Counting On - Part 6: Benye Wants to Give the Gospel to the "Inner City"

[patsymae]

52 minutes ago, ChickenettiLuvr said:

decided not to do my reply but can't get rid of this box. Sorry.

 

26 minutes ago, just...sare said:

decided not to do my reply but can't get rid of this box. Sorry.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

45 minutes ago, RabbitKM said:

I feel like I've seen Italians wearing prayer bead bracelets..? I really don't want to keep harping on this subject, so I'll just leave it at cultural differences.  I wonder what Jilly Muffin would do if she sees people in SintralMerica wearing rosaries as necklaces lol run the other way probably

You can buy bead bracelets.....you can buy them at Whole Foods, among other places. If that is what you mean, or maybe not. I am not Italian, lol. Someone mentioned a smaller Christian bracelet and I used to see them but not worn but carried for "prayer on the run". 

[samira_catlover]

57 minutes ago, tcach said:

They are all so perfectly willfully ignorant that I can't help but think it is calculated on their part. It seems as if it might be a way of proving how unworldly they are as a means to keep their fan base. How many of their followers have travelled as widely and eaten in restaurants other than fast food establishments?

Yeah, but there were a whole lot of blue-collar working folks where I grew up that could swing a "nice" restaurant a couple times a year for special events (think current USD prices of maybe $15/entree, and ethnic specialties tend to be cheaper, at least here in the DC area).  And cookbooks are readily available at libraries for inspirational reading, and even for a little fussing at home, even if you are on a tightish budget.  (Never took French in school, but can puzzle out quite a bit as a result of lots of fun reading for years.)

[2manyKidzzz]

So, J&J are the onlly TLC in that top 50? I am shocked. And the only HGTV show there was Good Bones. So I am double shocked. But some of my fav HGTV shows are in repetitive mode. 

So, yes, maybe another season. But not going to Bear Camp, because those people got trashed at least online for that. 

[ClaraOswin]

Okay...my kid decided to nap longer. So now I'm watching the second half...

So they went to Branson for a few days and they hung out in the cabin, went to an observation tower, and to dinner. Is that it? I mean, I can understand a weekend away with a significant other and staying in the cabin most of the time. But not for a girls weekend.

"You're getting too big for your pants. Gonna have to shake you in like a pillowcase." Okay, that made me smile for some reason.

"None of us have a guy here to dress up for." Yet another comment that just makes me sad and says a lot to me.

Blind dates with the Duggars. I'd enjoy watching that. It would be super cringe worthy but entertaining.

I like that Joy said that when she was 12 they started wearing "somewhat normal" clothes. At least they know their prairie dresses were weird.

Meredith in the earrings and shoes and giant bow. Blech. So not my cup of tea. Good thing I only have a son.

They all look so uncomfortable sitting around the table together not having much to talk about while waiting for their food. Where are these deep meaningful conversations they are talking about?

Babies babies babies. Blah blah blah. Ben wants 15 sons? Yeah...sure. I am going to fall asleep during this whole dinner scene. Wow...it's really dragging on. They just keep repeating themselves. What is the point of this?

I can't wait for Ben's dorky hat next week.

....Now I have to go back to page 9 of this thread and get reading!

[patsymae]

"You are ruining the meal of potentially 50-100 people because you are not taking responsibility for your child.  Selfish.
 

 

To continue beating the horse, let me add that when you allow special snowflakes to believe that other people, especially adults, have to cater to them, you aren't doing the kids any favors. Even if you actually don't care about other people, they do.
I was nanny for  3 grandchildren from birth until last year when they all were in school full-time. We had a blast doing all sorts of fun things almost every day (lived in a place with a lot to do that was mostly free; lucky us) and only rarely did I have to stop the fun and bring everybody home. As said, just as with their father, they mostly decided going out and having fun was preferable to --not.
Our area was (still is, I'm just not there) ethically diverse. I can tell you that from indoor play spaces to even Mickey D jungle gyms, the immigrant parents, regardless of where they were from (Europe, Asia, Africa) looked on in wonder when American children were allowed to scream, yell, throw tantrums etc. while their parents not only didn't correct them but beamed at their special snowflakes and became very upset if someone suggested, as the people who worked in restaurants have said, that perhaps they should intervene.
WTF indeed. 

If your early lesson in life is that when you go out in public you "scream if you scream," regardless of the effect on other people, it might come back later to bite you in the butt.

Just sayi'

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

A few things on my mind. I really think Counting On is going to get a second season. TLC is going to beat this horse to death...or chase a cow to it.

As for children in restaurants, once my brother and I were old enough, my parents decided that every Friday night we would eat out as a family, and the choice of restaurant would rotate every week from family member to family member. There were only four of us. When my parents first started this, I don't think they anticipated that all my brother and I would choose would be McDonald's and Pizza Hut. Our tastes became more refined as we got older.

After dinner, we would go to the local video store and rent a movie. Ahhhhhh VHS tapes. Ahhhhhh the 90s.

[patsymae]

"As for not asking what someone does for their job, heck yes I want to know!"

 

Admit I didn't see episode and relying on recap (bless Buzzard). In some other contexts, when you first meet a person asking what they do can be seen as a "what is your social-status" thing. But with the Duggars, "courtship" means that the first time you even talk to someone you are interrogating them about marriage. Unlike even the Bateses, they don't even allow "dating with a purpose," but just, here's the guy, you can email him with your parents and siblings monitoring it, and if you are continued to communicate, it is with the express idea that your "courtship" is just one step on the road to marriage.

 

If you're meeting someone for the first time and just going to coffee or a drink or whatever, like normal people do, maybe the first question shouldn't be "what do you do for a living?" But if you are not allowed to interact with people of the opposite sex as acquaintances/friends/colleagues, and your only interactions are to "court" with a view toward marriage, then yeah, it's really odd to not care what the person does for  a living. As others have said, apparently the only acceptable answer in Duggarworld is "nothing, really."

[ClaraOswin]

18 hours ago, RabbitKM said:

Pork chops or lamb?  Something meaty that came on a long thin bone.  I didnt know they don't eat pork.

And as for internet, don't they have some sort of app on their phone, I forget what it's called, where it blocks everything basically.  So they probably set it to allow facetime, but not safari.

I hadn't heard they don't pork. I know they've mentioned hot dogs before and I have a hard time believing they go out of their way to find all beef ones.

8 hours ago, SassyPants said:

<snip>Did she really sleep in that car seat for the entire duration of the dinner? Again, Spurge was silent. I wonder if they edit out any and all baby behaviors? If not, these are seemingly among the easiest, most complacent and compliant babies, ever.

<snip>

 

I wondered if the babies were good the entire meal too. My kid was a sceamer so I can't even imagine having such a "laid back" baby.

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

This person had the same question I did about "red hat" last night.  I'm 99.999999999999% sure it is NOT Joy sucking face with him.  At first I thought it was Jill but 1) Thats not Derick 2) That baby is not Izzy and 3) Jill is in Sintral Amerika.

So... who are these people?

Looks like Jessa and Ben to me.

3 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

If children are screaming, they should be removed. No one wants to hear screaming. 

I agree! I know people who think we're weird for not taking our son to restaurants all the time. Their thinking is - doing it from a young age, and do it often...and they'll get used to it. Um, not thanks. I am not going to let my baby/toddler throw a fit in a restaurant as a "lesson." That's not fair to anyone.

We've gone out a few times with him. But only to places like Panera because it's quick and we could easily get our food to go. Or maybe a family-type place. But even then...if he were to freak out for more than a minute or two, we'd be taking him out of the restaurant.

I think people need to know their child's limits. And have an exit plan if things go downhill. Don't torture everyone else.

[coffeefilter]

2 hours ago, patsymae said:

Couldn't disagree more. If they scream, take them home. The rest of us would like to enjoy ourselves and not have our meals ruined and most restaurant owners don't deserve to have their businesses ruined because same people without screaming children can't enjoy a meal. My kids learned if you want to go out in public and do fun things you have to behave and be considerate of other people. Most of the tome they opted to behave. If not, we went home.

I agree somewhat with what you're saying, but I try not to judge if I see any kids acting up at a restaurant. They may have some diagnosis that is keeping them from being able to "behave". Kids with ADHD/ADD/Autism should still be able to go to a restaurant, IMO. Same for adults with CP for example, sometimes they have spasms or can shout and yell, and Ijust ignore that. I feel they have the same right to be at a fancy restaurant as I do, and they can't help the way they're acting. Not all kids have a diagnosis though, of course.

My 3 year old is a bit hyperactive and I can't really take him to fancy restaurants yet. We've been out for dinner at Pizza hut and local pizzerias and sometimes he sits quietly and eats, sometimes he wants to leave or sit on the floor. He doesn't scream and shout that often though, and if he does, I tell him that we can't stay if he's being very loud. But if he wants to sit on the floor for a while, I let him. He has no hearing on one ear and poor hearing on the other, which he is getting surgery for, but his language is quite delayed and it creates a lot of frustration for him so I pick my fights.

Sorry for the essay, I do agree with you bottom line (screaming kids are a pain in the ass) but its not always because of how adept the parents are.

[tcach]

Quote

And cookbooks are readily available at libraries for inspirational reading, and even for a little fussing at home, even if you are on a tightish budget.

That's how you and I may think. But the average leghumper wouldn't be aspiring to such ideas. If it wasn't taught in their (super godly family of origin) it may be the devil's own work.

[Scottie]

I pretty much agree with all that's been said so far.

I honestly cannot believe how boring this show is, but at the same time its so infuriating. Regarding this episode in particular, all of the marriage advice and encouraging Jana, Jinger, and Joy to get married and have babies looks bad It really showcases how little these women have been given in their lives, they seem to have nothing to talk about or look forward to other than their future occupation as broodmare.  I can't imagine living in a world where all I have to look forward to is marriage and an endless stream of 'precious blessings'.  

Also, Michelle in that green tent *gag*. 

This is my first post on the board, I've been lurking for a long time and I hesitated joining because most I'm not adding much to the conversation by saying "I totally agree!" all the time, but here I am anyway

[choralcrusader8613]

1 hour ago, ClaraOswin said:

I hadn't heard they don't pork. I know they've mentioned hot dogs before and I have a hard time believing they go out of their way to find all beef ones.

They probably don't go out of their way about it, but Gothard has eating pork as a no-no. I'm also pretty sure Michelle mentioned it in one or two of the earlier seasons.

Quote

To illustrate this difference, let’s consider Gothard’s teaching on pork. Gothard has often taught that Christians should keep the Mosaic Law (or at least certain portions of it that he has selected). One example of this is Gothard’s teaching that Christians shouldn’t eat pork. Gothard would refer to such a lifestyle choice as a “higher standard,” when in reality, this “higher standard” was abrogated by the New Covenant (Acts 10:9-16; Colossians 2:16-17). Believers are under the New Covenant, not the law, so any decision to follow the law is a matter of personal choice. Stating that all Christians must follow one man’s preference on certain aspects of the law is legalism. Our focus is to be on Christ, not man-made standards.

From http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/01/a-response-to-bill-gothard/

ETA: The girls also mention in their book that they "choose to avoid pork", but the context is such that one wouldn't necessarily connect it with religious obligations.

[JesSky03]

5 hours ago, Buzzard said:

This person had the same question I did about "red hat" last night.  I'm 99.999999999999% sure it is NOT Joy sucking face with him.  At first I thought it was Jill but 1) Thats not Derick 2) That baby is not Izzy and 3) Jill is in Sintral Amerika.

So... who are these people?

99% sure that is Ben.

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, Scottie said:

I pretty much agree with all that's been said so far.

I honestly cannot believe how boring this show is, but at the same time its so infuriating. Regarding this episode in particular, all of the marriage advice and encouraging Jana, Jinger, and Joy to get married and have babies looks bad It really showcases how little these women have been given in their lives, they seem to have nothing to talk about or look forward to other than their future occupation as broodmare.  I can't imagine living in a world where all I have to look forward to is marriage and an endless stream of 'precious blessings'.  

Also, Michelle in that green tent *gag*. 

This is my first post on the board, I've been lurking for a long time and I hesitated joining because most I'm not adding much to the conversation by saying "I totally agree!" all the time, but here I am anyway

Welcome!

[Gobsmacked]

13 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

99% sure that is Ben.

Yep. I would bet on my daily jellybean that the guy and gal snogging are Ben and Jessa.

[Carol]

Everything about this episode screams, "Look!  We're real people!  We wear heels!  We joke about dating!  We're unaccompanied by men!  We take vacations!  We skype!  We go to fancy restaurants by ourselves!  We order interesting food!  We have girl nights!  We have pedicures and manicures!

What's missing?  In a regular girl's weekend, someone brings up the time they got into their parents liquor cabinet, smoked their parents cigarettes, took their parents car, had dorky dates, stole someone's boyfriend, hated/loved their prom dress, compared the first time they had sex and who with, discussed who they had a crush on in high school, first time they had their period, what they hate/love about their job, what their hobbies are, where they've lived or want to live, their first marriage...and on and on and on.

When all you can talk about in these very stilted conversations is when you're going to get married and how many children you'll have, it sounds pretty defeating to the outside world.

Yeah, you wore heels.  Rock some Louboutins and people might think something is changing.

[Dandruff]

5 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

Italian food = pizza and from a jar spaghetti sauce or frozen lasagna and frozen garlic bread.

Don't forget Chef Boy-ar-dee.  And I believe it's "Eye-talian" in Duggar dialect.

If TLC can arrange an alien landing in the treehouse, I could see some hope for a second season.  Of course they'd need to keep JD and the rifles away.  There might even be hope for a courtship, assuming the ETs are willing to accept Jesus and hang around Tontitown for filming.

[Scottie]

2 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

Don't forget Chef Boy-ar-dee.  And I believe it's "Eye-talian" in Duggar dialect.

Oh yeah, nothing like this traditional Italian cuisine that comes in a can - though it would probably be off brand.

[SportsgalAnnie]

10 hours ago, nst said:

am I the only when going to a new restaurant google their menu ?

nope, I like knowing ahead of time what I want 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, Carol said:

Everything about this episode screams, "Look!  We're real people!  We wear heels!  We joke about dating!  We're unaccompanied by men!  We take vacations!  We skype!  We go to fancy restaurants by ourselves!  We order interesting food!  We have girl nights!  We have pedicures and manicures!

What's missing?  In a regular girl's weekend, someone brings up the time they got into their parents liquor cabinet, smoked their parents cigarettes, took their parents car, had dorky dates, stole someone's boyfriend, hated/loved their prom dress, compared the first time they had sex and who with, discussed who they had a crush on in high school, first time they had their period, what they hate/love about their job, what their hobbies are, where they've lived or want to live, their first marriage...and on and on and on.

When all you can talk about in these very stilted conversations is when you're going to get married and how many children you'll have, it sounds pretty defeating to the outside world.

Well, to be (ugh) "fair," most girl's weekends aren't filmed and broadcast to several thousand people, including the parents. I didn't grow up on TV, but I had religious parents. There are things I just don't say if there is even a miniscule chance that it could ever get back to them. 

I don't doubt they are being fed a story line from TLC and coached to enunciate their words. Lots of families have strange dialects and weird inside jokes that show up, but TLC probably wants them to appeal to a large demographic. Inside jokes, words that mean something else to the Duggars only, dialects that let us know they've only talked to each other for 20 years - TLC doesn't want that right now. 

[Analytica49]

In thinking about the "Counting On" series, I come to realize that it's all about normalization of the Duggars.

Here's a family that elevates procreation above almost every human activity--maybe other than praying. It's a family in which the parents aggressively limit their daughters' freedom, sexuality, and personal development. It's a family where genuine education is minimal. It's a family whose history includes sexual assault on his sisters by the oldest boy, who grows up to work for a conservative "pro-family" organization while violating many of the norms of his religion behind his wife's back. It's a family whose perspective on anyone who is not heterosexual and gender-conforming is reactionary and hateful.

TLC can no longer pretend that this version (the real one) of the Duggars is ethical or worth emulating. So TLC--clearly with the connivance of the Duggars themselves--seeks to recast their image to make it more "normal." So we get lots of scenes of cute babies, romantic courtships and spouses, and bonding sisters. We get talking heads in which each Duggar kidult represses the religious fanaticism that makes them what they are, and pretends to be just an ordinary guy or girl.

There are two main problems with this normalization of the Duggars:

1) It is utterly false. It represses so much of the truth about the Duggars that it is the equivalent of outright lies.

2) It removes virtually everything that could possibly be of interest to a reasonably wide range of viewers. How many people really want to watch boring children and boring kidults going about their boring lives, and talking, even more boringly, about what little future they have?

So the process of normalizing the Duggars, which was intended to save the show, is a resounding failure all round.

 

[patsymae]

2 hours ago, coffeefilter said:

I agree somewhat with what you're saying, but I try not to judge if I see any kids acting up at a restaurant. They may have some diagnosis that is keeping them from being able to "behave". Kids with ADHD/ADD/Autism should still be able to go to a restaurant, IMO. Same for adults with CP for example, sometimes they have spasms or can shout and yell, and Ijust ignore that. I feel they have the same right to be at a fancy restaurant as I do, and they can't help the way they're acting. Not all kids have a diagnosis though, of course.

My 3 year old is a bit hyperactive and I can't really take him to fancy restaurants yet. We've been out for dinner at Pizza hut and local pizzerias and sometimes he sits quietly and eats, sometimes he wants to leave or sit on the floor. He doesn't scream and shout that often though, and if he does, I tell him that we can't stay if he's being very loud. But if he wants to sit on the floor for a while, I let him. He has no hearing on one ear and poor hearing on the other, which he is getting surgery for, but his language is quite delayed and it creates a lot of frustration for him so I pick my fights.

Sorry for the essay, I do agree with you bottom line (screaming kids are a pain in the ass) but its not always because of how adept the parents are.

My 3 year old is a bit hyperactive and I can't really take him to fancy restaurants yet. We've been out for dinner at Pizza hut and local pizzerias and sometimes he sits quietly and eats, sometimes he wants to leave or sit on the floor. He doesn't scream and shout that often though, and if he does, I tell him that we can't stay if he's being very loud. But if he wants to sit on the floor for a while, I let him. He has no hearing on one ear and poor hearing on the other, which he is getting surgery for, but his language is quite delayed and it creates a lot of frustration for him so I pick my fights."

So if it's Pizza Hut, and not a "fancy" restaurant, its okay for him to sit on the floor if thats make him not shout? What about the other people in the place who may not want to have to walk around some special snowflake who is sitting on the floor for a while? What about servers who have to work very hard to serve other customers while negotiating your child on the floor? Sorry about his hearing problem, but his hearing problem and your frustration with it is no way making it okay to act that way in a restaurant. Can't take hime to "fancy" restaurants? Don't take him to "regular" restaurants.

[Scottie]

12 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

There are two main problems with this normalization of the Duggars:

1) It is utterly false. It represses so much of the truth about the Duggars that it is the equivalent of outright lies.

2) It removes virtually everything that could possibly be of interest to a reasonably wide range of viewers. How many people really want to watch boring children and boring kidults going about their boring lives, and talking, even more boringly, about what little future they have?

So the process of normalizing the Duggars, which was intended to save the show, is a resounding failure all round

I totally agree with this, it makes the show utterly boring and patently obvious that they're manufacturing story lines for the show. In the original specials and in the 19KAC episodes the girls were generally portrayed as competent home makers (even if tater-tot caserole and canned green beans are less than savoury) now we have grown women who are unable to make mashed potatoes. Its insulting to the audience, and people can see through it. 

 

[patsymae]

Got to admit I'm flummoxed. Why is "chasing cows" a thing? Is that like the terrify-cat fun thing they do, or something else? Jana said it's not the first time they chased cows. Why? What kind of people stop what they are doing to go chase cows? Am I missing something here?