"19 Kids" Cancelled

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Good post. Do you know Ben? From your post it sounds like you might.

Ben strikes me as malleable. I mean, he is preachy and convinced he knows more than he really does about life, but I think with the right influence, he is smart enough to learn more critical thinking skills. The fact that he graduated with honors, knowing that he did much of his schoolwork remotely is a good thing. This shows a dedication to his education that is admirable and shows a decent work ethic. When doing distance learning, it takes a lot of self discipline to really stick with it, and especially in Ben's situation, where he was living such an odd life with being on TV, living at the Duggars, etc. To have stuck with school is a good indication of some personal character.

Ben may well mature past his current state of arrogance, which, lets be honest is not really developmentally unexpected. Lots of kids his age, foolishly think they have life by the tail and have shit figured out.

And while I am not in agreement with Pa Seewald's take on life, I do think that he and Guinn seemed to allow their kids more personal freedoms and perhaps less brainwashing. This might mean that Ben may eventually be more open to learning and expanding his world view.

Jessa, on the other hand, I am less optimistic about. I hope I am wrong, and that she will in fact grow and mature, but I do wish that Ben would move her away from the Duggar home central. That would be the first step to his "headship" growth, and it would be good for both of them. Jessa seems to have some natural curiosity about some aspects of the outside world. We see it with her fashion and beauty regime. Possibly their choice of Honeymoon destination shows an interest that is beyond their small world in Arkansas. So if Ben would get them away from JB and M, they would just be better off.

I think that, as long as the Duggars are so close to Jessa physically, she will probably stay in this mindset forever. She really needs to go the way of Alyssa Bates and get the hell out of Dodge. I think the more distance there is between her and her family, the better off she'll be. I hope that, with the show ended, Ben and Jessa move, even if it's to his parent's area instead of her parent's area.

But then, who knows. If the spinoff isn't picked up by any network, Jessa may change. It's very possible that she's the way she is because she knows it's a persona that guarantees her money. I very much see Jessa as the person who does what needs to be done. If there's no more money in her being a fundie princess, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she changed her personality, started some kind of career, went to school, threw her parents under the bus, or any number of things that would seem out of character for her right now.

On the topic of Ben being a preachy know it all, I'm fairly certain that that's developmentally normal. Whether they were religious or atheist, the vast majority of the 18-21 year olds I've known in my life time that had a definite stance on religion were insufferably preachy about it. The worst of it came when an atheist and a theist were in the same room as each other. The same could be said of anyone who had a definite political view (whether it was general, like "I'm a democrat/republican," or specific, like "it's time to end the destruction of our ecosystem by no longer eating meat products!"). It was hell.

Unlike most people his age, though, Ben's relative fame has given him an avenue for displaying his obnoxious "I have all the answers in the world, listen to me!" phase. Instead of being Facebook rants with only his friends and family as the audience, or turning a college party into a political debate in which none of the people debating the topic actually understood any of what they were saying or the implications of the ideas they thought should be implemented, Ben is given talk shows, followers who only care about him because he's married to a fundie princess, and stages at big political rallies/church conferences.

I think chances are that high that Ben will always be religious, but I don't think this stage of "I have all the answers" is going to last more than 5 more years, and that's worst case scenario. The only way I don't see that changing is if he's put on TV with a regular show, again, because he'll have to continue that persona.

[tulip]

Does anyone know how the rates of the Dugger followers on fb, instagram and twitter changed between today and before the scandal broke? I would love to know those numbers.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been checking in on their FB page just to see the numbers. I haven't kept up with it that well since the scandal broke, but I think they lost a couple thousand at that time. BUT, in the days since the show cancellation, they've gained around 5,000+. So, as far as the FB page is concerned, they haven't lost many followers, and in fact, are somewhat gaining.

[singsingsing]

If Ben and Jessa are truly bound and determined to make a living completely off their so-called "ministry" then yeah, they're probably in trouble. But something tells me that they won't be content to sink into poverty. They're used to a comfortable lifestyle, and the fact that Ben went through with and finished college despite the TLC gravy train, and apparently did quite well, gives me some hope for them. Either they will find a way to make their ministry succeed, or they will look for other options. I don't think they will become like the Shraders or the Rodriguezes... but I guess only time will tell.

[zadie]

Does anyone know how the rates of the Dugger followers on fb, instagram and twitter changed between today and before the scandal broke? I would love to know those numbers.

On the upcoming "documentary": Worst case scenario is that Jill and Jessa use this to demonstrate that what happend to them really was nothing compared to what happend to the other girls featured in this "show". What drives me nuts is that Jill and Jessa are the Duggar spokespersons for the abuse. According to the Police Report, it was Jinger and Joy who had it the worst by Josh. Maybe Jessa and Jill really knew of nothing until they were told, but Jessa and Joy definitly have to have horrible memories, but they are not asked.

I don't know why people think Jessa was unaware. In the early show they mention that laundry duty used to be Jessa's jurisdiction. Considering how young eu were when the molestation happened, I doubt they had switched jurisdictions when Jinger was 8. I'm only bringing this up because Jessa being forced to go be the spokesperson for the person who cornered her and felt her up is a special kind of horrible. I think it's disrespectful to think Jill and Jessa are less aware because they're being the mouthpieces.

This isn't directed solely at you. But I feel like a lot of people like to dismiss what Jill and Jessa are forced to go through just because they're "adults". Which is only based on them being married. Jinger is only like a year younger but she gets loads of sympathy. Jana is even older and she gets treated the same way.

Tl;dr: don't let your dislike of Jessa and Jill's personalities minimize the horrible family situation they are in.

[calimojo]

I think that, as long as the Duggars are so close to Jessa physically, she will probably stay in this mindset forever. She really needs to go the way of Alyssa Bates and get the hell out of Dodge. I think the more distance there is between her and her family, the better off she'll be. I hope that, with the show ended, Ben and Jessa move, even if it's to his parent's area instead of her parent's area.

But then, who knows. If the spinoff isn't picked up by any network, Jessa may change. It's very possible that she's the way she is because she knows it's a persona that guarantees her money. I very much see Jessa as the person who does what needs to be done. If there's no more money in her being a fundie princess, I wouldn't be surprised at all if she changed her personality, started some kind of career, went to school, threw her parents under the bus, or any number of things that would seem out of character for her right now.

On the topic of Ben being a preachy know it all, I'm fairly certain that that's developmentally normal. Whether they were religious or atheist, the vast majority of the 18-21 year olds I've known in my life time that had a definite stance on religion were insufferably preachy about it. The worst of it came when an atheist and a theist were in the same room as each other. The same could be said of anyone who had a definite political view (whether it was general, like "I'm a democrat/republican," or specific, like "it's time to end the destruction of our ecosystem by no longer eating meat products!"). It was hell.

Unlike most people his age, though, Ben's relative fame has given him an avenue for displaying his obnoxious "I have all the answers in the world, listen to me!" phase. Instead of being Facebook rants with only his friends and family as the audience, or turning a college party into a political debate in which none of the people debating the topic actually understood any of what they were saying or the implications of the ideas they thought should be implemented, Ben is given talk shows, followers who only care about him because he's married to a fundie princess, and stages at big political rallies/church conferences.

I think chances are that high that Ben will always be religious, but I don't think this stage of "I have all the answers" is going to last more than 5 more years, and that's worst case scenario. The only way I don't see that changing is if he's put on TV with a regular show, again, because he'll have to continue that persona.

In case I wasn't clear in my post, I agree that Ben's arrogance is developmentally in line with his age and life experience.

The problem is though, that most kids his age have life experiences that help them realize they do not know everything. The bump up against other people and situations that help them wise up and mature. In Ben's case, as part of the Duggar Juggernaut ( before the scandal), he was in a situation where he was constantly reinforced for his attitudes etc. And still today, the leghumpers just heap on the praise and probably convince him that he is right.

With the scandal and cancellation, perhaps eventually their odd little microcosm of life might open up, but for the time being, I fear that Ben is still getting enough reinforcement for his preachy and know it all ways, and bad advice that I think it will delay some of his normal maturation. Then again, as disturbing as the scandal has been, perhaps it will plant enough doubt in Ben about gothardism and the QF lifestyle.

All I can say is that if anyone of Ben's friends or family ever read this thread, Please encourage Ben to move his little family away from Duggar Central. Encourage him to use and expand his education so that he can support his family and not be reliant on JB's good will. Encourage him to be his own man. Not a mini JB, or even a mini Michael Seewald. Not dissing his dad, but just he needs to be his own man. Encourage him to work on his marriage as partnership and to encourage his wife to pursue education or training if she desires.

[j-rin]

I think up may pick them up for shows based on what they are doing.. weddings, kids having kids, etc. They still play 7th Heaven even after the dad on that show admitted to molesting children for years. I don't think they have much more of a moral compass than other leghumpers and their followers. I don't think they will pick them up in the next year or so but when the time comes and things have settled down they will pick them up... I think they will start appearing at the bates house in a few episodes just to get a feeling from their viewers first.

[BunnyBee]

All I can say is, I cant wait for more cringey youtube videos :dance:

[Alachantal]

I have yet to go down the Maxwell rabbit hole, but I really want to. There is so much information and history I know it will take me forever.

May I present you all with my non dugger FJ favorites:

Erika Shupe is my new Idol on FJ. She is so evil and you couldn’t make up the stuff she dose if you tired. She has horrifying blog pots detailing every aspect of her and her children’s lives (which she schedules down to the minuet). Here is her post on first time obedience:

largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2011/05/first-time-obedience-for-children.html

I found FJ because of Sparkling Lauren a while back. She and Her 4 daughters travel around Australia and New Zealand in a bus. She and her husband were ubar religious and then became... crazy aniti-govement nomads. The father killed their 5th child the only boy about 3 years ago. She recently was involved in a quasi illegal surgery to some gold star gays in Iceland.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24040

And to round out the bunch is another traveling family, The RV living Rodrigues! The parents are evil charters out of a Disney movie and they squeeze now 12 (they birthed a daughter yesterday) rail thin kids in their RV. They show up at churches all over the US to sing and screech on instruments for love offerings.

rodriguesfamilyministries.com/main/?page_id=1783

I have quite enjoyed the Dugger snark up until recently. I wanted them to be taken down, but not like this. For everyone who stays in the Dugger section only, you are missing out on some fabulous stuff.

What the actual fuck? Well I guess I'm going to go fall down that rabbit hole now.

[SoybeanQueen]

I bet Jessa said some not-approved words when she heard the final cancellation news. She doesn't really strike me as the super-forgiving type. Josh is getting the stink-eye at every Thanksgiving from here until death!

[ShepherdontheRock]

I bet Jessa said some not-approved words when she heard the final cancellation news. She doesn't really strike me as the super-forgiving type. Josh is getting the stink-eye at every Thanksgiving from here until death!

She probably did the Regina George scream.

Who knows, maybe she'll throw Josh under the bus!

[FJismyheadship]

Good post. Do you know Ben? From your post it sounds like you might.

Ben strikes me as malleable. I mean, he is preachy and convinced he knows more than he really does about life, but I think with the right influence, he is smart enough to learn more critical thinking skills. The fact that he graduated with honors, knowing that he did much of his schoolwork remotely is a good thing. This shows a dedication to his education that is admirable and shows a decent work ethic. When doing distance learning, it takes a lot of self discipline to really stick with it, and especially in Ben's situation, where he was living such an odd life with being on TV, living at the Duggars, etc. To have stuck with school is a good indication of some personal character.

Ben may well mature past his current state of arrogance, which, lets be honest is not really developmentally unexpected. Lots of kids his age, foolishly think they have life by the tail and have shit figured out.

And while I am not in agreement with Pa Seewald's take on life, I do think that he and Guinn seemed to allow their kids more personal freedoms and perhaps less brainwashing. This might mean that Ben may eventually be more open to learning and expanding his world view.

Jessa, on the other hand, I am less optimistic about. I hope I am wrong, and that she will in fact grow and mature, but I do wish that Ben would move her away from the Duggar home central. That would be the first step to his "headship" growth, and it would be good for both of them. Jessa seems to have some natural curiosity about some aspects of the outside world. We see it with her fashion and beauty regime. Possibly their choice of Honeymoon destination shows an interest that is beyond their small world in Arkansas. So if Ben would get them away from JB and M, they would just be better off.

Most of what I posted is public knowledge, but I know people that know him. I know his aunt and a couple of his friends. I was in choir with a couple of people invited to his wedding.

If we go by public knowledge and take out the gay friends, the rest of the list remains the same. Ben is not uneducated, he has work experience, and he could get a job. He might have one and they haven't told anyone about it because they dont want crazies showing up.

[Rescinded and Mended]

It could be that the company he works for doesn't allow him to discuss the job or even the company's name. My dad isn't allowed to talk about where he works, and nor is anyone in my family. I'm allowed to say my dad's an aerospace engineer, sometimes I can even mention projects he worked on in the past if the projects were made public, but that's it. Ben could very well be in a similar situation, and they're not talking about it at all because they know that:

1. people won't just accept he has a job and no other information about it (I mean, some of you aren't even accepting that he has anything to offer a company, despite knowing that he graduated with honors in business)

2. people will snoop around and try to find him.

Or, it could be that he's just not really open about his job. If I remember correctly, he never actually told anyone about his job at the real estate company. People on here found him listed on a website or something and posted in a discussion. He never mentioned it publicly, at least not that I ever saw or heard. Maybe he just wants privacy at work. I wouldn't blame him. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Derick and Jill started moving forward with the whole missionary plan because people weren't respecting his privacy at work -- people on here emailed him at Walmart when the news broke that he had left, just to see if he had a forwarding address to his new job. I don't see Ben, or Derick, as being comfortable with that level of privacy invasion. It's one thing to be filmed when you're at your in-laws and everything is pretty well scripted; its a completely different thing to be hounded day and night by obsessed people, especially in a professional setting.

I agree with much of this, but only wanted to add that I don't include myself in the number who are e-mailing or participating in any sort of personal harassment regarding where any of the Duggar husbands work. That's not something I believe in. Like everyone else here, I'm curious, but will wait for the information to come out when and if it does. Again, if Ben wants to keep his source of employment private, then that's up to him.

And I''ll close with hoping that Ben is working and not just relying upon the idea of a personal ministry to sustain his little family.

[DeFrauder]

Did you guys see on the Duggar Family Blog that they want people to write to TLC to influence them to reconsider their decision? Entry for July 16th.

They point people to this petition: supporttheduggars.com/

DON"T SIGN IT!

While the Duggar family may not be perfect and they’ve had difficulties like so many other families, their show WAS one of the few clean, family-friendly shows on TV. Sadly, there isn’t much a family can watch together any longer. The airwaves are full of terrible, trashy television! It isn't right that the Duggars must be forced off the air while the filthy shows remain!

We want our voices to be heard! We all know the power of standing together—just ask A&E what happened when they cancelled Duck Dynasty!

It seems that every day in America our values and way of life are disappearing. We must all stand together.

Please complete the petition form below to tell the Duggar Family we support them and to tell TLC that we want the Duggars back on the air!

I cut and paste their plea.

[silverspoons]

Am I the only one that thinks TLC did not just call the Duggars and say you are cancelled? I think they had met with them over the last 6 weeks and made a deal. TLC doesn't want to totally give up their rights to the Duggar family and the Duggar family would like to still be on tv. I think this cancellation was part of a plan. I see Jim Bob calling a family meeting, sitting down waving his hands around and telling the family TLC needs to change our show. They will not be showing 19 kids anymore. We are going to help people and do a documentary on the dark path our family walked down. Then TLC is going to talk to us about how they can film us, giving example of Jessa's baby and Josiah's courting and how TLC wants to focus on big moments and their might not be trips anymore with all the ids. Jim Bob will say the change is due to something religious or Biblical.

I don't think anyone in the family is panicked that the show is done yet. I think TLC has kept the door wide open so no one is looking for other jobs yet.

[HarryPotterFan]

Did you guys see on the Duggar Family Blog that they want people to write to TLC to influence them to reconsider their decision? Entry for July 16th.

They point people to this petition://supporttheduggars.com/

DON"T SIGN IT!

I cut and paste their plea.

Because nothing said "clean, family-friendly" and "values" like child molestation...

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Because nothing said "clean, family-friendly" and "values" like child molestation...

It's not molestation if it's a mistake. And Jesus forgave him, so everything is hunky dory

[BunnyBee]

It's not molestation if it's a mistake. And Jesus forgave him, so everything is hunky dory

nothing says "clean, family-friendly" and "values" like oppressing women and dry humping your wife in public :wink-kitty:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

nothing says "clean, family-friendly" and "values" like oppressing women and dry humping your wife in public :wink-kitty:

Women have no place outside of the kitchen unless they're taking a sperm deposit. :p

[balsamicvinegar]

Women have no place outside of the kitchen unless they're taking a sperm deposit. :p

Well who's going to clean the bathrooms, then?

(Your username is pretty awesome by the way)

[Toothfairy]

Did you guys see on the Duggar Family Blog that they want people to write to TLC to influence them to reconsider their decision? Entry for July 16th.

They point people to this petition://supporttheduggars.com/

DON"T SIGN IT!

I cut and paste their plea.

Why in the hell do grown adults look at people like the Duggars to be role models to them and their children. The duggars aren't God. The duggars don't pay their bills. The duggars don't give a shit about any of their fans. Kids I can understand why they might look up to the Duggars. But adults should know better. If your child is looking up to f list reality tv stars then you failed as a parent

[Cleopatra7]

Why in the hell do grown adults look at people like the Duggars to be role models to them and their children. The duggars aren't God. The duggars don't pay their bills. The duggars don't give a shit about any of their fans. Kids I can understand why they might look up to the Duggars. But adults should know better. If your child is looking up to f list reality tv stars then you failed as a parent

I think it's because conservative and fundie lite Christians are desperate for mainstream popularity, despite their claims of being "counter-cultural." Almost everything in the Christian entertainment field is a ripped off version of a better secular art form and 19kac is no exception. They want mainstream validation that their beliefs and politics are true, and the Duggars did provide mainstream respectability to some very extreme ideas.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Well who's going to clean the bathrooms, then?

(Your username is pretty awesome by the way)

The children, of course.

ETA: thanks :) I made it YEARS ago and it's finally relavent.

[roddma]

The children, of course.

ETA: thanks :) I made it YEARS ago and it's finally relavent.

I can't visit duggarfmailyblog without my blood pressure getting up. What filthy shows are they talking about? What is wholesome about a couple who pops out 19 kids and lets a child molester live with them even if it's their own son? I also noticed Duggar Family Blog FB and Duggar Family Official FB have blocked Posts to Page.

[isarhenne]

For years I've wanted the family to go somewhere "extreme" just to get a taste of real life while not being chaperoned by a camera crew who filters everything out that could be shocking to them.

E.g. travel to Saudi Arabia and being percieved as unholy and immodest; being frowned upon and getting the stink/ side eye from the locals because the girls show off their long hair, their arms and feet and wear make-up and self tanner.

Then travel to my hometown and see all the nudists in the city center, because people here do not care and don't connect sexuality with nudity directly!

After that they probably never want to leave Arkansas again! :D

I want them to see that everyone can pick a random set of rules and think themselves superiour to everyone who does not live according to these rules. Smug Smug Duggar Smuggars!!!

[DaysAgo]

Fun one on employment opportunities for the Duggars:

http://www.funnyordie.com/articles/7e49 ... 7vu.nrr3uo