Arndt Man Boys & Mary-Elizabeth living out their own unique stories

[Bbfamteam]

I'm heading to Arndtland today, also known as Busch Stadium. I personally hate the Cardinals but love my husband enough to win him tickets at a silent auction. The only thing that could make today better, besides the trip to the casino afterward, would be an Arndt sighting. They are a fascinating, yet disturbing group of individuals.  Wait, maybe individuals is a bad word given the level of enmeshment that exists in the family to the point that no one is willing to step out and at least get an apartment together despite having jobs, outside acquaintances, and being over 30. Safe at home, I think so.

[anachronistic]

I lived at home till I was 31. Mostly because with my Asperger's syndrome, I wasn't ready to be on my own yet. But I still paid rent, held a part time job, had my own life, and was actively seeking to be more independent. Comparing the Ardnts situation to that of almost any other adult living with their parents can't and shouldn't be done because it's a whole different category. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to stuffed penguins.

[JenniferJuniper]

On 6/4/2016 at 10:20 AM, nokidsmom said:

While I personally cringed whenever I heard a parent say that once their kids turn 18, they are out of the house, I also think that parents holding on to their adult children and keeping them from leaving home and forging their own lives is the much more unhealthy option.   I get that many young adults remain at home because of higher costs of living,  limited job opportunities, student loans, etc. and there's nothing wrong with that.   But when it's parents who actively seek to keep adult children at home, by limiting education, work opportunities, guilt, fear, obligation, or whatever else, there's something very wrong. 

I turned 18 in the 80's (the job situation was really bad) and my youngest siblings in the mid-90's.  My parents believed adults should start forging their own lives as soon as possible and you could not stay at home after 18 if you weren't working close to full time or going to school full time.  If you opted to work instead of stay in school full time, a percentage of your earnings had to be handed over as contribution to the household.  One sister balked at paying $35 dollars a week and was asked to leave at 19.  She moved in with friends and today is very successful business woman and a great mother to my amazing nephews (the 16 year old has his own landscaping business). Anecdotal story, of course, but my parents were determined that their kids learn the importance of independence and the need to work to survive.   

I get that things are different today, particularly with regard to housing costs, but there are plenty of jobs in most areas for those who are willing to start at the very bottom.  I'll be facing the same thing with my 17 year old who is not likely to go to college when she graduates from high school next year.   She's working two part time jobs now and if she's opting out of any kind of education, I'll expect her to look to expand to full time work.  And if she's going to live at home, she'll need to hand over a portion of her earnings as rent.  Not because I need the money, but because I want her to start experiencing adult life, and hopefully this will encourage her to think a little more about her future as time goes on.

I have a number of friends who allow their fully unemployed adult kids to stay at home with no expectations that they get any sort of job or contribute anything more to the household than doing the dishes or some laundry.   I'm not sure what the motivations of these parents are. They aren't helping their kids because if you aren't fully in the work force and building a career by your late 20's, the next generation is going swoop in and start taking available work.  My best guess is that this is more about the parents' desire to keep their kids, well, kids.   The Arndts are an extreme example of this, but in their case they have adult kids that are working -  but working exclusively for the benefit of their parents.   

[church_of_dog]

@Bbfamteam, any sightings?  

[katilac]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

 I'll be facing the same thing with my 17 year old who is not likely to go to college when she graduates from high school next year.   She's working two part time jobs now and if she's opting out of any kind of education, I'll expect her to look to expand to full time work.  And if she's going to live at home, she'll need to hand over a portion of her earnings as rent.  Not because I need the money, but because I want her to start experiencing adult life, and hopefully this will encourage her to think a little more about her future as time goes on. 

 I agree that adult offspring need to be in school or working, but I never quite get why attending college means you don't have to pay rent, but working means you do (when parental finances are not a concern). It seems to me that working full-time or near full-time is just as adult as attending school, if not more so, but the college kid not only doesn't have to pay, they usually get continued financial support. 

My kids are probably both heading straight to college, so these are just my thoughts as an observer. If dd the younger decides to work instead of go to school, we might have an agreement that so much of her paycheck goes into a savings account for when she moves out. I do see how it could be a bad idea for them to get used to spending an entire paycheck without considering rent! 

 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 I agree that adult offspring need to be in school or working, but I never quite get why attending college means you don't have to pay rent, but working means you do (when parental finances are not a concern). It seems to me that working full-time or near full-time is just as adult as attending school, if not more so, but the college kid not only doesn't have to pay, they usually get continued financial support.

 

In my family, it was because kids put themselves through college.  My parents couldn't afford to contribute anything and in my case I went to school full time and worked two jobs.  About half of my college years I lived with friends off-campus, the other half at home.  My parents knew all of my money was going to school, books, transportation, etc. so as not to discourage my graduating in 4 years they did not ask for any money when I had to return home for financial reasons.

I have a daughter starting her final year of college and she has always lived with a multitude of roommates in a Boston triple-decker,  but if she were to live at home I would expect money from her part-time and summer jobs to go towards her school expenses, not me. Her father is helping her, but she's doing a lot of it on her own (state school) and she's responsible for any loans.

As much as I'd like to see my 17 year old go to college, it's not for everyone and she may be someone who goes to school later in life. God knows she's smart enough, she just hates authority figures and likes smoking pot (in the school parking lot of all places, I found out last week).   But once formal education stops and she's working full-time (as she knows she'll be expected to) I have no intention of making life too cushy for her.  It's grown up time, and she'll pay rent.

So to sum up, I guess it's to encourage education over unskilled full-time work, whether it be college or trade school.    

[Bbfamteam]

9 hours ago, church_of_dog said:

@Bbfamteam, any sightings?  

At first I thought this guy sitting near us may be an Arndt. He had that strange cadence to his voice, resembled the Arndt manboys and seemed kind of awkward. Then I realized he was with a girl and drinking a beer and figured no way.

[Tangy Bee]

Maybe they are saving up money for "if & when" they get married. Does anyone know if every brother owns a car or do they share cars??

[JenniferJuniper]

23 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Maybe they are saving up money for "if & when" they get married. Does anyone know if every brother owns a car or do they share cars??

That's a good question.  Certain older ones have cars that are referred to as theirs, but I don't think all 12 driving offspring (Number 13 may have his license as well; I don't know, but he's old enough) have assigned vehicles.  I'm not sure what the threshold is for an Arndt to be able to "own" his or her personal vehicle, although my guess would be the ones that travel on their own to record depositions are probably the most likely to have their own. They're also earning more money than others in the family.  Including Daddy.

Most of the manboys and probably Mary, who is in the business as well, were photographing weddings on Saturday so it's not likely they would have been at a Cardinals game.  June being wedding month and all.

 

[nokidsmom]

13 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

In my family, it was because kids put themselves through college.  My parents couldn't afford to contribute anything and in my case I went to school full time and worked two jobs.  About half of my college years I lived with friends off-campus, the other half at home.  My parents knew all of my money was going to school, books, transportation, etc. so as not to discourage my graduating in 4 years they did not ask for any money when I had to return home for financial reasons.

This was the case with me, my folks did not charge me rent while in college.  While my folks did contribute towards tuition, it was part of the tuition only.  I had to come up with the money for rest of the tuition, books, transportation, and worked a job the entire school year going full time during breaks.    Once I graduated, they started charging me rent but the portion was reasonable and I didn't balk at it.

However, they didn't quite follow through with my sisters.  Both sisters started college then quit, one midway, the other after the first year.  I heard that neither paid rent (I had moved out by then) though both were working.   Not sure why my folks didn't enforce this, because they were quite adamant with me about not charging rent while in school, but once you were done or quit and were working, they expected this as part of being at home.  I chalked this up to my being the oldest and the first to do everything, so they enforced their rules the most, but got more lax with the others as the reason for not enforcing this.    Still I was surprised they didn't enforce this particular rule. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

I think few parents would actually demand rent from a kid who doesn't have an income for whatever reason. If someone hasn't got money coming in then they can't give you any.

Not everyone is capable of working while doing full time education. In a lot of cases that would sabotage someone's chances at finishing their degree and being able to support themselves, and I don't think many people would do that to their kids. Obviously if they need to money that's different, but charging rent on principle? 

Demanding rent if your kid can afford it is one thing, and kicking them out for not being able to pay is another. It's the difference between encouraging independence and screwing them over for not meeting standards. If a kid could move out and isn't, sure, kicking them out or asking for rent might be a good idea.

They charge my sister rent, and have since she got a job, but it's not much and they wouldn't kick her out if she didn't pay it or lost her job.

I know some parents will, but my parents were horrified when my aunt told them they should kick me out for not going to school enough. I was having health problems and a serious mental health crisis, kicking me out wouldn't have made me go to school, it would have made me sleep on the streets. I don't think my parents are exceptional in being horrified by the idea of making me homeless on purpose. Mind you my aunt does think that all disabilities are caused by parents not being tough enough on their kids.

Some kids might need more support or a bit of a kick up the arse to leave home, and I have no idea what the Ardnt's are doing that results in so many adults living at home. It's just so odd. They all have jobs, doesn't any of them want their own space? Even doing a maxwell and moving in next door?

[MatthewDuggar]

Ma & Pa Arndt must be seriously anti-college.  I'd have to think that at least one of the manboys/wizzy would have aspirations of something other than court reporting or photography.  I'm sure they don't want them to "leave home" obviously, but none of them has even went to a community college or attempted an online university.  (that we're aware of)

[JenniferJuniper]

5 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Ma & Pa Arndt must be seriously anti-college.  I'd have to think that at least one of the manboys/wizzy would have aspirations of something other than court reporting or photography.  I'm sure they don't want them to "leave home" obviously, but none of them has even went to a community college or attempted an online university.  (that we're aware of)

My guess is that there are a couple of things going on.  They aren't anti-education necessarily, just anti-socialization with the "wrong elements" they believe their darling little ducklings (one who is soon to be 36) might encounter at a community college.  And at this point, they seem to have effectively brainwashed everyone into believing broad based education outside the home would not be a good idea.

However, the other thing seems to be that Rick wants any post-high school level education focused like a laser on bettering and expanding the family businesses.  He has mentioned that some of the "kids" , including Mary, have taken photography courses and it didn't sound like they were given by Jude.  So whether this was on-line or actually at a college I don't know, but it was for a very specific purpose - one that benefits Rick directly because the better the family businesses are doing, the less he has to worry about finances.   Rick now considers his only "work" to be Vine Valley.

I saw this week that they are once again filming the scene where Rick's character nurses a broken leg in an abandoned trailer.  As we saw this scene years ago, they're re-filming again. I've lost track of how many years this has gone on, but I can't imagine it will ever end.  They are running into all sorts of continuity problems (Cathy recently lost a blouse in a hotel that she's worn in most scenes and they were in a panic until they tracked it down) the most obvious being the aging of all the characters.  It's little wonder he's watching everyone's weight so closely.  Creepy is too mild a word.

 

[Elegant Mess]

Has anyone here come across this????

I did a Google search on the Arndt family the other day, and several pages into the search results, I came across an interesting chapter on collecting and dispersing experience from a book by Steven D. Brown, called "The Social Psychology of Experience:  Studies in Remembering and Forgetting".  In this chapter, he discusses excerpts from websites of several families, including the Arndt's FamTeam website.  This paragraph on p. 193 stood out to me, because many of us on FJ have commented before on the seemingly odd details that Rick overshares with readers while glossing over others:

Quote

Celia Lury (1997) terms this induction into the everyday experiences of others 'interiority without intimacy'.  What she identifies is the tension between the making visible of daily life in minute detail with the simultaneous estrangement from potential matters of real substance.  For instance, Rick's fireside chats do not typically dwell on the nature of his particular Christian beliefs or explicate the basis for his values and personal commitments (although these kinds of issues are raised elsewhere on the website).  It would seem that this kind of reflection is disruptive of the attempt to create shared experience.  To put it more crudely, the more deeply one is drawn into life with the Arndts, the less able one is to question or evaluate that life.  A form of closeness is available at the cost of simultaneous distancing. 

For those interested, the link I found is here:
https://books.google.com/books?id=5bZ-wpmTopAC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=arndt+family&source=bl&ots=GOPu3S_M_4&sig=tOz1xhi8BOGWIri07hXCTwNhJVk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8kqyfrJjNAhUPSFIKHTeyDhw4MhDoAQg6MAk#v=onepage&q=arndt%20family&f=false

I also found it amusing that when I typed "Arndt family" into Google, it wanted to autocomplete with "creepy"!

 

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

54 minutes ago, Elegant Mess said:

"To put it more crudely, the more deeply one is drawn into life with the Arndts, the less able one is to question or evaluate that life. "

Well this author friggin nailed it...from the inside looking out (the manboys), AND the outside looking in (since they're the biggest mystery on FJ)
Great find Elegant Mess!

[Black Aliss]

On 5/24/2016 at 5:55 AM, LadyCrow1313 said:

This. Don't they (not just the Arndt's, but all other Fundie families) realize the long term effects of stunting their children's growth? Or are they that selfish & short-sighted that they don't realize what they're doing (or most likely, are super arrogant & simply don't care about what they're doing to their kids)?

Try to look at it this way: They're not reproducing. That's a hundred or more little fundies who will never exist.

[JenniferJuniper]

20 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Try to look at it this way: They're not reproducing. That's a hundred or more little fundies who will never exist.

I'm convinced most of them who keep their kids safe at home like the Arndts believe the rapture will be here before the grandchildren-era army of Christ is going to be needed.

[gustava]

1 hour ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I'm convinced most of them who keep their kids safe at home like the Arndts believe the rapture will be here before the grandchildren-era army of Christ is going to be needed.

Interesting point.  Do all fundies (and I'm not sure I'd term the Arndts' fundie...maybe fanatics) believe in the Rapture?  Would it fit into the Arndts' world view.

[MatthewDuggar]

Based on Rick's Ramblings, it seems their specific brand of fundieism rests heavily on God driving every decision.  The daily "meeting" in the "upper room" seems to be where they draw the answers to everyday and well difficult issues.  Rick spoke that he "came to Christ" after have a speaking in tongues episode in his bedroom as a young man.   He also mentions getting clear direction while driving.  It's as is the concept of "free-will" does not exist.   I'm not sure what their thoughts are on the Rapture, but I wouldn't be suprised if that's what happens at the end of Vine Valley to Rick and Little Red Short Shorts.

[nokidsmom]

11 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Based on Rick's Ramblings, it seems their specific brand of fundieism rests heavily on God driving every decision.  The daily "meeting" in the "upper room" seems to be where they draw the answers to everyday and well difficult issues.  Rick spoke that he "came to Christ" after have a speaking in tongues episode in his bedroom as a young man.   He also mentions getting clear direction while driving.  It's as is the concept of "free-will" does not exist.   I'm not sure what their thoughts are on the Rapture, but I wouldn't be suprised if that's what happens at the end of Vine Valley to Rick and Little Red Short Shorts.

To the bolded: this made me lol.   After watched the one Vine Valley clip where Rick is stumbling through the snow and encounters Cathy, it struck me as having a little Red Riding Hood vibe to it.  

[refugee]

1 hour ago, gustava said:

Interesting point.  Do all fundies (and I'm not sure I'd term the Arndts' fundie...maybe fanatics) believe in the Rapture?  Would it fit into the Arndts' world view.

Not all fundies. Those in the church we left behind used to poke fun at the people who believed in the Rapture and the Tribulation and all that stuff.

[JenniferJuniper]

6 hours ago, gustava said:

Interesting point.  Do all fundies (and I'm not sure I'd term the Arndts' fundie...maybe fanatics) believe in the Rapture?  Would it fit into the Arndts' world view.

Rick has mentioned the Rapture (I was mildly surprised which is why I remember it).

No, not all fundies believe in the rapture, but they all think Jesus is coming back soon.  According to a Pew poll, 47% of American Christians (not fundies - all Christians) believe Jesus will be back within 40 years.   Only 10% are certain he won't be back within their lifetimes.

 

 

 

[VooDooChild]

Ugh.  So I got sucked into watching a few FamTeam (such a stupid term) videos.  Who the hell is their audience?  They're edited like they could be tv episodes.  Is that what they were hoping for?  Bizarre family.  Lots of mom worship going on.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

11 hours ago, gustava said:

Interesting point.  Do all fundies (and I'm not sure I'd term the Arndts' fundie...maybe fanatics) believe in the Rapture?

I'm my experience (which is very little) the Church of God and Assemblies of God (both Pentecostal) believe in the tribulation and rapture.  I think the Baptists lean that way too.

[Bbfamteam]

On June 13, 2016 at 3:34 PM, VooDooChild said:

Ugh.  So I got sucked into watching a few FamTeam (such a stupid term) videos.  Who the hell is their audience?  They're edited like they could be tv episodes.  Is that what they were hoping for?  Bizarre family.  Lots of mom worship going on.

They were tv episodes. The Arndts at some point played them on an obscure Christian network. It has been within the last 4 years because I remember scrolling down my TV guide and recognizing the Safe at Home label as being them. I think I tried to watch a couple times but I was so bored I didn't make it longer than 5 min.