smiles and trials

[Black Aliss]

US universities require a diploma or GED usually, but they also require a test. There's two tests for college: ACT and SAT. Both of those tests had math, science, history, English/language arts/reading, and a writing section. These scores are used for entrance into college and if they are too low, community colleges are used for remedial courses before a student is allowed into a 4-year college. The higher the scores on the ACT or SAT exams, the more chance one has of getting into better schools and also the better chance for academic scholarships.

Unless you are a complete dolt, but were fortunate enough to be born into a family where a parent or grandparent graduated from a prestigious university. In that case, you should have no problem being admitted regardless of test scores and grades. At the Ivies and highly-ranked state universities (UC Berkeley, for example) legacy admissions always outnumbered affirmative action admissions, even in the heyday of the latter.

[dairyfreelife]

Unless you are a complete dolt, but were fortunate enough to be born into a family where a parent or grandparent graduated from a prestigious university. In that case, you should have no problem being admitted regardless of test scores and grades. At the Ivies and highly-ranked state universities (UC Berkeley, for example) legacy admissions always outnumbered affirmative action admissions, even in the heyday of the latter.

There's always exceptions, but I was speaking in general about exams to get into schools. Money and alumni do make a difference as well, unfortunately. :roll: (eye roll for the schools, not anyone here).

[GawkingToo]

The U.S. also has community colleges, where people can work towards an associate's degree. These colleges tend to be "open admission" colleges, meaning that anyone can attend. That said, in my state, there is an additional requirement that you prove your college readiness before you can take courses that count towards your degree. I don't know the details (I didn't go to undergrad in my state), but I'm guessing you can be exempted from the college readiness test if you got a certain score on other standardized tests.

I found some links on it for my state (Texas), in case you're interested:

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/index.cfm? ... DD8AADD1E3

(In this context, I think "developmental education" is their preferred term/euphemism for remedial/college readiness coursework.)

http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/rea ... ch=4&rl=54

Info on who's exempt from the college-readiness exam, from the Texas Administrative Code.

http://www.hccs.edu/portal/site/hccs/me ... 4710acRCRD

Example of the enrollment process at a community college.

[GawkingToo]

Also, I went an looked up the official graduation rates for Texas. They're actually much higher than I'd quoted in my post. That said, it feels like there's a cycle: The dropout rates are incredibly high. The schools and school districts figure out some creative accounting tricks and the dropout rate magically drops precipitously within a few years. There's an expose, the legislature eventually responds and clarifies how dropouts are to be counted, and we have a high dropout rate again. Rinse and repeat.

For the latest examples, see the Texas Education Agency's latest graduation figures:

http://www.tea.state.tx.us/index4.aspx?id=25769806299

Then consider the following:

http://app1.kuhf.org/articles/137529058 ... -Less.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... t-numbers/

http://www.thecb.state.tx.us/index.cfm? ... B0B40E8FA9

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/02/11/bas ... l-diploma/

-- This last link is to a news story titled, "Basset Hound Gets Texas High School Diploma." :)

Edited to add more links re Texas diploma mills and affect on graduation rates.

[OkToBeTakei]

So in general it is not straight from school to Uni?

Obviously that was a small example not all chosen career paths require a Uni degree. In general though there will be a standard entrance requirement of GCSE's at age 15 and/or Highers 'A'levels.

The subjects at GCSE are more prescriptive including Maths/English. But Highers/A' levels will be chosen on what subjects are required for your chosen path.

EG. Law would be AAAAA Highers including English, but accept AAABB at higher if the pupil goes on to do sixth year studies including a social science.

MA in Spanish will get an offer if they complete AAAB including obviously Spanish. Again conditional offers will be given if the pupil attains ABBB but completes sixth year studies if it is a humanities subject.

To become a Midwife you would require ABBB two of the Highers being Biology/Chemistry/Physics or Maths. I'm thinking The Duggars don't know what a Midwife really is.

Actually I thought our system seemed simple but it probably does not appear so to others.

(I used one Uni for the above examples...I gave Oxbridge a miss :lol:

[GawkingToo]

So in general it is not straight from school to Uni?

You can go straight from high school to a four-year college. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how most middle and upper-middle class young adults do it. The associate's degree is equal to the first two years of a four-year degree. So if you have money, you do all four years at university. The thing is, community college is waayy cheaper (at least where I live) and is often a friendlier option for non-traditional students (such as older students, students with kids, etc.), students who have to work full-time, and first generation college students. They often offer smaller classes, more evening classes, etc. For lower income people, a lot of times community college is their entry into higher education.

To my knowledge, an associate's degree doesn't get you very far, except maybe a ticket into a four-year college. You can do some trades with an associate's degree, such as being a police officer or a fire fighter. I think it's also possible to be an RN (registered nurse) with an associate's degree--can someone confirm?. You can also become a plumber or mechanic without a college degree, and I've heard those jobs can pay surprisingly well. But generally speaking, what I've listed above tends to be the higher end of the pay scale.

To become a lawyer, for instance, you have to have a 4-year degree (what we generally mean when we say a "college degree"), plus a law degree (which is an additional 3 years).

Edit: Formatting

Edit: You can also do a lot of tech jobs (like computer networking) without a college degree. You just take various certification tests instead.

[snarkykitty]

I have never read the blog before, but my initial thoughts based on a perusal brought a few thoughts to mind. I am assuming (yes, I know) that the seemingly simple assignment is not the daily curriculum for all ages, but perhaps a once-in-a-while thing. Perhaps this is a snarkable post, perhaps not, I'm saying I just don't know. I am taking the post out of context, which is probably a mistake, but it's Saturday morning and I am hoping to see my niece today so I've got fun on my mind.

- There is an Arts crisis in American schools. Taking time out to let your creativity blossom is beneficial on so many levels. Even the most technical jobs require creative thought. How to make a parrot out of just your hand print? Sounds like a fun exercise, and a break from probably very dry "schooling".

- It's a bonding experience. Working with younger kids on an art project can be so much fun, and helps you see life through their eyes. Ever ask a child to explain why they used a certain color or to describe what's happening in a picture they've drawn? I am often surprised by the inner workings of the child mind.

- If any of the kids have developmental, emotional, physical issues, art therapy can be a great outlet for them. I was in an intensive therapy program and we did art once a week. At first I thought it was ridiculous, but it actually provided a lot of insight into what I was dealing with.

Just my thoughts. I love crafts and I am 41. Heck, I took my mom to a paint-your-own ceramics place a few years ago for her birthday. It was a great afternoon (and that's saying a lot because she is often hard to be around). We brought coffee and snacks and painted for hours.

[OkToBeTakei]

You can go straight from high school to a four-year college. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how most middle and upper-middle class young adults do it. The associate's degree is equal to the first two years of a four-year degree. So if you have money, you do all four years at university. The thing is, community college is waayy cheaper (at least where I live) and is often a friendlier option for non-traditional students (such as older students, students with kids, etc.), students who have to work full-time, and first generation college students. They often offer smaller classes, more evening classes, etc. For lower income people, a lot of times community college is their entry into higher education.

To my knowledge, an associate's degree doesn't get you very far, except maybe a ticket into a four-year college. You can do some trades with an associate's degree, such as being a police officer or a fire fighter. I think it's also possible to be an RN (registered nurse) with an associate's degree--can someone confirm?. You can also become a plumber or mechanic without a college degree, and I've heard those jobs can pay surprisingly well. But generally speaking, what I've listed above tends to be the higher end of the pay scale.

To become a lawyer, for instance, you have to have a 4-year degree (what we generally mean when we say a "college degree"), plus a law degree (which is an additional 3 years).

Edit: Formatting

Edit: You can also do a lot of tech jobs (like computer networking) without a college degree. You just take various certification tests instead.

That's really different. LONNNG! Once you gained your A' levels and are 17/18 you are good to go.

The Bachelor of Laws (LLB) programme is an exacting intellectual discipline and offers a thorough grounding in the principles of basic areas of the law. The degree can be studied to Ordinary level, requiring three years of full-time study, or to Honours level in four years of full-time study.

It seems the gap is somewhere between 16-18 in our respective systems. Highers and A'levels are HARD work a full on course of 2 years in 3-5 subjects with the exams taken in May/June with results in August and University entrance in Sept/Oct depending on exam results. We also as you describe have vocational colleges and apprentice programmes.

Here though college is college or tech and University is University which may add to my confusion.

Fascinating. (I'm weird that way :lol: )

Here nursing to that level was stopped a good few years back. EN's were enrolled nurses, now nursing is a University degree, Bachelor of Science.

Jill Duggar is a doula at most, or a pal you bring with you for support. There is no distance learning option for Midwifery here.

Year 1

In your first year you will study a range of subjects including nursing, health studies, social sciences, biological sciences, and moral philosophy and ethics. The focus of your study in first year is the healthy individual. However, you will have the opportunity to care for adults during the summer in a hospital setting.

Year 2

You will study adult nursing (the core subject), life science subjects and social science subjects.

Life science subjects include

Anatomy and physiology

Biochemistry

Pharmacology

Nutrition

Human biology.

Social science subjects are

Community nursing

Health promotion

Social policy

Research and ethics.

You will also have the opportunity to experience nursing first-hand in a hospital setting (adult medical and surgical nursing), and also in the community setting (district nursing, health visiting and public health nursing).

Year 3

The BN is offered as both a three-year programme and a four-year Honours programme. You will follow the same curriculum in third year, whether you are on the three- or four-year degree.

You will study

professional, ethical and moral issues

the application of information systems and nursing responsibilities related to specific drug treatments

a course in human disease and pathology, which is taught by internationally renowned clinicians

a research methods course that develops your awareness of research and the relevance of research for nursing practice

advancing clinical skills that will help prepare you for opportunities in clinical practice.

Year 4

If you are studying for a degree with Honours you will undertake a period of study over two semesters which incorporates the final 12 weeks of clinical practice consolidation. You will have the opportunity to investigate an area of interest related to clinical practice through a written dissertation. You will take courses on nursing policy in context and management for healthcare which will ensure that you have an understanding of health policy as it relates to nursing care, the factors affecting the delivery of healthcare and the key concepts of supporting future students in nursing.

[dairyfreelife]

You can go straight from high school to a four-year college. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that's how most middle and upper-middle class young adults do it. The associate's degree is equal to the first two years of a four-year degree. So if you have money, you do all four years at university. The thing is, community college is waayy cheaper (at least where I live) and is often a friendlier option for non-traditional students (such as older students, students with kids, etc.), students who have to work full-time, and first generation college students. They often offer smaller classes, more evening classes, etc. For lower income people, a lot of times community college is their entry into higher education.

To my knowledge, an associate's degree doesn't get you very far, except maybe a ticket into a four-year college. You can do some trades with an associate's degree, such as being a police officer or a fire fighter. I think it's also possible to be an RN (registered nurse) with an associate's degree--can someone confirm?. You can also become a plumber or mechanic without a college degree, and I've heard those jobs can pay surprisingly well. But generally speaking, what I've listed above tends to be the higher end of the pay scale.

To become a lawyer, for instance, you have to have a 4-year degree (what we generally mean when we say a "college degree"), plus a law degree (which is an additional 3 years).

Edit: Formatting

Edit: You can also do a lot of tech jobs (like computer networking) without a college degree. You just take various certification tests instead.

Yes, I think a lot of people do go straight into university from school. Law and medical degrees do require an extra 3-7 years of school beyond the 4-year degree.

No, you can't be an RN with an associates degree. You can be an LPN with an associates degree. There is a local program that allows a person to do nearly four years worth of school in two, but the catch is they have to be able to pass the test and from what I hear, that test is really difficult to do without the knowledge a bachelor's degree (BSN) provides and those with a BSN from an accredited university get priority over those without it when it comes to jobs.

The cost of college varies by state. Mine was not too expensive actually, for college. It also makes a difference if you can get a scholarship that will pay for at least some of your education. Going to local schools in your home state makes for a cheaper college experience. If you go out of state it costs almost three times the amount it does in your own state.

[OkToBeTakei]

Medicine is total about 7 years here. Still just 4 years University based and 3 working your way up via the NHS. Junior Doctor, Doctor, Registrar, Senior Registrar, Registrar, Consultant Specialist etc. Obviously still somewhat affiliated with academics just not necessarily one.

That is interesting about law. Although law systems are different the world over. Again progressing is done post-grad though.

I like our system probably because I am used to it, the one thing I do not like is the pressure on the 14-18 yr group. Picking subjects that interest you at age 14 may not actually fit with who you are at 24. Example my child enters Academy next year she will be one of the youngest in her year group and less than a year later we need to pick her GCSE subjects. She is 10. She goes from wanting to be a lawyer to a hairdresser and physicist in 10 minutes. Only this morning she told me she wanted to be a professional tennis player :lol:

Also whilst physicist may sound a lofty ambition apart from basic primary school knowledge THIS is based on Big Bang Theory love...Hmmmmm!!!

[Coconut Flan]

Legacies don't really count at state schools even Berkeley. There's no place in the point calculation for a legacy benefit. All the UCs use the same formula to determine admission standards.

[Verin Sedai]

Medicine is total about 7 years here. Still just 4 years University based and 3 working your way up via the NHS. Junior Doctor, Doctor, Registrar, Senior Registrar, Registrar, Consultant Specialist etc. Obviously still somewhat affiliated with academics just not necessarily one.

That is interesting about law. Although law systems are different the world over. Again progressing is done post-grad though.

I like our system probably because I am used to it, the one thing I do not like is the pressure on the 14-18 yr group. Picking subjects that interest you at age 14 may not actually fit with who you are at 24. Example my child enters Academy next year she will be one of the youngest in her year group and less than a year later we need to pick her GCSE subjects. She is 10. She goes from wanting to be a lawyer to a hairdresser and physicist in 10 minutes. Only this morning she told me she wanted to be a professional tennis player :lol:

Also whilst physicist may sound a lofty ambition apart from basic primary school knowledge THIS is based on Big Bang Theory love...Hmmmmm!!!

I am trying to figure this out... so you must pick subjects in the 14-18 age group (US high school) in order to determine what you'll be able to study at university or a professional level school?

In comparison, in the US you can take FOREVER to decide your focus/major... sometimes not even until the 3rd year of university, or you can completely change paths in the midst of university if you don't mind taking another couple of years. I had a friend in college (university) who started college the same year as I did, but graduated 3 or 4 years later because he made it to his senior (4th, final) year and decided that he wanted to be in music instead. Many of his previous courses he could use, but he had to account for all of the years of music lessons you usually would start in that program in your freshman (first) year.

You can also, in many states, enroll for free in community college during your last two years of high school (depending on your grades/tests) and earn an associate's and your high school diploma at the same time, then go on to full college for another two years to earn your professional level degree (BA/BS). I have a friend who did this as a homeschooler, so she was fully certified in her particular medical profession by age 20, when I think a "normal" path would have been 22-23.

[OkToBeTakei]

I am trying to figure this out... so you must pick subjects in the 14-18 age group (US high school) in order to determine what you'll be able to study at university or a professional level school?

In comparison, in the US you can take FOREVER to decide your focus/major... sometimes not even until the 3rd year of university, or you can completely change paths in the midst of university if you don't mind taking another couple of years. I had a friend in college (university) who started college the same year as I did, but graduated 3 or 4 years later because he made it to his senior (4th, final) year and decided that he wanted to be in music instead. Many of his previous courses he could use, but he had to account for all of the years of music lessons you usually would start in that program in your freshman (first) year.

You can also, in many states, enroll for free in community college during your last two years of high school (depending on your grades/tests) and earn an associate's and your high school diploma at the same time, then go on to full college for another two years to earn your professional level degree (BA/BS). I have a friend who did this as a homeschooler, so she was fully certified in her particular medical profession by age 20, when I think a "normal" path would have been 22-23.

Yes pretty much.

At the start of high school you have a mixed curriculum some are compulsory throughout until GCSE (subjects for which are chosen at age 12 -14.

My child will be 11 when she enters Academy so she will take 12 subjects but needs to decide at age 14 which 8 she will concentrate on in 4th year. GCSE year. She cannot do Highers or A'levels in subjects she has not already chosen. Some are compulsory in GCSE year. The 8 is neither maximum or minimum. There are also vocational subjects which are continual assessment for those not academically inclined. My other nephew has 4 vocational subject and 2 academic which will give him access to the course he is interested in.

It does make for pressure at an early age and is very focussed. Of course you can go back or re-do subjects if you do not make it or change your mind but it is not an easy path and makes for longer schooling. Although to do this generally costs no money, just time.

My niece for example failed 2 of her A'levels. Her parents let her take a year she worked in a local restaurant, saved her money then went travelling. Her original university although obviously rejecting her failed results, re-interviewed her and saw her hard work and life experience as a plus and offered her unconditional place based on her re-sits.Bottom line she was too young and immature at 17. By 19 she was ready.

[Elinor]

US universities require a diploma or GED usually, but they also require a test. There's two tests for college: ACT and SAT. Both of those tests had math, science, history, English/language arts/reading, and a writing section. These scores are used for entrance into college and if they are too low, community colleges are used for remedial courses before a student is allowed into a 4-year college. The higher the scores on the ACT or SAT exams, the more chance one has of getting into better schools and also the better chance for academic scholarships.

The SAT only has Mathematics, Critical Reading, and Writing. The ACT has English, mathematics, reading, and science reasoning. So, no science on the SAT and no history for either.

[Coconut Flan]

A levels are really equivalent to SAT II (achievement tests) or AP exams according to some college admission brochures.

[dairyfreelife]

The SAT only has Mathematics, Critical Reading, and Writing. The ACT has English, mathematics, reading, and science reasoning. So, no science on the SAT and no history for either.

True, but many college I know like to have a science score also. You can take a science test in addition to the regular subjects. The same goes for history. Depending on what a person's major is, science or history tests are also a great idea. Foreign language tests are also available for the SAT. Not so with the ACT. The ACT has a writing section also and while not required per say, colleges tend to favor those who take the writing section.

[OkToBeTakei]

So wait.

No Physics, Chemistry, Art, Biology, History, History of Art, PE, Spanish, French, Geography, Economics, Modern Studies, Politics, Home Ec. Tech drawing, Ethics, Computing, IT, this not the exhaustive IF exhausting list my child will be faced with at 14.

How can you know where your interest or talent is picqued if you are only expected to know the core subjects at that level?

[Coconut Flan]

The systems don't correlate well. Ours isn't one centralized system. Not a shock is that now? :)

One testing service does SAT I. That includes the basic core type things. Then there is SAT II which has achievement tests. Those can vary by person and by university/college. Many schools require two common tests and let students not take a third or choose a further test. Then there is a different testing system called ACT. It's a more book learning based test than the SAT I and covers a broader range of subjects. Just to complicate life we also have AP or Advanced Placement classes and tests and the International Baccalaureate program.

Different colleges/universities require different tests and treat the results in their own ways and sometimes for different purposes.

All of my kids have done SAT I, SAT II, a bundle of AP tests, and also earned IB diplomas. And yes I had the supreme pleasure of paying for each one of those tests. :)

[OkToBeTakei]

The systems don't correlate well. Ours isn't one centralized system. Not a shock is that now? :)

One testing service does SAT I. That includes the basic core type things. Then there is SAT II which has achievement tests. Those can vary by person and by university/college. Many schools require two common tests and let students not take a third or choose a further test. Then there is a different testing system called ACT. It's a more book learning based test than the SAT I and covers a broader range of subjects. Just to complicate life we also have AP or Advanced Placement classes and tests and the International Baccalaureate program.

Different colleges/universities require different tests and treat the results in their own ways and sometimes for different purposes.

All of my kids have done SAT I, SAT II, a bundle of AP tests, and also earned IB diplomas. And yes I had the supreme pleasure of paying for each one of those tests. :)

Holy shit! :( That sounds expensive.

IB sounds at least familiar. It is accepted here.

It is mind blowing really the differences.

I suppose familiarity helps. The one and only thing I have no problem with is exams. It's a tough world, sugar coating it helps nobody. If my kid is not academic at that age there are plenty of available options for fulfilling happy careers that will suit her personality and ability. University is just one.

I remember a friend going through ATC training and failing international flight control. He was really pissed off. I was thinking mate, if I'm on that plane you want the second chance on FECK OFF :lol:

[dairyfreelife]

So wait.

No Physics, Chemistry, Art, Biology, History, History of Art, PE, Spanish, French, Geography, Economics, Modern Studies, Politics, Home Ec. Tech drawing, Ethics, Computing, IT, this not the exhaustive IF exhausting list my child will be faced with at 14.

How can you know where your interest or talent is picqued if you are only expected to know the core subjects at that level?

You can take a lot of those classes and more in most high schools.

Here's what is required for graduation by district/county in my state (as an example, but this will vary by state and by districts within each state):

wvde.state.wv.us/institutional/CountyGradRequire.html

[Verin Sedai]

You can take a lot of those classes and more in most high schools.

Here's what is required for graduation by district/county in my state (as an example, but this will vary by state and by districts within each state):

wvde.state.wv.us/institutional/CountyGradRequire.html

But (IIRC) you're not tested on them for the regular SAT or ACT (college entrance exams). I don't know if I just went to really easy schools, but no one cared whether I had taken any of the SAT IIs or any AP, at least for the purposes of admission.

[Coconut Flan]

High school graduation requirements and college admission requirements are really two different animals. In Cali they sort of try to tailor graduation requirements to the CSU system. Someone who graduates and has done decently should meet basic college admission standards. That doesn't mean a selective UC is going to take them though. :)

Yes, OTBT, it was pricey but well worth it.

[Dysfundamental]

So wait.

No Physics, Chemistry, Art, Biology, History, History of Art, PE, Spanish, French, Geography, Economics, Modern Studies, Politics, Home Ec. Tech drawing, Ethics, Computing, IT, this not the exhaustive IF exhausting list my child will be faced with

These are offered as courses in US high schools. There just aren't national exams offered in all of them (though many have AP exams); US colleges/universities look at high school grades in subject areas in making admissions decisions.

[wildcatgrrl]

The U.S. also has community colleges, where people can work towards an associate's degree. These colleges tend to be "open admission" colleges, meaning that anyone can attend. That said, in my state, there is an additional requirement that you prove your college readiness before you can take courses that count towards your degree. I don't know the details (I didn't go to undergrad in my state), but I'm guessing you can be exempted from the college readiness test if you got a certain score on other standardized tests.

This is what I am doing. In Kentucky, the community college system uses the COMPASS test to determine placement if your ACT/SAT scores are over five years old. If those scores are more recent, you can use those for admission. I never took either test in high school (long story) but they'd be well over five years old anyway, so I took the COMPASS. While my math score was in the toilet, requiring me to take two remedial math classes prior to taking MAT 150 (College Algebra), my reading and writing scores allowed me to take ENG 105 and an elective of my choice instead of ENG 101 and 102 (yay for that!) They also had a required First Year Experience class, which didn't help me much, but would be useful for a younger person just starting out (one assignment was to create a budget...I'm 36 with three kids; I know budgeting.)

In addition to the benefit of open admission, attending a community college first allows students to get a lot of General Education requirements fulfilled while pursuing their associate's, at about 1/3-1/4 of the cost of the same courses at a four-year college. When I graduate next Spring, I will be eligible to enter the four-year college to pursue my Bachelor's as a Junior. Since I am also taking all my classes online, the community college system was a great place to start because I can take classes at ANY school in the community college system, so long as at least 25% are from my home campus. This has allowed me a greater choice of courses, including one that is a requirement for my minor, and more flexibility.

[Coconut Flan]

It depends on the school. Colleges and universities look at high school grades, test scores, number of advanced classes, recommendations, outside activities, etc when making decisions. Many schools use a point system where credit is given in each area and then a total assigned.