Tori Bates Courtship

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

Oh, I think I understand it perfectly. It's that nobody on here is allowed to have an opinion that differs from the standard "if someone is born to a fundie/seen with a fundie/ or even looks at a fundie, they're guilty by association, even if they never voice their opinion for or against the environment in which they were raised."

Nonsense.

If someone here dares object to the standard above, they are singled out and downvoted by the regulars who are replying to every fricken post in this topic. Do you all want this forum to be a bunch of "oh, I agree" posts. I know this post will be downvoted, and I don't care. This isn't a popularity contest.

Don't exaggerate.  I looked back at your content for four pages.  The only time you have been downvoted (14 downvotes, including mine) was when you accused FormerGothardite of "trying to take down this family."  You got my downvote there for attacking another poster, not for expressing your opinion.    

So much time and energy must go into posting about how these families are trying to recruit new members into IBLP... but guess where it's being posted? On FJ, a place where we all know bad shit is happening. No one on here is going to run away and join the cult simply because we like that Alyssa wears pants, or anything superficial like that.

You are putting an awful lot of time and energy into defending Alyssa - for what appear to be very superficial reasons to me. You do realize that we have a much bigger readership than we have members?  And how do you know what people are thinking or planning to do?  

My original comment was asking why the same people who won't let others speak, are mentioning fundie lite as if it does exist in their world - when clearly, it does not? Everyone is the same. No one can ever redeem themselves. Guilty by association. Always.

Who isn't letting you speak?  You post a lot.  You are just being disagreed with and questioned as often happens on FJ.  

As several of us have now explained Fundie-lite is a meaningless term.  I think most people use it as a joke.

(Sorry about the underlining.  My quote function seems to be playing up.)

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, actuallyjessica said:

My question was - why do the regular posters continue to refer to 'fundie' and 'fundie lite' as if there is a difference, and once they reach 'fundie lite' by your standards they will be treated differently? I'm not sure why my question was so hard to understand.

 Nobody *really* knows anything about Bobby other than he goes to a fundie college and is Tori's boyfriend.

I know I've asked this before but, how will you, formergothardite (and others!), know when any of these fundies make the (very personal) decision to live their lives differently to the way they were raised? Only once they make an instagram post saying "I hate Gothard and all things IBLP" what about if they stop speaking to their families? Attend a pro-choice rally? Say they're voting for Hillary?

I ask because I am curious for new discussions, and I hope that this post will spark that.

Well, the first question is unanswerable because we are not a hive and I have no idea which members you mean.  As I've already said, people use it to mean different things.

Bobby Smith goes to a very Fundamentalist college, had an internship last year at a very Fundamental church, and is courting a girl from an extreme Fundamentalist family with the approval of her Fundamentalist father who is on the BoD of IBLP and a true believer in Gothardism. Occam's razor:  the guy is a Fundie.

Actually, you are probably correct.  I will only truly believe that these high profile young people have left the cult of IBLP/ATI when they make a statement repudiating IBLP and all it stands for.  I think the same of people leaving Scientology.  They need to take a stand.

Other young people have done that and not been cut off from their families (the Keller offspring).  Some have done it and been ostracized permanently.  It won't necessarily be easy.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, actuallyjessica said:

Yes, I understand people who wear 'regular' clothing can have some of the most extreme opinions. I never said I was having trouble understanding. My question was - why do the regular posters continue to refer to 'fundie' and 'fundie lite' as if there is a difference, and once they reach 'fundie lite' by your standards they will be treated differently? I'm not sure why my question was so hard to understand.

 Nobody *really* knows anything about Bobby other than he goes to a fundie college and is Tori's boyfriend.

I know I've asked this before but, how will you, formergothardite (and others!), know when any of these fundies make the (very personal) decision to live their lives differently to the way they were raised? Only once they make an instagram post saying "I hate Gothard and all things IBLP" what about if they stop speaking to their families? Attend a pro-choice rally? Say they're voting for Hillary?

I ask because I am curious for new discussions, and I hope that this post will spark that.

I agree with what @OnceUponATimesaid. For me, the difference has more to do with the way they view things then anything else. The more rigid or black and white a person's thinking is the more Fundie they are to me. That doesn't just apply to religion to me either - same thing goes for any belief system or way of living. There are Animal Rights activists that fall into a type of Fundie category in my opinion because they're militant and rigid enough to be incapable of seeing other opinions.

Fundie Lite people are less rigid in their thinking. They can still practice and promote extremely dangerous things, but there is a difference in the way they are able to analyze and respond to things. 

When it comes to the Bates and Duggar offspring it can be difficult to know how they actually view things at times. Some - like Jessa and Ben - make their views pretty clear through social media and, for that reason, we have an easier time fitting them into the Fundie or Fundie-Lite categories. But others, like most of the Bates kids, are relatively quiet about their opinions and views. And that leads to a lot of confusion and disagreement, especially because the show is careful not to fly the Fundie Freak Flag the way TLC has for the Duggars.

For me, they still fall into the Fundie category though - because all the married offspring have agreed to appear on a reality show designed and marketed to make their family and harmful beliefs look normal. Some of them may limit their involvement (or UP doesn't have the budget to constantly film adult children living out of state), but they are involved nonetheless. 

And regarding Zach, Whit, and the Websters specifically they have ventured into the political arena as well. Zach and Whit when he ran for local office (on a disturbing platform if I remember correctly); the Websters when they publicly supported his extremist father's political campaigns. 

I don't expect any of the offspring to suddenly renounce what they've been raised with or anything. It can take a long time to get to that point. But publicly stating their views is really the only way we can know what they feel. Until then I'm going to have to assume that they believe the things they promote through their show, the family's pre-UP blog, and the politicians they choose to support.

[Palimpsest]

44 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Wasn't it reported in a magazine that they were divorcing? He doesn't have any pics of her up on his FB and he was not in recent pics from the funeral the family attended in FL (although Josh Duggar was). 

Which makes me wonder if the Keller family will now say, "see! You stray from God and this is what happens!"

I believe it was reported in People magazine - an infallible source.

Yes, it does look as though they are divorcing, and I find that sad for the sake of the children whatever the reasons.  I hope Rebekah doesn't return to IBLP beliefs.

[nickelodeon]

I don't really fuck with the term "fundie lite" because the space separating "fundamentalism" and "mainstream evangelicalism" has become almost negligible, such that there's not much of an in-between phase for the term to represent. A lot of the beliefs that we associate with fundamentalists and fringe weirdos are held by totally "normal" evangelicals these days: e.g. the pres candidate that mainstream evangelical America chose to represent them was a guy whose wife isn't allowed to ~defy his authority~ when he wants to buy 100 cans of soup. Makes categorization of people difficult, and the "fundie lite" thing isn't super helpful with that imo.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I believe it was reported in People magazine - an infallible source.

Yes, it does look as though they are divorcing, and I find that sad for the sake of the children whatever the reasons.  I hope Rebekah doesn't return to IBLP beliefs.

Josh McDonald seems like a nice enough guy. So when I first saw they were divorcing, I thought to myself, "the Kellers are losing the wrong son in law named Josh."

[VelociRapture]

28 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

I don't really fuck with the term "fundie lite" because the space separating "fundamentalism" and "mainstream evangelicalism" has become almost negligible, such that there's not much of an in-between phase for the term to represent. A lot of the beliefs that we associate with fundamentalists and fringe weirdos are held by totally "normal" evangelicals these days: e.g. the pres candidate that mainstream evangelical America chose to represent them was a guy whose wife isn't allowed to ~defy his authority~ when he wants to buy 100 cans of soup. Makes categorization of people difficult, and the "fundie lite" thing isn't super helpful with that imo.

It can be confusing.

I think everyone probably has different thresholds for what they think qualifies someone as Fundie or Fundie-Lite and that can lead to miscommunication at times. The way I view it, the main difference is that Fundie-Lite people have less rigid views or beliefs than Fundies do. To me, Fundie-Lite would be someone has horrible beliefs, but doesn't want to push them on other people or is open to seriously considering other points of view. It doesn't change their current horrible beliefs, but it does leave wiggle room for growth and development, which you don't really see with people who are Fundie.

Maybe there's a better term for that, but I'm not sure what it would be. I'm totally open to suggestions for other terms though - it may help clear up confusion.

[vienna]

I don't know weather it is wise to post this,  I really dont want any trouble, but  here it is:

I stopped posting on the bates thread a while ago. The reason is that I feel like the second one posts anything about the Bates that is not condemning them, like recognising that Alyssa cut her hair and daring to think this might be a good thing  (even though she  obviously still is who she is) you get slapped. It seems like some people here are experts and everyone having a different view needs to be corrected immediately. 

In the end non of us can see through any of the bates kids, non of us knows if or how their believes vary from there parents one. We are here to discuss it. We are here to watch what they say/do/omitted to do and talk about it. Alyssa not going to the ibpl conference can be noted. And one  can think this is a good thing    without beeing lectured that nothing here is good because she still is 100% fundi , nothing (like Erine posting on instagram that they do not support Gotham  (anymore))    is allowed to mean anything  and they all   have been and alway will be fundis. 

To me it is often a comparison to the Duggars and when positive differences are noted this does not mean that the Bates are breaking free from religion. I actally don't think that anyone here doubts that the bible governs their life, that they see themselves as soldiers in the war for Jesus and against  the liberal ages and so on. Does one have to state this 20 times around  a sentence   containing anything other than how bad they are?

 

 

[formergothardite]

2 hours ago, vienna said:

like recognising that Alyssa cut her hair and daring to think this might be a good thing  (even though she  obviously still is who she is) you get slapped.

I was the one who responded to you and if by "slapped" you mean correcting the wrong information that this was "extraordinary" that a cult member do that,  then I guess I did. What exactly do you expect other members to do when you post incorrect information? For example you have also several times stated that Gil is a good influence on other cult members, another false idea because all the more "liberal" things the Bates do have been a part of IBLP for about a decade and Gil isn't helping anyone, he is hurting people. Again, when people post incorrect information, should this be allowed to go uncorrected? Should we just threads just be filled with information that isn't true?

 

2 hours ago, vienna said:

Alyssa not going to the ibpl conference can be noted. And one  can think this is a good thing    without beeing lectured that nothing here is good because she still is 100% fundi , nothing (like Erine posting on instagram that they do not support Gotham  (anymore))    is allowed to mean anything  and they all   have been and alway will be fundis. 

Here is the problem with people taking non-important things and blowing them up into signs that Erin/Alyssa/whateverBates is less fundie, most of the time it isn't a sign at all. So Alyssa didn't go to the big conference. We have no idea if she went or is going to go to any of the numerous other smaller conferences that were closer to her home. Plus she allowed her whole little family to be used to promote these conferences. So, why should we take her not going to the big conference as a sign of anything except that she didn't go to the big conference?

Also, we have people reading here who only know the Bates from the show and from the social media, so when they come here and read all these posts taking tiny things and using them to say the Bates are less fundamental and better than the Duggars, well they very well might just take that at face value and not realize how evil the Bates are. We had posters that didn't know about the racism, the harsh baby training, the covering up of horrific abuse, and all the other awful stuff about the Bates. So yes, every single thread needs to remind people that the Bates are fucking awful and Gil is a monster in disguise. 

This is a place to snark on fundamentalists, not gush over them. Ever single adult member of this family is hurting people and the threads need to reflect that his is a family that using their television show and social media to spread dangerous lies.  

 

[actuallyjessica]

I don't know weather it is wise to post this,  I really dont want any trouble, but  here it is:

I stopped posting on the bates thread a while ago. The reason is that I feel like the second one posts anything about the Bates that is not condemning them, like recognising that Alyssa cut her hair and daring to think this might be a good thing  (even though she  obviously still is who she is) you get slapped. It seems like some people here are experts and everyone having a different view needs to be corrected immediately. 

In the end non of us can see through any of the bates kids, non of us knows if or how their believes vary from there parents one. We are here to discuss it. We are here to watch what they say/do/omitted to do and talk about it. Alyssa not going to the ibpl conference can be noted. And one  can think this is a good thing    without beeing lectured that nothing here is good because she still is 100% fundi , nothing (like Erine posting on instagram that they do not support Gotham  (anymore))    is allowed to mean anything  and they all   have been and alway will be fundis. 

To me it is often a comparison to the Duggars and when positive differences are noted this does not mean that the Bates are breaking free from religion. I actally don't think that anyone here doubts that the bible governs their life, that they see themselves as soldiers in the war for Jesus and against  the liberal ages and so on. Does one have to state this 20 times around  a sentence   containing anything other than how bad they are?

 

 

Great post! You said exactly what I was trying to. So much so that a simple 'thumbs up' would not have done justice.

[formergothardite]

7 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Great post! You said exactly what I was trying to. So much so that a simple 'thumbs up' would not have done justice.

As I asked her. Should members just let threads get filled up with incorrect and false information making this family look less fundie than they really are? 

I really do hope that you will take the time to answer the questions I asked you in an earlier post. 

ETA: This isn't just for you, all the people who liked vienna's post, what is the answer here? Like the example she used with Alyssa's hair, she posted incorrect information about IBLP, I informed her that it wasn't correct and now that is called "slapping" someone down? 

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

As I asked her. Should members just let threads get filled up with incorrect and false information making this family look less fundie than they really are? 

I really do hope that you will take the time to answer the questions I asked you in an earlier post. 

ETA: This isn't just for you, all the people who liked vienna's post, what is the answer here? Like the example she used with Alyssa's hair, she posted incorrect information about IBLP, I informed her that it wasn't correct and now that is called "slapping" someone down? 

It's the approach...and IMO, it interferes with the message.

[JermajestyDuggar]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

As I asked her. Should members just let threads get filled up with incorrect and false information making this family look less fundie than they really are? 

I really do hope that you will take the time to answer the questions I asked you in an earlier post. 

ETA: This isn't just for you, all the people who liked vienna's post, what is the answer here? Like the example she used with Alyssa's hair, she posted incorrect information about IBLP, I informed her that it wasn't correct and now that is called "slapping" someone down? 

I am fairly new so I can give a pretty unbiased perspective (meaning I am not buddy buddy with anyone). I think that the "slapping" might be in regards to how hardhly some people correct information. It's rather off putting. By all means correct info! But I think some people go beyond correcting info and it could make people not want to post anything even remotely decent about the Bates family. 

1 minute ago, SassyPants said:

It's the approach...and IMO, it interferes with the message.

Well you just said it much more succinctly than myself! I should take notes, lol!

[nelliebelle1197]

On 5/31/2016 at 6:01 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

I like that Alyssa doesn't incessantly talk about god, Jesus, and religion. She is still fundie, but of the Bates kids that are married, I would guess she is currently most likely to one day not be Fundie. But yeah, she's still fundie. I also like that she isn't always keeping sweet. I can't stand that shit.

NONE of them do that. The Bates and the Webster clans both have very carefully crafted public images for very dangerous reasons. Alyssa is the tiny celebrity daughter in law of a wackjob politician whose district is in jeopardy next term. She has to be careful.

And you know, "keeping sweet" is really a FLDS ideology, heavily promoted and institutionalized by the Jeffs as a way to control women and girls, and to train up male children to submit to a prophet. Why does it always come up in discussions of ordinary fundie women? "Keeping sweet" and patriarchical submission are actually different concepts.

[Palimpsest]

3 hours ago, vienna said:

I don't know weather it is wise to post this,  I really dont want any trouble, but  here it is:

You are on the internet.  It is a risk greater than zero that someone will disagree with you.  

 

3 hours ago, vienna said:

I stopped posting on the bates thread a while ago.

Or about 10 days ago.  @formergothardite, who actually lived IBLP, politely disagreed with you about the importance of hair cuts and you took umbrage.

3 hours ago, vienna said:

The reason is that I feel like the second one posts anything about the Bates that is not condemning them, like recognising that Alyssa cut her hair and daring to think this might be a good thing  (even though she  obviously still is who she is) you get slapped. It seems like some people here are experts and everyone having a different view needs to be corrected immediately. 

Not slapped.  Corrected gently.  Yes, I think FG does qualify as an expert.  Perhaps you should try to respect that.

3 hours ago, vienna said:

We are here to discuss it.

And we are discussing it.  Express yourself as you like.  Say what you want. Don't expect that everyone will agree with you - because it is a discussion.

 

3 hours ago, vienna said:

And one  can think this is a good thing    without beeing lectured that nothing here is good because she still is 100% fundi ,

"Lectured" = told that not attending a single event may be irrelevant to a journey out of the cult?  Believe me, many of us are looking and hoping for real indications that any Bates is moving out of the cult.  We just haven't seen them yet.  Still discussing ...

3 hours ago, vienna said:

like Erine posting on instagram that they do not support Gotham  (anymore))    is allowed to mean anything  and they all   have been and alway will be fundis. 

Erin merely distanced herself from ATI (a subset of IBLP) in a nice little demonstration of Fundie-speak.  

Everyone who has been paying attention knows that the Bates family don't support Gothard anymore.  Gil Bates was instrumental in ousting him from IBLP..  Gil and apparently all the scions are all still supporting the evil teachings of IBLP to the hilt.  Forgive me but please:  

- Wake up and smell the coffee.  

- Get with the program.  

- Learn and inform yourself of the background of all of this.

3 hours ago, vienna said:

I actally don't think that anyone here doubts that the bible governs their life, that they see themselves as soldiers in the war for Jesus and against  the liberal ages and so on. Does one have to state this 20 times around  a sentence   containing anything other than how bad they are?

 It must get rather boring, especially for fans who don't like to hear criticism of the dear little Bates family.  The ones selling their souls to promote IBLP on Reality TV.

But, yes.  In big bold fonts:   "FreeJinger is not a Bates family fan site."  and  "We exist to discuss the damage caused by fundamentalists."

So for all who agreed with Vienna:  perhaps (IMO) imaginary or wishful thinking  "baby steps" out of the extreme Fundamentalist mind set by various Bates family members  are best discussed elsewhere - if you don't want to bothered by reality checks here.  

Just a gentle suggestion.

[Palimpsest]

50 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

It's the approach...and IMO, it interferes with the message.

Whose approach?  @actuallyjessica's is rude.

@formergothardite is remarkably polite given the misinformation posted here regularly.  I think it is her persistence in correcting things that people find annoying.  

I'm not nearly as nice as FG.  I don't suffer fools gladly - or as politely.

I would like to remind people that we do have an ignore function - or fans and wishful thinkers always have the option to scroll on by the more informed posters who will persist in those incredibly annoying and unwanted reality checks.

It's the internet, folks.  People will disagree.  Some of us deal with it.

[nelliebelle1197]

9 hours ago, actuallyjessica said:

Oh, I think I understand it perfectly. It's that nobody on here is allowed to have an opinion that differs from the standard "if someone is born to a fundie/seen with a fundie/ or even looks at a fundie, they're guilty by association, even if they never voice their opinion for or against the environment in which they were raised."

If someone here dares object to the standard above, they are singled out and downvoted by the regulars who are replying to every fricken post in this topic. Do you all want this forum to be a bunch of "oh, I agree" posts. I know this post will be downvoted, and I don't care. This isn't a popularity contest.

So much time and energy must go into posting about how these families are trying to recruit new members into IBLP... but guess where it's being posted? On FJ, a place where we all know bad shit is happening. No one on here is going to run away and join the cult simply because we like that Alyssa wears pants, or anything superficial like that.

My original comment was asking why the same people who won't let others speak, are mentioning fundie lite as if it does exist in their world - when clearly, it does not? Everyone is the same. No one can ever redeem themselves. Guilty by association. Always.

You know, you really don't understand perfectly. It is really obvious. A lot of you who are not from the evangelical US, who have no background in extreme religions, you really don't get it. You don't get the culture(s), you don't get it AT ALL. Fundamentalism, even IBLP, is not homogeneous. It does not even mean the same thing to every person. It even seems like you don't  get the purpose of the forum on which you are posting.

And @actuallyjessica, you never answer direct questions. You get all twisted up when reality interferes with your weird Alyssa fantasies and claim that people don't like differing opinions. Well, when opinions have no basis in reality and are turning an anti-fundie discussion forum into an Alyssa Bates love fest and when those opinions downplay how terrible Gil and Kelly Bates really are, then yeah, people are going to call you out. It happens IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD ON FREE JINGER. Someone argues with someone else's opinion. In most of the other threads, differing opinions lead to actual discussion. With the Batesseeess, it becomes fan girls with hurt feelers and fingers in the ears and a few hearty souls stemming the tide. And it gets old. Why do you think @Curious added the big old not a fan site warning?

The Bates are not better than the Duggars. A lot of folks figure the irrational hate of the Duggars leads to the Bates fever frenzy. But you know what? In reality, the Duggars are better than the Bates. JimBob always had an income (unlike Gil,who has taught course in grifting), has had a relatively limited involvement with IBLP (and unlike Gil, zero governance) and his kids HAVE married outside the fold and have their own opinions. JimBob covered up Josh's attacks on his 4 sisters and dealt with everything inside his family, but Gil Bates covered up 30 years of abuse of other people's children, helped to oust Gothard and is part of the rebranding of IBLP. Think it is a coincidence his show turned up around the same time?

If you want to squee about Alyssa's tacky behavior and idolize her, if you want to talk about the great parenting skills of Kelly, if you want 'ship Cherin, do it. Just do it on a fan site. You will be much happier.

[JermajestyDuggar]

37 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

You know, you really don't understand perfectly. It is really obvious. A lot of you who are not from the evangelical US, who have no background in extreme religions, you really don't get it. You don't get the culture(s), you don't get it AT ALL. Fundamentalism, even IBLP, is not homogeneous. It does not even mean the same thing to every person. It even seems like you don't  get the purpose of the forum on which you are posting.

And @actuallyjessica, you never answer direct questions. You get all twisted up when reality interferes with your weird Alyssa fantasies and claim that people don't like differing opinions. Well, when opinions have no basis in reality and are turning an anti-fundie discussion forum into an Alyssa Bates love fest and when those opinions downplay how terrible Gil and Kelly Bates really are, then yeah, people are going to call you out. It happens IN EVERY SINGLE THREAD ON FREE JINGER. Someone argues with someone else's opinion. In most of the other threads, differing opinions lead to actual discussion. With the Batesseeess, it becomes fan girls with hurt feelers and fingers in the ears and a few hearty souls stemming the tide. And it gets old. Why do you think @Curious added the big old not a fan site warning?

The Bates are not better than the Duggars. A lot of folks figure the irrational hate of the Duggars leads to the Bates fever frenzy. But you know what? In reality, the Duggars are better than the Bates. JimBob always had an income (unlike Gil,who has taught course in grifting), has had a relatively limited involvement with IBLP (and unlike Gil, zero governance) and his kids HAVE married outside the fold and have their own opinions. JimBob covered up Josh's attacks on his 4 sisters and dealt with everything inside his family, but Gil Bates covered up 30 years of abuse of other people's children, helped to oust Gothard and is part of the rebranding of IBLP. Think it is a coincidence his show turned up around the same time?

If you want to squee about Alyssa's tacky behavior and idolize her, if you want to talk about the great parenting skills of Kelly, if you want 'ship Cherin, do it. Just do it on a fan site. You will be much happier.

See it's this kind of talk that drives people away. You are being extreme. I don't see anyone "fan girling" or "worshipping" anyone. Your language is over the top and it's off putting. 

[Coconut Flan]

Perhaps it's time to take a step back and let things settle.

I'm bringing the wine.  Or is martinis?

[TuringMachine]

I'll like one of the Bates kids when one them publicly states that the fact that their father not only failed to help but also covered up the sexual abuse of many women and girls is really fucked up.  Until then, as @formergothardite has said many times, they're implicitly supporting that he's a good, godly person.

[nelliebelle1197]

3 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

See it's this kind of talk that drives people away. You are being extreme. I don't see anyone "fan girling" or "worshipping" anyone. Your language is over the top and it's off putting. 

So you have read all the Bates threads since the show started in the two weeks you have been here? If not, please do. And I am confused at your use of quotes as I used neither phrase in my post.

[stevie]

I feel like these discussions about how bad the Bates are and if they are moving away from fundamentalism are going nowhere. The people who feel like the kid adults are taking baby steps away are not going to change their opinion and the ones who think they aren't taking baby steps, aren't going to change their opinion. I don't think the people who think they are taking baby steps are going to convince the people who think they aren't taking baby steps that they actually are taking baby steps and vice versa. It's like when I try to convince people being gay is not a choice, nothing I say gets through to them. They think they're right and I think I'm right. They're not going to convince me that it's a choice and I'm not going to convince them

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

So you have read all the Bates threads since the show started in the two weeks you have been here? If not, please do. And I am confused at your use of quotes as I used neither phrase in my post.

You used the term "fan girl" and "'ship" which stands for worship correct? 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You used the term "fan girl" and "'ship" which stands for worship correct? 

No. It stands for "relationship".

I love your user name, btw.

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

So you have read all the Bates threads since the show started in the two weeks you have been here? If not, please do. And I am confused at your use of quotes as I used neither phrase in my post.

It's funny that you assume I don't know much about this family just because I like that Alyssa doesn't keep sweet or I notice her body language in the show. I've always seen the bates family the same as the Duggars. They are both big nasty turds, one just happens to be in a cute gift wrapped box. But I can also talk about things that might be good or promising while still knowing they have a shitty core of disgusting beliefs.