(Possible Fundie?) Family Murders in Tulsa

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I don't care whether these boys were raised Fundie or liberal or were abused horribly or anything in between - you don't fucking kill three of your younger siblings! There is NO excuse for what they did to their brothers and sisters!

:angry-banghead: :pull-hair: :wtf:

(Side note: This was a reaction to the general story, not anything anyone posted here.)

I feel a bit better now. I am interested in knowing more about this family and their beliefs. It just seems rather creepy to me. I mean, there are times when teens have killed their parents without any good reason, but I don't know. . .

Right. No excuse. But if the oldest son had a mental illness like schizophrenia or some sort of delusional disorder, and the parents only treated it with praying over him and exorcising him, that's a recipe for disaster. I guess we will have to wait and see what he has to say if he goes to trial.

[HereticHick]

Absolutely no excuse, and I agree, I see nothing but deadness in those eyes. But I also wonder if, like the Duggars, this is another case of a troubled eldest son whose problem behavior is dealt with totally inadequately and inappropriately by his fundy family.

Also, the police department just announced that initial statement that there was an "open 911" emergency call with no speaking was incorrect.

Instead; "Police told FOX23 one of the young sons called 911 and said his brother was attacking him and his family. Police said someone then took the phone from the boy and said hello and then hung up."

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/fi ... P683l.dpuf

[not breaking because news]

So one of the murderers said "hello" to the emergency dispatcher, and then hung up. Shudder.

[salex]

If both boys were involved in the murders of their family , then they had to share some level of insanity, or they may have been involved in drugs or there may well have been abuse. Because the oldest one having mental issues doesn't explain the 16 year old joining in on a killing spree that involved his younger siblings.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Right. No excuse. But if the oldest son had a mental illness like schizophrenia or some sort of delusional disorder, and the parents only treated it with praying over him and exorcising him, that's a recipe for disaster. I guess we will have to wait and see what he has to say if he goes to trial.

I agree, no excuse whatsoever, but it being the 2 eldest boys (they haven't released the name of the 16 year old I read they won't until he's charged) I believe something very bad was going on in that house. It may well have nothing to do with religion, though. One person can snap, but two of them acting together (if indeed that was the case) leads me to believe there were external factors at work as well.

But as much as it seems logically impossible that 2 loved and well cared for kids can simultaneously go on a murder spree, it's just as impossible for me to understand why they'd harm their siblings if it was a reaction stemming from abuse. I just don't get any of it.

[Mitz_]

He has confessed:

http://www.people.com/article/oklahoma- ... ion-report

[bubblekitty]

Looking at the mugshot I was hoping it would turn out to be meth psychosis but reading that confession as well as that there was 2 brothers.. ugh. There is just no way to understand it.

[JesusPony]

The oldest son seems mentally disturbed.

[lawfulevil]

I pulled the mom's screen name off the WHOIS for one of her websites- the registration is still active until October. It looks like she just used aokiemom for a lot, including her gmail. She has a very active online life including a lot of the same moneygrubbing stuff we saw from Emily and Dna: whoisology.com/email/archive_10/aokiemom@gmail. com (edited to break link)

Still don't know if she's fundie or not but SOMETHING is going on with these folks.

I was 15 when I got married in Texas in 1987. Parents had to sign a form. Was not pregnant. Still married to the same guy and 7 kids later. Not letting my daughter but it worked for us. I lived in Oklahoma at the time. In Oklahoma I could have if I had been pregnant.

-found on reddit

The 1987 Texas marriage index yields: "001828 BEVER DAVID D 24 SHARPE APRIL L 15 1/31/1987 91 GRAYSON"

If I found out some guy in his mid-20s was sniffing around my high school sophomore, I'd have him arrested, not marry her off.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

http://m.koco.com/news/broken-arrow-pol ... s/34342660

The 13 year old identified her brothers as responsible for the attack. Can't begin to imagine what she's going through now.

[Mitz_]

Someone who say's he was a friend of Robert's at some point in the past wrote this comment on The Daily Mail article:

"Robert was always strange. Had a very inflated sense of self. I think he resented his parents because he believed he could have gone to Harvard, Yale, etc. Thought he was a genius held back by homeschooling. I used to have a creepy note he gave me on my departure from Broken Arrow. I was his only friend. I wish I had stayed in touch to see where things went wrong..."

The friend also said that Robert wasn't allowed to accept a ride home from work and that Robert definitely wasn't a druggie.

[FundieFarmer]

The people article said the 18-year-old brother confessed this was just the start of a series of murders they'd planned to commit. Holy cheese, what went wrong in that house??

[HerNameIsBuffy]

The people article said the 18-year-old brother confessed this was just the start of a series of murders they'd planned to commit. Holy cheese, what went wrong in that house??

Another news article said that the police are tracking a shipment of ammo en route to the house at the time of the killings.

The younger brother's name and mugshot have been released. He looks like a baby - if I didn't know his age I'd have said 13-14.

Also turns out the 13 year old girl didn't make the 911 call, it was the 12 or 7 year old brother before he died. Since the boys ran as the police got there that call likely saved the life of the 2 year old - it cut their time short.

[zadie]

Another news article said that the police are tracking a shipment of ammo en route to the house at the time of the killings.

The younger brother's name and mugshot have been released. He looks like a baby - if I didn't know his age I'd have said 13-14.

Also turns out the 13 year old girl didn't make the 911 call, it was the 12 or 7 year old brother before he died. Since the boys ran as the police got there that call likely saved the life of the 2 year old - it cut their time short.

If their abuse was a result of their religious beliefs I wonder if the other planned murders were other members of their church.

That thing about exorcisms set off some bells for me too. Does anyone know how long they've lived in that home? I'm trying to figure out of they've lived there always and never let their kids out of the house really. Or if they moved there and it has been for a limited amount of time.

Just because if the isolation was for a limited amount of time I would bet it started when the oldest one started showing any rebelliousness or possibly dangerous behavior. Even if he wasn't dangerous, they could have interpreted any rebellious behavior as demons and started this exorcism crap and the isolation and everything.

Right now I feel for everybody. Unless we know that he was born with anti-social personality disorder or something along those lines, it would take so much emotional pain and beating to get him to the point.

[Howl]

This reminds me of the 2013 Nehemiah Griego case in New Mexico.

He was the oldest son (age 13), who one night shot his mother, then his brother and then two young sisters who were around 5 years old. Then he sat up all night and murdered his father, a 52-year old prison minister, when he came home at 5 am.

No one saw it coming and he was wandering around at church the next day claiming his family had died in a car accident.

Not exactly like this OK thing, but a situation where a child murders his family. The family attended Calvary Chapel church in the Albuquerque area, which sounded fundie light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Sout ... o_homicide

Link not broken because wikipedia

[HerNameIsBuffy]

If their abuse was a result of their religious beliefs I wonder if the other planned murders were other members of their church.

That thing about exorcisms set off some bells for me too. Does anyone know how long they've lived in that home? I'm trying to figure out of they've lived there always and never let their kids out of the house really. Or if they moved there and it has been for a limited amount .

I haven't seen anything with a timeline, but the neighbor talked about the fact that they used to help decorate the subdivision for Christmas and stopped a few years ago, so definitely not new comers.

Conflicting reports on the isolation now, some saying they kept only to themselves and other neighbors talking about how they weren't cloistered, just not participants in neighborhood events.

[zadie]

I haven't seen anything with a timeline, but the neighbor talked about the fact that they used to help decorate the subdivision for Christmas and stopped a few years ago, so definitely not new comers.

Conflicting reports on the isolation now, some saying they kept only to themselves and other neighbors talking about how they weren't cloistered, just not participants in neighborhood events.

That change is interesting. Clearly something happened to make them want their kids around the neighbors even less.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Regarding timeline (sorry, trying to figure out how to snip quotes on mobile) Per Daily Mail the house was sold for $245k in 2007 - so likely that when they bought it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html

Link not broken because news site.

Weird how so many people see a resemblance to Daniel Radcliffe, but I think he looks just like Danny Cooksey.

[Loveday]

Regarding timeline (sorry, trying to figure out how to snip quotes on mobile) Per Daily Mail the house was sold for $245k in 2007 - so likely that when they bought it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -home.html

Link not broken because news site.

Weird how so many people see a resemblance to Daniel Radcliffe, but I think he looks just like Danny Cooksey.

I just had a good long look at the mugshot of this guy, and it's the eyes that has everyone thinking Dan Radcliffe. They really are eerily similar to Dan's (with the exception that Dan's eyes are blue rather than brown, of course). Same shape, same sort of heavy-lidded look to them that Dan's has. I look at the eyes and then can't see the rest of the face without thinking Radcliffe.

As a huge Harry Potter fan, I must now go administer some brain bleach in order to get this comparison out of my mind. :?

[JuicyDuggar]

I just had a good long look at the mugshot of this guy, and it's the eyes that has everyone thinking Dan Radcliffe. They really are eerily similar to Dan's (with the exception that Dan's eyes are blue rather than brown, of course). Same shape, same sort of heavy-lidded look to them that Dan's has. I look at the eyes and then can't see the rest of the face without thinking Radcliffe.

As a huge Harry Potter fan, I must now go administer some brain bleach in order to get this comparison out of my mind. :?

Aww man, I shouldn't have read that. Cannot be unseen, pass the :brain-bleach: when you're done please.

It might have been that DM article where I read this but a neighbor said that he took off running into the woods. She said it's likely mud on his face since it's been raining heavily in the area. So that kind of rules out meth.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Aww man, I shouldn't have read that. Cannot be unseen, pass the :brain-bleach: when you're done please.

It might have been that DM article where I read this but a neighbor said that he took off running into the woods. She said it's likely mud on his face since it's been raining heavily in the area. So that kind of rules out meth.

I've read mud and/or blood splatter and it's definitely gone in the other mug shot after he was cleaned up. The second mug shot is far creepier to me. His eyes don't look empty but rather...blissful? Honestly i dont think I've ever had such a serene look on my faces no my life.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinio ... _stabbings

Link not broken because Boston Herald.

The younger brother's mug shot is remarkable in how neutral his expression is. Not dead behind the eyes, no smirk...just a very flat affect. at least that's how it reads to me.

I know it's creepy that I keep googling for news, but when crimes like this are committed by kids i can't make sense of it so I am waiting for someone to explain the why.

(And as a hardcore Harry Potter fan i will continue to refuse to see the resemblance. :whistle: )

[polecat]

That's a good question. I can't see her note about the air conditioner, but something probably helped those two boys disengage from their actions. As mentioned above, stabbing is a very personal, close way to attack someone. To go after the whole family like that? Something dreadful must have been building up. Wonder if they were involved in ATI.

I wonder if FB settings are making it more complicated for some people to see things. I can see pics and such on the mom's page, but no comments. If other people have any connections to friends of friends of these people, they probably have better access than others (depending on the settings enabled). I'm curious about the mom's sister's comments as well, but I can't seem to access the mom's friends, even -- I just see a few people she was following.

Such a sad, tragic end -- and the 2 and 13 year olds have to live with this, too.

I have mutual friends with her (I didn't know her, and neither they nor I live particularly close to the area, so I'm not sure the extent of the connection), but I don't see anything that stands out. The pictures of the children are haunting.

[Four is Enough]

I am wondering IF physical punishment was used, how much it was used, and how long it continued into the child's lifetime... I mean.. the dad is nearly 10 years older than the mother. I know many people have that sort of gap in a marriage, but for me it says "control". HOW can anyone expect an 18 year old to be "content" in the house all the time? The older boy does sound a little "off". bit of a braggart. I wonder if he could have made it into Harvard. Most of me says HELL NO, but part of me wonders if he might be so intelligent that he just outstripped everyone in the homeschool society, couldn't get access to proper educational materials to achieve his goals, and just snapped. I doubt it.

When will these people learn?

[lawfulevil]

The age gap isn't the creepy bit to me- it's the fact that they got married when she was still basically a kid. I wonder why they waited so long to have kids. They got married in 1987 and an 18 year old would have been born in about 97- so they waited ten years and then had seven kids? Wtf?

[HerNameIsBuffy]

The age gap isn't the creepy bit to me- it's the fact that they got married when she was still basically a kid. I wonder why they waited so long to have kids. They got married in 1987 and an 18 year old would have been born in about 97- so they waited ten years and then had seven kids? Wtf?

The age thing wouldn't bother me at all if both were fully developed adults, just as the teenage marriage would be a horribly bad idea in any circumstances but not as creepy if they were both teenage idiots...it's the age difference combined with her still being a kid that raises red flags for me.

And that's a great observation about the gap between marriage and their first kid. It makes even less sense that it wasn't a shotgun wedding. Heck even in the 1880's Pa Ingalls made Laura wait until she was 18 to marry Almonzo.

It seems like in other such cases people come out of the woodwork early to talk, especially people who were tertiary in their lives who want a bit of attention. Weird how the little bit that's come out is so vague.

I always roll my eyes when I see comments on the news sites about people keeping to themselves or not participating in neighborhood things because I'm not a joiner by nature. I'm pretty introverted irl and most of neighbors couldn't tell you more than the car I drive but there would be no shortage of family, old friends, co-workers, people with whom I went to school to yammer about me to the press, good and bad. These people were either that isolated or their circle is better than most about not gossiping to the press.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

I am wondering IF physical punishment was used, how much it was used, and how long it continued into the child's lifetime... I mean.. the dad is nearly 10 years older than the mother. I know many people have that sort of gap in a marriage, but for me it says "control". HOW can anyone expect an 18 year old to be "content" in the house all the time? The older boy does sound a little "off". bit of a braggart. I wonder if he could have made it into Harvard. Most of me says HELL NO, but part of me wonders if he might be so intelligent that he just outstripped everyone in the homeschool society, couldn't get access to proper educational materials to achieve his goals, and just snapped. I doubt it.

When will these people learn?

In addition to wondering about physical abuse I keep coming back to ties to a church which puts exorcism and demon possession front and center. Im trying to imagine the mindfuck if I was raised to believe that bad behavior and evil acts can stem not just from a persons conscious choices but from demons acting through people. I'd think it would be hard to know when your own accountability ends and loss of control to an evil entity begins. I'd also think it could lead to some level of dehumanizing others if you think that they may not be who you think they are and instead are possessed.

We don't know anything about the specific beliefs of this family so it may not apply, but I just know when I read that part of the website I got a chill as it could lead to a very dangerous mindset. I can't imagine trying to raise healthy children with accountability and a sense of their own agency in a culture which teaches that people may or may be acting of their own volition or may be a host to a demon. I am a world class control freak and I can't imagine a more terrifying mindset.

The braggart stuff in and of itself is par for the course for a lot of kids during late teens. There is an old saying that teenagers should run the world while they still know everything. Insecurity mixed with utter confidence is part of being a kid, I'd die of embarrassment if my journals from that age ever saw the light of day...it was ridiculous how accomplished I was sure I would be. 18 year old me would be very disappointed in current me. No Clio award, no rock star husband, and no mansion. What the hell happened? Now I'm disappointed in me, too. :)

Edited because I do too know how to spell Clio.