much a symbol of the republic as any other object. Once the painting was safely on its way, Dolly Madison left the White House. Residents flooded the roads out of town. Even the soldiers assigned to protect the White House had fled before Mrs. Madison.

 

[GeoBQn]

If you are theatrically inclined, playwright Lauren Gunderson is making her 2013 play The Taming available for free to any group that performs it on Inauguration Day.  She suggests turning the performance into a fundraiser for an organization like the ACLU.

https://www.playscripts.com/blog/2016/11/stage-a-reading-of-lauren-gundersons-the-taming-on-inauguration-day-for-free/

[bashfulpixie]

Dolly Madison was a badass. 

[Cartmann99]

6 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

Dolly Madison was a badass. 

From what I've read about her over the years, I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment. 

[RoseWilder]

I'm never really sure where to post these articles, so I guess I'll just put it here. 

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/28/1604870/-The-Associated-Press-defined-alt-right-and-the-white-supremacists-are-not-going-to-like-it

Quote

The AP’s standards blog just posted a piece about how to use the term ‘alt-right’ when writing articles. Considering the Associated Press provides the style guidelines for newspapers and magazines nationwide, this clarification is a big deal. 

Here's the advice the AP gave: 

Quote

“Alt-right” (quotation marks, hyphen and lower case) may be used in quotes or modified as in the “self-described” or “so-called alt-right” in stories discussing what the movement says about itself.

Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters’ actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.

I hope this makes a difference in how the press reports on this stuff because it's really starting to scare me to see how a lot of the press is reporting as if Trump and his administration picks are normal. 

[RoseWilder]

Wisconsin just raised the price of the filing fee for an election recount: 

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/29/1605395/-WI-Increases-the-RECOUNT-Fees-to-3-5-M-from-the-Original-1-1-M

Between this and refusing to hand count the votes, something fishy is going on in Wisconsin. 

[bashfulpixie]

What the hell?? I would say we need the government to step in, but we all know THAT won't happen.

[PraiseDog]

Tentativively wandering back into this thread now, and wishing I'd stayed caught up here, after reading all of your positive comments and helpful links about how to take various actions that might make a difference. 
For the past several weeks I've felt like I needed to take a break from social media, news sites, their comment threads, even boards like this, because I was going into a dark and angry place where I couldn't continue to think critically or evaluate facts logically.  
My family thinks I'm overreacting, and I think they're "normalizing" the bigotry  (they dislike the Orange Menace too, but just want to live their lives as usual...)
Anyway...still not ready to risk Facebook...but getting caught up here again.

Thanks to you FJ folks, for renewing my faith in a sensible, intelligent, caring, future-focused, big chunk of humanity.

Continung to catch up... 

      

[Childless]

27 minutes ago, PraiseDog said:

Tentativively wandering back into this thread now, and wishing I'd stayed caught up here, after reading all of your positive comments and helpful links about how to take various actions that might make a difference. 
For the past several weeks I've felt like I needed to take a break from social media, news sites, their comment threads, even boards like this, because I was going into a dark and angry place where I couldn't continue to think critically or evaluate facts logically.  
My family thinks I'm overreacting, and I think they're "normalizing" the bigotry  (they dislike the Orange Menace too, but just want to live their lives as usual...)
Anyway...still not ready to risk Facebook...but getting caught up here again.

Thanks to you FJ folks, for renewing my faith in a sensible, intelligent, caring, future-focused, big chunk of humanity.

Continung to catch up... 

      

I know how you feel.  I was there for about a week after the election.  So upset I couldn't eat.  Glad to hear your feeling better.

As to your family, well they'll get a big wake up call when the Orange Menace and his menagerie's policies start dramatically affecting their lives and they'll wish they'd paid more attention back when they could have fought against the insanity.  Already the crackpots are talking about privatizing Social Security, getting rid of Medicare in favor of forcing seniors onto private policies, putting people with pre-existing conditions into high risk pools and charging them higher premiums, starting government lists of people they don't like, spending billions of dollars on deporting 11 million illegal aliens while also slashing taxes, taxing the middle class and poor people more while giving all the tax breaks to the rich, curbing freedom of speech, prosecuting journalists they disagree with even if what they report is fact, etc., etc., etc.

[Howl]

Quote

Avoid using the term generically and without definition, however, because it is not well known and the term may exist primarily as a public-relations device to make its supporters’ actual beliefs less clear and more acceptable to a broader audience. In the past we have called such beliefs racist, neo-Nazi or white supremacist.

Wow, speaking of badassery -- that's a badass guideline.  They nailed it.  

I felt it was significant when a journalist last week used the term agit-prop to describe Trump-generated news items and tweets. The term perfectly captures Trump's PEOTUS-as-reality-show shtick.

@RoseWilder said:  

Quote

the Democratic Coalition is delivering copies of reports of Trumps ties to Russia to all of the members of the electoral college today. 

Speaking of the electoral college, one of our Texas electors, a devout Christian, resigned yesterday because he simply could not cast a vote for Trump.  Texas electors sign an oath to vote for whoever is designated by the state, but this Elector doesn't think that Trump is Biblically qualified for the job of POTUS.  Maybe he thought that Ted Cruz would win? 

Quote

Voting for the nominee of our party, Mr. Trump, is certainly what the vast majority of Republicans are urging me to do. I have yet to find anyone that has biblically answered my first article. They don't make the case that Trump is indeed biblically qualified. I have had a few people take issue with the original intent of the Electoral College and my job as an Elector. Once presented with the evidence they usually acknowledge the validity of the original intent, but claim that has changed. The biggest beef most people have with me being so "arrogant" as to publicly state "this issue is so important that I am going to think about it" is that I signed the pledge. I have already expressed my reasons why I think the pledge is an immoral, unlawful pledge that the GOP makes Electors sign. It undermines the Bible and the Constitution. But they are 100% correct. I did, in fact, sign the pledge. It was a voluntary pledge and I willingly signed it. I was wrong in signing this pledge and not communicating to the body when I ran that my conscience would not be bound by it. I honestly did not have the convictions about the original purpose of the Electoral College or the biblical qualifications until after I was an Elector. The Bible calls this a rash oath and warns against making them. It clearly states: "if a person swears, speaking thoughtlessly with his lips to do evil or good, whatever it is that a man may pronounce by an oath, and he is unaware of it- when he realizes it, then he shall be guilty in any of these matters. And it shall be, when he is guilty in any of these matters, that he shall confess that he has sinned in that thing."

This is a fascinating conflation of spiritual and political values. 

[VelociRapture]

6 hours ago, PraiseDog said:

Tentativively wandering back into this thread now, and wishing I'd stayed caught up here, after reading all of your positive comments and helpful links about how to take various actions that might make a difference. 
For the past several weeks I've felt like I needed to take a break from social media, news sites, their comment threads, even boards like this, because I was going into a dark and angry place where I couldn't continue to think critically or evaluate facts logically.  
My family thinks I'm overreacting, and I think they're "normalizing" the bigotry  (they dislike the Orange Menace too, but just want to live their lives as usual...)
Anyway...still not ready to risk Facebook...but getting caught up here again.

Thanks to you FJ folks, for renewing my faith in a sensible, intelligent, caring, future-focused, big chunk of humanity.

Continung to catch up... 

      

Don't worry about missing things. If you needed time away then it's good you took it. You'll be more prepared to take action this way.