Jessa, Ben & Spurgeon - Those Smug Seewalds

[livinginthelight]

Just for the record all, Presbyterians are not created the same. There are liberal, open, welcoming Presbyterians (PCUSA) who believe in welcoming all, gay marriage, value education and higher learning,  don't claim all the answers, etc. etc., etc.  Of which I am proudly one of these.

Then there are very conservative Presbyterians (PCA) and now Presbyterians who are breaking away from the PC(USA) above to create an evangelical conservative Presbyterian faith primarily as a result of the vote on gay marriage in the PCUSA a few years ago, but there are other factors as well.

So don't lump all of us together in the conservative basket. Thanks!

What she/he said! ^

I am PCUSA also and was getting ready to post, when I saw that you took the words right out of my mouth.

Regarding the whole predestination thing, I love the words of CS Lewis in The Great Divorce: “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

 

[DuggarWatch]

Someone named "Robert Smith" (fake name) made this comment on Facebook...

Robert Smith Okay, Everyone here is speculating. Let me lay it out for you, and yes I created this account just to comment on this thread without revealing who I am. First, Jill's midwife was investigated by the state for Jill's birth and cleared. Do a freedom of information with the state you can read about it. She was not informed by Jill, she was not at her house. There was no midwife there. Jill's friend and apprentice midwife was there, she is now licensed by the state and is currently under investigation for her involvement in Jill's birth. Stay tuned on that one. She will most likely lose her license. My bet with the comments here is that Teresa Fedosky was the "midwife" involved in Jessa's birth. She is not licensed, never has been, she is not a midwife, she is not trained in anything. Her husband is a MD. The state has received several anonymous tips about her, but no one wants to file a formal complaint. Now Intouch or someone else reading this if you want to help with that go ahead. Glad they are all healthy, but unwise decisions were made. If Teresa was used then unsafe and unwise decisions were made. Believe me the state monitors this page, so post away and the leads will be followed.

----------

I am not shocked it was Teresa. Her husband is pretty shady too, if I recall.

I want to know who the first part of the comment is about...who is being investigated??

Probably Vanessa.  (See the link I posted above.)

[Fascinated]

What she/he said! ^

I am PCUSA also and was getting ready to post, when I saw that you took the words right out of my mouth.

Regarding the whole predestination thing, I love the words of CS Lewis in The Great Divorce: “There are only two kinds of people in the end: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, in the end, "Thy will be done." All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. Those who knock it is opened.”

 

As as an atheist, this quote sounds very conservative and also implies having the answers. It's all relative I suppose. I can't believe that so many here think non-believers will go to hell. But, then again, I don't really understand how people can believe in a God and heaven, either. 

[halcionne]

Someone named "Robert Smith" (fake name) made this comment on Facebook...

Robert Smith Okay, Everyone here is speculating. Let me lay it out for you, and yes I created this account just to comment on this thread without revealing who I am. First, Jill's midwife was investigated by the state for Jill's birth and cleared. Do a freedom of information with the state you can read about it. She was not informed by Jill, she was not at her house. There was no midwife there. Jill's friend and apprentice midwife was there, she is now licensed by the state and is currently under investigation for her involvement in Jill's birth. Stay tuned on that one. She will most likely lose her license. My bet with the comments here is that Teresa Fedosky was the "midwife" involved in Jessa's birth. She is not licensed, never has been, she is not a midwife, she is not trained in anything. Her husband is a MD. The state has received several anonymous tips about her, but no one wants to file a formal complaint. Now Intouch or someone else reading this if you want to help with that go ahead. Glad they are all healthy, but unwise decisions were made. If Teresa was used then unsafe and unwise decisions were made. Believe me the state monitors this page, so post away and the leads will be followed.

----------

I am not shocked it was Teresa. Her husband is pretty shady too, if I recall.

I want to know who the first part of the comment is about...who is being investigated??

I thought we saw Joy Coonfield in Jill's VSE as her midwife. I can't tell if Robert Smith's comment is referring to Coonfield, Venessa Giron--who already lost her license, so that doesn't make sense, but was Jill's instructor. Or are all of Robert Smith's charges directed at Theresa Fedosky?

[FakePigtails]

Someone named "Robert Smith" (fake name) made this comment on Facebook...

Robert Smith Okay, Everyone here is speculating. Let me lay it out for you, and yes I created this account just to comment on this thread without revealing who I am. First, Jill's midwife was investigated by the state for Jill's birth and cleared. Do a freedom of information with the state you can read about it. She was not informed by Jill, she was not at her house. There was no midwife there. Jill's friend and apprentice midwife was there, she is now licensed by the state and is currently under investigation for her involvement in Jill's birth. Stay tuned on that one. She will most likely lose her license. My bet with the comments here is that Teresa Fedosky was the "midwife" involved in Jessa's birth. She is not licensed, never has been, she is not a midwife, she is not trained in anything. Her husband is a MD. The state has received several anonymous tips about her, but no one wants to file a formal complaint. Now Intouch or someone else reading this if you want to help with that go ahead. Glad they are all healthy, but unwise decisions were made. If Teresa was used then unsafe and unwise decisions were made. Believe me the state monitors this page, so post away and the leads will be followed.

----------

I am not shocked it was Teresa. Her husband is pretty shady too, if I recall.

I want to know who the first part of the comment is about...who is being investigated??

Wow, I really hope this gets followed up on by someone. If this info is correct, it's appalling. How stupid of everyone, especially the friend who may lose her license before hardly beginning her career! Hope it was worth it, idiot!

See, this is why people tend to be skeptical of home births around here. (Apparently) Jill made one bad decision and Jessa, who presumably was given advice by Jill made another. And Jill has a CPM certification now which is the same one that most home birth midwives have (CNMs and CMs, the ones with stringent educational requirements, normally only practice in hospitals and birth centers). Was her education that lax on risks or did she manage to ignore that part of the curriculum?

Re: Anna, I recall her seeing a CNM in Maryland on the show, which was great, but I don't know what she did when back in AR.

[livinginthelight]

 

As as an atheist, this quote sounds very conservative and also implies having the answers. It's all relative I suppose. I can't believe that so many here think non-believers will go to hell. But, then again, I don't really understand how people can believe in a God and heaven, either. 

 

Maybe a snippet doesn't translate so well. I guess you have to read it in the context of the book. It's not a hellfire and brimstone thing. More a statement that people will find what they are looking for. And there is no implication that people need to say the name of Jesus to get into heaven. I personally believe that there will be many people from many faiths in heaven.

I do understand that the belief in heaven, in and of itself, can sound very conservative. But I personally am conservative in that way.

[Bad Wolf]

Jest for thedidn'tord all, Presbyterians are not created the same. There are liberal, open, welcoming Presbyterians (PCUSA) who believe in welcoming all, gay marriage, value education and higher learning,  don't claim all the answers, etc. etc., etc.  Of which I am proudly one of these.

Then there are very conservative Presbyterians (PCA) and now Presbyterians who are breaking away from the PC(USA) above to create an evangelical conservative Presbyterian faith primarily as a result of the vote on gay marriage in the PCUSA a few years ago, but there are other factors as well.

So don't lump all of us together in the conservative basket. Thanks!

No, not lumping you all together. The church we went to initially was fine, then it became more conservative and went to the evangelical conservative group. We were more comfortable across the street.

 

ETA. Sorry, didn't mean to offend anyone.

[halcionne]

Wow, I really hope this gets followed up on by someone. If this info is correct, it's appalling. How stupid of everyone, especially the friend who may lose her license before hardly beginning her career! Hope it was worth it, idiot!

See, this is why people tend to be skeptical of home births around here. (Apparently) Jill made one bad decision and Jessa, who presumably was given advice by Jill made another. And Jill has a CPM certification now which is the same one that most home birth midwives have (CNMs and CMs, the ones with stringent educational requirements, normally only practice in hospitals and birth centers). Was her education that lax on risks or did she manage to ignore that part of the curriculum?

Re: Anna, I recall her seeing a CNM in Maryland on the show, which was great, but I don't know what she did when back in AR.

Okay your comment helped me understand who Robert Smith says is being investigated and it's not anyone I mentioned above.

[nst]

Well now. What a ringing endorsement for Jill's burgeoning midwife career.

I think the fact that this midwives is throwing them under the bus is huge - because why else would she want to be associated with them.  This whole Jessa hemorrhaged but it's not our fault says a lot in my opinion, - i don' tknwo what it exactly means 

[nst]

So how will the Jessa special spin this? Do they admit that there was no midwife? I assume it would have done so had Jessa not had to go to the hospital. Do they now just skip the whole labor and show Jessa and Spruge afterwards? I wonder if they will even address it. My guess is that the actual delivery/baby will take place the last 5 minutes of the special. 

This leads into my other thought. What now? The baby has been born, named and the two specials filmed and will air. Then what? What can there possibly be to talk about now? Honestly, other than FJ, there weren't likely to be many people that cared that Jessa was pregnant or what she named her baby, no matter how hard People Magazine/TLC try to make them relevant. The Paris attacks pretty much took away what little attention Jessa got. There really is no story to tell.

So I just don't see where they go from here reality show wise. The gimmick was a big family that did things differently. Now you have several little families that do exactly what we have already seen the big family do. And as much as I love babies, they do not make for interesting TV week after weak. A baby's skills are pretty much limited to sleeping, pooping and eating. Spurge and Izzy aren't th Olson twins that can carry a show. Jessa and Jill have nothing to offer to make a show interesting. They literally do not say anything interesting or do anything interesting to sustain interest.

the special will all be about how Josh is innocent - that and how the men feel about their wives getting persecuted by the media- I doubt we will see Jessa's actual birth at this point, probably a luncheon where she claims 'she is in "labour" then we hear 911 and  the a group shot - and of course Jill going off to Guatemala with Derick - and inviting Jessa and Ben and the baby to visit her. It's going to be a boring special unless the girls throw their brother under the bus but that won't happen.  The gimmick is the title of the show AND COUNTING - get it - 19 kids and counting - now it's just AND COUNTING for two girls who like to have home births because they are cheap and want to have the experience.  

[FakePigtails]

Someone from the midwifery group wrote

This post was in no way made to slam Jill or Jessa. This statement was posted only to contradict the accusations made that A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery was the midwife at either birth. No midwives associated with A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery were a part of Jill or Jessa's births. I am in full support of a womans choice. However, the individual that attended Jessa and Ben's birth calls herself a midwife yet has had no training as a midwife. She is not licensed, she is not certified and she has been through no form of training. I think she made the right call in going to the hospital postpartum but I have personally witnessed her make very unwise decisions at a birth.

and "Rebecca Smith" added

"Robert Smith" is correct. It was indeed Teresa Fedosky who was assiting Jessa's birth. Let me say that while I think some of Jill's choices for her own birth were quite risky and even foolish, Jill did NOT and would NOT use Teresa as her "midwife." In fact, I would be very shocked if Jill approved of her sister using Teresa Fedosky. Teresa teaches a Bradley Method birthing class, and appears to know a lot, and with 7 children of her own, can seem to be an expert. She has many young couples who trust her and has developed a little following of her own. Unfortunately, her practices are very dangerous at times, as she "trusts birth" a little too much, often ignoring very obvious signs that a mother needs medical care, sometimes urgently. She is VERY LUCKY that someone has not died under her "care." The way she practices, it is only a matter of time. I am not part of A Mommy's Butterfly, nor have I used Teresa as a midwife. However, there is a community here of people who know each other or are connected through one or two degrees of separation, and I happen to know very frightening details of several births assisted by Teresa. She needs to be stopped before someone dies, and I'm sorry I have to use an alias, but she has a lot of supporters and I just don't want to deal with their wrath. I don't think anyone is going to hunt me down or anything like that, but I just know it could get ugly.

[nst]

So...my midwife trained for a while at the same place in Texas as Venessa and apparently they have met/might possibly know each other (I didn't push too hard for information because I didn't want to reveal the full extent of my fundie watching obsession )...either way, she was horrified by what she's heard about the level of risks involved with these births. Professional midwives specialize in attending normal, low risk pregnancy and delivery. In my experience, they will err on the side of caution if it becomes a questionable situation. And depending on the state, there are regulations regarding what types of births they can attend. In California, homebirth midwives can only attend birth between 37 and 42 weeks and cannot attend twin or breech births. (FTR: my midwife carries oxygen for mother and baby, can administer ABX for GBS+ patients, pitocin for post partum hemorrhage, always brings a second licensed midwife to attend births so there is one for mom and one for baby, orders all tests throughout pregnancy like gestational diabetes screen, etc. And this is pretty much standard for midwives in my region)

I really wish Jessa and Jill would come out with the real story on both of their births. I seriously cannot imagine they didn't have any kind of trained attendants at their birth. Or at least cannot wrap my head around why they would think that was a good idea. (Jill obviously had *someone* present because someone administered abx). Maybe whatever midwives did attend don't want their name associated with the Duggars...can't really blame them.

 

It's the illusion with them - as far as we know Michelle delivered all her children by herself a la Kourtney Kardashian who pulls her own children out of who ooo -

Jessa and Jill will NEVER come out with the real story of their births. It's the illusion.  They trust their mother who probably influences them to the degree that is not healthy - We will have to SEE !!! 

 Also, these girls are 22 and 24 - isn't that young to be considered high risk - despite both of their children being HUGE at birth -  - what would a regular doctor do if he thought that your baby was 9 pounds 

but that is a whole other question and thought process

How do we know that Jill didn't administer the abx?

[twinmama]

The doula at Anna's first birth was Theresa Fedosky, who has been on a few other episodes of the show. Her husband is a doctor but I'm not sure if he was there or not.

Thanks! I knew there was someone whose spouse was an actual doctor in attendance (not that medical expertise by marriage is enough!!!!).

[nst]

A comment on the A Mommy's Butterfly post struck me as something to keep an eye on. When clicking on this person's FB profile page, it says that she works for A Mommy's Butterfly. I won't post the name, but it's an open group so you'd be able to see who made it:

No wonder they only mentioned the Duggar women and Guin who attended. If someone was actually there, they're covering it up in the magazines. How are they going to cover it up if a camera crew was in there? Blur out this person's face? Only show shots of Jessa's agonized face intertwined with Michelle giving crazy eyes and Ben probably looking horrified?

Isn't a cover up the same thing that was described in one of Vyckie Garrison's horrific accounts of her giving birth? So this wouldn't at all be surprising.

ETA: I could be wrong about it being a post of Vyckie's where they talked about a cover up. It's been awhile since I read that post.

and there you have it - they will blur out the person's face -until the emt and fire department arrive - we will see i bet jessa's face and ben's face but not the blured person's face 

unless they show this lady massaging jessa's private parts - BUT WILL NEVER HAPPEN 

a cover up - pure and simple 

[twinmama]

I hate to be this way, but I do not think Josie would have survived if they did not have TLC-backed money. Josie was saved, not by Jesus, but by a very expensive team of spectacularly trained doctors and nurses. They were only able to afford those things because of TLC.

No NICU is going to let the baby die because the parents can't pay. I certainly could not afford the almost 1 million dollars of medical bills my boys racked up in their 9 week NICU stays, but they still treated them! It's called medical debt, and it's awesome 

[nst]

So does no attendants also likely mean no prenatal care for Jessa?

We knew that Jill was using Mrs Query and her trainer was her MWs.

 

These people are idiots, plain and simple.

And again, MICHELLE USED HOSPITALS,  MDS AND PROBABLY PAIN MEDS FOR MOST OF HER DELIVERIES. WHY MUST THE GIRLS BE SUBJECTED TO LOWER STANDARDS?

no - apparently they went for ultrasounds - does that count? and did bradley classes - does that not count? serious question ? 

but that doesn't mean Jessa is insane - WHAT ARE they saving the money FOR? how can one be ok with this? 

and another serious question - what would involve prenatal care? vitamins, measuring your stomach? heartbeat - because can't Jill do that ? 

my fear is that because they trust Michelle to the ninth degree (Who I AM SURE had prenatal care) 

will they they just trust anything michelle tells them about prenatal care

 

[FlamingFundie]

Someone from the midwifery group wrote

This post was in no way made to slam Jill or Jessa. This statement was posted only to contradict the accusations made that A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery was the midwife at either birth. No midwives associated with A Mommy's Butterfly Midwifery were a part of Jill or Jessa's births. I am in full support of a womans choice. However, the individual that attended Jessa and Ben's birth calls herself a midwife yet has had no training as a midwife. She is not licensed, she is not certified and she has been through no form of training. I think she made the right call in going to the hospital postpartum but I have personally witnessed her make very unwise decisions at a birth.

and "Rebecca Smith" added

"Robert Smith" is correct. It was indeed Teresa Fedosky who was assiting Jessa's birth. Let me say that while I think some of Jill's choices for her own birth were quite risky and even foolish, Jill did NOT and would NOT use Teresa as her "midwife." In fact, I would be very shocked if Jill approved of her sister using Teresa Fedosky. Teresa teaches a Bradley Method birthing class, and appears to know a lot, and with 7 children of her own, can seem to be an expert. She has many young couples who trust her and has developed a little following of her own. Unfortunately, her practices are very dangerous at times, as she "trusts birth" a little too much, often ignoring very obvious signs that a mother needs medical care, sometimes urgently. She is VERY LUCKY that someone has not died under her "care." The way she practices, it is only a matter of time. I am not part of A Mommy's Butterfly, nor have I used Teresa as a midwife. However, there is a community here of people who know each other or are connected through one or two degrees of separation, and I happen to know very frightening details of several births assisted by Teresa. She needs to be stopped before someone dies, and I'm sorry I have to use an alias, but she has a lot of supporters and I just don't want to deal with their wrath. I don't think anyone is going to hunt me down or anything like that, but I just know it could get ugly.

OH MY FUCKING GOD. There is a "midwife" in my area who this describes VERBATIM, right down to the small cult following. The only difference so far is that a baby DID die at the hands of the midwife in my area, and still nothing has been done to her...  ANd yes, the cult following of this midwife has an unreasonably scary wrath!

[ClaraOswin]

Teresa's husband lost his license for a while or something too didn't he? For writing his own prescriptions and abusing meds...?

[nst]

Sounds like maybe it was the doula who was at Anna's first birth? Wasn't she like the OB's wife or something? 

As for why the girls have to be subjected to this lack of medical care in pregnancy and birth... because it's a contest to see who can be the Best. Christian. Ever. And apparently the best Christians take unimaginably stupid risks bc god'll take care of it, or something.

With these girls going for unattended home births on their first child, I really feel like it's only a matter of time until one dies in child birth, or loses the baby during the birth. I'm slightly more comfortable with Anna free birthing since she has had relatively uncomplicated deliveries and several of them. Jill had an emergency section and Jessa hemorrhaged! Both need competent medical professionals at their next birth, whether at home (not my choice in their situations!) or in the hospital.

but if they admire their mother so much and she went to an actual hospital - then wouldn't it be ok for the girls to go ? 

seriously 

[KnittingOwl]

I fucking hate caillou. And Dora. Thankfully, my 4 year-old cousin is into peppa pig and sofia the first. My one year old niece is now into pocoyo. I can handle that.

Pocoyo is tolerable mostly because Stephen Fry narrates it. I'm not a huge Peppa fan, but it is funny that my three year old says "plaster" instead of "cast" and "holiday" instead of "vacation."

[nst]

Thanks! I knew there was someone whose spouse was an actual doctor in attendance (not that medical expertise by marriage is enough!!!!).

who is  Theresa woman- ? do we have a picture? - did she just have a luncheon with both Jill and Jessa all her kids? 

[HermioneSparrow]

Pocoyo is tolerable mostly because Stephen Fry narrates it. I'm not a huge Peppa fan, but it is funny that my three year old says "plaster" instead of "cast" and "holiday" instead of "vacation."

My niece is into Peppa, i think that pig is adorable, I have a few Peppa socks. I agree, Dora is annoying! Thank Gawd my niece watches Peppa, Sofia and Doc McStuffins and i love them all.

[lascuba]

Now you know Jessa and Jill fucked up royally when a lay midwifery practice releases a statement not only denying having had anything to do with their birth but openly criticizing their choices. If Jessa really did use Teresa as her "midwife," I'm not surprised. She's arrogant enough to believe that nothing bad could have happened to her. 

Josh getting sued, Jill and Jessa getting publicly called out on their shit by people who are supportive of homebirth...it's like Christmas. 

[ClaraOswin]

I thought we saw Joy Coonfield in Jill's VSE as her midwife. I can't tell if Robert Smith's comment is referring to Coonfield, Venessa Giron--who already lost her license, so that doesn't make sense, but was Jill's instructor. Or are all of Robert Smith's charges directed at Theresa Fedosky?

I'm not familiar with Joy Coonfield at all. Anyone able to give me a rundown on her?

[DuggarWatch]

I wonder what the execs at TLC are thinking about right now.