Bates Family Part 9

[PennySycamore]

@Dandruff, If the medication that Erin has to take is Lovenox, it's not a concern during breastfeeding.  It's very high molecular weight and so would be unlikely to pass into breastmilk.  If she has to take injections due to the Lovenox being destroyed in the GI tract or not being absorbed orally, then there's that as well.  There really isn't a concern about being able to nutritionally sustain a fetus and a nursing infant.  Women do it all the time.  

[GreenTea]

2 hours ago, MissBitters said:

I am not defending Erin's pregnancy. I just think there is a strong possibility it was unplanned.

It could have been unexpected, but not unplanned. They had sex... without condoms or birth control pills. Sex creates babies. (Not all the time, but the possibility is always there.) They knew what they were doing. They made that choice. 

In my opinion they should have waited at least one year, so Erin's body could heal. But that Qiverfull brainwashing made it all in the grand plan. They ignore the choices they make that affect life. I hope everything goes well for her and her child is healthy.  

[Fundie Bunny]

8 hours ago, habert said:

Aw man, just in time to distract from the Lawson-Scalia mess 

What has that redneck said Now?  I haven'y been following lately

I know that regarding Erin everything has been said, but I am sure that them saying that they are shocked and that it is a suprime mean one of two things 1. They really are that stupid and kept having sex and trusting god or 2. They are trying to save their asses to the public opinion.

I was rooting for them. I really was

[season of life]

11 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

What has that redneck said Now?  I haven'y been following lately

I know that regarding Erin everything has been said, but I am sure that them saying that they are shocked and that it is a suprime mean one of two things 1. They really are that stupid and kept having sex and trusting god or 2. They are trying to save their asses to the public opinion.

I was rooting for them. I really was

Lawson tweeted a photo that questioned the circumstances in which Scalia died (no security) and why there won't be an autopsy for him. This implies he thinks that Scalia was assassinated or something like that, ignoring the fact the dude was hella old and overweight and his family doesn't want an autopsy done. 

[Fundie Bunny]

15 minutes ago, season of life said:

Lawson tweeted a photo that questioned the circumstances in which Scalia died (no security) and why there won't be an autopsy for him. This implies he thinks that Scalia was assassinated or something like that, ignoring the fact the dude was hella old and overweight and his family doesn't want an autopsy done. 

Oh god. Oh god. I thought he just had said something about obama and how he was going to ruin everything now, but this trumps every thought in my head (see what i did there )

And as far as i know, there are plenty of reasons for what a 79-year-old man might die, and murder is not one of the most common causes

[AliceInFundyland]

10 hours ago, vienna said:

My overall Impression of them from reading Kelly´s (not longer existing) Blog and watching the Show. I am not saying they are intellectuals, just not as dumb as the duggar. From a menatal point of view they seem waaay healither to me in the was they act with each other. They share the same believes but seem to be able to think for themselves and e.g. adapt their believe when Erin is having serious medical conditions with pregnany. The also stood up agains Gothars teaching against Adoption (since Kelly has an adopted sister). Erine saied the Family acted "shocked" when they announced the pregancy witch seem also like a healthy reaction given the circumstances. While the Duggar Kids seem to me like victims of a dictator, the Bates are religious but healthy. They make sure the courting couples can talk alone with each other (of course beeing watch but from a distance) and I am not saying it all good, just to me way better than the Duggar. The Duggars are fundies and have mentalpProblems and a lot of additional things to dislike, the Bates are just fundies, but in general quite nice.

Respectfully, you need to do some more reading on the Bates. They may be more personable than the Duggars, but "just" fundies? No. Gil Bates is on the IBLP board, serving to cover up and clean up the scandal left behind by Mr. Gothard. The elder daughters have all married sons of other influential persons. 

Yeesh. Babies. I hope this works out for them too... Then I hope some doctor tells them she flat out can't have anymore or she has to have her tubes tied. Because I do think they they are loving parents to Carson, and loving to each other. They could have a good life. Science needs to cut God off at the pass.

[Peas n carrots]

Lawson tweeted a photo that questioned the circumstances in which Scalia died (no security) and why there won't be an autopsy for him. This implies he thinks that Scalia was assassinated or something like that, ignoring the fact the dude was hella old and overweight and his family doesn't want an autopsy done. 

Oh god. Oh god. I thought he just had said something about obama and how he was going to ruin everything now, but this trumps every thought in my head (see what i did there )

And as far as i know, there are plenty of reasons for what a 79-year-old man might die, and murder is not one of the most common causes

Lawson seems to have never heard of Occam's Razor.

[crazysnark]

Why are we assuming Erin breast feeds? I don't think any of the Bates babies have been nursed including Kelly. I know Kelly did in the hospital but after that the baby has a bottle of formula. Allie, Bradley and Carson have only been shown eating bottles that are formula. I think this is why Kelly got pregnant 4-6 months PP every time. Michelle actually had a bigger space, sometimes up to 10 months because she did nurse. 

[Front Hugging Fiend]

I agree with the idea that UP had no clue - now I don't know how the US seasons work but if the baby is due in the summer, is it possible that Erin and Chad just got the 2nd trimester all-clear from the doctor? If so, it would make sense that they would immediately share the news without much warning, particularly given their difficulty conceiving a viable pregnancy in the past. 

While I'm worried for Erin's health, I will say that given her difficulty conceiving in the past, there's every chance that NFP seemed like a completely suitable option. You know - "if we have sex today, it's okay because i'm not ovulating, and even if I was I probably wouldn't fall pregnant immediately because of xyz". So I believe that it was a total surprise, and watching that video made me feel like they're both equal parts excited and scared. Something in the eyes, particularly when Chad asked for prayers.

51 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Why are we assuming Erin breast feeds? I don't think any of the Bates babies have been nursed including Kelly. I know Kelly did in the hospital but after that the baby has a bottle of formula. Allie, Bradley and Carson have only been shown eating bottles that are formula. I think this is why Kelly got pregnant 4-6 months PP every time. Michelle actually had a bigger space, sometimes up to 10 months because she did nurse. 

^ I could be wrong but I remember Kelly and Michelle briefly discussing breastfeeding in a 19KAC episode - even earlier, possibly 17KAC? It's been a while and my memory is vague, but I do remember that. I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly just found it easier to pump and use bottles so she could multitask or - most likely - have one of her older kids feed the younger ones.

[nokidsmom]

Not surprised to hear of this news.   The timing after having Carson is not unusual to me and tbh, I didn't think Erin and Chad would want him to be an only child.   However, there's plenty of risks that he might be an only child anyway.  I hope all goes well.   This may have been totally unplanned, but if it wasn't, I hope it was done with full understanding of the risks involved.   Even if Chad and Erin know that they have to limit their family and are following medical advice, they still might want to try to have a few more kids. 

No way of knowing this, but I sincerely hope that Erin is not the type of fundie who is hell bent on risking her life / health in order to have a bunch of kids.   Right now I believe it's possible that she's not doing this.  Simply because she got pregnant again within a year of having Carson doesn't mean she's ignoring doctors advice, taking precautions, etc.   And accidents do happen

[Mrs Ms]

50 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Why are we assuming Erin breast feeds? I don't think any of the Bates babies have been nursed including Kelly. I know Kelly did in the hospital but after that the baby has a bottle of formula. Allie, Bradley and Carson have only been shown eating bottles that are formula. I think this is why Kelly got pregnant 4-6 months PP every time. Michelle actually had a bigger space, sometimes up to 10 months because she did nurse. 

Why do people believe Michelle when she says she nurses for 6 months and then the babies self wean and she gets pregnant or that she gets pregnant and then the babies self wean because the milk tastes off? 
I don't get why this one thing seems to be totally believed. Maybe it is because I had friends that only admitted to close friends that they stopped nursing early to try get pregnant again, but told everyone else they were still nursing that I always took that to be total bullshit from her.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Peas n carrots said:

Oh god. Oh god. I thought he just had said something about obama and how he was going to ruin everything now, but this trumps every thought in my head (see what i did there )

And as far as i know, there are plenty of reasons for what a 79-year-old man might die, and murder is not one of the most common causes

Lawson seems to have never heard of Occam's Razor.

The whole conspiracy thing about Scalia's death is just nuts.   He was 79 years old with health problems.    Health problems typical for an elderly person which he was.    It's amazing wthin hours of his death, the politics begins and once the circumstances of his death came out, immediately people push the idea of some murder conspiracy instead of shutting up and letting his family grieve without all this nonsense.

I didn't agree with a lot of his opinions and frankly, the country is better off without him on the bench (though I wish he had retired instead) but this has to be making a tough time even tougher for his family and friends.

[19 cats and counting]

5 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I didn't agree with a lot of his opinions and frankly, the country is better off without him on the bench (though I wish he had retired instead) but this has to be making a tough time even tougher for his family and friends.

He would not have retired (willingly) with Obama (or any other Democrat) in office.  If Romney was elected, he would have retired.

[elliha]

21 minutes ago, Mrs Ms said:

Why do people believe Michelle when she says she nurses for 6 months and then the babies self wean and she gets pregnant or that she gets pregnant and then the babies self wean because the milk tastes off? 
I don't get why this one thing seems to be totally believed. Maybe it is because I had friends that only admitted to close friends that they stopped nursing early to try get pregnant again, but told everyone else they were still nursing that I always took that to be total bullshit from her.

Well, self-weaning at 6 months is very rare but when it happens it is almost always because of a new pregnancy. The milk often dries up sometime between 10-20 weeks and for such a young child supplementation is necessary but some children will continue to dry-nurse if they are allowed to. Older children are more likely to dry-nurse because they mainly nurse for comfort and not for comfort and food. Nursing aversion on the other hand can come around 6 months and this can be misunderstood as wanting to wean but for a young child this is not likely. If a child is given heaps of food they can also reject breastfeeding. I think that Michelle have weaned some of her children but some might have stopped because of pregnancy as she says. 

[twinmama]

12 hours ago, kjmackin said:

Well there goes my hope that Erin might have took more precautions. I guess I thought that Jill would have been announcing #2 before Erin but I wonder if this means that Jill might actually understand what at risk with getting pregnant again.

I doubt that, but who knows. At least Erin mentioned understanding her risks after what she went through and talked about considering the doctor's advice. Jill seems to act like everything went perfect and she's ready to go again. But with whatever is going on with Derrick and being out of the country with an infant and not speaking the language, maybe Jill is a little stressed and not conceiving as easily.

[nokidsmom]

4 minutes ago, 19 cats and counting said:

He would not have retired (willingly) with Obama (or any other Democrat) in office.  If Romney was elected, he would have retired.

I wasn't sure he would have retired at all until he had to, which in a sense, is what happened.  Though agree that with a Democrat in the White House, he wouldn't voluntarily do it.

[QuiverDance]

How is Erin's "life at stake?"  Because of the clotting disorder, placental abruption risk, or both?  I realize she has medical problems, but she is aware of them, and they can be medically managed, so I don't understand the hand-wringing.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

[twinmama]

1 hour ago, Front Hugging Fiend said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Kelly just found it easier to pump and use bottles so she could multitask or - most likely - have one of her older kids feed the younger ones.

As someone who pumped and bottle fed (for a very short time), it would be way faster and easier to just nurse the kid. If you pump, you have to sit there and be hooked up for like 20+ minutes. If you nurse, you can walk around and do stuff while nursing. I gave up pumping because I could not care for two infants by myself and be attached to a pump at the same time (and because I made like an ounce at a time, and it just wasn't worth it!).

[HRM1216]

4 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

How is Erin's "life at stake?"  Because of the clotting disorder, placental abruption risk, or both?  I realize she has medical problems, but she is aware of them, and they can be medically managed, so I don't understand the hand-wringing.  Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

I think it's because it's likely to happen again and that is life-threatening to both mother and baby. Excessive bleeding, not enough oxygen for baby, etc. I'm not well-versed but that's the gist I got from everything I've read. 

[QuiverDance]

There is definitely an increased risk of subsequent abruption, but I'm sure she will be closely monitored.  They'll probably induce early, which is not ideal for the baby, but (assuming an abruption does not occur before the baby is viable) they will likely survive with treatment.  I don't understand her choice, but I am sure she knows the risks.  It's disturbing, but not at all surprising.  

[Pretzel]

Erin has NO TROUBLE CONCEIVING. She has trouble staying pregnant. She must have known that she could easily become pregnant ever since she got pregnant three times in less than a year. Even after suffering a heavy miscarriage that ended in a D&C she got pregnant fairly quickly. Anyone who actually believes this baby came as a surprise to them fools themselves. 

I'm with the person who said the only surprise is people's surprise here. Those fundies rarely ever change and no inch of a shorter hemline, no placental abruption and no pair of jeans will change that. 

[QuiverDance]

5 minutes ago, twinmama said:

As someone who pumped and bottle fed (for a very short time), it would be way faster and easier to just nurse the kid. If you pump, you have to sit there and be hooked up for like 20+ minutes. If you nurse, you can walk around and do stuff while nursing. I gave up pumping because I could not care for two infants by myself and be attached to a pump at the same time (and because I made like an ounce at a time, and it just wasn't worth it!).

Totally agree.  I hated pumping sooooo much.  It was cumbersome (even with one of the newer "mobile" pumps that run on battery power... the older clunkier kind was the worrrrrst), cleanup and maintenance of the pumping gear was time consuming, and it took up a lot of time.  

[MissBitters]

1 hour ago, Front Hugging Fiend said:

While I'm worried for Erin's health, I will say that given her difficulty conceiving in the past, there's every chance that NFP seemed like a completely suitable option. You know - "if we have sex today, it's okay because i'm not ovulating, and even if I was I probably wouldn't fall pregnant immediately because of xyz". So I believe that it was a total surprise, and watching that video made me feel like they're both equal parts excited and scared. Something in the eyes, particularly when Chad asked for prayers.

This was my exact thoughts while watching the video. It's understandable why everyone is assuming it was a deliberate choice, but there is a very good chance it was a miscalculation Of course they are going to act excited about it. They are programmed to think every child is a gift from god no matter the consequences. It doesn't mean they are without fear though. They seemed to comprehend the risks during Erin's previous pregnancy and childbirth. I would have mixed feelings too.

As for Erin's safety, she is going to be closely monitored, and I wouldn't be surprised if she has a planned c-section or induced early to minimize the risks. I hope this will ensure a healthy mama and baby.

[crazysnark]

The reason we can believe Michelle nurses for a long time is because she is shown nursing on camera 24/7. What probably happens is when the baby isnt' nursing as often as it did when they were younger, her cycles come back. After the cycle comes back she gets pregnant and the baby self weans because there is a change in milk. Most babies do this. This even happened with Mackynzie. There was an episode when Anna was frustrated because Mackynzie wouldnt nurse when she got pregnant.Anyways, I just don't see any proof that Erin was ever nursing, and was wondering why everyone was so certain she was. 

[PennySycamore]

I never found it believable when J'chelle said that her babies self-weaned early on when she became pregnant again.  The taste of breastmilk does change in pregnancy, but much later on when it begins to revert to colostrum.  What does happen to many moms is that their nipples become excruciatingly sore and the typical remedies for sore nipples don't seem to help  much.  (Really careful positioning may help, but a wiggly toddler can put the kibosh on efforts at good positioning.)  Some moms also find that nursing during pregnancy makes them antsy and unsettled.   The Duggar babies didn't self-wean; they were weaned at the intervention of "mother".