Creation SuperCamp SuperSnark Recap

[prayawaythefundie]

Wow, that was really hard for me to read because it felt like they are putting words in my mouth, I teach evolution to students aged 10 to 20 and contratry to these guys' beliefs I DO NOT teach any of the following:

That the appendix is useless. BUT for many mammals it has lost its original function and assumed a new one.

That evolution is an upward march and makes populations improve. INSTEAD evolution does not have a direction. That is really evolution 101 and the last big group of people to get this wrong on purpose were nazis. Not good company for those creationists.

That an individual with a higher level of fintess is more likely to survive. (BUT it will have more reproductional success which again does not just mean popping out more offspring but having more offspring that will be able to have more successful offsspring themselves which does include but cannot be reduced to surviving long enough to make babies. What it means to be fit does of course change with time and location because the environment changes with time and location. On top of that there are ecological niches.)

That natural selection "knows" or works with the mutation. It does of course work with the trait BUT there is a correlation between genes and traits, so genes are selected indireclty.

 

There are more but those really hurt my eyes upon reading. Sorry for the rant. Feel free to just ignore.

[CyborgKin]

@prayawaythefundie if you could distill one or more of those into a short question,  I could slip them into the question box. 

 

About evolution not having a direction,  I suppose they mean less information vs more information. Not direction as in a specific target,  but towards having new features vs messing up and removing existing features. 

 

About to start more singing.

[prayawaythefundie]

Thanks for clarifying the direction of evolution statement. It's false nonetheless because the wheat these people eat everyday is an example of an organism that gained genetic information compared to its ancestors. In this case it was humans breeding today's wheat from older species of Poaceae and with that making them polyploid but it can happen naturally as well.

The thing with questions on this is, I would really like to ask one but I fear it would come off as spiteful (and they sure would not answer that seriously) or it would be something like "How do you explain ...?" and their answer would be "god, the creator" which is not falsifiable. While modern creationists spend so much time and energy on trying to falsify evolution (which - if done correctly -  is fair because that is what scientific theories always must sustain), evolutionary scientists don't try to falsify the existence of god (well, they shouldn't, some unfornately do - I'm looking at you Dawkins).

There is no religious knowledge from a scientific one just like there is no scientific knowledge from a religious one. Science should be looking for explanations for what is being observed, they got that right. Many theists feel that evolution is an attack on them because it makes them fear it would despense with the need for their god as a whole if there was an explanation for life that does not need a creator to work. For me, personally,  god is unnecessary as a whole but that is a religious/philisophical view, not a scientific one and therefore one more thing I do not teach.

If anyone has ideas for a good question, feel free to use any information I gave.

[CyborgKin]

Guitar player birthday. 
Won't ask him to lead us in Happy Birthday,  that would be self refence.  (laughter) 

(The guitar player's daughter is kinda cute.) 

 

Jonathan Sarfati: REFUTING THE 'NEW ATHEISTS' - Despite their assertive confidence, their arguments are vulnerable

Physical chemist,  chessmaster,  apologist,  logician,  author,  speaker. 

Always shows upside down map to Americans. (but has American wife) 
Plug for recent book myth busting 
Ethnically Jewish so can tell Jewish jokes and get away with it. 
Book about why Jesus had to come when he did. 

Meaning of apologetics 
Jesus commandment #1 you need to use your mind. 

People don't even ask or attack the question of God's existence.  It's seen as 'not even wrong'  -  nonsensical to ask or discuss. 

The four horsemen of atheopathy 

Jim Jones. 
Flavor aid,  not koolaid 

Atheists are embarrassed by Dawkins' God Delusion book

Response to Greatest Show on Earth book
Article responding to Christopher Hitchens' flawed arguments 
Article responding to Lawrence Krauss.  
Krauss admits to being an anti theist. 

Kalam Cosmological Argument (Bar over the second a,  my keyboard won't sorry) 
Everything that had a beginning had a cause 
The universe had a beginning 
Thermodynamics: the universe could not have existed forever. 
Therefore the universe had to have a cause. 
Even David Hume believed nothing can appear without a cause. 

Avoiding pitfalls 
Wrong: you can't know anything without God 
Right: Biblical propositions provide the basis for knowledge 
Natural selection doesn't select for knowing truth.  (I missed some of this point) 
Atheists must hijack the biblical worldview 

Avoid extremes.  Evidentialist roller coaster of following latest fad vs. evidence doesn't matter 
Use science ministerial,  not magisterially 

Blaming something on sin doesn't explain anything.  It's like Blaming gravity for a plane crash.  Gravity and sin are universal and don't explain anything. 

Self defeating statements 
There is no truth.  Is that true? 
You can't know anything for certain 
We should only accept scientifically testable claims. 
Christians should not be judgemental and say some behaviours are wrong 
You shouldn't say "trinity",  only use words that are in the Bible.  (Bible is not in the Bible) 

How can rationality evolve? 
How can one accident allow us to be able to currently understand all the other accidents?  -  cs Lewis quote. 

Elimative materialism -  consistent atheism 
Why do we trust anyone's brain? 

Yay that John Cleese video about scientists finding the God gene!  (I love that video) 

Presuppositions required for operational science:
universe is real 
Universe is orderly 
Man may investigate universe 
Universe is rational 
Honesty in reporting 

William Provine quote (audio)  ending in no free will for humans 
Jaron Lanier quote,  Dawkins quote. 
But Dawkins says God is evil when his worldview doesn't contain a concept of evil 

But it is wrong to say we can't be good without belief in God. 
But without existence of God, ideas of good and evil are ephemeral. 

Murder is illegal because it is wrong,  not wrong because it is illegal. 
Slavery was wrong when it was legal. 
Killing Jews was wrong when it was legal 
With God,  morality is not arbitrary 
Creation.com/ethics 

Basil Fawlty clip
A bit blasphemous but still funny 
Basil attacks his car 

Richard Dawkins comments.  We laugh at this. 
It's logical to punish humans not cars 
Blame and responsibility are a useful fiction,  Dawkins says. 

Creation.com/badchurch 
Atrocities inconsistent with Jesus teaching 
Atrocities committed in the name of atheism are not inconsistent with their worldview 
Crusades were a belated response to centuries of Islamofascist aggression that look over Christian lands at swordpoint
Bad stuff happened but it was a just war. 
The Islamic aggression was consistent with Muhammad's teaching. 

Inquisition was terrible but relatively small compared to
Megademicide 
Holodomor -  Ukrainians starved under Stalin. Gave Hitler some ideas. 
Gulags

100 times more child secular abuse in government schools than Catholic Church,  and the former didn't stop in the 80s

Refuting the claim that God is 'evil' 
Creation.com/is-god-inconsistent 
Same God in new and old testament 
God gave mankind 120 years to repent before flood 
Not everything that occurred in the Bible is endorsed by it 
The Bible says "there is no God"  lol
Amalekites and Cananites -  sacrificed babies. (Also Planned Parenthood) 

Bill Nye the sound byte guy.  "A speck on a speck...  I suck."
King David.  What is man that you are mindful of him? 
We are still valuable though small. 
Claudius Ptolomy knew how small we are.  Also Boëthius 6th century 
Size is not correlated to worth. A short man is not less valuable than a tall man. 

Biblical truth includes logical deduction.  A lot isn't spelled out, we have to work it out.  Like the Trinity and age of the earth. 

Words must mean the same thing for God and us.  We have the same logic or we couldn't communicate. 

Thanks for clarifying the direction of evolution statement. It's false nonetheless because the wheat these people eat everyday is an example of an organism that gained genetic information compared to its ancestors. In this case it was humans breeding today's wheat from older species of Poaceae and with that making them polyploid but it can happen naturally as well.

The thing with questions on this is, I would really like to ask one but I fear it would come off as spiteful (and they sure would not answer that seriously) or it would be something like "How do you explain ...?" and their answer would be "god, the creator" which is not falsifiable. While modern creationists spend so much time and energy on trying to falsify evolution (which - if done correctly -  is fair because that is what scientific theories always must sustain), evolutionary scientists don't try to falsify the existence of god (well, they shouldn't, some unfornately do - I'm looking at you Dawkins).

There is no religious knowledge from a scientific one just like there is no scientific knowledge from a religious one. Science should be looking for explanations for what is being observed, they got that right. Many theists feel that evolution is an attack on them because it makes them fear it would despense with the need for their god as a whole if there was an explanation for life that does not need a creator to work. For me, personally,  god is unnecessary as a whole but that is a religious/philisophical view, not a scientific one and therefore one more thing I do not teach.

If anyone has ideas for a good question, feel free to use any information I gave.

 

Found an article on polyploidity http://creation.com/copying-confusion

Yeah they like to rag on Dawkins too. 

[prayawaythefundie]

29 minutes ago, CyborgKin said:

Found an article on polyploidity http://creation.com/copying-confusion

Yeah they like to rag on Dawkins too. 

Thanks for the link!

I think Dawkins is a great biologist (The Selfish Gene). Maybe he should stick to that.

[CyborgKin]

Phil Bergen: MULTIDRUG-RESISTANT SUPERBUGS - Evolution in action?

 

Specialist in multidrug superbugs

Rise of the superbugs.  Is it evolution in action? 
Could be a bit technical. 

Setting the scene. 
Young uni student bitten by pet cat 
Fever symptoms 
She's treated with antibiotics
She's fine. No great celebration. This is normal. 
Without antibiotics so many would die of that. 

Superbugs are resistant to many antibiotics 

Antibiotics prevent surgery from causing infection. 
WHO data thousands of deaths and cost of antibiotic resistance 
Will new classes of antibiotics save us?
Only two new classes in 30 years. 
Percentage resistance going up. Research companies going down. 
Graph of deployment vs resistance time. 
Now resistance is close to immediate. 
WHO quote -  resistance threatens modern medicine. Could be post antibiotic era. 

An example  of Phil's work 
Experiment with an antibiotic on bacteria
Meaure number of viable bacteria over time 
Massive die off with first dose,  all remaining are resistant and further doses have no effect 

Is it evolution? 
It's a great example of natural selection. 

Mechanisms of protection
1. Alteration or protection of target of drug 
Case study polymixins 
Colistin example 
Five positively charged amino acids 
Bacteria with certain membranes. LPS. Highly negatively charged. 
Drug binds to the membrane.  Crucial step,  drug doesn't work without it. 
Resistance caused by mutations of LPS,  reducing the negative charge of the molecule. 
Reduces chance of drug binding to membrane 
PhoQ PmrB genes related to the charge. There's a break on expression of the gene.  Of you remove the break by rendering the gene inactive or removing the gene,  it over expresses the negativity regulator and it becomes less negatively charged.  Thus becoming resistant. 

Another way,  a phosphate gets bound,  preventing negative charge 
PmrA
Something gets switched off and prevents something,  resulting in less negative LPS in membrane 

Or,  something prevents LPS production. No LPS means no binding. And thus resistance. 

All these ways involve a system not working. Something is removed or damaged or switched off. 
It's beneficial in the context of the drug. 

2 alteration of drug access to target 
Fosfomycin example 
Peptidoglycan is prevented from forming,  disrupts cell membrane 
Needs to get into the cell to inhibit the enzyme 
Main method of resistance is preventing access to cell interior 
Fosfomycin is similar to some things that are normally transported into the cell. 
Mutation to prevent transporter from forming will prevent fosfomycin from getting in. 
Or breaking the transporter to be less effective prevents enough fosfomycin from getting inside the cell to kill it. 

These mutations are not creating anything new. 
Drug is combated by loss of existing function.  Not by adding a new system 

3 increased removal from cell interior 
Efflux pumps to remove stuff from cell. 
Including antibacterial agents. 
Buys some time for the bacteria to survive for offspring to survive with other mutations 
Salmonella example 
Activate a gene to build more pumps. 
There's a gene to build more pumps and a gene to limit that genes expression. 
RamA,  RamR
Preventing expression or binding of the control gene leads to more pumps. And thus survival. 
Thus is damaging part of the cell's regulatory system. 
Cell no longer has fine control. 

4. Deactivation of antibacterial 

Horizontal gene transfer.
Lots of methods,  we'll look at plasmids for simplicity 
Bacteria can share genes by plasmid exchange 
beta lactamase breaks down penicillin drugs 
A bacteria with beta lactamase genes can pass it to another 
Giving it penicillin resistance 
Previously susceptible bacteria become unsusceptible 
Bacteria are very promiscuous 
This is a transfer,  not creating anything new. 

All these variations of a theme show no examples of microbes to man evolution. 
Many examples of devolution 
Systems are only being broken,  no new systems are added that did not already exist somewhere 

Closing verse Psalm 139:14

 

And that's me done for the day! 

[prayawaythefundie]

"All these variations of a theme show no examples of microbes to man evolution."

I know it's not what they meant but it sounds as though they would expect a microbe turning into a man right before their eyes and that didn't happen so evolution must be wrong!

Thanks again, CyborgKin! It's always a fascinating read. It must be very exhausting to listen to all the closely-packed information all day long and to type it for us. Great work! Sleep well!

[CyborgKin]

Yeah it is exhausting.  If I stuck around for the night owl sessions, I'd be an absolute wreck.

I think they say things like "molecules to man",  "bacteria to biologists",  "particles to people",  or "microbes to microbiologists" as a kind of shorthand to distinguish between definitions of evolution.  So what they mean is that the kinds of mutations seen in all these examples of antibiotic resistance are all destroying an existing functioning biological system. Such changes are "evolution"  in that they involve lifeforms adapting to their environment,  and changes in gene frequency over time. But they don't contribute to "Evolution",  in that no new biological systems have been formed,  and to get all the variety of life from the starting first basic organism requires adding a huge number of new biological systems.

That's what they're getting at when they talk about "devolution" and the "direction of evolution".  Not that evolution has a goal or target,  but that biological systems are either removed/damaged or added.  And they claim we don't see new ones being added. 

 

Question,  does this count as "playing devil's advocate?"  

" 

[CyborgKin]

Ahh my stray double quotes returned! What's going on? 

 

 

Ron Miller morning devotional 

Late bloomer: didn't come to the Lord until late 50s, had a lot of questions as a scientist 

Christmas story. Mary's interaction with the angel 
Mary was troubled 
Luke 1:21 onward 
Was a bit perplexed by Mary's response questioning the angel. 
"How can this be since I do not know a man?"
Angel explains. 
Example of Elizabeth who was barren 
Mary accepted didn't say anything else. 
"Hang on,  I'd expect roses or chocolate with that!"

What was behind her question? Not delaying or flippant. 
Needed to see the light in her own uncertainty.  What was God actually asking for. 
She questioned God in faith. 
Lots of people in the Bible questioned God.  Gideon did non stop. 
God responded lovingly to people who questioned in faith. 

Ron had been entrenched in evolutionary thinking for 30 years. 
Didn't have an angel to question. 
Did have prayer to question God. 
Didn't ask God about science facts. 
Did pray to ask to understand God better,  open heart and mind. 
Life takes on a whole new meaning and direction when God does that. 

People have a lot of questions for God.
For instance how do I evangelise? 
Many don't ask in belief.  They ask because they want to demand an answer from God
Or people don't bring their concerns to God. 

We need to be humble and not send righteous. 
Then we shouldn't be afraid to question. 
Questions from an earnest heart are welcomed by God

[CyborgKin]

Brief interview with Rod Walsh,  the Ark Van Man 
Word from sponsor The Golden Sceptre -  service to help Christians to email politicians to stop teh evuls of homosexuals and abortions and save the future 

 

Ting Wang: CHANGING VIEWS ON AN UNCHANGING BOOK - A survey of Genesis through the ages

Ting Wang has PhD in something to do with Hebrew. 

PowerPoint isn't working quite right because he lives near Google Apple and Facebook,  but not Microsoft (laughter) 

Genesis 1
People begin to question the meaning in verse 2
Circumstantial clause -  something happening at the same time or previously. 
Not something that happens next. 
So the Hebrew does not support the Gap Theory that there's a long time between Genesis 1:1 and :2
But the Hebrew syntax is wrong for that 

Mark 10:6
Joke about "that's Greek to me" 
At beginning of creation God made them male and female. 
(in both this Greek and the Genesis Hebrew there is no 'the' before creation) 

Origen -  third century. 
Believed Genesis wasn't literal,  questioned the historicity of Genesis. 
But fiercely defended the virgin birth 

Augustine fifth century 
Believed the six days were actually a simultaneous instant 
He got that from the apocrypha,  but only understood Latin,  not Greek (at that time),  which is how he made that error. 
Doesn't mean simultaneous in the Greek. Means in common. 

Augustine said even non Christians know things about the world by reason and experience,  so don't say things which they think are nonsense and make Christianity look ignorant. 
Or something like that. 
But really that is inevitable 1 corinthians 2:14 Galatians 1:10 
So we should stick to the truth and not pander to unbelievers ideas 

Day-Age theory 
Ideas that days of creation are long periods 
2 Peter 3:8
A day is like a thousand years. 
But that was about people being impatient for Jesus return 
Self refuting theory because the order of creation doesn't fit.  Can't have only plants for a thousand years 
Whales from day 5are meant to have evolved from land creatures on day 6
How does it timetravel back? 
Also birds from dinosaurs doesn't fit the timeline) 
(apparently birds evolved from lizard hipped dinosaurs,  not bird hopped dinosaurs) 

The Framework Hypothesis 
Something about parallel triads and allegories 
Promulgated by Meredith Kline (who was Ting Wang's professor) 
He wrote in support of the Framework Hypothesis:
"Genesis 2:5 constitutes a decisive word against the traditional interpretation" 
Plants needed rain,  therefore divine providence operating was normal,  not miraculous.  Therefore it wasn't a 6 day timescale. 

But
Genesis 2:5 is talking about some specific plant types,  not all plants that were created 
Word for "shrub" only appears a couple of other times.  In desolate wasteland places,  not garden places. 
"Plant of the field" next appears in Genesis 3 curses.  Context of toil. 
Also mentioned in context of Egypt plagues. 
So Genesis 2:5 is not referring to Eden plants. It's explaining to the Israelites that conditions were different. 

Also, plants in Eden were watered by streams. 
Also the Hebrew grammar in Genesis 2:5 doesn't fit the theory 

A book Reading Genesis 1-2 with a lot of scholars views. 
An author Tremper Longman claims the human genome projects proves population of 10k founders,  not Adam and Eve 
But then why is Jesus the last Adam real? 
Also he's relying on what his scientist friends are telling him,  not his own studies of the Bible. 

Ten Thousand Founders Hypothesis 
Assumes a certain time of separation for the human chimpanzee split 
Very circular reasoning to argue that point from something that assumes evolution.  Or a rhombus (laughter) 

Longman again,  arguing about Copernicanism 
Basically because Copernucus was right and the church was wrong,  the church was also wrong and evolution is right. 
Except technically you can say Copernucus didn't prove Ptolemy wrong.  You can use either model,  Copernicanism is just a simpler mathematical model 
And what would the church being wrong then prove anyway? 

People calling the Genesis account "doxological prose" and "exalted narrative". 

Others say if Jesus taught a view we must hold to it 
Matthew 19:4-5
 Corinthians 11:3 real Eve 
Romans 5:14 real Adam 
1 John 3:12 real Cain really murdered his real brother
Luke 11:50-51 Abel in Genesis was as real as the far more recent Zechariah 

John Walton claims Genesis is about "functional origins not material origins" (categories not actual things) 
(nice guy but doesn't mean he's correct) 
Church fathers and rabbis all suggest a material understanding. 
We have to believe the NT over Walton. 
He claimed the ancient Israelites understood it as non literal and we must understand scripture the same way they did. 
How can we do that? 
They didn't have Netflix,  their lives were totally different 
Collins says we only need to consider what nomads and shepherds understood. 
How do we know what they knew? We can't email them. 

Walton says "the Bible was written for us,  not to us" 
Galatians 3:16, 29, Mark 10:3 say otherwise 

Authorial intent 
Longman says inerrancy concerns what God intends to teach 
Walton says our biblical hermeneutics is designed to find what God intends to teach 
But we have to read what the text says,  not what we imagine it intends,  especially when it's the direct opposite 
2 Peter 1:20-21

Hugh Ross says nature is the 67th book of the Bible 
That's not how general Revelation works 
Romans 1:20
Psalm 19:1
But the mass of the electron is not inerrant and true like Scripture because we have a few more decimal places that we used to.  
So you can't elevate our knowledge of nature (and interpretation of it) above scripture 

Jeremiah 33:25

Genesis 1:5 says evening  and morning were one day.  Definition of what a day is.  Thus literal day. 

[CyborgKin]

Word from sponsor Choices of Life 
Pro life ministry to Australian schools 
80-100,000 abortions a year in Australia. 
Except only South Australia actually counts.  No one else wants to know. 
Culture of death 
Islamist terrorists say they love death 
So dies our society 
Suicide rate high 
Little regard for sanctity of life 
Genesis 1:27
Only mankind men and women and children made in image of God 
Every human being 
What does Choices of Life do? 
Specifically educational 
Present pro life message in schools 
Upper primary school program about the wonder of life 
Years 11 and 12 program with more ethics components. 
Teaching them the sanctity of life 
What can we do? 
Be alert and aware of the problem and what's going on in parliament 
Pray that the nation will be turned around 
Gib donations plz,  their only funding source 
Newsletter, volunteer to present

[CyborgKin]

Tas Walker: GLOBAL MEGACATACLYSM—THE 'BIG PICTURE' - The largescale impact of the Gensis Flood is spectacularly obvious
Tas Walker qualifications:
Geology and mechanical engineering. 
Worked in coal 
(Also involved with Gideons Bible organisation) 

James Hutton
Scientists decided not to look for anything catastrophic 
Only look for things we see today. 
Catastrophes banned 

Charles Lyell,  Principles of Geology 
Popularised Hutton's concept 
Only consider processes we observe today 

Geologic time scale 
Image of geologic column and lifeforms that lived in each 

Cataclysm described in Genesis 6 -  8
Earth filled with violence so make an ark 
About 140-150 metres long depending on cubit length 
Height of 4 storey building 
Carrying capacity 15k tonnes 
Stable. 

Waters prevailed on the earth 
Global mega cataclysm 
No land left uncovered 
This is eminently plausible. 
70 percent currently covered in water. 
Relatively not much change needed to move the crust to even it out. 
Enough water to cover flattened earth to 3km depth 
Earth's surface is broken into technonic plates. 

Geologists say likely global flood on Mars. 
Martian Noahican era 
But Mars is still missing liquid water 
Catastrophes 
Arizona Meteor Crater 
Wolfe Crater Australia 

Warren D Allmon said Lyell sold snake oil of extreme gradualism.  Geologists are rejecting obvious catastrophic evidence because it's not gradual. 

Evidence of catastrophe 
Three Sisters formation in New South Wales Australia,  not far from here 
Sandstone on edge of the Sydney basin 
Can see thick layer with cross bedding.  Shows it was deposited by flowing water. 
Explanation of how cross bedding is deposited by water.  Underwater "sand dunes" that grow sideways. 
Thanks to road department for the cuttings so we can see the layers in the sandstone. 

How was the Hawkesbury Sandstone formed? 
Long list of suggestions but none fit. 
We don't see such sand deposition of this scale anywhere today. 
On scientist calculated 20m high wall of water 250km wide delivering tonnes of sediment to the Sydney area would form one of the layers. 

Eromanga sea is a proposed inland sea that deposited large scale sandstones in Australia. 
Such Epeiric seas though to be many millions of years ago and nothing to do with Noah's flood. 

Reinterpreting geologic column. 
Removing dates and connecting it to stages of flood. 

Derek Ager (uniformitarian geologist) quote about how strange it is that such vast ares of the earth are covered by the same kinds of sediment at the same time. 

Carnarvon Gorge Queensland. 
Outcrops of rock sticking up. 
Sediments used to be higher,  top eroded off leaving some sticking up. 
A lot of material eroded away. Signs of massive catastrophic erosion.

The Olgas
Rounded boulders.  Lots of them. 
Preferred direction showing how they were washed in by water. 

Amadeus Basin
Some of the earliest deposited sediments visible are Heavitree Quartzite 
1 to 10 metres thick with cross bedding 
Uniformitarians always look for an explanation to avoid a "flood of Biblical proportions" 
They instead say "wide flowing rivers delivering huge amounts of sediment" and "huge flat shallow subsiding basins" 
High energy deposition 
Tipped over layers that have since been eroded off. 
Enormous amounts of sediments deposited and eroded 
A lot of other similar basins in central Australia with very similar features. 
So scientists propose Centralia Superbasin 

Great Arisian basin 
Fossils found
Muttaburrasaurus
Evidence of rapid burial 

A dinosaur fossil in China,  two buried together and about a dozen in the area,  signs the mud was pushed down -  buried alive rapidly as a group. 

Epeiric seas during cretaceous 
Drumheller Canada lots of dinosaur fossils well preserved 
Gryposaurus notabilis,  part of skin preserved 
Drawing on livescience website,  herd of Centrosaurs described on the site as having drowned in a flood,  left massive dinosaur graveyard in Alberta 

A plateau of tilted hard and soft sediment layers. 
The hard and soft layers were Al cut off evenly rather than unevenly as you would expect from long ages 
Rounded boulders with impact marks on top 
Shows high energy of event 

Andrew Mial quote,  need a new approach to uniformitarianism. 
Methods sedimentology is based on aren't working

Granite rocks 
Example Albany Western Australia 
Formed like a lava lamp,  melted rock maybe 10km in size bubbled up 50km inch by inch... 
J. D.  Clemens quote that our ideas about granite formation have been turned on their head in the last ten years. 
Actually granite formation is catastrophic,  2m wide,  ascending in maybe 5 hours to 3 months. 
Melting transport accumulation crystallisation and cooling each can occur rapidly. 

Quote: 5mm plagioclase crystal could form in as little as an hour,  no more than 5 years. 

Derek Ager quote.  The past as interpreted by geologists is not what it used to be. 

Genesis 9:11
God's covenant to never again cut off all life with waters of a flood. 

[CyborgKin]

Gary Bates: THE DYNASTIES OF ANCIENT EGYPT - Do they falsify the biblical dates of creation and the Flood?

 

Australian moved to USA 9 years ago. CEO of CMI-USA.
Elected international CEO.
Book Alien Intrusion Amazon reach top 50

 

Likes to solve problems hence UFO book. 
Got sick of hearing the tour guides give dates for pyramids that don't fit Bible 

Moses doesn't mention the name of Pharaoh 
Books like to say no evidence of Hebrew slaves in Egypt or the Exodus 

Egypt mentioned 79 times in Genesis 
291 in first 5 Bible books 
A lot of Genesis and Exodus occurs in Egypt 

Who was the Pharaoh of Moses and of Joseph? 
Gary says we can't figure it out for sure. 

Holiday photos 
Facade temple of Karnak at Luxor/Phebes 
Largest religious building 

Shows a secular standard timeline of Egyptian history 

We have the most artifacts from the New Kingdom 

They were preoccupied with the afterlife, hence such a rich legacy preserved 
Pharaohs encouraged idea they eree living incarnations of gods 
Names needed to be spoken aloud to continue in the next world,  hence so much building 
Some examples shown of how they preserved their names and images 
Cartouches,  basically badges 
Phonograph and ideograms 
Getting the readers to speak their names 

Problems with Egyptian history 
Proto dynastic period back 5k BC
King Narmer 

Creation about 4k BC flood around 2.5 BC
Could the flood have survived the pyramids? 
I mean could the pyramids have survived the flood? 

Sandstone quarries,  fossils. 
Pyramids must be post flood because it created the material in the pyramids 

Details about a few pharaohs. 
Dates are so precise,  how did archaeologists work it out? 
They didn't have a dating system back then,  just recorded length each reigned 

Hard to fix a known point to work from 
The Dark Period that has the least information 

Egyptians had some kind of police force to try to stop grave robbing 
Valley of the kings special workforce couldn't mix with other people to keep secrets 
We're discovering new stuff now 
So much very well preserved,  very remarkable discoveries are being made 
Walls were vividly painted.  Some were closed over and beautifully preserved 

Egypt was not always a single kingdom 
Upper middle lower kingdoms at various times 
Some contemporaneously reigning pharaohs 

Statue key for pharaohs 
White crown southern Egypt 
Red crown northern 
Double crown united Egypt 

Deriving dates 
King lists 
Manetho Egyptian priest compiled 
Synchronisms with other cultures 
Carbon 14 is a big one 
Astronomical cycles like Sirius 

Abydos king list 
Seti 1st 
To legitimise rule 
So left some out for political reasons 

List of pharaohs of 18th and 19th dynasties 
Was start of New Kingdom or Golden age
Expelled the Hyksos 

Akenaten 
Family man,  portrayed himself as less than perfect 
Wife was Nefertiti 
Worshipped only the sun god instead of many 
Regarded as heretic 

Turin King list on back of tax roll
Very incomplete 

Several other lists listed 
Many incomplete,  out of order,  not originals 

Manetho 
Proving to the Greeks that the Egyptian civilisation was older 
Time of the ptolomies 
Cleopatra (the 7th) last one 

Aegyptuica by Manetho 
Had an agenda and his contemporaries didn't have much regard for him 
Wrote in Greek 
Need to transliterate names back to Egyptian 
But pharaohs had several names! Which one did he translate to Greek? 
A lot can be proved wrong by monuments 
But it's the best we have so we use it 

A king writes of the Habiru.  Seems like Hebrew but most discount it because they think a different Pharaoh was at the time of the exodus 

Mentions of the rising of Sirius but not the location of the sighting so dates could be off by a hundred years. 

Sir Alan Henderson Gardiner quote about rags and tatters 
Even Wikipedia admits Egyptian chronology is problematic 

Why is Egyptian history silent about the Hebrews? 
They hated their enemies 
Didn't want to name their enemies or they would exist in the afterlife 
Claimed victory against the Hittites when they lost 
Didn't name the kings they defeated 
So of course they didn't name the Hebrews! 

Moses didn't name the Pharaoh,  which was standard practice were and when he was trained in Egyptian. 
Later in history pharaohs are named in the Bible,  times changed. 

Late exodus theory: Ramses II
Standard theory but explicitly does not fit biblical chronology 
1 Kings 6
200 years before Ramses 
Can't shift Ramses and the New Kingdom because it's the best attested period 
So it wasn't Ramses 

PJ Huber quote about need to revisit Egyptian chronology 

A candidate for exodus Pharaoh 
Amenophis II aka Amenhotep II

His first born son predeceased him 
Or something like that it was complicated and I didn't catch it all. 

We have his mummy.  But it doesn't ever say literally in the Bible that the Pharaoh personally drowned in the sea. 
In his war campanies he brought back thousands of prisoners,  far more than previous.  Perhaps to replace missing slaves. 

Hatshepsut
They tried to erase her,  why? 
Was Pharaoh's daughter,  who drew Moses out of the water.  So she got the blame and her temple was defaced 

Only two pharaohs reigned long enough to fit time span given 
And A2's son then worshipped a single loving sun god as previously mentioned 

So A2 is a great candidate

Plug for Exodus Patterns of Evidence film
Busting Myths book 
Why does a good God allow bad things? Book by Gary 
Etc etc

[prayawaythefundie]

Did Ting Wang explain why he thinks you can't have only plants for a thousand years?

Tas Walker said that scientists didn't look at past catastrophes but it is widely accepted in the scientific world that dinosaurs died out as a consequence of a massive meteoritic impact and that without it the big radiation of mammal species could not have started. Did he address that meteoritic impact at all?

I really don't know enough about Eyptian history to ak good questions or even argue but did he even answer his own question at the end? If secular history dates about the Egyptians don't fit his biblical timeline, has he given a full alternative chronicle of Pharaos that does? Sorry, I really didn't get if he has.

[CyborgKin]

KeeFui Kon: INVASION OF THE RICE KIND - How variation in rice supports creation

 

Skipped to get an early night, because I need to stay alive and sane.  And tomorrow is a packed day.

I took some pics of the chess challenge, if anyone cares.  It's just people with chess boards.

[CyborgKin]

40 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Did Ting Wang explain why he thinks you can't have only plants for a thousand years?

Tas Walker said that scientists didn't look at past catastrophes but it is widely accepted in the scientific world that dinosaurs died out as a consequence of a massive meteoritic impact and that without it the big radiation of mammal species could not have started. Did he address that meteoritic impact at all?

I really don't know enough about Eyptian history to ak good questions or even argue but did he even answer his own question at the end? If secular history dates about the Egyptians don't fit his biblical timeline, has he given a full alternative chronicle of Pharaos that does? Sorry, I really didn't get if he has.

1. I think he said if the days of creation were a thousand years, then that's a thousand years of plants with no insects or other creatures to pollinate them.

2. Not that specific one but he mentioned other impact sites. He mostly talked about Australian geology.

When was the dinosaur meteorite hypothesis first suggested?

3. I think his general idea was the oldest stuff was the least supported by the shaky evidence and so the timeline could be compressed, but we don't have enough data for anyone to construct an accurate sensible timeline.

Also I keep forgetting what day it is, help!

[docmom]

So if beta lactamase, for example, an enzyme that specifically and only breaks down beta lactam antibiotics is not a gain of function why did god bother to include it in bacteria he invented 6,000 years ago?  Was his purpose to screw us when we finally did work out how to treat bacterial infections?  Inquiring minds want to know.

These fundies are very good at blinding folks with science. What they say is a lot of fact with just enough fiction thrown in to confuse the masses.

[CyborgKin]

4 minutes ago, docmom said:

So if beta lactamase, for example, an enzyme that specifically and only breaks down beta lactam antibiotics is not a gain of function why did god bother to include it in bacteria he invented 6,000 years ago?  Was his purpose to screw us when we finally did work out how to treat bacterial infections?  Inquiring minds want to know.

These fundies are very good at blinding folks with science. What they say is a lot of fact with just enough fiction thrown in to confuse the masses.

Oh that's perfect for the question box.

[prayawaythefundie]

Ahem, there's tons of plants that do not need insects to pollinate them. The wind does that. Just saying.

The dinosaur/meteorite hypothesis came up in the 1980s and was lately confirmed by a group of respected scientists as the only suggested scenario that fit their newest data (while the vulcano hypothesis, for example, did not). 

Thanks for explaining their take on Egyptian pharao chronicles!

[CyborgKin]

Word from sponsor Living Waters Down Under

Ray Comfort,  Hell's Best Kept Secret 
Plastic Australian million dollar notes 
180 movie 
Evolution vs God film 
"The problem with people who don't believe in evolution is I don't think they have imaginations." 
(much laughter from audience) 

Topic Dance of the planets and Moons
Mark's background as antenna engineer 
Satellites are antennas in space 
Mark explains CMI Friends Groups 
We have Friends of CMI... in Darwin! (laughter/applause) 

Dr David King couldn't make it 

Aristotle developed geocentric model 
Eratosthenes calculated circumference of Earth to 2 percent 
So much for flat earth 
Ptolemy 
Copernicus
Galileo 
Kepler
Newton
Einstein 
Hubble 

Terrestial telescopes 
Optical and radio 
Orbiting telescopes 
A few types mentioned 

Carl Sagan Cosmos 
The Cosmos is all that is... Etc
The  cosmic box.  The universe is in the box,  nothing outside the box,  we don't look or think about anything outside the box 
Fundamentally atheistic worldview 
Looking in the box can't tell us how or why the box is there 

Bible is history book of the universe,  can have complete confidence 
God is outside the box 

Colossians 2:8

People are looking in the box to find out where the box came from,  it doesn't work. 
Plug for creation.com
Infobytes newsletter 

Problems with planet formation 
The bits don't actually stick together like the model needs them to
Micron barrier 
Meter sized barrier 
Kilometer sized barrier 

Nebular Hypothesis 
Venus and Mercury retrograde orbit,  how? 
Sun spinning too slow compared to percentage of mass
4 percent of angular momentum,  99.9 percent of mass 
Gas giants should not exist,  don't fit model,  or small planets needed for form somewhere else 

49 Ceti
Too much dust,  comets needed to collide every 6 seconds for ten million years to make the dust. 
But comets were meant to stick together to make planets,  so which is it? 

Any evidence that our solar system is young? 
Yes. 
Short period comets would disintegrate in 100k years. 
Proposed solution is the Kuiper belt.  But the objects there are too big to be short period comets. 
Pluto craters wrong size to support existence of many such objects in Kuiper belt. 

Long period comets explained by Oort cloud. 
No actual evidence of Oort cloud. 

Venus is slowing down,  so it can't be old. 

Saturn's rings should have lots of dust contamination but are clean 
Saturn's rings are growing dimmer so can't be old 
There's a ring that orbits the planet backwards 
Geysers on one moon,  another is loosing CO2 at a too high rate. 
Titan's methane atmosphere has been given upper age of 10M

Jupiter
A lot of moons,  tidally locked 
IO quarter of earth's diameter but gives off more energy,  which can't be explained of old 
Ganymede is too magnetic to be old 
Callisto is very cratered but with large craters,  not small as they ought to be if old 
An asteroid with rings that can't be explained 

Pluto New Horizons pics 
Very surprising lack of impact craters 
Looks very young! 
Explanation volcanic activity and such 
But it's too small rocky and remote to do that 
No activity is being seen,  only proposed to explain why it looks young 
Atmosphere should have frozen and collapsed 
Or been energised by UV and lost 
Loss is thousands of times slower than predicted! Or it isn't old

Luna
George Darwin proposed fission theory 
Too chemicals difficult and orbit plane is wrong and it would have shattered 
So capture theory was proposed 
Not known were the moon came from or how it formed 
Stuff about geostationary satellite launch sequences and how the orbit is elliptical and you have to circularise the orbit 
Would need some third body to knock the moon into an orbit 
That body is not observed 
No way or chance for it to get into a  nice circular orbit 

Co formation from nebula 
Doesn't fit 

Meteor strike 
Doesn't fit either 
And why only one moon? 

Irwin Shapiro joked the moon is an illusion because no working explanation for it. 

Lunar eclipses 
Nice blood moon photos 
Shows shape of the earth 
The ancients knew the earth was round 

Tides 
Two low and high tides a day 
Earth Mon system orbits the barycentre,  there's a wobble,  hence two sets of tides. 
Flush the coastal areas prevent stagnant water 
Tides are evidence of design  because they are not too strong or too weak but right for life 

Tidal locking of moon explained 
Moon is oblate spheroid 
Due to the moon the earth is despinning slightly. Bulge acts as a break. 
Also the moon slowly moves away from the earth 
Receding 3.8cm per year. 
Upper limit 1.3 billion years 

Search for earth-like planets 
Kepler Space Telescope 
Habitable zone of star,  goldilocks zone 
Rocky planet
Not tidally locked
Right temperature 
Stable star 
Orbital period and spin need to be in certain bounds 
Several other necessary features I missed 

Ways to detect exoplanets:
Eclipses 
Dopler wobble 

Shows a plot of detected exoplanets 
Red hot Jupiters that must be young -  their sun's are eating them 
Curiously our planets are well outside the main plot 
Our solar system is an outlier! 
Our sun is remarkably even tempered and well mannered compared to usual stars 

We live on a goldilocks planet! 
Long list of all the right things we have 

Conclusion our solar system is very atypical and special 

Plug for creation magazine 
Quote from Newton's Principia 

Everything was created for a Purpose

[CyborgKin]

Craig Russell: THE BABEL MENTALITY - Climate models, the Ice Age and the age of the earth

Will help us navigate climate science concerns 

Called Bible mentality because of the common idea that man is the master of the creation and of his destiny. 
The same lie Satan tempted us with in the garden and at Babel -  becoming like God 

Not long since Paris2015
"There is no planet B" posters

IPCC recommendations -  they are political not science 
Billions of dollars being spent 
Some use useful,  some a waste 
Bad science will lead to bad policy,  impact everyday life especially the poorest 

What level of climate variability should we expect? 
We have 150 years of days 
Need 30 years for a firm observation so we really only have 5

Reduction in growing seasons 20 percent,  is it unprecedented? 

Dangerous Imminent Anthropogenic Climate Change? 

A lot cheaper to look at models,  cheaper and more comfortable than taking measurements 

Ice age
What do you think of? 
Snowball earth.  Mammoths 
The movie series.  That funny squirrel thing (much laughter) 

How can the Bible help us understand climate stuff? 
2 Peter 3:5-6
Climatology 101:
"God's order for the climate" 
A lot of arguing between climatologists and geologists who are the true custodians of knowledge of the history of earth's climate 
Different preflood climate 
Flood,  major climate upset,  followed by slowly settling aftereffects
Will there be another such disaster? No. 
Genesis 8:22

Working in the field,  bears make lousy field assistants 

BBC article saying UN climate plans must go further to prevent dangerous warming. 
Picture making CO2 look like dangerous pollutant. 
But what is pictured is white plumes of water vapour 
Actually water vapour is the big greenhouse gas. 
Who framed carbon dioxide? 
Roger Rabbit joke,  audience laughter 

Global cooling alarmism sulfur dioxide from coal plants in 1972
Imminent ice age 
IPCC 1988 worried we would cause something second only to nuclear winter 
1977 Time magazine cover how to survive an ice age 

Is this concern and alarmist culture justified? 
Based on belief in unstable climate system 
Long record of modest CO2 levels in ice cores 
Recent sharp rise in CO2
Human activity accounts for 3 percent of CO2 emitted per year 
Plots of what are said to be historic levels of CO2 methane and nitrous oxide 

Basics of climate 
Solar energy 
Diagram of key components
Troposphere,  biosphere,  hydrosohere,  cryosphere,  atmosphere 
Role of each part explained 
Any change in the components and interactions will change the climate 
IPCC wrote in 2001 that it's a coupled nonlinear chaotic system and long term prediction is not possible. 
They've always had a bias against CO2 specifically. 
Al Gore scare campaign! 

Earth's annual global mean enemy balance 
30 percent incoming radiation reflected 
Some absiebeduby the earth and radiated back 
Radiatively active gasses trap some (known as greenhouse gases but that's not a very accurate name) 
Average temp about 15 C. Would be minus 19 C without greenhouse gasses 
10 of warming from CO2. Biggest contributor is water vapour 

Carbon dioxide physics 
Weak greenhouse gas
Diminishing activity. (like painting a window,  each coat takes out 90 percent) 
The first 20ppm out of 400ppm provides half the warming effect. 
Sensitivity is about .8 degrees each time you double concentration 
But might be .4 due to feedbacks 

Critical assumption of models is that heating releases more water vapour for more warming 
Assumptions about cloud formating,  that science is lagging 

CO2 is great for plants 

Quote Dr Roy Spencer about climate models 

Global Average Temperatures
Should we use thermostats or satellites? 
Satellites far better.  Avoid heat urban island effect 
But we only have very recent satellite data 

Hiatus period 
Cooling trend while CO2 still rising 

Warming is good? 
NIPCC quote 

Tropospheric temperatures
Warming trend peak 1998
Has been a greening of the earth 

Plot of all the models 
Only two low enough to be close to actual temperature 
Models have failed. 
Why? 
Blame it on the Chinese 
Hide it in the ocean 
Ocean acidity decoy 
Claim records inaccurate 

Dr David Evans "climate change in 12 minutes" . 
Experimental science,  no deep time 

Michael Oard's material 

Actual evidence of past extensive glaciation 
A third of the land area shows this 
Not the lowland areas in high latitudes 
The earth wasn't a snowball 
Cooling doesn't cause glaciation 
Need water vapour 
Both cold surfaces and warm oceans 

Evidence of glaciation 
Striations 
Drop stones 
Moraines 

Need water vapour,  snow and ice accumulation,  and cool summers to have ice age 
Peaked 3 to 4 hundred years after the flood 
Warm oceans from volcanism and tectonic activity 
A lot of ash and dust so cool summers 
Mentions of the ice in the book of Job 

Mammoths were about as adapted to an ice cold climate as sheep 
But still portrayed as snow creatures 
Fossils with spruce birch larch beavers 
Leaves of preserved plants found in permafrost,  clear past climate change 

To explain ice age (extensive glaciation period) without biblical flood requires an unstable climate 
You need unstable tipping points to get ice age without the biblical flood as an explanation 
Hence unstable climate models predict CO2 tipping points

Climate proxies 
Explaining ice cores 
Snow compressing to ice with trapped air being sealed in 
Can't rely on the ice cores for dates 
Fractionation is possible which messes up the data 
Oxygen 18 very important 
Water 12 percent heavier evaporates slower 

Greenland ice core data plot shown 
Explains post flood warm period followed by ice age period 

The Lost Squadron 
46 years later the planes were under 75m of  ice,  moved many km (I think it was 25)
Ice core samples can't be trusted to preserve atmosphere,  and the methods of dating the layers are suspect. 

[AlysonRR]

I used to work in environmental microbiology, with a specialty in extreme environments analogous to Pre-Cambrian environmental conditions.

I'm reading science-y words strung together without meaning, and false analogies being used excessively. 

My favorite quote about evolution is this:

"Geology shows that fossils are of different ages. Paleontology shows a fossil sequence, the list of species represented changes through time. Taxonomy shows biological relationships among species. Evolution is the explanation that threads it all together. Creationism is the practice of squeezing one's eyes shut and wailing 'does not!"

Thanks for the running commentary on the conference. It makes my brain bleed, but it's a good reminder that people still believe this incredulous stuff.

[CyborgKin]

"Geology shows a global catastrophe that reshaped the planet.   Paleontology shows rapid burial of lifeforms,  many indistinguishable from those we observe today, and just about every major  type of organism at the same time as the dinosaurs.  Taxonomy shows discrete groups of organisms,  with no clear or singular evolutionary tree connecting them."

- what the creationists would have you believe. 

I got the beta lactamase question in. And also asked why only male speakers

[CyborgKin]

Jonathan Sarfati: GENESIS IN DEPTH - Illuminating insights from the author of a new commentary on Chapters 1-11

 

Trying to summarise his 800 page book in 45 minutes. 
For everyone but can be given to pastor or seminarian 
Shows importance of Biblical history for Christian doctrines 
Contains up to date science and stuff 

John 1 Jesus existing before creation and nothing that came into being, came into being apart from him
Jesus is not a created being 

Messianic prophecy genesis 3:15
Isaiah 59:20 kinsman redeemer,  the redeemer must be a blood relative 

Genealogy showing the lines of Joseph and Mary as in Matthew and Luke 
Luke gives genealogy of Abraham because he was writing to Gentiles 
Adam is the son of God, not ape 
New testament writers cite Genesis as real history 
Jesus defined marriage by referring to the first created people, male and female 
Joke about the Bible isn't a biology textbook,  good because textbooks go out of date. (laughter) 
God gave man and woman dominion over creation 

No incompatible duplication: Genesis 1 and 2 are complimentary. 
The German higher critics who said otherwise didn't know much about ancient middle eastern literature 

People who say creation is not important,  just teach the gospel 
But the gospel depends on biblical history 
Need to understand the bad news,  what is sin where did it come from 
Physical death is the penalty for sin 
Jesus physical death paid in full for all sin of every believer 
1 corinthians 15:21-22
Our promises physical resurrection rests on Jesus' physical resurrection and thus physical death,  relating back to Adam's death that was the punishment for sin was physical death 
1 corinthians 15:38-41 lists created things in reverse order to the creation account in Genesis 

Huge cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile ideas of the Gospel with evolution 
We ought to be logical and not try to reconcile them 
Some do but that doesn't make them unsaved 
Fortunately being illogical is not an unforgivable sin 

Millions of years of fossils with gout and cancer and osteoporosis and thorns 
That can't exist before the creation that God called very good 
There was no death or evil in God's original creation 
Death came through actions of one man 
Romans 5:12
Romans 6:23
Chronology and timing is very important in the Bible 

When was the fall? 
Can't be before the seventh day 
God blessed the seventh day and made it holy 
Cain was the first person conceived 
Adam was told to be fruitful 
He was sinless so not disobedient 
Physically perfect so no trouble conceiving 
So it want long. 
But some time passed because God walked in the garden and the verb form indicates it was a habitual action.  

Broccoli is proof of the curse 
Song about deadly Australian animals.  "Come to Australia you might get accidentally killed!" 

Totally modern homosapiens "dated" 160k years,  evidence of cultural activity.  So accepting those dates means human death before the fall.  So you can't go along with Hugh Ross. 

People didn't eat animals and the animals didn't eat each other before the fall. 
Prophecies of animals being restored 
Prophecies of Earth being restored. To what? Not to millions of years of death and suffering. 

Plants aren't living in the sense that humans and animals are. 
So "Plant death"  was okay. 
Plants wither not "die" 
Solar powered food factories! 
Our opponents don't read our material to refute our best arguments 
After flood we were allows to eat animals 
Jesus ate fish. 
Fossils show preflood injuries of animals attacking live animals and animals eating and digesting animals 
So animals ate animals preflood 

Blood is needed for forgiveness of sin. This was taught from the beginning 
Cain and Abel 
Coats of skins from animals from Adam and Eve 
They taught the principle to their children 
Cain's attitude was come to God in the way he pleased
Verb form in "sin is crouching at your door" said to Cain,  maybe hinting at predatory animals 

Noah was like a second Adam 
Progenitors of human race 
Blessing and curse 
Sacrifice for sin 
Naked because of sin 
Clean animals means suitable for sacrifice 

Ham gloated at the failure of his Godly father 
Very straightforward and literal events,  some people try to read too much into it 

God cursed Canaan 
Carthaginians like Hannibal (as in Baal) were Cananites 
Child sacrificed 
Some Cananites like Rahab (an ancestor of Jesus) were saved by grace through faith. 

Toledots were not colophons
Means what follows from 
Links the sections of Genesis together 
Likely used by Moses between sections 
They marked what follows on,  weren't signing the end of sections 
Genesis is a unity,  no break in content or genre 
Chapter breaks not inspired 
Rest of the Bible treats it all equally historically 
Hebrews 11

Moses edited much older documents together 
Explaining history to people of Israel who has just come out of Egypt 
Egypt was used as a refence point 
No mention of temple or Nethenim who worked in temple 
Couldn't have been written later,  that doesn't make sense 
Names of God used support this too 

Moses edited,  because he added contemporary references "even to this day..." 
Didn't edit everything. Saying "in the direction of Sodom" is like "towards the twin towers"  must be written before the destruction 

Kenton Sparks claimed Jesus erred in confirming Genesis history. Utter heresy. 

Closing verse: Jesus said to Nicodemus if you don't believe me about earthly things how will you believe me about spiritual things? 

[CyborgKin]

Q and A session

 

Hundreds of questions 
Won't answer any that gave email addresses to follow up 
Dinosaur questions covered by Answers Book 
Lots covered by Answers Book,  website,  and John's new commentary 

How does talking about creation help us know God? Session tomorrow 
Kangaroos hopped to Australia,  see Answers Book and website, marsupials are also in South America 

Do retreating glaciers prove global warming? 
They are retreating 
They are dynamic,  advanced in little ice age 
So there are oscillations. 

Stalacmites and stalactites? 
Formed late and after flood 

Great Dividing Range? 
All the continents have similar uplifts 

Tasmania was connected to Australia until after the ice age 

Is this debate just a distraction from the gospel? 
Interviews with street evangelists say no 
Christians say people ask evolution questions regularly? 

Why only male speakers? 
Have some female speakers but doesn't always work out that way due to the range of subjects.  Had a female speaker at a US conference for example. 

Karnak is isn't biggest religious structure if you measure extra stuff like fields 

Soil formation 
Missed most of that but it takes max a thousand years 

Superbugs why are they called that? 
Press name 
Hard to treat 

Should we stop taking our antibiotics? 
The example of resistance in 1 dose was extreme.  And that was a test tube not a patient with an immune system.  In reality that drug would have likely cured a patient 
Varied opinions on what dosages should be 
Some say dead bugs can't mutate,  some say stop when patient feels better,  some throw their hands up. 

Stuff about the cosmos 
Looking in the box shows us there is a creator but we can't find the creator in the box. 

Explaining why they apply uniformitarianism geology in examples: 
to explain why it doesn't work if we run something back at the present rate for the long agers' proposed time scale 

Read John Hartnett's article on New Cosmology or his book Starlight Time and the New Physics to answer a lot of the questions 
Also Answers Book 
Multiple time dilation space stretching models 
Strong evidence speed of light has not changed 
John is actually on his third or more cosmological model 
Internal problems with consistency of Carmelian cosmological models 
Tentative models,  continues to look for new models 
Convinced Russ Humphries that the universe is not currently expanding,  from Scripture
Quasars discovered to be suddenly changing luminosity,  which fits a creation model but not a long age big bang model 

How do you answer university questions about evolution? 
No moral problem writing down answers that fit within another worldview. 
Ability to interpret data within multiple worldviews is valuable 
Keep your head down and get your qualifications 
Postgrad studies depend on people liking you 

Evangelism in university? 
Bible says don't hide your light or deny God... 
Bible says be prepared to give an answer .  There may be a later time you are preparing for. 
So that's a reason to not play your card yet. 
Build up your light for later when you are qualified to critique
You won't be invited to do PhD studies if you jump up and down 
Saying what Darwin says is not saying you agree 
Don't need to invoke evolutionary theory to explain data! 

Cultural vs normative interpretation of laws? 
Some laws are explicitly cultural:
Laws like do not eat shellfish are clearly cancelled by Scripture itself 

Darwin and blatant racism 
Origin of Species didn't have racist views
later book Descent of Man did
People today of course don't talk about it 

ENCODE project finding how much of DNA is functional 
Evolutionists in the know hate it 
ENCODE project people don't think they'll ever finish figuring anything out 

Intelligent Design people 
Those who aren't doing biblical history don't have The Fall so they can't explain a lot of the world 

Usher's chronology 
Not inspired but in the right ballpark 
Jonno has his own calcs 
6k is a good round number
8 thousand years is for wimps 

Warming,  what should we expect? 
Not increases of storms 
Medieval warm period was a time of great prosperity 
Farmers can increase grain yields with tech even with less rain 
Should expect much sea level rise 

Something geological that can be deposited rapidly in water,  I missed the formation 
Apparent successive fossil forests are tree trunks ripped off,  transported and deposited end ways at various heights as sediment was quickly laid down. 

Genesis 6 Sons of God? See appendix of Gary Bates Alien Intrusion book 
Claims of Nephilim in Canan were a lie by the spies 

Giant humans you get emails about were photoshopped, see snopes.com and the square cube law 

Corals grow fast in the right conditions see website and Rob Carter DVD 

(the panel are ribbing each other in a friendly way about whose topic is best) 
Superbugs is a sexy topic that gets government grants 
We need more PhD students 

Why do bacteria produce beta thingy to stop penicillin? 
Other bacteria produce penicillin so they need to be able to break it down for reasons. 

Earth's moon is relatively big with respect to the earth compared to the moons of other planets. 

Day was a tenth of a second shorter in Adam's day due to slowing of earth's rotation. Negligible! 
We've added ten seconds to the year since we last defined it and that was due to the poles wobbling,  not the earth slowing. 

There's verses that say the earth shall not be moved,  but others say the believer shall not be moved.  So that's clearly a figure of speech. 

Up to 59 possible mechanisms that could cause redshifts. 

Something about tired light losing energy over long travel time to earth 
With best spectroscopy and best clocks we can't rule out tired light 
Could lose energy interacting with virtual vacuumed energy 
That could cause redshift as a function of distance. Maybe. Can't rule it out yet 
John Hartnett knows clocks because he makes the most stable clocks in the universe!! eleventy! 

Stuff about accelerated nuclear decay which could universally increase radiometric dates 

Creation Ministries is a grassroots organisation,  we sure aren't going to make institutions change what they teach 

Evolution can't make predictions and it is disqualified from being science. 

Geologic column 
Multiple creationist views 
Some say it exists,  some say it's illusionary 

Anecdote about putting a footnote in a paleontology essay,  something like "I've done my best trying to figure out the order of these fossils but I have no idea whether this is correct" earned a high distinction,  the footnote was crossed out with the note "welcome to the field of paleontology" 

Purpose of tree of life in Eden? 
It's also in heaven,  that's something to come back to. 

Why do we only find fossils of extinction things? 
We don't, that's a misconception,  we find lots of things the same as lives now 
Actually we find incredible amounts of stasis in the fossils record. 
Evolutionists call this evolutionary stasis and pretend that explains it away. 

God could protect Adam and Eve from injury before the fall.  He prevented the Israelites' sandles from wearing out for 40 years.