FamTeam Update

[socalrules]

Making a home movie is not a "mission". Veering off into crazy speculation here. Is it possible that they have been convinced that God is talking to Daddy and that is why the movie has to be perfect, therefore, numerous retakes? Maybe the movie will then be released and change the world per God's Word? Or maybe Daddy has a secret deal with some Hollywood studio and this is their way to fame and fortune? I refuse to believe that the younger Arndts are ok with making a neverending movie that does not appear to have an ending without some weird reason that seems logical. There has to be a backstory being used to keep everyone excited about making this movie. 

[MatthewDuggar]

1 hour ago, socalrules said:

Making a home movie is not a "mission". Veering off into crazy speculation here. Is it possible that they have been convinced that God is talking to Daddy and that is why the movie has to be perfect, therefore, numerous retakes? Maybe the movie will then be released and change the world per God's Word? Or maybe Daddy has a secret deal with some Hollywood studio and this is their way to fame and fortune? I refuse to believe that the younger Arndts are ok with making a neverending movie that does not appear to have an ending without some weird reason that seems logical. There has to be a backstory being used to keep everyone excited about making this movie. 

I seriously think Rick's convinced that it's a calling from God.  

The fact that a family member has to be prayed over and anointed when they are about to help with an amateur movie project just screams bizarre even for them.

I'd give anything to hear Cathy's take on the whole thing.  She often has glimmers of lucidity and common sense when the others do not.  Notice that all she's doing is playing a role in the film and does not appear to be helping one bit with the massive editing effort. Then again, she seems to be running the household, so how cold she?

Rick's main portal to God seems to be driving around in the car.  

Also, it seems like they no longer go the the YMCA "Center" and they are doing workouts at home.  Paul used to work there year ago.  I wonder what happened.

[Mary C Doates]

1 hour ago, libriatrix said:

Laying on of hands in evangelical circles usually means people crowding around someone, reaching out and touching some part of them (shoulder, back, head) and having a group prayer for that person. 

I always think of Geoff Botkin laying hands on his newborn daughter's ovaries, praying for a multitude of descendants. We all know how well that worked. 

[Jana814]

20 minutes ago, Mary C Doates said:

I always think of Geoff Botkin laying hands on his newborn daughter's ovaries, praying for a multitude of descendants. We all know how well that worked. 

He did that? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 hour ago, socalrules said:

Making a home movie is not a "mission". Veering off into crazy speculation here. Is it possible that they have been convinced that God is talking to Daddy and that is why the movie has to be perfect, therefore, numerous retakes? Maybe the movie will then be released and change the world per God's Word? Or maybe Daddy has a secret deal with some Hollywood studio and this is their way to fame and fortune? I refuse to believe that the younger Arndts are ok with making a neverending movie that does not appear to have an ending without some weird reason that seems logical. There has to be a backstory being used to keep everyone excited about making this movie. 

Vine Valley is to Rick what the Arc was to Noah - that's plausible.

Honestly his Safe at Home ramblings seem more like those of a self proclaimed holy man/prophet than just a religious person teaching.  

Would all of them have drank that much kool-aid, though?  How many large families where all the kids end up keeping the same religion in which they were raised?  Very few families are batting 1000 on that (baseball reference, see what I did there?) and that's with mainstream faiths.  

As long as we're in the crazy speculation train...could there be real money they are holding over their heads?  Just be good and keep the party line a little while longer and you'lol get your share?  It would need to be a serious fortune for it to be worth it to so many.

Or crazy theory #2 some kind of shunning deal?  Where they know if they leave they'd be persona non-grata to their siblings and parents?  So if they strike out they are not only risking the wrath of their folks, but the loss of contact with everyone.

I think once one breaks away we need to start a pool on when the others follow...it will be fast once they have some outside support and a brothers couch to crash on while they get on their own.  i think it will happen one of two ways.  One leaves on his own because he met someone and with support and desire to be with her comes bravery or it will be a block of 2-3 together.  I don't see one taking off alone to live by themselves - too risky.

 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I seriously think Rick's convinced that it's a calling from God.  

The fact that a family member has to be prayed over and anointed when they are about to help with an amateur movie project just screams bizarre even for them.

I'd give anything to hear Cathy's take on the whole thing.  She often has glimmers of lucidity and common sense when the others do not.  Notice that all she's doing is playing a role in the film and does not appear to be helping one bit with the massive editing effort. Then again, she seems to be running the household, so how cold she?

Rick's main portal to God seems to be driving around in the car.  

Also, it seems like they no longer go the the YMCA "Center" and they are doing workouts at home.  Paul used to work there year ago.  I wonder what happened.

Paul worked at the Y?  Doing what?

I don't think we'd learn much from Cathy's take since I honestly believe she's the puppeteer in that this and will humor whatever dumbass notion Rick has as long as everyone stays right where she tells them.  There is something very calculating about her.

I have no doubt Rick believes every word of the weirdness he spouts - no question in my mind that he is sincere.  Mores the pity because he needs someone to tell him he needs help and not humor this.  She knows exactly what she's doing and tbh she scares me.  A lot.  Whatever is going on there she's driving it, I'd put money on it.

[Mary C Doates]

1 hour ago, Jana814 said:

He did that? 

He did indeed:

https://books.google.com/books?id=WhhCQY_7sogC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=botkin+prayed+over+daughter&source=bl&ots=6oVYhcc54T&sig=u8gohX9mk7crw-kCvLubYd1YEcU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5k_fqtrfKAhVGGh4KHVZWD8sQ6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=botkin prayed over daughter&f=false

from Kathryn Joyce Quiverfull

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

<snip>I don't think we'd learn much from Cathy's take since I honestly believe she's the puppeteer in that this and will humor whatever dumbass notion Rick has as long as everyone stays right where she tells them.  There is something very calculating about her.

I have no doubt Rick believes every word of the weirdness he spouts - no question in my mind that he is sincere.  Mores the pity because he needs someone to tell him he needs help and not humor this.  She knows exactly what she's doing and tbh she scares me.  A lot.  Whatever is going on there she's driving it, I'd put money on it.

I always thought that Cathy was the one who wore the shorts pants in the family.   I can't help but think that whatever voodoo is being cast over the manboys that's keeping all of them at home, she is the one more behind it than Rick. 

 

[gustava]

10 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I always thought that Cathy was the one who wore the shorts pants in the family.   I can't help but think that whatever voodoo is being cast over the manboys that's keeping all of them at home, she is the one more behind it than Rick. 

+1

[HermioneSparrow]

11 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I always thought that Cathy was the one who wore the shorts pants in the family.   I can't help but think that whatever voodoo is being cast over the manboys that's keeping all of them at home, she is the one more behind it than Rick. 

 

She creeps me out. When I first heard of the Arndts, I got a weird vibe of her... Psychopath kind of vibe.

[MatthewDuggar]

13 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

...

 

 

Paul worked at the Y?  Doing what?

...

Based on Rick's diary entries he wiped off equipment and generally helped out.  At the time they seemed to go there almost daily and at one point they were trying to set up a "women's group" that Cathy led.  That lasted a very brief period of time.  Then they were "praying about" having their "Father's House" church services there in one of the community rooms.  I don't think that ever happened.

[JillsFlowerHeadband]

13 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Vine Valley is to Rick what the Arc was to Noah - that's plausible.

Honestly his Safe at Home ramblings seem more like those of a self proclaimed holy man/prophet than just a religious person teaching.  

Would all of them have drank that much kool-aid, though?  How many large families where all the kids end up keeping the same religion in which they were raised?  Very few families are batting 1000 on that (baseball reference, see what I did there?) and that's with mainstream faiths.  

As long as we're in the crazy speculation train...could there be real money they are holding over their heads?  Just be good and keep the party line a little while longer and you'lol get your share?  It would need to be a serious fortune for it to be worth it to so many.

Or crazy theory #2 some kind of shunning deal?  Where they know if they leave they'd be persona non-grata to their siblings and parents?  So if they strike out they are not only risking the wrath of their folks, but the loss of contact with everyone.

I think once one breaks away we need to start a pool on when the others follow...it will be fast once they have some outside support and a brothers couch to crash on while they get on their own.  i think it will happen one of two ways.  One leaves on his own because he met someone and with support and desire to be with her comes bravery or it will be a block of 2-3 together.  I don't see one taking off alone to live by themselves - too risky.

 

 

 

 

Paul worked at the Y?  Doing what?

I don't think we'd learn much from Cathy's take since I honestly believe she's the puppeteer in that this and will humor whatever dumbass notion Rick has as long as everyone stays right where she tells them.  There is something very calculating about her.

I have no doubt Rick believes every word of the weirdness he spouts - no question in my mind that he is sincere.  Mores the pity because he needs someone to tell him he needs help and not humor this.  She knows exactly what she's doing and tbh she scares me.  A lot.  Whatever is going on there she's driving it, I'd put money on it.

As I've mentioned before, Cathy Arndt reminds me of the first (now ex) Mr JFH's mother in so many ways and I totally believe that she has full control of everyone and everything in that home. I feel badly for the manboys because they don't seem to stand a chance. 

[nokidsmom]

5 minutes ago, JillsFlowerHeadband said:

As I've mentioned before, Cathy Arndt reminds me of the first (now ex) Mr JFH's mother in so many ways and I totally believe that she has full control of everyone and everything in that home. I feel badly for the manboys because they don't seem to stand a chance. 

I suspect that Cathy has trained everyone in the household, including Rick, to do what she wants.   Rick as "leader of the household" is only a figurehead even if he really believes in his own mind that he's in charge.  

In spite of the friendly front the family presents, there's got to be some turmoil or conflict behind the scenes. Manboys getting antsy?  Cathy going off like a stick of dynamite if she doesn't get her way?  Threats of being cut off if they leave the safe family compound to go out into wide ebil world because it's seen as rejecting the family?  Who knows.  But it's not normal and I can't see a household consisting of 13 sons, most of them adults who haven't dated, married or left the home on their own as being all sunshine and penguins.  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I suspect that Cathy has trained everyone in the household, including Rick, to do what she wants.   Rick as "leader of the household" is only a figurehead even if he really believes in his own mind that he's in charge.  

In spite of the friendly front the family presents, there's got to be some turmoil or conflict behind the scenes. Manboys getting antsy?  Cathy going off like a stick of dynamite if she doesn't get her way?  Threats of being cut off if they leave the safe family compound to go out into wide ebil world because it's seen as rejecting the family?  Who knows.  But it's not normal and I can't see a household consisting of 13 sons, most of them adults who haven't dated, married or left the home on their own as being all sunshine and penguins.  

Tbf we know very little about their personal lives when it comes to dating.  The FamTeam series is old (and heavily edited so not putting out anything they don't expressly want out there) and Rick's diary.

They could be dating or have relationships without Rick or Cathy having any idea.  They have freedom to travel and there is no way their parents can police their email and stuff the way the more cloistered fundies can.  For all we know some have moved out and Rick is still presenting it as everyone being home because they kept their room for them and they all had to leave a mitt there so technically they were still "safe at home."  

If they are still all living at home (likely) it's clear they are, in some ways, in a state of prolonged adolescence.  Like other adolescents they could have had many experiences that would horrify their parents, but were smart enough not to talk about at the family table.  Even more considering they've remained teenagers in a sense a lot longer than most of us.

I'm not saying they are all out catting around - but I'd be shocked if some of them haven't dated and had relationships of some sort.  

I find that more believable than the idea that they are all awaiting their first dinner and a movie and a kiss goodnight.  __________________________________________________________________________

Editing because I'm wondering if this is less weird than we think?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-long-is-too-long-to-live-at-home-2013-08-13

http://www.forbes.com/sites/trulia/2013/07/23/kids-arent-moving-out-yet/#2715e4857a0b6504a2506eb1

Average age where most people think it's fine for adult kids to live at home is 5 years after college.  Even if you do the 4 year plan with no delays that's 27 for most people.

And in 2013 > 31% of people 18-34 were living at home and it was rising.  This delay in young adults starting their own households is significant enough in the last several years to have affected the market for new housing.  

And while it's easy to lump them together, in a normal family would anything think it's weird for the late teens - early-mid 20's to still be home?  If your parents don't mind and in a normal environment where you can build your career and save some money by staying home why not?

So for me the weirdness is that no one of the nearing and over 30 have made the leap, even if they ended up coming back.  In their type of families I'd expect to see a zillion grandkids and counting by now.

The creep factor for me, which I can't explain away no matter how much I try, is the lack of individuality.

Sure, a lot of guys love baseball.  How many love it that much to continue into adulthood in a time consuming league and none of them wanted to play another sport or just focus on something else?  They ALL have the same favorite activity and surprise it's the same one which consumes Rick.

They ALL wanted to be their weird amalgam of court reports/wedding photographers/and computer repair.  All of them chose those very disjointed things as their life's work of their own volition?  

They ALL want to travel as a family, they ALL want to live at home, they ALL have the exact same religious beliefs as their parents.

No variation, no distinction...like well programmed action figures.  

 

 

 

 

[nokidsmom]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Tbf we know very little about their personal lives when it comes to dating.  The FamTeam series is old (and heavily edited so not putting out anything they don't expressly want out there) and Rick's diary.

They could be dating or have relationships without Rick or Cathy having any idea.  They have freedom to travel and there is no way their parents can police their email and stuff the way the more cloistered fundies can.  For all we know some have moved out and Rick is still presenting it as everyone being home because they kept their room for them and they all had to leave a mitt there so technically they were still "safe at home."  

If they are still all living at home (likely) it's clear they are, in some ways, in a state of prolonged adolescence.  Like other adolescents they could have had many experiences that would horrify their parents, but were smart enough not to talk about at the family table.  Even more considering they've remained teenagers in a sense a lot longer than most of us.

I'm not saying they are all out catting around - but I'd be shocked if some of them haven't dated and had relationships of some sort.  

I find that more believable than the idea that they are all awaiting their first dinner and a movie and a kiss goodnight.  

I hear you and agree that we know very little about their personal lives other than what Rick puts out there.  There easily could be a lot that we don't know and the manboys could be discreetly living different lives, perhaps with their parents' knowledge, perhaps not.  Traveling would give them a lot of freedom to do things without parents' knowledge and while I would be surprised that none of them haven't met someone that they like, and maybe actually had a date, at the same time, the family operates so much as a group that I suspect there's no real "emotional" privacy.  The family seems to operate that everything in their lives is up for family discussion.  This might be appropriate for young kids to some extent but not for adults.  Even adults still living at home, should have some emotional privacy with regards to dating, relationships, etc. .I don't think they have that and furthermore I get the vibe that manboys see nothing wrong with talking about penguins, or how God will send them their future wife with no effort on their parts, something that is rather odd for men their age..  While the manboys seem very nice, I don't think the weirdness is fake. 

As you say, they seem to be in a state of extended adolescence and particularly for the older manboys, it's going to be very jarring to most women to see that in a grown man in his 30s.  I am not sure most women would go the distance with a manboy plus there's the Cathy factor.   I think any manboy who does get married, his wife will have to battle with Cathy was I doubt she will relinquish what she sees as first place in the manboy's heart. 

[Elegant Mess]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Tbf we know very little about their personal lives when it comes to dating.  The FamTeam series is old (and heavily edited so not putting out anything they don't expressly want out there) and Rick's diary.

They could be dating or have relationships without Rick or Cathy having any idea.  They have freedom to travel and there is no way their parents can police their email and stuff the way the more cloistered fundies can.  For all we know some have moved out and Rick is still presenting it as everyone being home because they kept their room for them and they all had to leave a mitt there so technically they were still "safe at home."  

If they are still all living at home (likely) it's clear they are, in some ways, in a state of prolonged adolescence.  Like other adolescents they could have had many experiences that would horrify their parents, but were smart enough not to talk about at the family table.  Even more considering they've remained teenagers in a sense a lot longer than most of us.

I will agree that we really only know of the family what they present through their websites and videos.

What is strange to me, though, is that they aren't trotting out any sort of dating/courting/homebuying/new-business-venturing news on their website or newsletters to show that the "arrows are taking flight" and are doing well thanks to the Arndt way of raising children.  We see none of that.  As a matter of fact, there is even less information on the website now than there used to be (the manboy's ages, for instance).  You'd think they would want to mitigate the increasingly creepy vibe they give off if they want their ministry to be successful.   

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, nokidsmom said:

 I am not sure most women would go the distance with a manboy plus there's the Cathy factor.   I think any manboy who does get married, his wife will have to battle with Cathy was I doubt she will relinquish what she sees as first place in the manboy's heart. 

ITA - but a lot of people marry and have no idea how big a pita their inlaws are going to be until after.  Not that I have personal experience with this, or anything.  

I think the guys will struggle with women their own age, who have been living as adults, but I think a lot of stuff would not red flag for younger women with less experience who just assume age = maturity.  

[MatthewDuggar]

11 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

 The family seems to operate that everything in their lives is up for family discussion.  This might be appropriate for young kids to some extent but not for adults.  Even adults still living at home, should have some emotional privacy with regards to dating, relationships, etc. 

This is the most creepy thing.  I know that "Safe At Home" is the name of their baseball team, but is there more to it?  I wonder what the backstory is.

[nokidsmom]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

ITA - but a lot of people marry and have no idea how big a pita their inlaws are going to be until after.  Not that I have personal experience with this, or anything.  

I think the guys will struggle with women their own age, who have been living as adults, but I think a lot of stuff would not red flag for younger women with less experience who just assume age = maturity.  

Quite true about realizing about in-laws till it's too late, personally experienced it too, fortunately boundaries have worked..  And possible that any future wife could be so taken with marrying into such a nice Christian family only to find out there's some "issues" afterward. 

Agree that the manboys will most likely have trouble with women their own age but younger women might not figure things out.  

[nokidsmom]

30 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

This is the most creepy thing.  I know that "Safe At Home" is the name of their baseball team, but is there more to it?  I wonder what the backstory is.

Considering that there's 14 children still at home, most of whom are now adults and the oldest one pushing toward 40, I think it's a pretty safe bet there's more to it.    Even if you discount the "parents who cannot let go of their kids" factor, the older ones are supporting the household, neither able bodied parent works and Rick "retired" some years ago.   The entire family is given over to working on one parent's "eternal project" aka Vine Valley which has been in the works for years.   The parents are reliant on the kids economically, to keep up the household tasks and repairs and earn money, and as film crew on their dad's project at a time when a few of them should be out forging their own lives.   

ETA: I personally think the chidults, including Wizzy, are their parents' retirement plan. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

This is the most creepy thing.  I know that "Safe At Home" is the name of their baseball team, but is there more to it?  I wonder what the backstory is.

One of the famteam episodes includes Jude filming Rick in a canoe talking about the Safe at Home series and how they'd been working on it for a while but were never able to make progress at home.  I'll see if I can find the clip.

or maybe Rick explains it in the first Safe at Home episode?  Idk but would make sense...not sure I can check that one since those have some kind of sedative effect for me.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Found the clip but no info.  

[MatthewDuggar]

20 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

One of the famteam episodes includes Jude filming Rick in a canoe talking about the Safe at Home series and how they'd been working on it for a while but were never able to make progress at home.  I'll see if I can find the clip.

or maybe Rick explains it in the first Safe at Home episode?  Idk but would make sense...not sure I can check that one since those have some kind of sedative effect for me.

I think I tried to watch that one and didn't quite make it through.

I have not watched the vids in a while, I may do that tonight myself.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, MatthewDuggar said:

I think I tried to watch that one and didn't quite make it through.

I have not watched the vids in a while, I may do that tonight myself.

It's the one where Mark and Luke spearhead the inexcusable joke of the dead penguins on the little boys.  Outer Pranks.

That is one of the biggest wtfs of all.  For all the niceness they project that was a mix of mean and stupid you don't see everyday.

 

[JenniferJuniper]

24 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

It's the one where Mark and Luke spearhead the inexcusable joke of the dead penguins on the little boys.  Outer Pranks.

That is one of the biggest wtfs of all.  For all the niceness they project that was a mix of mean and stupid you don't see everyday.

 

I thought it was a bad sign too.

Yes, the kids weren't super-little, but they were clearly very emotionally attached to the penguins and the brothers knew this yet they very deliberately tormented them.  One little guy was sort of amused when he figured out what was going on, but another and I think Wizzie were horrified and devastated.

Rick would have us believe that all is non-stop peace and harmony in the FamTeam household.  That little vignette gives us a glimpse into a different dynamic.  What grown-ass man even bothers to think up complicated shit like that to torment little kids? Boredom?  Frustration?  Resentment?

Part of me hopes at this point that the manboys do not ever have their own children.  I don't think they are emotionally equipped for parenthood.  

 

   

[HerNameIsBuffy]

57 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I thought it was a bad sign too.

Yes, the kids weren't super-little, but they were clearly very emotionally attached to the penguins and the brothers knew this yet they very deliberately tormented them.  One little guy was sort of amused when he figured out what was going on, but another and I think Wizzie were horrified and devastated.

Rick would have us believe that all is non-stop peace and harmony in the FamTeam household.  That little vignette gives us a glimpse into a different dynamic.  What grown-ass man even bothers to think up complicated shit like that to torment little kids? Boredom?  Frustration?  Resentment?

Part of me hopes at this point that the manboys do not ever have their own children.  I don't think they are emotionally equipped for parenthood.  

 

   

There are other glimpses of the teasing having a nasty edge to it.  Luke breathing Jacob in a jk not really way before his drivers test.  The Jude vs Phillip ping pong thing where everyone was so pro Jude and mocking Phillip.  It could be me because I can be touchy sometimes but it seems that some of the teasing is good natured some of it just seems straight up passive aggressive.  

Also the needling of Nathan before his first at bat about not breaking the streak.  This insecurity was coming off this kid in waves - it was visible - and even Cathy was all look at all the pressure he's under, isn't that cute.  The fuck?  The way you parent is to reassure your kid that as long as they do their best that's what matters and try to be reassuring that it's not a bfd in the grande scheme of things.  Kids will still put unrreasonable pressure on themselves but as a parent you try to help them keep perspective.

Something just occurred to me - anyone else surprised Cathy hasn't tried to jump on the marketing bandwagon a la the Maxwells with books about her family, organizing a large household, homeschooling tips, etc?  You'd think she'd have quite the cottage industry and the media coverage they've had could only help.