Arndt Man Boys & Mary-Elizabeth living out their own unique stories

[JenniferJuniper]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:34 AM, acheronbeach said:

What boggles my mind is that we FJites have been talking about the Arndts since even before I joined (and I've been on Fj for about a decade).

Those early posts are pretty much identical.  it's as if nothing has happened in their lives for ten years - time's just stopped. 

Nothing has happened.  Absolutely nothing.

Which is extraordinary when you think of a typical decade in a large family with offspring the ages of the Arndts.  A long-time friend of my daughter's is 18 and youngest of 10 in her family.  In the past decade among the siblings there have been many college graduations, grad schools,  five or six marriages and one divorce,  an assortment of babies, new careers, military service, a few relocations including one to South Africa.  And I don't know the half of what's gone on.  

If you read Rick Arndt's diary from 2000 it doesn't  sound any different from 2016.   The only change is that now all but one of the "kids" is working for the family while Rick has completely retired to his fantasy world of softball and Vine Valley.

Many say the Arndts are boring, and this is absolutely true.  But if you step back and look at the big picture here, it's absolutely fascinating. 

 

[Black Aliss]

Years ago I came to the conclusion that all of the Arndt offspring must be carrying an extremely rare and devastating genetic condition--one that they do not want to pass along but that is guaranteed to show up in any offspring. Therefore they have decided against marriage, because the purpose of marriage is to procreate, and birth control is sin.

I have to think this because the alternatives are just too weird and uncomfortable.

[Shiny]

3 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Years ago I came to the conclusion that all of the Arndt offspring must be carrying an extremely rare and devastating genetic condition--one that they do not want to pass along but that is guaranteed to show up in any offspring. Therefore they have decided against marriage, because the purpose of marriage is to procreate, and birth control is sin.

I have to think this because the alternatives are just too weird and uncomfortable.

I think that too. They have such exposure to the real world, that I just cannot believe ALL the guys have stayed at home. 

[ladyamylynn]

Maybe they're aliens who crash landed on our planet and this is their best attempt to blend in?

[16strong]

[ladyamylynn]

[Carm_88]

5 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Years ago I came to the conclusion that all of the Arndt offspring must be carrying an extremely rare and devastating genetic condition--one that they do not want to pass along but that is guaranteed to show up in any offspring. Therefore they have decided against marriage, because the purpose of marriage is to procreate, and birth control is sin.

I have to think this because the alternatives are just too weird and uncomfortable.

There has to be something that we don't know...

[Black Aliss]

I guess a slightly more likely scenario is that the boys are hemophiliac and the older ones are HIV+ from having received contaminated clotting factor when they were very young. Again, it shouldn't preclude marriage except for that pesky  procreation rule.

[MamaJunebug]

On 10/28/2016 at 1:40 PM, Carm_88 said:

I think that's the strangest thing about them! They are completely talented. They have jobs that work well in the real world and they could live on their own. They just don't...

Megan is on the real housewives of OC by the way! And very smart advertising!

They are a very talented bunch, the Arndts.  I just spent way too much time on their FB page. Questions abound. 

~ How do young(ish) men work around all the raging hormones and emotions of wedding days, elaborately staged proposals for film, etc., and not feel their own normal urges to settle down with, y'know, a wife?

~ How much do they charge, especially for a destination wedding?

~ The King-Edmonds wedding was the 5th between the groom & bride (third for Jim Edmonds, second for Meghan). Pretty widely known J & M were involved while he was still married to #2 - the mother of his two very young children. How does the Church of Papa Arndt square that with its Roman Catholic roots? No, I know: when one starts one's own church, one gets to define the rules. 

~ How did they keep Meghan from looking like a giraffe?  The camera operators on Real Housewives of Orange Co. can't! 

~ Did the Arndts cross paths with Andy Cohen, the Daddy of All Things Housewives and frequent visitor to St. Louis, where I'm almost certain the wedding was held?  Arndts + Cohen = oh, the potential. 

~ The manse on Isolation Boulevard is used as staging central! I need to befriend a bride-to-be who's got a contract with Arndt Photo. Locally, of course. Oh, to tag along and see...!

[ladyamylynn]

2 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

I guess a slightly more likely scenario is that the boys are hemophiliac and the older ones are HIV+ from having received contaminated clotting factor when they were very young. Again, it shouldn't preclude marriage except for that pesky  procreation rule.

That's one heck of a theory right there.

[meee]

7 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

I guess a slightly more likely scenario is that the boys are hemophiliac and the older ones are HIV+ from having received contaminated clotting factor when they were very young. Again, it shouldn't preclude marriage except for that pesky  procreation rule.

Interesting theory, but they seem too healthy for that.  Wouldn't HIV+ from before 1985 (when mandatory screening started iirc) mean they'd be seriously ill from full-blown AIDS by now?

[JenniferJuniper]

30 minutes ago, meee said:

Interesting theory, but they seem too healthy for that.  Wouldn't HIV+ from before 1985 (when mandatory screening started iirc) mean they'd be seriously ill from full-blown AIDS by now?

Yes, and only about 50% of the boys would have been born with hemophilia if Cathy was a carrier (which she almost certainly isn't, because she has a lot of sisters and as far as anyone knows has no nephews with AIDS.)  So when you factor all these things in, Stockholm Syndrome still remains the most likely possibility.  

[anjulibai]

Today is Caleb's 18th birthday. There are no only two minors left in that household, and they are both teenagers. In only a little over 4 years there will be no more "children" left safe at home, just adults. I wonder if they will go silent at that point? 

[quiversR4hunting]

12 hours ago, ladyamylynn said:

Maybe they're aliens who crash landed on our planet and this is their best attempt to blend in?

I think this is the best explanation (well outside Stockholm syndrome). Even before I scrolled down I thought of the show "3rd Rock from the Sun" and the movie Men in Black.

[JenniferJuniper]

37 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

Today is Caleb's 18th birthday. There are no only two minors left in that household, and they are both teenagers. In only a little over 4 years there will be no more "children" left safe at home, just adults. I wonder if they will go silent at that point? 

I'm not sure they can.  While it will be a complete shock if they ever actually finish it before the curtain is rung down and Rick joins the choir invisible, he has a compulsion to constantly promote the long-promised Vine Valley.  He recently said it's looking like a 6 hour movie or mini-series. 

So as long as VV remains in filming (or re-filming) mode, he'll keep us updated with the goings on, continuing through all of the post-production activities.    That should bring us well past Paul's 40th birthday and possibly into young David's 20's. 

[Carm_88]

3 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Today is Caleb's 18th birthday. There are no only two minors left in that household, and they are both teenagers. In only a little over 4 years there will be no more "children" left safe at home, just adults. I wonder if they will go silent at that point? 

I don't think so. Rick likes the attention too much and he likes to think that he is this great thinker. I mean I don't think anyone gives him a lot of attention other than his children but he thinks that many many people are reading his thoughts. Mostly it's us.

[Black Aliss]

6 hours ago, meee said:

Interesting theory, but they seem too healthy for that.  Wouldn't HIV+ from before 1985 (when mandatory screening started iirc) mean they'd be seriously ill from full-blown AIDS by now?

Screening of blood donors started in the US until late 1985 but it wasn't until 1992 that there was even a partially reliable test for one of the clotting drugs and 1995 when a more reliable (still not 100%) test was devised. Transfusions became a low-risk exposure but a single dose of clotting factor requires thousands of plasma donors/sellers. With much of the plasma coming from for-profit collection centers, clotting factor has continued to carry a higher risk than transfusions.

And no, there'd be no reason for them to be ill. I have HIV+ friends and relatives who have been living with the disease since the early 90's and they are still very healthy, as long as they take their meds. It's gone from being a death sentence to a chronic, manageable condition.

[Lurky]

@meee It's quite common here in the UK for people to have been living with HIV for 30 years or so - it wasn't so much about when someone was infected, but what stage they were at when the combination therapy drugs came in (& in the UK, when they were available on the NHS).  Some stories:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/10782371/HIV-at-30-Ive-faced-three-decades-since-my-diagnosis.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/22/living-with-hiv-30-years-on

http://eastsidech.wixsite.com/30yearshiv

People who are HIV+ can also live pretty much normal lives, like people with diabetes, or other kind of long-term medical condtions, and with drugs like Truvada (& other pre-exposure prophylaxis drugs - PeEP) and of course with safe sex practices, can have full sex lives without infecting their partners (it's an issue here in the UK because Truvada isn't available on the NHS for HIV negative men who have sex with men).  Here's a thing about living HIV+ now (though it's men only)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/health/this-is-what-its-really-like-to-live-with-hiv/

It's even possible for an HIV negative positive woman or man to have a baby without HIV - here's US government advice:

https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/staying-healthy-with-hiv-aids/friends-and-family/having-children/

(One of the big issues people who were infected with HIV in the 80s and 90s face is the fact it was seen as a death sentence, so some people didn't plan for the future, set up pensions etc, and then had to re-adjust to not dying.  And there are some haemophiliacs who were infected with hepatitis at the same time as HIV, and having many more issues with the hepatitis now)

[acheronbeach]

This theory is completely groundless and pretty nuts, IMHO. 

[AmazonGrace]

It looks like a complete lifestyle choice to me.  Even if some were sick some or all of them could still move out and marry if not for the safe at home thing.

[nastyhobbitses]

21 hours ago, meee said:

Interesting theory, but they seem too healthy for that.  Wouldn't HIV+ from before 1985 (when mandatory screening started iirc) mean they'd be seriously ill from full-blown AIDS by now?

They could be, but consider that Magic Johnson has been HIV+ for 25 years and is, by all accounts, pretty healthy and active because he got treatment right away and is consistent with it. But unless the Arndts have the kind of dough/insurance that a very famous NBA player has, I doubt they would have such an experience with 30 years of a positive HIV status.

If there's any sort of transmissible condition, I really doubt it's HIV/AIDS or involves it.

[formergothardite]

I really doubt it is something like that. I think they are all just brainwashed or they all don't live the sheltered safe at home life that Daddy likes to present. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason they don't share a lot of family pictures/events anymore is because the "boys" are living more independent lives. 

So did they have their yearly softball event?

[nokidsmom]

Agree with @JenniferJuniper that there's some kind of Stockholm Syndrome going on.  Rick and Cathy have somehow managed to get 14 kids, but most notably young adult men in their 20's and 30's, to stay "safe at home" thinking they are with the bestest family in the world with none of them breaking away to live a life of their own or date or do anything that is not independent of the family save working for the purpose of supporting same family.   It wouldn't be surprising if one, two or even three were still at home but all of them?  There's definitely some mental / emotional voodoo happening.  Having come from an enmeshed family myself with some cultish dynamics (Mr No. does call my family a cult)  I have some idea but still it does not explain this completely.

Do any of these guys ever question the sameness of their lives? That they go out and work then come home, then (presumably) turn over their earnings to Mommy and Daddy when they could build a life of their own with that money?   Do they wonder why they don't have a family yet?  Or date?  Do they wonder why Daddy keeps working on Vine Valley (hint: maybe to keep them at home because he "needs" their help)?

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

This theory is completely groundless and pretty nuts, IMHO. 

Wait, so the theory is that the Arndt man-boys all have hemophilia and are unable to get married because they are also all HIV+?  

I'm sorry to be so rude but .

The discussion above about infection of people with hemophilia with HIV through contaminated blood supplies and long-term survival with HIV/Aids has a lot of merit, but I think this speculation needs to be reigned in.

Let's just put it this way:  If a mother is a carrier of hemophilia she only has a 50% chance of passing it on to any of her children (daughters as carriers and sons with hemophilia).  There is also no way that the Arndt man-boys would be as physically active and rough-house the way they do if they had a dx of hemophilia, with or without HIV.  It's a serious condition.

No, I'm going with the brainwashing theory.

 

 

[JenniferJuniper]

3 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

Do any of these guys ever question the sameness of their lives? That they go out and work then come home, then (presumably) turn over their earnings to Mommy and Daddy when they could build a life of their own with that money?   Do they wonder why they don't have a family yet?  Or date?  Do they wonder why Daddy keeps working on Vine Valley (hint: maybe to keep them at home because he "needs" their help)?

There must be some sort of spectrum, even if it's a narrow one.  Some - maybe the oldest ones - don't question anything. Best family in the world, Godliest lifestyle, they can be in the world but not of it.....but there have to be some who question and wonder a.  what the hell is really going on and b. when and how will they ever get out?   Brainwashing can't work equally on everyone and let's face it, all parents of large families lose their grip on middle or younger children. They lavish a lot on energy and attention on the older ones, but it's hard to maintain the same level of involvement with child number 12.

Beyond working in the real world - even 16 year old Peter is working weddings now -  they have many aunties and cousins who, from a review of their facebook pages at least, appear to be pretty normal people.  And they have skills!  On the surface, the manboys appear to be well-poised to move out and on if one or two of them decides to.  But with each year that passes you have to wonder what they are so afraid of.  It must be fear, terrible fear, that is overriding the normal sex drive in so many men.