Leah Remini comes out against Scientology

[Jessa's Feet]

So. Yeah. I came to these forums a long time ago as a lurker solely for the Duggars. Then I finally created a profile just in case. But never lurked or ventured outside of the Duggar forums.

But then....then I did venture outside of the Duggar forums over the last month or so. It was then that I truly realized that there were so many others that shared my strangeness in wanting to know/strong desire to know about all kinds of cultish religions. I suddenly felt, I've found some of my people. Kind of joking, kind of not.

I think my mother in law is the only other person in my life that gets me about any of this.

I've been fascinated by Scientology and the dangers of for as long as I can remember. I'd say it's up there with FLDS and many others but I think it's all by itself. I was giddy to see the discussion on the boards. Though I'm late in catching up!

I often have a hard time wrapping my head around the religion because of how deep, scary, and intricate it is. Although, I do agree with a comment somewhere above me, I can see how one can become attracted to what they offer if they're lacking fundamental elements within themselves. Especially if that person is a high functioning person to boot.

It's the deeper stuff that gets me. The family withholding. The manipulation once they've gotten in.

Another thing, I've always felt absolutely heartbroken for Suri Cruise. Tom literally dropped his daughter as soon as he was given the ultimatum. Before that and when he was married to Katie, Suri was his princess. I hope that is something that haunts him. I hope that is what makes him leave. I've hoped that for a long time. Because Suri wasn't raised Scientology. His other two kids were. Which is why he never had to walk away from them. He chose to walk away from his first "biological" child he was so excited to have.

Forgive any rambling. I may have been up for the last several hours off and on reading many threads on FJ. Eyes are tired, I'm tired, but I can't turn the mind off. Therefore, FJ has been keeping me company.

[Howl]

Awesome post.  Welcome to the larger world of fundie-dom!  In reading about Scientology, I keep coming across phrases relating to "saving the wold", so I suppose that is considered the larger mission of Scientology that attracts many to follow its teachings.  

 

[DaisyD]

Welcome! I was raised agnostic/athiest and have always been fascinated by religion (I even tried to learn Hebrew in 4th grade when I had a Jewish best friend). At some point that morphed into fascination with extreme/cult beliefs. I am the only one in my circle with this strange interest so FJ allows me to interact with others that see it too. You are in good company here!

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

The CoS scares me to death.  They have a large campus in Irving/Las Colinas, TX and I often see the Sea Org people out in their uniforms at Starbucks, etc.  I have only known one person who joined CoS- a young nurse I worked with about 10 years ago.  This nurse had studied at Baylor and seemed to love being a young single professional.  She had a loft apartment, drove a BMW and took several vacations a year.  She got linked into Scientology through some self help meetup and just dove in overnight.  That was all she could talk about.  She wound up giving up her entire life/career to move to California and the last I heard she was sharing an apartment with 5 other women in the CoS.  When I went out to California to visit I tried to meet up with her for dinner but she couldn't come because she didn't have a car..... 

 

[Jessa's Feet]

On 11/9/2015 at 10:00 AM, daisyd681 said:

Welcome! I was raised agnostic/athiest and have always been fascinated by religion (I even tried to learn Hebrew in 4th grade when I had a Jewish best friend). At some point that morphed into fascination with extreme/cult beliefs. I am the only one in my circle with this strange interest so FJ allows me to interact with others that see it too. You are in good company here!

I was also fascinated by Judaism at a young age and still am. In my early 20's I was quite serious about studying conversion. I had started the process of meeting others in the community in the small college town I was living in. Then I started attending studies on the Holy Books.

For personal reasons it didn't go further than that (full conversion).

Aw, heck, truthfully? My then high school and into college boyfriend (now my husband) was a Christian. He wasn't comfortable with my choice at the time. I had several other Christian friends that gave me a lot of peer pressure as well. But honestly? It's been 10-12 years since that time period in my life and that calling is still as strong as ever.

But I think we've reached a point in our lives now that I could convert and we could live in harmony. As we've grown up at lot and have become MUCH more liberal about the sharing of religions and not forcing others into one box. Who knows. I have hope

And there's my tangent for the day.

[FundieFarmer]

I am glad you all are here. I was thrilled to find fellow cult enthusiasts! When I was studying psychology, I wanted to go into cult deprogramming. Realized it wasn't for me, but the interest was still there. Hi, y'all! 

[CallmeChaCha]

Awesome post.  Welcome to the larger world of fundie-dom!  In reading about Scientology, I keep coming across phrases relating to "saving the wold", so I suppose that is considered the larger mission of Scientology that attracts many to follow its teachings.  

 

Leah said that a few times during her interview on 20/20 (about saving the world), and I know I've heard that elsewhere. I think that's a big selling point. You're going to help make the world a better place.

Another thing Leah mentioned at least twice, when prompted by Dan (interviewer) about why she didn't leave after certain events, was that she'd been in the CoS for so long that it was all she knew and she also mentioned spending so much money trying to move up the bridge -- is that what it's called? 

The weirdest part of that interview (to me) was how Leah kept referring to the "parishioners" and even the reporter at one point referred to "church scriptures." From what I've read about the CoS, it certainly never felt like a religion. I always felt it was more like a program, like joining a gym. You go there to try to be healthier.

[Peas n carrots]

The CoS scares me to death.  They have a large campus in Irving/Las Colinas, TX and I often see the Sea Org people out in their uniforms at Starbucks, etc.  I have only known one person who joined CoS- a young nurse I worked with about 10 years ago.  This nurse had studied at Baylor and seemed to love being a young single professional.  She had a loft apartment, drove a BMW and took several vacations a year.  She got linked into Scientology through some self help meetup and just dove in overnight.  That was all she could talk about.  She wound up giving up her entire life/career to move to California and the last I heard she was sharing an apartment with 5 other women in the CoS.  When I went out to California to visit I tried to meet up with her for dinner but she couldn't come because she didn't have a car..... 

 

No way there was a CO$ office at Las Colinas? I used to work for a company that had a regional office in one of the office park with the monorail.

Is it the Sbux of MacArthur you saw SeaOrg folks?

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

 

No way there was a CO$ office at Las Colinas? I used to work for a company that had a regional office in one of the office park with the monorail.

 

Is it the Sbux of MacArthur you saw SeaOrg folks?

 

Yes,  at the Sbux on MacArthur.  CoS moved into the newly renovated building(s) in Irving/LC in 2009 and they are located off of 114 & Riverside.  Press release says the campus is 48,000 sq ft.  From the pictures of the outside it looks pretty large.

My previously mentioned friend attended classes and meetings at the old Celebrity Centre  in East Dallas on Buckner.  I did give her a ride there once- it was an old mansion that looked beautiful from the outside.  I read that house burned down a couple of years after the CoS sold it.  I think it was vacant at the time

[Peas n carrots]

Yes,  at the Sbux on MacArthur.  CoS moved into the newly renovated building(s) in Irving/LC in 2009 and they are located off of 114 & Riverside.  Press release says the campus is 48,000 sq ft.  From the pictures of the outside it looks pretty large.

My previously mentioned friend attended classes and meetings at the old Celebrity Centre  in East Dallas on Buckner.  I did give her a ride there once- it was an old mansion that looked beautiful from the outside.  I read that house burned down a couple of years after the CoS sold it.  I think it was vacant at the time

My old company's office was in a building off 114 and O'Connell, so I probably passed by it many times and had no idea!

Sbux must have been a real treat for those SeaOrg folks...they only get paid $50 a week tops!

[HarleyQuinn]

Agree on the money thing. Scientology can't be like "any other religion" because anyone can pick up the Bible or the Quran and know right away what they're in for. I have a friend who grew up as a Scientologist in Florida back in the 80's. Her mother was the one in it, she never believed and it scared her to the point where she ran away from home and stayed with other family members. Her mom didn't even attempt to bring her back. She was an SP right away. It's a shame to think a teenage girl's mother would choose Scientology over her own daughter.

[applejack]

Back in the nascent days of the Anonymous protests against the Scienos, I used to go to the protests, until I got a job that kept me working on weekends and unable to roadtrip.. The very first one was held on what would have been Lisa McPherson's birthday. It was definitely something to be a part of. At times fun and funny (as you'd expect. "ANONYMOUS!" "IS LEGION!" ... ... "ANONYMOUS IS COLD!" "ANONYMOUS' FEET HURT."), but also scary at times. Some of the stories you hear people who had gotten out were terrifying, and the stories people would tell of losing family members to the cult were just heartbreaking. There was one girl I'll never forget. She came to the first protest in DC and her story was just so sad. That video is here. The one from Operation Party Hard in March is longer and is here. If I recall right, she started to post her story in long form on the Ex Scientologist Message Board as well. 

And there's tons of stories like that. Over and over, people's families being ripped apart, people dying. They are an evil, evil organization. They're a cult, plain and simple.

Since people are giving links to things to read, I'll give some of my personal favorites.

https://www.youtube.com/user/xenutv - XenuTV is Mark Bunker's YouTube channel where he puts up a LOT of interviews with well-known Ex Scientologists. In the movement he was known as Wise Beard Man (His words are wise. His face is beard.) because he really guided Anonymous to the peaceful protest/no DDOS method that became the standard. His vlogs are smart and insightful, and he shares a lot of older video as well. He is also the person that the actor Jason Beghe reached out to when he was ready to speak out.
https://www.youtube.com/user/torymagoo44 - Tory Christman is a well-known Ex Scientologist who has been vocal in her protests. She was in for a long time, and one day just walked away. She is a really cool lady. 
http://www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project/part1.shtml - The Tampa Bay Times did a long investigative feature on the cult called the Truth Rundown, that delved pretty deep into the events leading up to the death of Lisa McPherson. Truth Rundown is a riff on "Introspection Rundown" which is the plan Lisa was on when she died. It's what the cult uses to handle people who have had a psychotic break. 
I see that other people linked xenu.net and Tony Ortega's site. 

The Ex Scientologist Message Board is here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/, there's a lot of stories and such there too. 

[FundieFarmer]

Agree on the money thing. Scientology can't be like "any other religion" because anyone can pick up the Bible or the Quran and know right away what they're in for. I have a friend who grew up as a Scientologist in Florida back in the 80's. Her mother was the one in it, she never believed and it scared her to the point where she ran away from home and stayed with other family members. Her mom didn't even attempt to bring her back. She was an SP right away. It's a shame to think a teenage girl's mother would choose Scientology over her own daughter.

Good point.

Has anyone ever diverted and released the texts?

[nausicaa]

 

Good point.

 

Has anyone ever diverted and released the texts?

It seemed like they were being used in Going Clear. I mean, how else would we know about Xenu and the volcano and thetans? (Unless LRH wasn't as secretive with the texts in the early days?)

[QuestioningQuivers]

Did anyone see NCIS:LA last night... it was "based on" scientology...?

[Howl]

When Jenna Miscavige Hill and her husband Dallas were first "out", they still believed that, without adequate preparation, seeing materials from a higher level on the Bridge to Freedom than they had achieved would result in death or illness.  Free access to the internet had been strictly limited while in Sea Org and they had been taught to never, ever, ever read anything that was critical of Co$.  Sea Org creates a serious prison of belief. 

 

 

[DaisyD]

I have always loved Bellisario. After NCIS: LA last night, I love him more. They're so going to get sued, but I'm glad they did it anyway. They didn't pull any punches.

[Howl]

I have always loved Bellisario. After NCIS: LA last night, I love him more. They're so going to get sued, but I'm glad they did it anyway. They didn't pull any punches.

Oooh, I've got it on dvd; watching will be my guilty pleasure for today. 

[nausicaa]

When Jenna Miscavige Hill and her husband Dallas were first "out", they still believed that, without adequate preparation, seeing materials from a higher level on the Bridge to Freedom than they had achieved would result in death or illness.  Free access to the internet had been strictly limited while in Sea Org and they had been taught to never, ever, ever read anything that was critical of Co$.  Sea Org creates a serious prison of belief. 

 

 

God, this is like North Korea level shit. 

[K'Z'K]

Most of the Sooper Sekrit Skriptures were leaked long ago. Scamizdat posted a lot of it to alt.religion.scientology in 1995ish. I have a bunch saved somewhere. Here's a collection from 1996 (which explains the web page design): http://www.xenu.net/archive/secret.html And a somewhat more recent list: https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Scientology_leaks_by_date

Unfortunately, there's a heck of a lot of broken links, so these are really just lists of what once was online with the occasional bit of crazy. But you know the documents are out there somewhere. Some of the early 'net critics had proverbial balls of titanium. Like Zenon Panoussis, who posted the NOTs (high-level sekrits) to ars (under his real name) and goaded Co$ into suing him. Which meant the NOTs were entered into the public record, as evidence is in Sweden. Alas, that record was eventually sealed, but still.  [sidenote: the $cientologese and ars terminology are coming back to me. It's kinda scary.]

Before a recent move-induced purge, I had a bunch of $cn books, including "Introduction to Scientology Ethics." Hubbard's reasoning went: ethical people bring in more money; therefore, whatever you did to bring in money must have been ethical. Furthermore, if you're not bringing in more money than before, you must be unethical. Must be punished.

Most of the newer revelations are people's personal experiences rather than Skriptures (which they, like most $cns, probably never even saw).

It's worse than you think.

[Howl]

OK, that was an excellent episode:  Church of the Unlocked Mind

During this episode, they are describing how, if the  was Church of the Unlocked MInd was sued, each of the church members filed a counter suit.  "The way Scientology did with the IRS?"   Yes! On national TV, on NCIS: Los Angeles they said that OUT LOUD, just in case you didn't realize that this is a thinly veiled episode about Scientology. 

In this scene, Agents Callen and Hanna are being introduced to the Department of Justice Agent, Agent Guevara: 

Agents Callen and Hanna, as promised, AUSA Oscar Guevara.

Agent Callen: So what is, uh, what's DoJ's interest in this case?

Agent Guevara: The Church of the Unlocked Mind is an extremely well-funded and litigious organization. Any time even a small investigation begins, they have each member individually bring suit.

Agent Callen: The way Scientology did with the IRS?

Agent Guevara: Exactly. Now that's hundreds of simultaneous lawsuits. Completely overwhelming the federal courts.

Agent Hanna: So what do you want from us?

Agent Guevara: Do not poke this bear.

Oh, and welcome to the best part of your life! 

The timing of this episode relative to the release of Leah Remini's book can't be a coincidence. 

*****************************************************

Also came across police interviews of Daniel Powell (son) and Dwane Powell (father), who were picked up in Wisconsin, in 2012. Turns out they were being employed by Miscavige/Co$  at the rate of $10,000/week to surveil David Miscavige's father Ron, who had left the church and was living in Wisconsin at that time.  The father (Dwane Powell) is somewhat less forthcoming, but the son totally spills the beans.  

Daniel Powell's interview (1 long session) and Dwane Powell's interviews (3 parts) are linked from this page: 

tonyortega.org/2015/04/20/hear-the-full-police-interview-of-scientology-spy-daniel-powell-about-stalking-ron-miscavige-sr/

I thought Daniel's interview was by far the most revealing, because he is very specific about what they were doing and very specific that David Miscavige was behind it. 

 

[xlurker]

Wow...never knew this stuff about Scientology.  Knew they were a bunch of kooks, but not about the deaths or hard labor.  Think I will be diving down a rabbit hole now.....

[DaffyDill]

The internet is the worst thing that could have happened to the Co$. Because of the net, people have sources to read about the weirdness that is the Co$. That infamous interview with Tom Cruise made by the Co$ for the presentation night of his newly minted Freedom of Valour Medal in 2004 was leaked, and made him seem like a raving loony. 

L. Ron Hubbard's life has been disected and laid bare, and he has been shown to be a fantastical liar, great at creating a fabulous story about himself when in reality, he did nothing particularly remarkable. Prior to the internet, his words were taken at face value.

Those who leave the Co$ now have a platform to shout from to tell the world about the insidiousness, the cruelty, and absolute outrageousness of the so-called church. Documentaries are made, celebs such as Leah Rimini and Jason Beghe leave and defect, along with former Co$ had honchos Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder, and all have their tales to tell of Miscavige's psychopathy, the fawning over of celebs, the existence of The Hole, and the mistreatment of families, children and couples in divisions such as the Sea Org.

Bring it on internet, bring it on. Maybe one day we will be rid of this revolting organisation altogether.

[August]

Do you mean the Ideal Orgs? I've been reading Tony Ortega's blog for several years now. I think they have tons of money put away - that's not going to put them under. It will be a lack of new fresh bodies to fill those stupid orgs.

 

Scientology watching has become one of my guilty pleasures...along with reading FJ LOL

Yes!

[DaisyD]

I have fallen really far down this rabbit hole. I'm almost halfway through the "Up the bridge" series on the Tony Ortega site. I'm really pretty stunned at how many people get sucked into this. They have you yelling at ashtrays and walls pretty early in. It's all so clearly designed to just make a lot of money for the org. I found it hilarious that Tom Cruise failed to get a "floating needle" but then Miscavige cleared him anyway. I get why he's in the "church". He needs the ego massage.