smiles and trials

[Cheetah]

I guess the other day was "paint a parrot day" at Smiles and Trials. smilesandtrials.blogspot.com/2013/09/paint-parrot-day.html

With fine school projects like that, those kids will be well-prepped to enter the workforce in a few years. (/sarcasm)

[dairyfreelife]

I believe the children are mostly homeschooled through a K12 program (and only about half of their children are being homeschooled anyway). This was just an art project and is really not much different than a lot of art projects I did at school. I don't agree with a lot of John and Christine's religious views, but I've been following their blog since I found it, around the time they brought Alex home. Despite disagreement on their politics and such, I actually like Christine.

[already hungover]

I believe the children are mostly homeschooled through a K12 program (and only about half of their children are being homeschooled anyway). This was just an art project and is really not much different than a lot of art projects I did at school. I don't agree with a lot of John and Christine's religious views, but I've been following their blog since I found it, around the time they brought Alex home. Despite disagreement on their politics and such, I actually like Christine.

Me too. She doesn't bother me at all.

[Emme]

Yeah, I like her. She's well-intentioned, I think. and a number of kids that she adopted have been from disruptions and they seem to have thrived.

[salex]

I guess the other day was "paint a parrot day" at Smiles and Trials. smilesandtrials.blogspot.com/2013/09/paint-parrot-day.html

With fine school projects like that, those kids will be well-prepped to enter the workforce in a few years. (/sarcasm)

What day was it? Perhaps it was to commemorate September 19-- International Talk like a Pirate day?

[FreeJosie]

I don't see anything wrong with it either; if they are supplementing a K-12 program with art classes, then that sounds fine.

[Sobeknofret]

I don't see anything wrong with it either. Sometimes it's necessary to just have a fun day as a mental break for everyone. If it was every day, then yeah, it would be a problem, but it looks like this was a one off project for the month.

[HomegirlRuby]

There's nothing "wrong" with it -- but those kids appear much too old for a project like that. Seems more like something fit for a 3-5 year old.

Not to say that I don't have fun doing things too "young" for my age or anyone that does is a freak - I just feel that they should at least do age appropriate things if they are being used as "learning experiences".

[dairyfreelife]

There's nothing "wrong" with it -- but those kids appear much too old for a project like that. Seems more like something fit for a 3-5 year old.

Not to say that I don't have fun doing things too "young" for my age or anyone that does is a freak - I just feel that they should at least do age appropriate things if they are being used as "learning experiences".

I'm not certain, but I think this was part of a curriculum they are using. The hand print seems young, but more like 5-8yr old young with making something out of the hand prints.

Regardless, the children actually seem okay overall. One son is in college now and three of their children had summer jobs. So far it seems they are doing a good job raising their children, so I can't criticize a minor art project that looks like fun.

[Cheetah]

There's nothing "wrong" with it -- but those kids appear much too old for a project like that. Seems more like something fit for a 3-5 year old.

Not to say that I don't have fun doing things too "young" for my age or anyone that does is a freak - I just feel that they should at least do age appropriate things if they are being used as "learning experiences".

Right.... I guess that's why I brought it up... not that it's all that bad in the scheme of all the other people we snark on here, but with a house full of high-school aged kids (as well as younger ones, but most of the photos in this post were of her older girls), this seemed like a project better suited for lower-elementary at best. I guess it depends on whether this is just something fun they do as a family (craft projects), or whether this is really considered part of the homeschooling curriculum.

[GawkingToo]

I guess it depends on whether this is just something fun they do as a family (craft projects), or whether this is really considered part of the homeschooling curriculum.

As of the early 2000s (when I graduated), my state (not California) didn't even have an art curriculum that I know of. We got art for 45 minutes once a week as a "special" in elementary school, and for most of elementary that was an art teacher with a cart who went from class to class. No arts classroom or anything like that. And my fifth grade year, we only had art one of the semesters, if I recall correctly. I had no "art" class in high school or middle school. Art was offered as an elective, as was drama and a few other things. I took drama. I don't know that there was any requirement that the elective had to be something creative though. Finally, in high school, I didn't take art either.

For the record, I went to highly competitive public school magnet programs for elementary and middle school. I went to my rather ghetto neighborhood school for high school.

My point in all this? I think sometimes FJ commenters overestimate the quality of the education average American gets. I got an excellent education in the magnet programs in elementary and middle school, but my high school experience was eye-opening for completely different reasons. I was part of a freshman class of about 800 and, four years later, one of 330 kids to graduate.** Of those, a significant portion likely had to take remedial courses in community college before they could move on to courses that would count towards their degree (if they were college-bound at all). Depending on how you do the accounting, my city's graduation rate was/is about 70%.

Everyone goes on and on about how awful it is that these homeschoolers graduate their kids with an 8th or 9th-grade level of education, how it's educational neglect, etc. Guess what? A significant portion of Americans end up with a similar level of education. About 20-30%--I'm guessing here; maybe someone can fill in the real numbers--drop out, and even among those who graduate, many don't end up any more prepared for college/life than the SDRT variety do. (And keep in mind, I'm guessing that those who drop out are often already behind by the time they do so, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if your average 10th grade drop out has less than a 10th grade level of education.)

And, yeah, I get that it's more annoying on fundie blogs because they actually brag about it, try to recruit others to that way of doing things, and won't admit that the education is substandard. But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. Why is it so appalling when it's just a handful of fundies but not when it's the reality of how the other half lives??

Sorry. Don't know how I ended up on that diatribe, when I just piped up to point out that it's not like art education is such a big deal anyways. (Though, in fairness, maybe it's a requirement in California, in which case the OP might have a legitimate beef about the family skirting the curriculum.)

**The number of freshman is somewhat inflated, as it included kids in their second year of high school who didn't have enough credits to count as sophomores. So it's not an entirely accurate view of graduation rates, but it gives you the idea.

[OkToBeTakei]

As of the early 2000s (when I graduated), my state (not California) didn't even have an art curriculum that I know of. We got art for 45 minutes once a week as a "special" in elementary school, and for most of elementary that was an art teacher with a cart who went from class to class. No arts classroom or anything like that. And my fifth grade year, we only had art one of the semesters, if I recall correctly. I had no "art" class in high school or middle school. Art was offered as an elective, as was drama and a few other things. I took drama. I don't know that there was any requirement that the elective had to be something creative though. Finally, in high school, I didn't take art either.

For the record, I went to highly competitive public school magnet programs for elementary and middle school. I went to my rather ghetto neighborhood school for high school.

My point in all this? I think sometimes FJ commenters overestimate the quality of the education average American gets. I got an excellent education in the magnet programs in elementary and middle school, but my high school experience was eye-opening for completely different reasons. I was part of a freshman class of about 800 and, four years later, one of 330 kids to graduate.** Of those, a significant portion likely had to take remedial courses in community college before they could move on to courses that would count towards their degree (if they were college-bound at all). Depending on how you do the accounting, my city's graduation rate was/is about 70%.

Everyone goes on and on about how awful it is that these homeschoolers graduate their kids with an 8th or 9th-grade level of education, how it's educational neglect, etc. Guess what? A significant portion of Americans end up with a similar level of education. About 20-30%--I'm guessing here; maybe someone can fill in the real numbers--drop out, and even among those who graduate, many don't end up any more prepared for college/life than the SDRT variety do. (And keep in mind, I'm guessing that those who drop out are often already behind by the time they do so, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if your average 10th grade drop out has less than a 10th grade level of education.)

And, yeah, I get that it's more annoying on fundie blogs because they actually brag about it, try to recruit others to that way of doing things, and won't admit that the education is substandard. But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. Why is it so appalling when it's just a handful of fundies but not when it's the reality of how the other half lives??

Sorry. Don't know how I ended up on that diatribe, when I just piped up to point out that it's not like art education is such a big deal anyways. (Though, in fairness, maybe it's a requirement in California, in which case the OP might have a legitimate beef about the family skirting the curriculum.)

**The number of freshman is somewhat inflated, it included kids in their second year of high school who didn't have enough credits to count as freshman. So it's not an entirely accurate view of graduation rates, but it gives you the idea.

Good to hear a different voice.

ETA.

My 'A' levels are Art, Art History. English and Spanish. :lol: I have no idea what the equivalent of 'A' level is in the US.

[Cheetah]

And, yeah, I get that it's more annoying on fundie blogs because they actually brag about it, try to recruit others to that way of doing things, and won't admit that the education is substandard. But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. Why is it so appalling when it's just a handful of fundies but not when it's the reality of how the other half lives??

Sorry. Don't know how I ended up on that diatribe, when I just piped up to point out that it's not like art education is such a big deal anyways. (Though, in fairness, maybe it's a requirement in California, in which case the OP might have a legitimate beef about the family skirting the curriculum.)

LOL, you are totally right :-). And I do live in CA so I should know better... (guess what my kids had/ have for art education in elementary school? A program called Art In Action which is a decent canned program but it's once a month and it's led by parent volunteers. Art is so not my area of interest or talent, so I stayed out of it until last year when no one else stepped up in one of my son's classes, so now I'm one of the monthly art instructors at the school... although frankly that's also why I felt qualified to snark on the parrots... if even I can teach 4th graders how to do an Audobon-inspired bird picture, I'm sure 14 year olds can do more than hand-parrots).

[dairyfreelife]

As of the early 2000s (when I graduated), my state (not California) didn't even have an art curriculum that I know of. We got art for 45 minutes once a week as a "special" in elementary school, and for most of elementary that was an art teacher with a cart who went from class to class. No arts classroom or anything like that. And my fifth grade year, we only had art one of the semesters, if I recall correctly. I had no "art" class in high school or middle school. Art was offered as an elective, as was drama and a few other things. I took drama. I don't know that there was any requirement that the elective had to be something creative though. Finally, in high school, I didn't take art either.

For the record, I went to highly competitive public school magnet programs for elementary and middle school. I went to my rather ghetto neighborhood school for high school.

My point in all this? I think sometimes FJ commenters overestimate the quality of the education average American gets. I got an excellent education in the magnet programs in elementary and middle school, but my high school experience was eye-opening for completely different reasons. I was part of a freshman class of about 800 and, four years later, one of 330 kids to graduate.** Of those, a significant portion likely had to take remedial courses in community college before they could move on to courses that would count towards their degree (if they were college-bound at all). Depending on how you do the accounting, my city's graduation rate was/is about 70%.

Everyone goes on and on about how awful it is that these homeschoolers graduate their kids with an 8th or 9th-grade level of education, how it's educational neglect, etc. Guess what? A significant portion of Americans end up with a similar level of education. About 20-30%--I'm guessing here; maybe someone can fill in the real numbers--drop out, and even among those who graduate, many don't end up any more prepared for college/life than the SDRT variety do. (And keep in mind, I'm guessing that those who drop out are often already behind by the time they do so, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if your average 10th grade drop out has less than a 10th grade level of education.)

And, yeah, I get that it's more annoying on fundie blogs because they actually brag about it, try to recruit others to that way of doing things, and won't admit that the education is substandard. But let's not lose sight of the bigger picture. Why is it so appalling when it's just a handful of fundies but not when it's the reality of how the other half lives??

Sorry. Don't know how I ended up on that diatribe, when I just piped up to point out that it's not like art education is such a big deal anyways. (Though, in fairness, maybe it's a requirement in California, in which case the OP might have a legitimate beef about the family skirting the curriculum.)

**The number of freshman is somewhat inflated, as it included kids in their second year of high school who didn't have enough credits to count as sophomores. So it's not an entirely accurate view of graduation rates, but it gives you the idea.

I forget and I live in the US and grew up in one of the poorest states. We has art once a week when I was elementary school. Though the teacher split her time between two local elementary schools. In middle school, it was semester each year. In high school it was an option. Long story, but I ended up taking it without much choice. Teacher was an asshole and I got a C on every single project we did. ANd no, it was not sloppy work on my part. I followed the rules and spent loads of time making my pieces lovely. I was proud of myself because I'm not an artist at all (I wish I was). But no matter what he gave me a C and sometimes he actually gave me a D and wouldn't really say why. :(

In college I had to take an art class. Was determined to do better, but she was not so mean on my work. I got an A on most things and maybe a couple Bs, but got an A in the course. We did simple pictures there also. One was just a picture of movement from construction paper. I made a railroad track. Everyone else did roads, so she liked my idea. It made me like art again, even though I still suck at making art. :lol:

[already hungover]

There's nothing "wrong" with it -- but those kids appear much too old for a project like that. Seems more like something fit for a 3-5 year old.

Not to say that I don't have fun doing things too "young" for my age or anyone that does is a freak - I just feel that they should at least do age appropriate things if they are being used as "learning experiences".

Some of her homeschooled children didn't attend school before they were adopted, so they probably never got to do things like making painted handprints. The project isn't necessarily "too young" if you consider their lack of early childhood experiences like arts and crafts. Maybe it sounds lame, but I think it's nice that she's trying to make up for experiences they missed out on while living in an orphanage.

[Emme]

Some of her homeschooled children didn't attend school before they were adopted, so they probably never got to do things like making painted handprints. The project isn't necessarily "too young" if you consider their lack of early childhood experiences like arts and crafts. Maybe it sounds lame, but I think it's nice that she's trying to make up for experiences they missed out on while living in an orphanage.

I was JUST thinking that. Also at least one of her kids has FAS, others may be developmentally behind.

[Iokaste]

I'm not a fan of homeschooling and I'd never concider it for my own kids (if I ever did procreate that is). The only thing I envy parents/kids in homeschooling when done right, is the option to include a lot more music, art, craft, dancing, etc.

I wasn't homeschooled, I've never heard of anyone doing that in my country, but I did attend a very, very small school (about 60 students k-8th), founded by hippies and my guess is that you'd be hard pressed finding a family that wasn't very left leaning in their political believes. Sometimes I'm surprised how much the approach of my former school

resembles that of some of these families, if you subtract all the religious indoctrination and general fear of other people/the gobernment!

Many families chose this school, because they did not believe the public schools would educate their children in anything but the "bare nessecities" and wanted a more "hands-on" approach to learning.

There is a huge number of subjects that never figured on my schedule including history, geography, social sciences, biology, literature, etc. Those areas were covered on "immersion days" which was every friday, when we'd focus on one subject all day.

All the way through we also had "electives" two full afternoons a week, which could be basically anything woodshop, cooking, baking, drama, music, basket weaving, pottery, bike maintenence, if a teacher felt qualified to teach it and thought some students would like it, it was taught.

I felt like sharing that because there seems to be a shared belief among politicians in Scandinavia, the UK and the US (which are were I read news papers and current affairs magazines from, maybe other places too?) that if we just focused more on reading, writing and math and took away even what is left of art and other "creative" ("-" because I believe all subjects should be creative, rant for another day) subjects our kids would do better and society would prosper.

Strangely I don't believe that and when I see were my former schoolmates are now with our relaxed, artsy, non-traditional schooling I see no proof that we are not good contributing citizens.

Sorry if that was too far of topic, but the discussion inspired me to shar :D

[FreeJosie]

I believe the children are mostly homeschooled through a K12 program (and only about half of their children are being homeschooled anyway). This was just an art project and is really not much different than a lot of art projects I did at school. I don't agree with a lot of John and Christine's religious views, but I've been following their blog since I found it, around the time they brought Alex home. Despite disagreement on their politics and such, I actually like Christine.

I read through her homeschooling posts, and she does seem to have a good handle on things. There are teachers who oversee her kids' work, and she is careful about choosing curriculum that meets the state's requirements. They're not doing the Wisdom Booklets, which is a very good thing!

[Sobeknofret]

I read through her homeschooling posts, and she does seem to have a good handle on things. There are teachers who oversee her kids' work, and she is careful about choosing curriculum that meets the state's requirements. They're not doing the Wisdom Booklets, which is a very good thing!

We looked at a K12 program for our son and decided against it. It's very, very good for some families though. It provides structure and tons of support for families, and it's a good way to ensure that kids are meeting state standards, if the state has them. Wasn't for us, but I'm glad her kids are finding it helpful.

[Lillybee]

Yes, at least two have FAS and more than a few do have learning disabilities. She knows them as individuals and wants the best education for all of them. Some of her children also have some severe medical problems, too. A few of her children also are from disrupted adoptions. I think that she is a very good mom of many.

[paganhomeschooler]

I'm not a fan of homeschooling and I'd never concider it for my own kids (if I ever did procreate that is). The only thing I envy parents/kids in homeschooling when done right, is the option to include a lot more music, art, craft, dancing, etc.

I wasn't homeschooled, I've never heard of anyone doing that in my country, but I did attend a very, very small school (about 60 students k-8th), founded by hippies and my guess is that you'd be hard pressed finding a family that wasn't very left leaning in their political believes. Sometimes I'm surprised how much the approach of my former school

resembles that of some of these families, if you subtract all the religious indoctrination and general fear of other people/the gobernment!

Many families chose this school, because they did not believe the public schools would educate their children in anything but the "bare nessecities" and wanted a more "hands-on" approach to learning.

There is a huge number of subjects that never figured on my schedule including history, geography, social sciences, biology, literature, etc. Those areas were covered on "immersion days" which was every friday, when we'd focus on one subject all day.

All the way through we also had "electives" two full afternoons a week, which could be basically anything woodshop, cooking, baking, drama, music, basket weaving, pottery, bike maintenence, if a teacher felt qualified to teach it and thought some students would like it, it was taught.

I felt like sharing that because there seems to be a shared belief among politicians in Scandinavia, the UK and the US (which are were I read news papers and current affairs magazines from, maybe other places too?) that if we just focused more on reading, writing and math and took away even what is left of art and other "creative" ("-" because I believe all subjects should be creative, rant for another day) subjects our kids would do better and society would prosper.

Strangely I don't believe that and when I see were my former schoolmates are now with our relaxed, artsy, non-traditional schooling I see no proof that we are not good contributing citizens.

Sorry if that was too far of topic, but the discussion inspired me to shar :D

That's actually my favorite part about homeschooling! We do music, art, hands on science projects, etc. nearly every day. My son is learning to knit! Not only is it a fun and functional art project, but it's also great for his fine motor issues. I can guarantee he wouldn't be doing that at school. Supposedly one of my girls is going to get to throw some pottery at school this year, though. I hope they actually get to do that. They were supposed to at our old district and never ended up doing it. I've got boards and boards on Pinterest of fun, educational projects that we work on. He is a very kinesthetic learner, so this is just great for him. I think it also helps him learn the reading, writing, and math better, as well. He is more likely to try to read directions for an experiment than read a passage out of a book. (He's got learning disabilities, so he really struggles with reading.) Anything to get him to read is a good thing, in my book.

[I live off the state]

My 'A' levels are Art, Art History. English and Spanish. :lol: I have no idea what the equivalent of 'A' level is in the US.

I was wondering this too so did a bit of digging - A-Levels are the equivalent of an American AS (associates) degree. An American high school diploma is equivalent to 5 GCSE/Standard Grades at A-C/1-4.

I am really surprised. I grew up wth undiagnosed ADD and was never a particularly great student and got 8 standard grades when I was 15. I think I will ease up on the home schoolers now that I realise how low the bar is.

[OkToBeTakei]

I was wondering this too so did a bit of digging - A-Levels are the equivalent of an American AS (associates) degree. An American high school diploma is equivalent to 5 GCSE/Standard Grades at A-C/1-4.

I am really surprised. I grew up wth undiagnosed ADD and was never a particularly great student and got 8 standard grades when I was 15. I think I will ease up on the home schoolers now that I realise how low the bar is.

Good job!

My nephew did his standard grades this year achieving 8, 5 'A's and 2 'B's he has struggled with dyslexia so it was really a great achievement as confidence was an issue. English, Maths, Geography, Music, Physics, Chemistry, Last two escape me I think Tech drawing and History.

He wants to be an engineer so now will sit 5 Highers (Scottish system) For his chosen course he will need minimum requirement.

Highers: AAAAA by end of S5 including Mathematics and Physics.

A-levels: A*AA including Mathematics and Physics.

IB: 36 points including Mathematics HL6 and Physics HL6.

As he'll only be 17 he will probably do sixth form studies which if he misses a grade is an opportunity to raise it or improve the grade to an 'A' level equivalent.

This is the fairly normal route into University so how do the US universities set their entry requirements if not through exams?

[I live off the state]

I have no idea how they do it (I am also scottish and eventually went to uni in finland).

I only got BCC (art, maths, physics) in my highers, I was doing more and resitting english but quit school and it took me 8 years befre I made it to university.

When I applied to uni in finland over 300 people applied for the 20 places. 100 were selected for entrance exam/interview (50 based on their highschool grades and 50 based on life experience - I got selected basedon life experience) then the top 20 scorers on the writtenexam and interview got in.

[dairyfreelife]

Good job!

My nephew did his standard grades this year achieving 8, 5 'A's and 2 'B's he has struggled with dyslexia so it was really a great achievement as confidence was an issue. English, Maths, Geography, Music, Physics, Chemistry, Last two escape me I think Tech drawing and History.

He wants to be an engineer so now will sit 5 Highers (Scottish system) For his chosen course he will need minimum requirement.

Highers: AAAAA by end of S5 including Mathematics and Physics.

A-levels: A*AA including Mathematics and Physics.

IB: 36 points including Mathematics HL6 and Physics HL6.

As he'll only be 17 he will probably do sixth form studies which if he misses a grade is an opportunity to raise it or improve the grade to an 'A' level equivalent.

This is the fairly normal route into University so how do the US universities set their entry requirements if not through exams?

US universities require a diploma or GED usually, but they also require a test. There's two tests for college: ACT and SAT. Both of those tests had math, science, history, English/language arts/reading, and a writing section. These scores are used for entrance into college and if they are too low, community colleges are used for remedial courses before a student is allowed into a 4-year college. The higher the scores on the ACT or SAT exams, the more chance one has of getting into better schools and also the better chance for academic scholarships.