Comment on Homemaker by Choice

[snarkykitty]

Amber from Homemaker by Choice had posted about breastfeeding challenges, and someone left this commnet:

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"I'm sorry breastfeeding has been painful for you. Stick with it as long as you can, though! I think I struggled the first month or so with my daughter after a poor start (I didn't latch her on right the first few days of nursing due to it being so uncomfortable to sit on the tear that I suffered while delivering her), but at 4 years old she still gets 5 minutes before going to bed at night. I have cherished EVERY moment nursing her. I'll continue praying for you and especially for the physical discomfort to ease"

I know that in some countries, babies are nursed longer for financial and nutritional reasons, but 4 years old and recreationally?

I've read about kids even older still nursing; just disturbing to me.

[NurseNell]

I've read about kids even older still nursing; just disturbing to me.

I find it disturbing too. I have known women who've nursed 4 and 5 year olds. I don't like to see kids that age with a bottle either. Nursing 2 years is ideal, 1 year is good but at some point around age 2 it's time to wean.

Nell

[Evie Teale]

Several years ago, we were at a Thanksgiving get-together with some of my husband's family that we rarely see. His cousin was sitting on the couch talking to us when her SEVEN YEAR OLD SON walked over, lifted up her shirt, lifted up her bra, and latched on! :shock: She just kept talking, as if nothing was going on. I had to leave the room.

To this day, I get creepy all over just thinking about it. No amount of brain bleach can erase something that mortifying.

[snarkykitty]

Several years ago, we were at a Thanksgiving get-together with some of my husband's family that we rarely see. His cousin was sitting on the couch talking to us when her SEVEN YEAR OLD SON walked over, lifted up her shirt, lifted up her bra, and latched on! :shock: She just kept talking, as if nothing was going on. I had to leave the room.

To this day, I get creepy all over just thinking about it. No amount of brain bleach can erase something that mortifying.

:shock:

[Turtle]

I don't have a problem with a four year old nursing, especially if it was just to calm her down to go to sleep. I would probably be disturbed by the seven year old though.

Everyone has their own comfort level based on our idea of "normal" when it comes to breastfeeding.

[Jessica]

I hope she doesn't have thrush! I had it, but it was only in my nipples, not a usual yeast infection and nothing in my son's mouth. I tried everything. Diflucan would start to get it to go away and when it would be almost gone, I'd run out of it and no one would prescribe more (I just needed 3 more pills people! jeez!) so it would come back. Fought it for 5 months! FInally, I went on a sugar-free diet (no fruit, no bread, just rice, chicken, and a couple vegetables for about 3 weeks) and took grapefruit seed extract and SolaRay Yeast Cleanse and got it to go away. It was really painful. I described it to a friend as feeling like there was a piece of hot, fiery barbed wire wrapped around my spine and someone was pulling it out through my nipples while at the same time squeezing lemon juice onto little cuts all over my entire boob. It felt like that every time my son would eat. I described it exactly like that to another friend and she said "Yep, sounds about right!" It is horrible stuff! :(

[longskirts]

I don't really have a problem with the four-year-old nursing. Different cultures nurse kids for different lengths of time. There is no one right time to wean.

[saraelise]

There's a youtube video of a 6 or 8 year old child still being breastfed. At one point she says it tastes likes mangoes, no, better than mangoes! I feel like once the child can ask for it in a fully articulated sentence that child is too old to be breastfed.

[buddingmedievalist]

Several years ago, we were at a Thanksgiving get-together with some of my husband's family that we rarely see. His cousin was sitting on the couch talking to us when her SEVEN YEAR OLD SON walked over, lifted up her shirt, lifted up her bra, and latched on! :shock: She just kept talking, as if nothing was going on. I had to leave the room.

To this day, I get creepy all over just thinking about it. No amount of brain bleach can erase something that mortifying.

Totally off topic, but this made me think of a scene from Game of Thrones with Lysa Arran and her son(can't remember the name and too lazy to google); the first time I saw it was with a group of friends and we all got visibly uncomfortable. Now back to your regularly scheduled snarking

[demgirl]

I think you have to wean before there is a recognition that breasts can be sexual objects. It's hard for me to judge, because I don't have kids and even when/if I do, I will not be breastfeeding. I know my SIL breastfed her eldest for almost five years, and it made me a bit uncomfortable, but I could never decide if that was simply b/c of my own hangups, or society's hangups, or whether I truly thought it went on too long.

[Guest Anonymous]

There's a youtube video of a 6 or 8 year old child still being breastfed. At one point she says it tastes likes mangoes, no, better than mangoes! I feel like once the child can ask for it in a fully articulated sentence that child is too old to be breastfed.

Thing is, that's such an arbitrary way to judge whether a child is too old to be nursing, since it in no way reflects on their physical or emotional maturity. My son was fully 3 before he could form a "fully articulated sentence", whereas my daughter is not yet two and asks several times a day, "mommy may I have some booboo milk please?"

FWIW, my son self-weaned at around one, and my daughter is (obviously) still nursing and probably won't self-wean for some time. I actually read an article today about Mayim Bailik (sp?) and her "gentle weaning" method that I found really inspiring: http://thestir.cafemom.com/toddler/1261 ... ity_mom_is

I don't know if I, personally, will ever (or WOULD ever ) nurse a 4 or 5 or 6 year old, but IMO there are far too many children with parent's doing much worse things to them for me to get my knickers in a twist over it. I really think the mother knows best if her child needs it (and yes, I consider comfort a legitimate 'need'.) I don't think a nursing your 4 year old is 'wrong' or 'gross' or even very snark-worthy. YMMV.

ETA: it sounds like the poster's child is nearly weaned anyway - 5 minutes before bedtime won't keep a supply going long.

[Patsy]

I don't think I'm going to change any minds but I want to take the opportunity to say that I see nothing wrong with four-year-olds breastfeeding, in fact I think it's wrong to say that it's wrong.

In any extreme behaviour, I think you will often see an overrepresentation of people who need to have extreme personalities in order to do it - and so I am sure there are a lot of extended breastfeeders who are weird or who are doing it for their own reasons more than their child's reasons. But a number of people doing things for the wrong reason doesn't make the thing itself wrong.

The "if they're old enough to ask" thing really annoys me. Some six-months-old babies can sign 'milk', are they too old? What about three-week-olds who root for the nipple when they're hungry? One-year-olds who say 'boo'? Two-year-olds who say 'want nurse'? I've never seen an argument that explains why communication is some sort of litmus test for when weaning should occur; it's all 'well, verbal skills come around when I am uncomfortable to see nursing, therefore, they are a sign that it's wrong.'

[Buzzard]

I don't think I'm going to change any minds but I want to take the opportunity to say that I see nothing wrong with four-year-olds breastfeeding, in fact I think it's wrong to say that it's wrong.

In any extreme behaviour, I think you will often see an overrepresentation of people who need to have extreme personalities in order to do it - and so I am sure there are a lot of extended breastfeeders who are weird or who are doing it for their own reasons more than their child's reasons. But a number of people doing things for the wrong reason doesn't make the thing itself wrong.

The "if they're old enough to ask" thing really annoys me. Some six-months-old babies can sign 'milk', are they too old? What about three-week-olds who root for the nipple when they're hungry? One-year-olds who say 'boo'? Two-year-olds who say 'want nurse'? I've never seen an argument that explains why communication is some sort of litmus test for when weaning should occur; it's all 'well, verbal skills come around when I am uncomfortable to see nursing, therefore, they are a sign that it's wrong.'

I dont know the answer to this, but there has to come a time where the nutritional benefit of nursing is reduced by the consumption of solid foods. I dont know if its brain development based, immunity based etc. At some point in time we do not need our mothers milk to sustain us and build a growing body. Around that same point in time I would presume it just becomes a social/emotional crutch that may have a negative psychological impact on the developing child in that we are teaching the child to associate comfort with food. I cant make an equal time comparison to other mammals because they develop at different rates than humans. I presume that the biological need to nurse terminates at the time that the child can maintain itself on solid food, the same way that animals can. After that point it seems to be an emotional behavior.

[clibbyjo]

I nursed to around age 2 with each baby. I hang with the granola crowd,so I have known a few who went to age 4 or so. I personally would be uncomfortable nursing a child who is school age. I wouldn't give a 6 or 7 year old a bottle or pacifer either. Again, that is MY personal opinion,people can do what is comfortable for them.

[Patsy]

... Around that same point in time I would presume it just becomes a social/emotional crutch that may have a negative psychological impact on the developing child in that we are teaching the child to associate comfort with food. I cant make an equal time comparison to other mammals because they develop at different rates than humans. I presume that the biological need to nurse terminates at the time that the child can maintain itself on solid food, the same way that animals can. After that point it seems to be an emotional behavior.

Apart from the bolded part, I agree with you.

I think at around two, most people acknowledge that there is very little nutritional benefit for nursing, and certainly not a need? Perhaps a bit of an immune boost but not much beyond that. Yeah, I think a four-year-old nursing does not nutritionally need that -- at all. So I guess if you're using the cut-off point of 'not as much need, nutritionally' and 'not really any need at all, nutritionally' - it would come around/after two years? I have absolutely no links or studies to back this up, by the way, that's just the overall impression I happen to have from what I've read over the years.

But I don't see what's wrong with keeping it as an emotional behaviour when there are less nutritional benefits left. The nutritional benefits of breastfeeding over formula feeding are not as huge as breastfeeding advocates might have you believe (unless you are talking about a situation in which the child happens to be very sensitive to something in formula, or the water supply is not safe). A lot of people would place the bonding of breastfeeding as more important to them than the nutritional benefits. Does that mean it's wrong for them to breastfeed? A four year old who nurses for a minute in the evening and twice a year when she hurts herself badly and needs comfort is not a child who is using breastfeeding as a limiting emotional crutch; I'm not going to fault that behaviour.

I guess what would convince me on this is if anyone could actually show me that extended breastfeeding does have an association of messing kids up socially, giving them weird food associations, etc. (And tbh even then I would probably assume that the bad outcomes were associated with the mothers who choose to extend breastfeeding for the wrong reasons, because I think there are probably a fair few.)

[Cordial]

I don't understand the "if they're old enough to ask for it..." argument.

Should we apply the same logic to using diapers? When a child is old enough to tell you that their diaper needs to be changed, they must be old enough to be fully potty-trained! After all, they have the physical awareness of what's going, they can express the cause and their desire for the intended effect. Seems like they are no longer babies but young children who should be past that very physically intimate process we associate with babies.

Really, that's just as arbitrary a standard for child development. Except my first daughter could say "I need be changed" at 16 months. Didn't potty train till close to 2.5, when it happened very quickly and painlessly.

[hapamama]

I've breastfed 4 of my 5 kids... one weaned at 28 months, one at 20 months, another at 15 months and the youngest is still nursing at 21 months old.

I generally stop nursing in public after they're 2.

[Austin]

I nursed my babies for a year. That was the recommendation of the American Academy of Pediatrics at that time. The first baby pretty much weaned himself at a year, which was good because we wanted to start to try to get pregnant again. It still took me 16 months, even with fertility drugs, so it was good I didn't wait any longer, as they ended up being three years apart (ideally, we were hoping for two years, but three has turned out to be very good).

I nursed the twins for one year exactly and nursed them for the last time on their birthday. I had exclusively breastfed them for almost nine months though, so I was pretty happy with myself for sticking it out a year, especially when numerous people told me it wouldn't work. One of whom was my pediatrician. . . yeah, we switched doctors not too long after that. My MIL also told me this, plus she was grossed out that I nursed for more than two months, which is what she did with her children. I ignored her on both counts.

Plus I had breast surgery scheduled and if I didn't have it done that summer when my husband was home to take care of the little ones, I would have had to wait a full year and I was more than ready for this surgery. Way ready.

Anyhoo, that's what worked for us. Our kids are thankfully healthy and have absolutely no food allergies or really any allergies, but I wouldn't claim causality b/c I know lots of breastfed kids with allergies, so who knows.

I don't care if other women nurse longer, although I'm not sure how I feel about a kindergartner. Maybe I'm not evolved enough, but I don't think I'd want to see that. If it's done for nutrition, as I know it is in some situations like third world countries, then yeah, I do think that makes a difference. For me, it does anyway. Other people should do what they want and if I see someone lifting up their shirt for a six or seven years old, I'll look the other way.

[Beeks]

Edited because what I wrote was probably inflammatory and also totally unrelated to fundies - so there was no point in leaving it up. =)

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been reading around a bit and the general consensus seems to be that an uncoerced, 'natural' age of weaning is somewhere between 3 and six years old. Obviously, nursing children beyond toddlerhood is a rarity in North American culture, but it's only the way we've been socialized that makes it 'wrong' or 'weird'.

On that note, I thought this article was interesting: http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

She's an anthropoogist and drew comparisons with apes and chimps, and with other human cultures, and pretty much matched that 3-6 age range, which roughly corresponds to the full development of the immune system and a full set of teeth. La Leche League references her studies in their 'Weaning FAQ'. It's pretty neat stuff to think about.

[Chrystal-J]

:shock:

:shock:

[longskirtlotsakids]

Several years ago, we were at a Thanksgiving get-together with some of my husband's family that we rarely see. His cousin was sitting on the couch talking to us when her SEVEN YEAR OLD SON walked over, lifted up her shirt, lifted up her bra, and latched on! :shock: She just kept talking, as if nothing was going on. I had to leave the room.

To this day, I get creepy all over just thinking about it. No amount of brain bleach can erase something that mortifying.

Well.... at least you have an interesting Thanksgiving story to tell for the rest of your life. Just..... wow.

[longskirtlotsakids]

Ya know.... after some rumination, I kinda came to the conclusion that some men (and lesbians, let's be fair) a never truly wean, if you get my drift. THere's an awful lot of boobie worship going on (at least here in the US) that makes me believe men equate boobs with a whole lot of comfort. Looking at them, burying their face in them, touching them, and other actions that will henceforth go unnamed.. yeah.

Try weaning men (and lesbians!) off of breasts first before we go knockin on the kids.

[Linnea]

I was just going to post the Kathy Detweiler article, but I see Bekah beat me to it.

I nursed my son until just short of his 5th birthday. For the last couple of years, it was a just-at-bedtime thing, or if he had a stomach bug and couldn't keep anything else down, I'd nurse him. Once you've nursed that long, your supply is well enough established that you can even skip a few days and still produce milk when you need it.

That said, I recognize that our culture is squeamish about older kids nursing, and I think there's something to be said for obeying social norms - like, not letting your 7-year-old nurse in front of other people. Unless you really *like* being socially inappropriate.

[annalena]

kind of off topic , but

i'm bored by homemaker by choice. i used to enjoy her posts and videos, but all those guest posts and blog hops bore me.

her latest post gives me hope though;) the one about just wanting to be herself again.