Arndt Man Boys & Mary-Elizabeth living out their own unique stories

[Carm_88]

2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

     Oh my what a good laugh! I guess not but a bunch of grown men living at home celebrating thier birthday in thier parents bedroom is pretty strange. 

       I am sure Mulder would too.

And doing their Day before your birthday dance or song whatever it is. Mulder would think that they were aliens for sure. 

[anjulibai]

I suspect Rick and Kathy use the guys to keep each other in line. They have meetings at times where they pray over one of the guys for some unstated reason, and then all is well. The guys themselves are convincing each other to stay, through a weird sort of spiritual peer pressure. I imagine it gets physically intimidating at times to have so many of your brothers gang up on you, praying at you, to have a change of heart about whatever it is Rick and Kathy don't like. 

[JenniferJuniper]

17 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

I suspect Rick and Kathy use the guys to keep each other in line. They have meetings at times where they pray over one of the guys for some unstated reason, and then all is well. The guys themselves are convincing each other to stay, through a weird sort of spiritual peer pressure. I imagine it gets physically intimidating at times to have so many of your brothers gang up on you, praying at you, to have a change of heart about whatever it is Rick and Kathy don't like. 

I can see this.   They certainly don't seem to be plotting a revolt or even a departure.

The brother thing is so weird to me.  I have a few and have known many.   To quote a member of Spinal Tap, "Brothers always fight".   It's just normal for brothers to fight and to argue, even brothers with a fair amount of personal space.   These guys have none of that, yet Rick has for 16 years now presented the household as one of complete harmony, cooperation, and mutual respect among 13 brothers. Either he's full of shit and only presenting  an illusion of what he wants things to be, or he's telling the truth.   The thought that he may be telling the truth is really scary to me.  It's just so far from normal, natural behavior.

Speaking of natural behavior, I've never been a young man, but I can't imagine how stressful it must be to have zero privacy and personal space when you're 36 years old and have never even dated.

 

 

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Speaking of natural behavior, I've never been a young man, but I can't imagine how stressful it must be to have zero privacy and personal space when you're 36 years old and have never even dated.

And you would think that this would cause more fights. Not the lovely everything is beautiful life that they say they are living

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

10 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Either he's full of shit and only presenting  an illusion of what he wants things to be, or he's telling the truth.   The thought that he may be telling the truth is really scary to me.  It's just so far from normal, natural behavior.

Speaking of natural behavior, I've never been a young man, but I can't imagine how stressful it must be to have zero privacy and personal space when you're 36 years old and have never even dated

Hi!   I'm new here and have been lurking this thread for a few weeks.

If Rick is telling the truth, there must be saltpeter in their kool aid pitcher 24/7. I am mostly kidding when I say that , but it just seems so statistically unlikely that all of the adult children in a family of 10+ kids just happen to like living at home with their parents well into their 20's and 30's,  and never wanted to move out or get married (even though marriage is the only way their religion allows them to have sex or even hug/kiss someone romantically.) One or two, yes, but all of them? Yep, no red flags there, people....just move along now....

[Carm_88]

8 hours ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

Hi!   I'm new here and have been lurking this thread for a few weeks.

If Rick is telling the truth, there must be saltpeter in their kool aid pitcher 24/7. I am mostly kidding when I say that , but it just seems so statistically unlikely that all of the adult children in a family of 10+ kids just happen to like living at home with their parents well into their 20's and 30's,  and never wanted to move out or get married (even though marriage is the only way their religion allows them to have sex or even hug/kiss someone romantically.) One or two, yes, but all of them? Yep, no red flags there, people....just move along now....

Oh come on! They're safe at home, what more could they want? Plus they get to film Vine Valley! It's going to be an Oscar winner!  

[Anonymousguest]

I think it's an illusion. I just don't think it's possible for that many grown men to stay home completely at peace and completely chaste. And it makes me feel much better to think that! Papa Arndt presents to the public what he wants people to see. Maybe it's even what he sees and believes. But the guys are actually dating and living normal lives. (Ignoring the fact it's abnormal for that many adults in a big family to never marry).

Have they ever addressed why none of their adult children have married?

[JenniferJuniper]

6 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

I think it's an illusion. I just don't think it's possible for that many grown men to stay home completely at peace and completely chaste. And it makes me feel much better to think that! Papa Arndt presents to the public what he wants people to see. Maybe it's even what he sees and believes. But the guys are actually dating and living normal lives. (Ignoring the fact it's abnormal for that many adults in a big family to never marry).

Have they ever addressed why none of their adult children have married?

I think/hope that too.  But there is no external sign of it, in either Rick's diary or the older boys' facebook pages.  (The younger men and Mary appear not to be allowed FB pages.  I think James is the youngest of them and he must be in his late 20's.)  Still, the harmony stuff must be at least part fabrication.

As for them addressing the lack of girlfriends, for many years Mark and Luke had their diaries posted on the FamPage. Luke's went back to his early teen years.  They both appeared to have been brainwashed into believing they had to wait for "God's best", the perfect mates hand-selected for them who would magically appear before them and they would know instantly when they found them.

God has not seen fit to deliver any ladies.  Although a non-supernatural guess is that they don't live and work within a circle of like-minded fundies so perfect gals are non-existent.  And the Arndt boys must seem more than a little weird to the women they do interact with.

You'd think by now some of them would resorted to a Christian dating site, but maybe that would be way too much interference with God's Great Plan for the Very Special Arndts.   Or maybe Rick is just happy having so many personal worker bees.

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I think/hope that too.  But there is no external sign of it, in either Rick's diary or the older boys' facebook pages.  (The younger men and Mary appear not to be allowed FB pages.  I think James is the youngest of them and he must be in his late 20's.)  Still, the harmony stuff must be at least part fabrication.

As for them addressing the lack of girlfriends, for many years Mark and Luke had their diaries posted on the FamPage. Luke's went back to his early teen years.  They both appeared to have been brainwashed into believing they had to wait for "God's best", the perfect mates hand-selected for them who would magically appear before them and they would know instantly when they found them.

God has not seen fit to deliver any ladies.  Although a non-supernatural guess is that they don't live and work within a circle of like-minded fundies so perfect gals are non-existent.  And the Arndt boys must seem more than a little weird to the women they do interact with.

You'd think by now some of them would resorted to a Christian dating site, but maybe that would be way too much interference with God's Great Plan for the Very Special Arndts.   Or maybe Rick is just happy having so many personal worker bees.

James is the same age as me, he's 28. 

There is never a reason why they don't have girlfriends but I think that they seem to think that God will make the perfect woman fall on their compound and they will know that she's the one. Rick is definitely having too much fun having so many worker bees. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

"Personal Worker Bees" -- Ding, ding we have a winner!!  If the kidults married and had families of their own to support, who would do all of Rick's work?  Who would support him and Kathy?  Who would pay for VV filming /editing? Who would go on those long drives with him?

Rick long ago abandoned the task of supporting the family to his sons.  If they aren't doing it, Rick sure isn't going back to work.

Has Rick every mentioned taking Mary Elizabeth on one of those long drives, or is that only father-son time?

I used to think Steve Maxwell was the worst parent **ever**, but I'm starting to think it's Rick

[JenniferJuniper]

7 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Has Rick every mentioned taking Mary Elizabeth on one of those long drives, or is that only father-son time?

I used to think Steve Maxwell was the worst parent **ever**, but I'm starting to think it's Rick

Yes, Mary goes on long rides with Dad to get fountain sodas.  Not as many as John and Paul, but probably more than some of the other younger ones. 

I agree.  Rick and Cathy may look more normal on the surface, but they have royally screwed over all of their kids.

[Carm_88]

6 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes, Mary goes on long rides with Dad to get fountain sodas.  Not as many as John and Paul, but probably more than some of the other younger ones. 

I agree.  Rick and Cathy may look more normal on the surface, but they have royally screwed over all of their kids.

John and Paul are the two oldest aren't they? I bet they are getting sick of being told to "Wait..." It must get annoying to be constantly told to wait for god to send you the perfect lady, when maybe you thought that you met her. I bet Rick comes up with many reasons that they could not possibly be the right woman. *Pure speculation of course* 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I'll admit that I watch too much "Criminal Minds", but the abnormal behaviors they encounter fascinate me.  From the show I've learned about "family annihilators".  These are usually men who kill their entire familes, frequently to "save" them from something.

Now I am ABSOLUTELY NOT saying Rick is an annihilator,  But his whole Safe at Home thing is definitely his way of protecting and saving his children from ...... The evil outside world? The sin of ever having sex? Immodest clothing? Falling in love?  Having their own interests?.   Who knows?  I can't imagine, but there is a reason somewhere in Rick's warped mind.

My point is that in the right set of circumstances, I could see someone like Rick, if confronted by adult children who were striking out on their own, annihilating his family in order to keep them safe from whatever "monsters" the father believes are out in the world.

Better that everyone is dead and 'Safe at Home in Heaven' than away from the family and out in the world.

[JenniferJuniper]

41 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I'll admit that I watch too much "Criminal Minds", but the abnormal behaviors they encounter fascinate me.  From the show I've learned about "family annihilators".  These are usually men who kill their entire familes, frequently to "save" them from something.

Now I am ABSOLUTELY NOT saying Rick is an annihilator,  But his whole Safe at Home thing is definitely his way of protecting and saving his children from ...... The evil outside world? The sin of ever having sex? Immodest clothing? Falling in love?  Having their own interests?.   Who knows?  I can't imagine, but there is a reason somewhere in Rick's warped mind.

My point is that in the right set of circumstances, I could see someone like Rick, if confronted by adult children who were striking out on their own, annihilating his family in order to keep them safe from whatever "monsters" the father believes are out in the world.

Better that everyone is dead and 'Safe at Home in Heaven' than away from the family and out in the world.

So long as the kids are bringing in the bacon Rick can live happily in his weird little fantasy world.  

But someday the curtain will be rung down and Rick and Cathy will join the choir invisible.  Then what happens to the middle aged orphans?  Things might get scary then.

Luke just posted this.  Before I clicked on the smaller version,  I thought, OMG, it's a girlfriend!   He's reading this thread and wants to straighten out our nosy arses.  

But alas, it's Mary

 

[nokidsmom]

3 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

"Personal Worker Bees" -- Ding, ding we have a winner!!  If the kidults married and had families of their own to support, who would do all of Rick's work?  Who would support him and Kathy?  Who would pay for VV filming /editing? Who would go on those long drives with him?

Rick long ago abandoned the task of supporting the family to his sons.  If they aren't doing it, Rick sure isn't going back to work.

Has Rick every mentioned taking Mary Elizabeth on one of those long drives, or is that only father-son time?

I used to think Steve Maxwell was the worst parent **ever**, but I'm starting to think it's Rick

ITA on Rick and his "worker bees". The older ones go out and earn the money but no doubt once they are home, along with Mary and the younger sons, they are helping to keep the household running in terms of chores and repairs.   So Rick and Cathy get a lot of mileage (for lack of a better term) out of their kids in terms of support. 

Still, that 14 kids are doing this to the detriment of their own lives and goals without question is a mystery. One would think that if any one of them honestly woke up to what their parents are doing, he would get majorly pissed off. And that would prompt leaving the home, especially if it was one of the earners. 

The more time I spend on FJ the more I have to juggle who is the worst dad of the two: Rick or Steve Maxwell.  I used to think Steve was the worst, hands down but not now.  It's pretty bad when the likes of Steve Maxwell has a competitor for "The Parent Who Most Fucked Over Their Kids" award

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Rick is 60.  If he lives another 25 years and expires at 85,  Paul the oldest will be 61.  That's beyond middle age. David the youngest will be 38. Suppose Rick lives to 95 , Paul will be 71.

Imagine waiting your entire adult life for your parents to pass away so you can finally have your own life.  And then you realize your life is 2/3 over. I can visualize some serious anger there and no one/ no way to direct it

[nokidsmom]

Just now, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Rick is 60.  If he lives another 25 years and expires at 85,  Paul the oldest will be 61.  That's beyond middle age. David the youngest will be 38. Suppose Rick lives to 95 , Paul will be 71.

Imagine waiting your entire adult life for your parents to pass away so you can finally have your own life.  And then you realize your life is 2/3 over. I can visualize some serious anger there and no one/ no way to direct it

For these guys or anyone else living in a similar situation, if the prospect of waiting decades to finally live your life, doesn't propel you out of that situation, I don't know what will.   I had a similar situation in my family though not as extreme and once I realized what was going on, I was out of there and didn't look back.   Best thing I ever did, 

Of course, one has to realize it in order to do something about it.  It appears that none of the manboys are there yet which is concerning considering that the oldest one is pushing 40.

[Carm_88]

6 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

For these guys or anyone else living in a similar situation, if the prospect of waiting decades to finally live your life, doesn't propel you out of that situation, I don't know what will.   I had a similar situation in my family though not as extreme and once I realized what was going on, I was out of there and didn't look back.   Best thing I ever did, 

Of course, one has to realize it in order to do something about it.  It appears that none of the manboys are there yet which is concerning considering that the oldest one is pushing 40.

If something doesn't change before Paul hits 40, I don't know if it ever will. That's scary, having to wait until your parents are gone to be who you want to be. Steve Maxwell definitely has competition in Rick. And Cathy, I don't know about her either. She's definitely not pushing them to leave. 

[nokidsmom]

1 minute ago, Carm_88 said:

If something doesn't change before Paul hits 40, I don't know if it ever will. That's scary, having to wait until your parents are gone to be who you want to be. Steve Maxwell definitely has competition in Rick. And Cathy, I don't know about her either. She's definitely not pushing them to leave. 

No she isn't.  I think in addition to the financial support, she is the one who depends the most on the household support since Rick lives in his fantasy world.  So it's two fold.  And possibly she's vested in her role as a mom and a mom of a large family.

[Lurky]

I guess what surprises me is Cathy takes such pride in being the mother of a large family, but doesn't want the same for her kids.  I wonder if there's some of that "brought up my siblings, don't want a mega family" going on with some of the boys, but it's really surprising to see massive family parents NOT wanting the same - and out of all of the ones we talk about the Arndt manboys are the ones who could support their own quivers.

[Carm_88]

I honestly thought that Cathy would be one of those Mom's who would push for grandbabies but I think she's stuck still seeing her boys and Mary as babies. Poor kidults. 

[December]

6 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Rick is 60.  If he lives another 25 years and expires at 85,  Paul the oldest will be 61.  That's beyond middle age. David the youngest will be 38. Suppose Rick lives to 95 , Paul will be 71.

Imagine waiting your entire adult life for your parents to pass away so you can finally have your own life.  And then you realize your life is 2/3 over. I can visualize some serious anger there and no one/ no way to direct it

 

I absolutely can't imagine it. I think pretty much any parent comes to the realization eventually that their kid's an adult and capable/deserving of living their own life. I can't there wouldn't be some anger somewhere like you said. The thing that mystifies me the most about this is there's such a huge emphasis on family, and yet in practice, there's no encouraging the grown-up children to form their own families, give them grandchildren, etc. 

[MarblesMom]

7 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

 

Rick is 60.  If he lives another 25 years and expires at 85,  Paul the oldest will be 61.  That's beyond middle age.

 

Ahem, wow,  61 is beyond middle age?!    I didn't get that memo...

[anjulibai]

29 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

Ahem, wow,  61 is beyond middle age?!    I didn't get that memo...

Um, yes. People don't tend to live to 120, a single instance aside. What is middle aged to you? 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

OK I'll concede that no one wanst to think of 61 as middle aged   : )   However, for Paul ( given his birth year) he would be only 6 years from being eligible to collect Social Security.  So not old, but no longer in the blush of youth either.