Real Life Fundie Encounters - Part 3

[MamaJunebug]

Not face-to-face -- but two young women in ankle-length cotton dresses and wearing starched kapps were just televised strolling through the St. Louis Home Show.  One was pushing a jogging-quality stroller; and a boy of about 8 or 9 years was walking with them. Not sure when the tape was shot, as there were very, very few shoppers. Maybe they were with a booth & taking the opportunity to browse the rest of the show.  I'm so far from a show-type shopper! Otherwise I'd go and report back.  

[clueliss]

Based on the St. Louis location - I'm going to guess they were there with spouses etc and from Amish/Mennonite territory here in Missouri.  I know people who buy "Amish" furniture and the like here in Mid-Missouri and I think there's a furniture store of that type in Mexico, MO.

[Joyfully Available]

Hi all! New to the forum. I've been a long time lurker and enjoy reading so many of the topics here. Thanks for all the entertainment over the last couple years.

I've been debating about posting for quite some time. I don't have anyone to discuss my ongoing daily fundie encounters with so I finally decided what better place to share than FJ.

To start, I've been working with someone I believe is full fledged fundie headship. We've been in a power struggle for years in our small office! For a little background I live in WV near Charleston and I'm not aware of too many fundie families in this area but maybe some of the users here could enlighten. Let me present my facts:

1. When I first met him he was living the homestead lifestyle complete with livestock, gardening, & various "off the grid" behaviors. I find it curious though that he recently gave up all his livestock and quickly switched to a vegetarian lifestyle. He also loves the Amish.

2. Married with 4 adult children living at home. He appears to have total control. Two boys and two SAHD all over the age of 18. When I encountered them in our local Wal-Mart, they were walking in a single file line with him leading (of course) followed by his wife and children from oldest to youngest. They were instructed to keep their eyes down.

3. He drives a 15 passenger van. I still have not discovered where or if he is attending a local church. (I'm not sure why I'm even speculating whether or not he's fundie. LOL)

4. The entire family wears the typical fundie dress. Long denim skirts, thrift outfits, no makeup, no stylish hair cuts, etc. Basically anything that might make is daughters feel pretty or smell nice is strictly forbidden. To add to this point he once told us at work that he doesn't shower daily. Only on Saturdays and we can tell. He claims it's good for your immune system. He also added that they do not use toilet paper at home. Each member has a personal rag. (  )

5. They have ties to Florida. Wasn't there a Gothard base in Florida???

6. Homeschoolers .

7. He has started taping Bible verses to his computer monitor after dealing the female owners of the business. (My family owns the business and we are heavily dominated by women. I'm one of the younger women and not a major boss yet but in training.) He frequently tries to control or stir up drama for the women here. I've noticed he is systematically trying to remove all of us from our office. I finally confronted him the week before Christmas. He was incredibly smug and arrogant. It's not been easy for him to hide the fact that he does not agree with women working outside the home or being anything other than subordinate. At this point we do not speak. It's a shame because he does have a gift with numbers and is a good worker but his personal beliefs are obviously hard for him to leave at home. I've would never ever ask about his personal beliefs or bring them up but I think he knows that I know what kind of crap he's pushing.

At this point, I'm an evil pant wearing woman, with no children, working outside the home and I have questioned his authority.  I think he is passively aggressively trying to get back at me by going to the bathroom (#2) numerous times a day and leaving the door open. I sit right across the hall from the office bathroom  and he refuses to turn on the fan, spray, use poo pourri  or crack the window. Sometimes he won't even flush. The man is literally shitting on me.  

Does anyone know of a Rodgers family in WV? (I hope I can reveal a last name.) I'm trying not to give too much specific personal information.

 

[catlady]

1 hour ago, Joyfully Available said:

Hi all! New to the forum. I've been a long time lurker and enjoy reading so many of the topics here. Thanks for all the entertainment over the last couple years.

 

7. He has started taping Bible verses to his computer monitor after dealing the female owners of the business. (My family owns the business and we are heavily dominated by women. I'm one of the younger women and not a major boss yet but in training.) He frequently tries to control or stir up drama for the women here. I've noticed he is systematically trying to remove all of us from our office. I finally confronted him the week before Christmas. He was incredibly smug and arrogant. It's not been easy for him to hide the fact that he does not agree with women working outside the home or being anything other than subordinate. At this point we do not speak. It's a shame because he does have a gift with numbers and is a good worker but his personal beliefs are obviously hard for him to leave at home. I've would never ever ask about his personal beliefs or bring them up but I think he knows that I know what kind of crap he's pushing.

At this point, I'm an evil pant wearing woman, with no children, working outside the home and I have questioned his authority.  I think he is passively aggressively trying to get back at me by going to the bathroom (#2) numerous times a day and leaving the door open. I sit right across the hall from the office bathroom  and he refuses to turn on the fan, spray, use poo pourri  or crack the window. Sometimes he won't even flush. The man is literally shitting on me.  

 

 

JA, what he's doing is creating a hostile work environment.  does the company really need his services so badly that they're willing to put up with him?  my employer would have terminated him by now.

[Joyfully Available]

34 minutes ago, catlady said:

JA, what he's doing is creating a hostile work environment.  does the company really need his services so badly that they're willing to put up with him?  my employer would have terminated him by now.

Unfortunately yes. We need him that badly & he knows it. I think that's what might be making him so smug. 

We live in a very rural area with few options. As much as I can't stand him, he is very good at what he does. The field we are in is experiencing some turbulent times & the businesses is experiencing changes from various retirements. 

It's owned by three partners 2 women & one man. One of the women has already retired, the other works in a totally separate building (they have duked it out before and she's totally aware of his behavior and is appalled) the final parter is a man & thinks he's too talented to get rid of. He has suggested we just deal with him. 

I have stories for days but just hit the highlights. It's upsetting. 

[anachronistic]

JA, that sounds awful and I'm sorry you have to deal with it. If you can't put a 'womens' sign on the restroom maybe decorate it a bit with feminist signs, symbols, posters of what abuse, cults, etc are? And if he goes and leaves the door open - EW! - shut it for him, very loudly, while practically shouting, "HISNAME, you forgot to shut the door again! I have no desire to see your minuscule weenie!"

Also, if you're looking to fill his position, try the local or state vocational rehabilitation office. There are tons of really talented people with disabilities who need jobs and are eager to learn. Autistics (though not me, sadly) are often great at numbers and, unlike this douche, can be taught social skills. You may even get tax credits if you hire a disabled person.

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 3/13/2017 at 1:23 PM, Joyfully Available said:

Unfortunately yes. We need him that badly & he knows it. I think that's what might be making him so smug. 

We live in a very rural area with few options. As much as I can't stand him, he is very good at what he does. The field we are in is experiencing some turbulent times & the businesses is experiencing changes from various retirements. 

It's owned by three partners 2 women & one man. One of the women has already retired, the other works in a totally separate building (they have duked it out before and she's totally aware of his behavior and is appalled) the final parter is a man & thinks he's too talented to get rid of. He has suggested we just deal with him. 

I have stories for days but just hit the highlights. It's upsetting. 

Jill Noyes Rodrigues is from WV. I'm thinking she might not be that far from Charleston. She seems to have fundie friends in her area. So you may have more fundies around that you know. They may just be pants wearing and normal looking from the outside. 

[FeministShrew]

Mr. Shrew had a fundie encounter today. He grew up in liberal areas with a liberal single mom & has no experience with fundies, so he was pretty excited to tell me about.

He works at a grocery store deli. Two teenage girls (like high-school age) came to the counter & he asked them several times if he could help them, but they ignored him. After a few minutes he asked if they'd made their selection (he can get in trouble for not asking) and one of the girls, still not looking at him, said "We're not allowed to speak to strangers." The parents walk up, the girls whisper to their dad, and he says to Mr. Shrew, "I want  x & they want y." The mom kept her eyes down & never said anything.

He said the dad was dressed in a 3 piece suit, very short hair cut & clean-shaven. The mom was wearing an ankle-length dress & teased 80s hair, no jewelry except a wedding ring, no make-up. The girls were both  wearing ankle-length dresses, no make-up, and their hair looked like it had never been cut.
His store is in an area that's pretty low-income but also near a major IFB church, but he usually doesn't get fundies (except students from a local conservative Bible college, & they don't really act fundie).

[Hmmm_idolatry]

I grew up in the most heathen place on earth, California.  I now live in Iowa.  When I first moved here, I nearly crashed my car because I was so shocked by seeing a passing Amish buggy that I wasn't watching the road.  It was very exciting.  I had only ever seen the Amish in TV movies.  I found out where they lived, and long story short, whenever my parents visit me from California, we usually have a day where we follow buggies around (yes, we are horrible people) and visit their bakery and furniture store.  

In addition to the Amish, there is also a church and (I guess you'd call it a college) college for fundies nearby.  It's called Bible Missionary Institute.  Doesn't sound too fundy, but all the women who are affiliated with the school and church wear the long denim skirts and only wear their hair in a bun. Years ago, I went with my mother in law to the Curves gym she used to visit, and one of the fundies came in to work out.  Yep, in her denim skirt, and with a baby and toddler in tow.  I was absolutely fascinated.  I couldn't believe she would work out in that ridiculous skirt, and I was also kind of surprised she'd join a gym at all.  She seemed very, very young to me.  She was probably all of 22.  It made me very sad for her.  When I was 22, I was being a godless heathen at frat parties and showing up to my college classes reeking of booze.  

Before moving to Iowa, the only fundies I had ever seen (and I guess they are indeed fundies) were Orthodox Jews in LA.  I used to love to eat at a Kosher Chinese place called Genghis Cohen when I lived in LA.  I don't recall ever seeing Christian fundies until I moved to the middle. 

[MarblesMom]

Wow, Bible MIssionary Institute has no web presence, but apparently is an UNaccredited college:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Missionary_Church

Splitting off from the Nazarenes must have been a big deal, as the Nazarene Church I attended in the late 70s was SUPER fundy. 

[anniebgood]

A little around the side topic, since Passover is coming up, the stores are getting their designated shelves done. The Ralphs' I shop at had an item I've never seen before-- Kosher Golden Duck Sauce, along with big boxes  Israeli matzohs that say on the side, support Israel, buy our matzohs. I wish they still made Passover CocaCola. I can buy Mexican Coke, but I loved the 2L bottles with the yellow caps. 

We have a Jewish Community Center about 1 mile from us and on Friday nights there are 2 guys that walk from down our street over there. Saturdays I see the nannies pushing the baby carts while Mom in proper Sabbath attire and Dad wrangle the younger walkers. It was started by Chabad and has grown. During High Holy Days and Passover there is a police car parked in front to deter idiots. 

[Howl]

On 3/19/2017 at 5:30 PM, Hmmm_idolatry said:

 I used to love to eat at a Kosher Chinese place called Genghis Cohen when I lived in LA.

I'm liking this 1,000,000 times! 

[MamaJunebug]

On the Missouri side, I'm waiting at a traffic light on a four-lane and a big blue banner, stretched across a church building, catches my eye: 

FAMILY-INTEGRATED CHURCH

(2nd line had their website) 

 

I pass that way a lot and I know the sign is  new. Nice-ish neighborhood, church has been there for years. Oy boy. 

Edited March 22, 2017 by MamaJunebug

[clueliss]

Two Mennonite teen girls and their mother at Walmart C where I live.  I usually go to Walmart G.  But this morning did something else first and didn't want to drive to G so went to C and went later than I typically do.  Long skirts, plain tennis shoes, cardigans and the telltale gauzy kapp.  The attire told me that it was Mennonite and not Amish.  We have both in the general area.  

[Hmmm_idolatry]

On 3/19/2017 at 10:42 PM, MarblesMom said:

Wow, Bible MIssionary Institute has no web presence, but apparently is an UNaccredited college:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Missionary_Church

Splitting off from the Nazarenes must have been a big deal, as the Nazarene Church I attended in the late 70s was SUPER fundy. 

Yep.  That's the one!  I should clarify, it's actually in Illinois, not Iowa.  I live on the border of the two states in a place called the Quad Cities.  Even though there are four towns, with two in IA and two in IL, it is basically the same town since they all run together and are connected by bridges.  

There is a church near the school where the women also wear the skirts and the buns in their hair, and there is a church with the same dress requirements on the IA side of town.  I have some friends whose grandparents are quite wealthy.  They would hire young women from this school to work as housekeepers and Shabbos goy for holiday dinners.  Shabbos goy are non-Jewish people who "work" on the sabbath by helping with cooking for Jewish families.  It always used to make me giggle when I would see them opening wine bottles in the kitchen.  I'm sure they were praying for us heathens who were going straight to hell for drinking the Devil's brew. 

On 3/21/2017 at 8:44 AM, Howl said:

I'm liking this 1,000,000 times! 

If you're ever in LA, you need to go there.  They used to have karaoke nights.  I never made to it a karaoke night, but I've heard they are a lot of fun.  

[anniebgood]

On 3/21/2017 at 6:44 AM, Howl said:

I'm liking this 1,000,000 times! 

genghis cohen 740 N Fairfax LA 90046 4.5 stars review. Might drive up there and try it sometime. 

[feministxtian]

13 hours ago, anniebgood said:

genghis cohen 740 N Fairfax LA 90046 4.5 stars review. Might drive up there and try it sometime. 

Genghis Cohen was a barbarian in Terry Pratchett's books

[Iokaste]

On 13/3/2017 at 4:30 PM, Joyfully Available said:

 

2. Married with 4 adult children living at home. He appears to have total control. Two boys and two SAHD all over the age of 18. When I encountered them in our local Wal-Mart, they were walking in a single file line with him leading (of course) followed by his wife and children from oldest to youngest. They were instructed to keep their eyes down.

 

 

All of it sounds bad, but this makes me sad and scared at the same time.
Do you know if you can file a "concern report" (don't know what you'd call that in English) with your county or state or some wellfare agency?
I don't know if such an option exists in other countries, but here I can make one, if I observe concerning behaviour and it doesn't have to involve a child or a minor, increasing radicalized behaviour, an elderly person living alone and with no apparent contact to anyone or in this case I might be scared that the parents are stiffling their childrens independence in a way that  would be abusive.   
 

[HOTW]

On 23/11/2015 at 10:23 AM, sockinshoe said:

 

 

I was hanging out with a friend on campus the other day in my most fundie-approved looks: long skirt, tights, and high necked sweater. I also have long hair and wear a ring (family heirloom) on my left ring finger. Someone approached me and asked what Church I belonged to and did I know that I need school permission to proselytize on campus. It was awkward. I really like that outfit, too.

 

 

ETA: blahh that signature.

 

 

I would probably have gone "o My F'ing God I DO?!?!?!??!!? Hey geez I forgot...Im not an evangelist I just go to school here u twat"

I match your description as well except I wear long skirt so I can go commando...plus the breeze is cooler than shorts

[Howl]

On 3/13/2017 at 10:30 AM, Joyfully Available said:

To add to this point he once told us at work that he doesn't shower daily. Only on Saturdays and we can tell. He claims it's good for your immune system. He also added that they do not use toilet paper at home. Each member has a personal rag. (  )

Somewhere on FJ there is a thread that discusses The Family Cloth.  Just google "family cloth vs. toilet paper" (if you dare).  

[Joyfully Available]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:01 AM, Iokaste said:

All of it sounds bad, but this makes me sad and scared at the same time.
Do you know if you can file a "concern report" (don't know what you'd call that in English) with your county or state or some wellfare agency?
I don't know if such an option exists in other countries, but here I can make one, if I observe concerning behaviour and it doesn't have to involve a child or a minor, increasing radicalized behaviour, an elderly person living alone and with no apparent contact to anyone or in this case I might be scared that the parents are stiffling their childrens independence in a way that  would be abusive.   
 

I've definitely thought about it. However, the "children" are all over 18 and I feel like I don't have enough solid information to call. I don't want to be a busy body but I know something is strange. Typically, once someone is 18, they have the freedom to leave. Although we all know leaving an abusive situation is not that easy. 

To add to story, the wife has an advanced stage of cancer. I was never so shocked when I heard him tell a co worker that her condition had worsened and he dropped her off at the local ER and left her there over night to wait. Alone. Who does that???? I guess he couldn't be bothered? She was later in a coma like state and he came whistling into work like it was just another day. This is the second wife he's had die...

He has also refused to get health insurance so all of their doctoring comes from home remedies or the ER. I'm not sure if refusing comes from lack of funds or not wanting to use doctors but now he has no choice because you can't cure cancer with an onion wrap or Vicks Vapor Rub. 

I'm very disturbed by a lot of the things I hear and by him in general. I spend a lot of time stewing on it because none of it sits well with me. 

23 hours ago, Howl said:

Somewhere on FJ there is a thread that discusses The Family Cloth.  Just google "family cloth vs. toilet paper" (if you dare).  

I googled. I read. I cannot unsee. Ahhhh. 

[Jana814]

@Joyfully Available This guy sounds like a real piece of work.  Who leaves their sick wife at an ER alone. 

[Pammy]

7 hours ago, Jana814 said:

@Joyfully Available This guy sounds like a real piece of work.  Who leaves their sick wife at an ER alone. 

Not to excuse this specific sorry excuse for a human -- but most parents of small children don't keep their spouse company in the ER. If one is in ER, the other has to take care of the kids.

I'd much rather have my DH at home with the kids than have him *and them* at the ER with me! Of course, it would be ideal if he could sort out some childcare and free himself up, but that's not always an easy option.

[Joyfully Available]

5 minutes ago, Pammy said:

Not to excuse this specific sorry excuse for a human -- but most parents of small children don't keep their spouse company in the ER. If one is in ER, the other has to take care of the kids.

I'd much rather have my DH at home with the kids than have him *and them* at the ER with me! Of course, it would be ideal if he could sort out some childcare and free himself up, but that's not always an easy option.

I can totally understand that scenario and the reasoning there. Not everyone can grab a sitter in an emergency or have family living close by to help and you certainly can't leave them home alone. 

In this case though, he has no small children at home! All four of them are grown adults over 18 and as far as I know, none of them stayed with her either. Or were allowed to stay with her... He also has a very flexible work schedule so it would be no big deal at all to call out for a reason like that. The man has taken more time off to put up hay! 

[frugaldreams]

On 3/13/2017 at 8:30 AM, Joyfully Available said:

At this point, I'm an evil pant wearing woman, with no children, working outside the home and I have questioned his authority.  I think he is passively aggressively trying to get back at me by going to the bathroom (#2) numerous times a day and leaving the door open. I sit right across the hall from the office bathroom  and he refuses to turn on the fan, spray, use poo pourri  or crack the window. Sometimes he won't even flush. The man is literally shitting on me.  

 

Umm.... if he's leaving the door open then it's time to get in his face. Be really clear. It is not acceptable. "You will close the door and if you don't then every time you leave it open I will come and take a picture of you with my cell phone to document your sexual harassment of me. I will pursue it. And it would really suck if pictures of you wound up all over the internet exposing yourself to female employees right about the time you find yourself out of a job. I would also really suck if every time I encounter you in the community I should loudly to people in front of your family 'Watch out for that guy. He exposes himself to women all the time. He is not safe for children to be around. I have pictures to prove it'." If you can find out if he has a church he attending I would also advise him that said pictures will most definitely find their way to the pastors attention as well. 

I would also make it really clear to the partner who thinks he's too valuable to be fired that he is exposing him self to you while at work. That this constitutes sexual assault and it is not acceptable and that he needs to be disciplined for it. If the won't fire him without a replacement then they need to call him in and give him a written warning stating that he will be terminated if the behavior continues. Use the words sexual harassment and sexual assault to both of them. Don't soft sell it.

If you family owns the majority of the business then I would also actively look for a replacement. Advertise for one. Preferably where he can see the advertisement. 

Personally this is a hill I would die on. But if you aren't willing to die on that hill then you can beat him at his own passive aggressive game.  Every night or morning sabotage the toilet. Over and over and over again when no one is looking.  I would also still take the pictures, copy them and then tape them all over the office in public areas. After all, if it's acceptable behavior why should he or anyone else object? I'd talk loudly too about hypocrites that force their daughters into ridiculous clothes in the name of modesty but then expose themselves every day to women who are not their wife. A little saran wrap on that toilet wouldn't hurt either. Oh I could go on and on. 

Wow! I'm really angry for you. Can you tell I hate bullies? I wish I was there I'd burn the whole place down around his ears.