Bates Family Part 15 - Bumps, Births and Babies

[elliha]

1 hour ago, ladyaudley said:

Alyssa posted a cartoon about strap safety with the hashtag #noneedtofreakout I have to say I find it bewildering and amusing to see how much Americans (and it seems to be predominantly Americans from observation) freak out about car seats. It's incredibly difficult to get a rear-facing seat for kids older than 18 months here, the government doesn't recommend it (although there's a petition) and it's even legal for kids over the age of three not to use a car seat for "short, necessary" journeys and for all children in taxis. Just because there are a million recommendations about safety in one country about something doesn't make it the gospel...
Eta: that being said, Alyssa did have those straps on wrong no matter where you're from

I am not American and I find Americans extremely relaxed about rearfacing seats. My country has 4 years or longer as a recommendation for rearfacing and I have not met any parent of today who have stopped rearfacing before 3. I have met some who stopped at say 3,5 when their child outgrew their seat and instead of buying a bigger rearfacing seat bought a forwardfacing seat. I would not have done it myself as I will use a rearfacing seat for my daughter even after 4 but I know they are out there. Here it is getting more and more common to rearface until you start school at 6 or even beyond and starting to use a forwardfacing seat at 18 months is just unthinkable so we really have vastly different perspectives. Most of our rearfacing seats go to 18 or 25 kilos here so there are quite a lot of 6 year olds who easily fit into a rearfacing seat. 

[Kak]

2 hours ago, ladyaudley said:

Alyssa posted a cartoon about strap safety with the hashtag #noneedtofreakout I have to say I find it bewildering and amusing to see how much Americans (and it seems to be predominantly Americans from observation) freak out about car seats. It's incredibly difficult to get a rear-facing seat for kids older than 18 months here, the government doesn't recommend it (although there's a petition) and it's even legal for kids over the age of three not to use a car seat for "short, necessary" journeys and for all children in taxis. Just because there are a million recommendations about safety in one country about something doesn't make it the gospel...
Eta: that being said, Alyssa did have those straps on wrong no matter where you're from

I thought I was just out of touch! My youngest just turned 10; it sounds like things here haven't changed in the last ten years. My kids used car seats and boosters for as long as they fitted in them, but that is not common in my local area. But they rear faced until 18 mths Ish. 

 

[ladyaudley]

1 hour ago, elliha said:

 we really have vastly different perspectives. Most of our rearfacing seats go to 18 or 25 kilos here so there are quite a lot of 6 year olds who easily fit into a rearfacing seat. 

Weird, isn't it. But then there are so many things that are so different - like the fact brominated vegetable oil is perfectly legal and deemed safe in the US and banned in the EU or the differences in licensing of medicine even within the EU - Novalgin for example (metamizole) is totally banned in France, but the first choice for post-op pain in Germany. 

 

ETA: woo, this post made me a homeskool hero!

[elliha]

1 hour ago, ladyaudley said:

Weird, isn't it. But then there are so many things that are so different - like the fact brominated vegetable oil is perfectly legal and deemed safe in the US and banned in the EU or the differences in licensing of medicine even within the EU - Novalgin for example (metamizole) is totally banned in France, but the first choice for post-op pain in Germany. 

 

ETA: woo, this post made me a homeskool hero!

I am in the pregnancy thread here too and it seems that there are some many things that are different both from a medical and culturally point of view with pregnancy too. Here it used to be extremely rare that anyone found out the sex until about 10 years ago and it is still not uncommon at all that you don't find out the sex. Also, baby showers are creepy to me, I wouldn't want things for a baby that isn't born yet, that feels like tempting faith. I am not superstitious but I cannot bring myself to make the baby's bed before he is here, it is said to be bad luck, on pinterest you see people around the world with a perfect nursery even before they are half-way through their pregnancy and every time I think "O no, they have made the baby's bed already". I understand that this will not mean that every single one of those babies will die but still my superstition makes me think "dead baby" for every picture.  

[VelociRapture]

52 minutes ago, elliha said:

I am in the pregnancy thread here too and it seems that there are some many things that are different both from a medical and culturally point of view with pregnancy too. Here it used to be extremely rare that anyone found out the sex until about 10 years ago and it is still not uncommon at all that you don't find out the sex. Also, baby showers are creepy to me, I wouldn't want things for a baby that isn't born yet, that feels like tempting faith. I am not superstitious but I cannot bring myself to make the baby's bed before he is here, it is said to be bad luck, on pinterest you see people around the world with a perfect nursery even before they are half-way through their pregnancy and every time I think "O no, they have made the baby's bed already". I understand that this will not mean that every single one of those babies will die but still my superstition makes me think "dead baby" for every picture.  

Pregnant American chiming in:

I don't enjoy Baby Showers because it's awkward opening tons of stuff in front of people. I like the idea of a party after the kid is here so everyone can meet them... But then there's the question of when, and if, you feel up to it. Plus, baby having a new immune system and lots of adults not staying up to date on some vaccinations (like Pertussis.)

Hubby and I will be preparing stuff ahead of time despite having a prior miscarriage. It's much easier to have stuff done ahead of time then to try and scramble on next to no sleep with a screaming newborn. We probably won't really start until halfway through the pregnancy though - before then it does feel like I'd personally be tempting fate a tiny bit.

I fully admit that walking past the teeny little clothes at Target and not buying anything is slowly killing my soul though. 

[19 cats and counting]

I'm not a fan of showers (baby and bridal) in general.  The gift opening and staged oohh and aahh get under my skin.  I think it's just awkward for everyone there. 

And there's a special circle in hell for shower games.  I don't want to make a TP wedding dress or guess the contents of a diaper.  Just no.

(I decline all shower invitations and send a gift).

 

[elliha]

6 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Pregnant American chiming in:

I don't enjoy Baby Showers because it's awkward opening tons of stuff in front of people. I like the idea of a party after the kid is here so everyone can meet them... But then there's the question of when, and if, you feel up to it. Plus, baby having a new immune system and lots of adults not staying up to date on some vaccinations (like Pertussis.)

Hubby and I will be preparing stuff ahead of time despite having a prior miscarriage. It's much easier to have stuff done ahead of time then to try and scramble on next to no sleep with a screaming newborn. We probably won't really start until halfway through the pregnancy though - before then it does feel like I'd personally be tempting fate a tiny bit.

I fully admit that walking past the teeny little clothes at Target and not buying anything is slowly killing my soul though. 

Oh, most people prepare things ahead of time but it is just you don't give gifts to the baby or make absolutely everything ready before the baby has come. I have most things ready, I just need to buy a carseat for the baby and some other minor things like pads for me, some new blankets and so on (second baby so I had a lot of stuff). I bought a sun hat today because I remember last time that sun hats for some reason were impossible to find in newborn size in July in Sweden (the warmest and sunniest month). I ended up having to buy the only hat available in my daughter's size which I haven't thrown away even now but always hated. Now I got a cute one so my only expectation is that this one is going to be one of those bigheaded babies who will not fit into a newborn sized sun hat and I will have the same problem as last time anyway (and no, I am not buying two hats...)

In my family most people baptize their babies even if they are not that religious so often there is a party after 3-4 months to celebrate this. If you don't baptize the baby some people have a party around that time often called simply a welcome party. We are religious so for us it will be a baptism and party around that time. 

I have never worried about vaccines or illnesses with babies as long as anyone who wants to hold the baby washes their hands and isn't visibly ill. We have a huge number of people who could potentially get pertussis here in Sweden, most born in the 70s and 80s are not immunized against this since the vaccine was discontinued at this time. I have had it so I will not spread it though. I have never worried about pertussis, perhaps I should but there hasn't been an outbreak in ages in my town.

[just...sare]

I think this is where her relative immaturity is coming into play. She pretty much seems to be trying to alienate the people who were (mostly) genuinely concerned about her baby's safety, rather than trying to make her baby safe.

Spoiler

 

[formergothardite]

People were justified in freaking out because she was putting her child in danger. 

[JMO]

Just chiming in some car seat safety information.  I always find graphics helpful. 

 

 

 

[nausicaa]

Yeah,to me this whole thing has definitely revealed her immaturity behind the future politician's wife mask. 

[ladyaudley]

Ievery time I think "O no, they have made the baby's bed already". I understand that this will not mean that every single one of those babies will die but still my superstition makes me think "dead baby" for every picture.  

me too! Same in Germany. Just like you'd never say "happy birthday " to someone of their birthday is coming up soon! *shriek* no no. Bad luck.

[Screamapillar]

You know Alyssa, if people were making remarks on your photos like "That baby headband looks stupid" then by all means get defensive because that's your personal taste and it's not hurting anyone. But when people are pointing out potential safety issues, the proper response is either a: no response or b: "Thanks for your concern, I will look into it!" It's immature to get so pissy about a topic like this on Instagram, is my point.

3 hours ago, elliha said:

 I am not superstitious but I cannot bring myself to make the baby's bed before he is here, it is said to be bad luck, on pinterest you see people around the world with a perfect nursery even before they are half-way through their pregnancy and every time I think "O no, they have made the baby's bed already". I understand that this will not mean that every single one of those babies will die but still my superstition makes me think "dead baby" for every picture.  

I'm due the first week of September, and since we're moving into a new house in the middle of July, I haven't bought anything or done anything to get prepared for the baby yet. Just more clutter to have to worry about moving at this point. But I definitely have people in my life that are freaked out on my behalf that I'm not going to be ready on time. I like to decorate as much as the next person, but if I don't have a picture perfect nursery ready for the baby I'm certainly not going to stress about it.

[Coconut Flan]

Quote

like the fact brominated vegetable oil is perfectly legal and deemed safe in the US

I had to look that one up.  And not exactly.  It is strictly limited and seems to only be used in a few brands of soda. 

Showers and setting up rooms for newborns is as cultural in the US as anywhere else.  We just have so many cultures that different groups do things differently.  Some groups think showers before the baby's arrival are indeed tempting fate and don't do them.  Others party away and have "gender reveals."  Some people have full blown nurseries prepared and others don't. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, elliha said:

Oh, most people prepare things ahead of time but it is just you don't give gifts to the baby or make absolutely everything ready before the baby has come. I have most things ready, I just need to buy a carseat for the baby and some other minor things like pads for me, some new blankets and so on (second baby so I had a lot of stuff). I bought a sun hat today because I remember last time that sun hats for some reason were impossible to find in newborn size in July in Sweden (the warmest and sunniest month). I ended up having to buy the only hat available in my daughter's size which I haven't thrown away even now but always hated. Now I got a cute one so my only expectation is that this one is going to be one of those bigheaded babies who will not fit into a newborn sized sun hat and I will have the same problem as last time anyway (and no, I am not buying two hats...)

In my family most people baptize their babies even if they are not that religious so often there is a party after 3-4 months to celebrate this. If you don't baptize the baby some people have a party around that time often called simply a welcome party. We are religious so for us it will be a baptism and party around that time. 

I have never worried about vaccines or illnesses with babies as long as anyone who wants to hold the baby washes their hands and isn't visibly ill. We have a huge number of people who could potentially get pertussis here in Sweden, most born in the 70s and 80s are not immunized against this since the vaccine was discontinued at this time. I have had it so I will not spread it though. I have never worried about pertussis, perhaps I should but there hasn't been an outbreak in ages in my town.

Ah. That makes more sense to me. I was picturing a totally empty room and nothing prepared at all. That'd be an absolute nightmare for me. 

Yeah, hubby and I aren't affiliated with any specific religion. So no baptism or party after for us - should be a super fun conversation with my mom sand Grandma (I can totally see them getting a little puffed up over this.) I really don't want a traditional shower either. Maybe I can convince hubby on a compromise of some sort.

Pertussis is one of the vaccines I made sure to get before my nephew was born early this year. That and the flu shot. It's such a tough disease for kids and some babies have died from it - no way was I going to take any chances that he'd catch something from me. And sometime late this year I'll get my Pertussis done again so Velocibaby has a bit of protection between birth and six weeks (which tends to be when babies here get their Pertussis shot if I remember right.)

Do you know why Sweden no longer vaccinates for Pertussis? I never realized other countries didn't vaccinate for it anymore (I no little to nothing about public health concerns internationally though) and I'm curious. 

[Fundie Bunny]

I also find those picture perfect nurseries really weird. Having a bassinet, a stroller, and a carseat you're covered for at least 2 months. My niece's room isn't even finished yet, and she is almost two.

[elliha]

5 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Ah. That makes more sense to me. I was picturing a totally empty room and nothing prepared at all. That'd be an absolute nightmare for me. 

Yeah, hubby and I aren't affiliated with any specific religion. So no baptism or party after for us - should be a super fun conversation with my mom sand Grandma (I can totally see them getting a little puffed up over this.) I really don't want a traditional shower either. Maybe I can convince hubby on a compromise of some sort.

Pertussis is one of the vaccines I made sure to get before my nephew was born early this year. That and the flu shot. It's such a tough disease for kids and some babies have died from it - no way was I going to take any chances that he'd catch something from me. And sometime late this year I'll get my Pertussis done again so Velocibaby has a bit of protection between birth and six weeks (which tends to be when babies here get their Pertussis shot if I remember right.)

Do you know why Sweden no longer vaccinates for Pertussis? I never realized other countries didn't vaccinate for it anymore (I no little to nothing about public health concerns internationally though) and I'm curious. 

They do now but didn't during most of the 70s and 80s. The decision was made because the vaccines at the time were not deemed safe enough in relation to their effectivness. Some time in the late 80s one came out that was considered good enough to use and I think the same one is used today. My daughter is vaccinated against pertussis and the little one will be too. 

We do give less vaccines than the US though, flu shots are only given to risk groups such as people with heart disease. We don't have hepatitis A and B, TBC or chicken pox in the official program either. Hepatitis B is probably on the way in soon though as more people travel but in the actual country the risk of hepatitis B is very low. 

As a kid I remember warnings about pertussis and babies but since they started vaccinating the kids there have been so few cases of it that I don't think people are that scared of it anymore. 

[QuiverDance]

22 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I also find those picture perfect nurseries really weird. Having a bassinet, a stroller, and a carseat you're covered for at least 2 months. My niece's room isn't even finished yet, and she is almost two.

 

The problem is, there is not a lot of time in a stretch to get things done once the baby comes.  

[nausicaa]

3 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

The problem is, there is not a lot of time in a stretch to get things done once the baby comes.  

And some people just like decorating and interior design. I can see myself totally decking out a nursery while pregnant. I'm also a Type A style planner so that would relieve some of my stress. 

[faraway]

I understand both parties here: Do I believe Alyssa is an ideal parent with getting pregnant at 19 and growing up in a house where it's more about quantity than quality with kids? Absolutely not. But she is a parent now and she should educate herself on the important things when it comes to taking care of a child.

On the other hand the internet can be so damn annoying, there's literally 13 year-olds on instagram with no self-control parroting wrong information which creates this huge uproar. That would annoy me too. But that's the price you pay for your semi-fame, so limelight-fundies have to deal with it too.

[SnazzyNazzy]

14 hours ago, 16strong said:

 

This was AMAZING. I laughed until I cried.

[Granwych]

3 hours ago, elliha said:

Oh, most people prepare things ahead of time but it is just you don't give gifts to the baby or make absolutely everything ready before the baby has come. I have most things ready, I just need to buy a carseat for the baby and some other minor things like pads for me, some new blankets and so on (second baby so I had a lot of stuff). I bought a sun hat today because I remember last time that sun hats for some reason were impossible to find in newborn size in July in Sweden (the warmest and sunniest month). I ended up having to buy the only hat available in my daughter's size which I haven't thrown away even now but always hated. Now I got a cute one so my only expectation is that this one is going to be one of those bigheaded babies who will not fit into a newborn sized sun hat and I will have the same problem as last time anyway (and no, I am not buying two hats...)

In my family most people baptize their babies even if they are not that religious so often there is a party after 3-4 months to celebrate this. If you don't baptize the baby some people have a party around that time often called simply a welcome party. We are religious so for us it will be a baptism and party around that time. 

I have never worried about vaccines or illnesses with babies as long as anyone who wants to hold the baby washes their hands and isn't visibly ill. We have a huge number of people who could potentially get pertussis here in Sweden, most born in the 70s and 80s are not immunized against this since the vaccine was discontinued at this time. I have had it so I will not spread it though. I have never worried about pertussis, perhaps I should but there hasn't been an outbreak in ages in my town.

Grampwych  and I got our TDAP (tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis) shots as soon as we learned wychling was pregnant.  Pertussis is one horrible (but easily prevented by vaccination) disease. 

[Melissa1977]

I actually liked Alyssa's joke on instagram. She's said she was going to check the seat belts.. I'm sure she realised she was wrong. Showing a bit of humour helps to relax and sometimes it's a good solution to finish arguments. If that happened to me, I wouldn't start to appologise and publicy cry "I'm a bad mother", I will probably do the same as Alyssa: checking the seat in real  life but taking it easy in IG. This said, I would be terrified for my mistake, but I wouldn't explain it to strangers. Of course we don't know if Alyssa feels guilty, but I'm sure she's concerned about safety.

There's something fresh in Alyssa, something smart despite her lack of education and her vanity. And using humour to answer people (and not Bible quotes) makes me think she's going to fundie-lite way. 

 

[imokit]

I agree with @Melissa1977.  Her post could be taken to mean you're all idiots chill, but it could also be read as a comment that car seats are complicated, she's going to check herself and potentially fix things and that she didn't need the pile on.

Its easy to read a lot of things into certain families but the Bates especially - Erin's I'm not ATI - but is she not ATI because she doesn't have a kid old enough, or because she no longer agrees with Gothard debate.

Alyssa - clothes, not saying she'll leave number of kids up to god etc

People read into them, what they want to read to into them, and the answer is its all snark and who knows what goes on in their heads.

I personally am reading Alyssa's post as that she's going to check and fix things, but I'm fully aware of my own bias and that I like to see the best in people (until they prove me wrong or obvious about things).

[RosyDaisy]

I took Alyssa's posts as FU Internet's. Not a single thing she posted indicated she was over the fundie lifestyle. She is the DIL of a U.S. congressman with deep ties to IBLP. As such she needed to ditch the frumpers for more mainstream attire.