Possible Lawsuit for Josh

[JenniferJuniper]

No cable. What happened on Kelly file?

Mostly they ran parts of the early June interviews with the Duggars.

Couple of their legal talking heads went over the possibility of Victim Number 5 suing. (one said she has no shot, the other says she could get millions. Mmmkay.) There was some talk about "the illegally released police report", but they admitted the Duggars wouldn't likely get a dime if they sued. She and her sidekick talked about the liberal conspiracy that brought down the Duggars (but he admitted advertisers don't tend to like child molesters very much) and how sad it was that Jill and Jessa "probably" won't get a show now. :violin:

[DeFrauder]

Here is the Kelly File Link in all its disgusting glory.

http://www.foxnews.com/shows/the-kelly-file.html

edit: and will someone please explain to Kelly why people would be angry at the daughters!

hurr durrr its because the libruls dont understand the conservative heartland. ugh how they get away with this nonsense is beyond me.

[ShepherdontheRock]

Well, I mean, if wanting children to be happy and protected against the scars of molestation and abuse is such a radical liberal value, then I guess there WAS in fact a liberal conspiracy against the Duggars. A liberal agenda to expose people that are more okay with molestatiom than they are same sex relationships with consenting adults.

fancy that.

Megyn Kelly pisses me off; it's painfully obvious she knows better, yet she continues to profit from being an ignorant tool. Except when someone argues white feminist issues. Then all of a sudden she's upset.

[RosyDaisy]

Jill and Jessa wouldn't get their own show without this scandal.

[HarleyQuinn]

Jill and Jessa could never carry their own show. It was bad enough seeing Jill get an entire season devoted to her.

Megyn Kelly is ridiculous. Half the time I don't think even she believes the shit she says. I go back and forth between her being completely fake or really that stupid.

[lascuba]

Jill and Jessa could never carry their own show. It was bad enough seeing Jill get an entire season devoted to her.

Megyn Kelly is ridiculous. Half the time I don't think even she believes the shit she says. I go back and forth between her being completely fake or really that stupid.

I think the majority of conservative pundits are smart of enough to know they're talking shit. Megyn Kelly has had enough moments of honest frustration with conservative bullshit that she HAS to know what's up. I still think she's conservative--more of the "fuck you, got mine" libertarian variety--but no way does she believe the far-right shit she spews.

[YoshiCat]

They probably found ways to fill his time. Prepearing for appearances and rehearsing his speeches (which he probably didn't write himself), going to dinner/lunch with leghumper politicians from all across the country, attending fundie/fundie-lite events, posting things on social media, joining the campagin trail of some ultra-conservative nutcase and so on.

Even if all he did was just reading all the mail he got from people and answering the easier ones himself, he was probably occupied the whole day.

I can't imagine Josh was working on strategies or planning or doing any of the kind of work done by people who have degrees and work experience. I think he was given an appearance schedule, a speechwriter and a speech coach. He was just a public face, a fundie celebrity, hired because of his last name.

[YoshiCat]

I am not a degreed law professional but it seems to me that the people to sure are Michelle and Jim Boob.

Josh was a minor, he asked for help and did what he was told by the people who were supposed to help him. I think it's unreasonable to expect him to have known what should have done and gone against his parents to do it. And I don't think he has a lot of assets.

Jim Boob and Michelle, on the other hand, were adults and had a responsibility to get Josh the right kind of help and to protect others from being molested by him.

I don't remember the timeline exactly, but I'm pretty sure the incident with the family friend/babysitter was after Josh had confessed to his parents. She can easily make the argument that if Jim Boob and Michelle had handled the situation properly then she would not have been molested. They were negligent and they have deep pockets.

[Coco]

I think the majority of conservative pundits are smart of enough to know they're talking shit. Megyn Kelly has had enough moments of honest frustration with conservative bullshit that she HAS to know what's up. I still think she's conservative--more of the "fuck you, got mine" libertarian variety--but no way does she believe the far-right shit she spews.

she did ask the media expert that question about why this show is canceled when other trashy reality shows continue. He kind of said what she was getting at, but he could have really ran with that and exposed the truth: their hypocrisy is what took them down, and their show was totally based on a lie that sheltering = safety. Once that facade fell away the game was up.

[Four is Enough]

I am not a degreed law professional but it seems to me that the people to sure are Michelle and Jim Boob.

Josh was a minor, he asked for help and did what he was told by the people who were supposed to help him. I think it's unreasonable to expect him to have known what should have done and gone against his parents to do it. And I don't think he has a lot of assets.

Jim Boob and Michelle, on the other hand, were adults and had a responsibility to get Josh the right kind of help and to protect others from being molested by him.

I don't remember the timeline exactly, but I'm pretty sure the incident with the family friend/babysitter was after Josh had confessed to his parents. She can easily make the argument that if Jim Boob and Michelle had handled the situation properly then she would not have been molested. They were negligent and they have deep pockets.

Not a degreed law professional, either, but I have had some experience with this sort of issue, as my own son, at 15, molested younger children. IT WAS A CRIMINAL ACT, and HE was held responsible. We were told that our participation in his therapy would be important in his recovery, but it was clearly he who was held responsible.

Now, under our state's criminal statutes, if there were damages, we as parents could have been held liable for those, since they were caused by our minor child. Damages, not punishment.

[JenniferJuniper]

Not a degreed law professional, either, but I have had some experience with this sort of issue, as my own son, at 15, molested younger children. IT WAS A CRIMINAL ACT, and HE was held responsible. We were told that our participation in his therapy would be important in his recovery, but it was clearly he who was held responsible.

Now, under our state's criminal statutes, if there were damages, we as parents could have been held liable for those, since they were caused by our minor child. Damages, not punishment.

15 year olds can be held civilly liable. They can drive in Arkansas, so are routinely sued in auto accident cases.

Josh would be the target defendant as the case against him is pretty straightforward. Jim Bob and Michelle would be sued for negligent supervision and it might be more challenging to establish a case of independent negligence against them. The plaintiff would probably have to prove they knew Josh was molester before she was assaulted and took no action by failing to keep him away from her or by not warning her that a sexual predator was lurking around. But if they knew about the Jill and Jessa touching before she was assaulted, she's probably got a pretty good case against them.

[DeFrauder]

she did ask the media expert that question about why this show is canceled when other trashy reality shows continue. He kind of said what she was getting at, but he could have really ran with that and exposed the truth: their hypocrisy is what took them down, and their show was totally based on a lie that sheltering = safety. Once that facade fell away the game was up.

Yes, but for whatever reason the media is adept at dodging the obvious point. It is not just minor issues like this one (it really is a minor issue in the grand scheme of American politics), but major issues of international importance.

Instead of simply dealing in facts, the media goes out of its way to confuse the viewers. It is like they have an agenda or something (hardy har).

[Coco]

Yes, but for whatever reason the media is adept at dodging the obvious point. It is not just minor issues like this one (it really is a minor issue in the grand scheme of American politics), but major issues of international importance.

Instead of simply dealing in facts, the media goes out of its way to confuse the viewers. It is like they have an agenda or something (hardy har).

ikr? Thank goodness for the internet, keep those manipulative jerks accountable and up to the minute, for anyone with an open mind who takes the time to search it out. Who knows what our parents unwittingly believed as truth back in the day. :shock: and yet people will STILL be lazy and believe crap Fox spews or articles with misleading titles on FB. :lol: There's just no excuse for ignorance anymore.

and the people i grew up around want to be willfully ignorant, like to the point of thinking it's not wise to educate their children well. :doh:

[DeFrauder]

Not a degreed law professional, either, but I have had some experience with this sort of issue, as my own son, at 15, molested younger children. IT WAS A CRIMINAL ACT, and HE was held responsible. We were told that our participation in his therapy would be important in his recovery, but it was clearly he who was held responsible.

Now, under our state's criminal statutes, if there were damages, we as parents could have been held liable for those, since they were caused by our minor child. Damages, not punishment.

It is brave of you to admit this. I can't imagine the horrible situation this was for your family.

Did you end up having to pay out damages?

I think that in the case of the Duggars, a case against them for damages would be strong if it could be shown that that they ignored or tried to circumvent state ordered therapy for Josh--and then afterward offended again while under their care. I agree they will never be found criminally responsible.

If you are willing, could you describe,IN GENERAL, what type of treatment is provided for a teenage offender?

I assume that when an offence is properly reported that the State (no matter which state) steps in and has policy that they follow.

[Four is Enough]

It is brave of you to admit this. I can't imagine the horrible situation this was for your family.

Did you end up having to pay out damages?

If you are willing, could you describe,IN GENERAL, what type of treatment is provided for a teenage offender?

I assume that when an offence is properly reported that the State (no matter which state) steps in and has policy that they follow.

We did not have to pay out damages. Our son was taken to court. The victims' parents were in court, and specific charges were read silently by the Juvenile Master. He was then found "involved", (our state doesn't find juveniles guilty per se) and commanded (not sentenced) to outpatient therapy. It was a specific therapy group for male juveniles with sexual behavior issues, run by the state, and it was mandatory, and it went until they felt the juvenile was through the program. They could keep a male till he was 21, and if they still didn't feel he was ready to go out and not re-offend, they could recommend to the court that he continue as an adult. (There are similar programs for females.)

If a juvenile did not progress in the therapy, (weekly, boys for 1.5 hour group, parents and boys twice monthly for addl 1.5 hour group, individual boy therapy at least monthly and family therapy at least monthly) they would recommend a "higher level of treatment" which meant, for our recalcitrant son, residential treatment. Daily therapy in group, at least weekly individual therapy and family therapy.

He spent nearly two years dawdling in outpatient therapy, and then went back to court for non-progress, and was placed in the residential center for another 15 months. Thank God he "got it"... there. He also, because it was a school for boys, finished his high school requirements and graduated a year late, but he has that diploma.

We worked as hard as we could to get him to progress in the outpatient therapy, but he needed that residential treatment, and we firmly believe he is now at lowest possible risk to re-offend. He (and we) learned a great deal about the cycle of offending, the various denial and rationalization techniques that the offenders use, and ways to identify and break the cycle. I actually laughed when I heard some of the things the Duggars said in the interview... they were clearly deep into the denial.

ETA: It has been a hellish time from that first call from a Detective with Crimes Against Children in Fall, 2010, until now, when he is still in after-care therapy. We are finally back into the light.

[YoshiCat]

Not a degreed law professional, either, but I have had some experience with this sort of issue, as my own son, at 15, molested younger children. IT WAS A CRIMINAL ACT, and HE was held responsible. We were told that our participation in his therapy would be important in his recovery, but it was clearly he who was held responsible.

Now, under our state's criminal statutes, if there were damages, we as parents could have been held liable for those, since they were caused by our minor child. Damages, not punishment.

Yes, your son was held responsible but it wasn't up to him to figure out what type of treatment he needed. My point is that Josh confessed and did what the adults in his life told him to do. He did the "therapy" he was told to do. We shouldn't expect a very sheltered 15 year-old to know that wasn't valid therapy and demand the proper therapy.

I'm truly sorry for everything you've been through with your son. But it sounds like you've handled the situation properly from the beginning and that your son is getting treatment that actually works. You didn't allow a situation where someone else could be victimized by your son.

What Josh did was horrible. But I have a little bit of sympathy for him. He was raised in a repressive home and isolated from society. He asked for help and didn't get the help he needed. The adults in his life failed him many, many times.

[DeFrauder]

I don't have any sympathy for Josh. I have lived through isolation and repression, too, and I didn't start abusing anyone. I knew what sex was, why I wasn't supposed to participate in it, and who I wasn't supposed to participate in it with-- long before I was 14 and 15. That is just considering consensual sex. I also heard everyone around me talk about how terrible pedophiles and gay people were from the moment I began to understand language. There is simply no way that Josh never got the memo. He got the memo. It is why he made his move while his victims were sleeping.

Plus, I believe that it is inappropriate to blame parents for crimes that children do. That issue pops up in politics every once in a while when someone insists that if it was the parents made responsible for their kid's crimes then the crimes would stop. They are usually referring to things like vandalism and stealing. The fact is that it will not work.

Yes, the Duggars did the wrong thing. They did the wrong thing because they were idiots. They continue to be idiots. But it wasn't JB and Michele that kept sexually abusing people.

[DeFrauder]

We did not have to pay out damages. Our son was taken to court. The victims' parents were in court, and specific charges were read silently by the Juvenile Master. He was then found "involved", (our state doesn't find juveniles guilty per se) and commanded (not sentenced) to outpatient therapy. It was a specific therapy group for male juveniles with sexual behavior issues, run by the state, and it was mandatory, and it went until they felt the juvenile was through the program. They could keep a male till he was 21, and if they still didn't feel he was ready to go out and not re-offend, they could recommend to the court that he continue as an adult. (There are similar programs for females.)

If a juvenile did not progress in the therapy, (weekly, boys for 1.5 hour group, parents and boys twice monthly for addl 1.5 hour group, individual boy therapy at least monthly and family therapy at least monthly) they would recommend a "higher level of treatment" which meant, for our recalcitrant son, residential treatment. Daily therapy in group, at least weekly individual therapy and family therapy.

He spent nearly two years dawdling in outpatient therapy, and then went back to court for non-progress, and was placed in the residential center for another 15 months. Thank God he "got it"... there. He also, because it was a school for boys, finished his high school requirements and graduated a year late, but he has that diploma.

We worked as hard as we could to get him to progress in the outpatient therapy, but he needed that residential treatment, and we firmly believe he is now at lowest possible risk to re-offend. He (and we) learned a great deal about the cycle of offending, the various denial and rationalization techniques that the offenders use, and ways to identify and break the cycle. I actually laughed when I heard some of the things the Duggars said in the interview... they were clearly deep into the denial.

ETA: It has been a hellish time from that first call from a Detective with Crimes Against Children in Fall, 2010, until now, when he is still in after-care therapy. We are finally back into the light.

Wow, what a horrific ordeal. Thanks so much for sharing. I hope everything goes well for all of you in the future.

It is too bad that Josh did not get the same kind of help and support.

[Four is Enough]

[

Yes, your son was held responsible but it wasn't up to him to figure out what type of treatment he needed. My point is that Josh confessed and did what the adults in his life told him to do. He did the "therapy" he was told to do. We shouldn't expect a very sheltered 15 year-old to know that wasn't valid therapy and demand the proper therapy.

I'm truly sorry for everything you've been through with your son. But it sounds like you've handled the situation properly from the beginning and that your son is getting treatment that actually works. You didn't allow a situation where someone else could be victimized by your son.

What Josh did was horrible. But I have a little bit of sympathy for him. He was raised in a repressive home and isolated from society. He asked for help and didn't get the help he needed. The adults in his life failed him many, many times.

My point is that my son had treatment that was demanded by the state. Let me assure you that when this began, Mr. Four and I were completely flabbergasted at the mere suggestion that our son would have done such a thing. We were quickly told that once a small child accuses someone that much older, the State progresses as if the offender were guilty, because "small children don't lie about that."

THIS is why I am so offended at what Josh both did and got away with doing. As a parent, I would have moved heaven and earth to "keep my son away from the bad influences" (as the Duggars said about the secular group that Josh would have had therapy with) but guess what? THAT GROUP is eventually what got my son on the right track. As I explained this therapy in much more detail in Josh the molester threads in the past, the people who've done what you did know exactly what your rationalizations are going to be, what your lies are going to be, and how to break the cycle.

I am further offended at the thought that Josh and his parents were somehow held above the law. NOBODY should have the right to "opt out" of something like that. We tried to get our son in therapy privately with the one and only private physician who deals with sexual offenders, too. (Instead of the state-mandated therapy.) The State wasn't buying it. (Not to mention that this doc would have bankrupted us with fees, and dealt primarily with adult offenders.) It was this outpatient treatment, or jail, basically. I cannot believe that Arkansas has such different laws.

So, in a nutshell, (too late, I know :lol: ) It wasn't up to my son to determine the therapy he needed. Neither was it up to his parents. The State should have been all over this. Why weren't they?

ETA: Oh, and the therapy was completely provided by the State. There were no fees. So "Josh paid for his therapy?" Bull-puckey.

[ShepherdontheRock]

I don't have any sympathy for Josh. I have lived through isolation and repression, too, and I didn't start abusing anyone. I knew what sex was, why I wasn't supposed to participate in it, and who I wasn't supposed to participate in it with-- long before I was 14 and 15. That is just considering consensual sex. I also heard everyone around me talk about how terrible pedophiles and gay people were from the moment I began to understand language. There is simply no way that Josh never got the memo. He got the memo. It is why he made his move while his victims were sleeping.

Plus, I believe that it is inappropriate to blame parents for crimes that children do. That issue pops up in politics every once in a while when someone insists that if it was the parents made responsible for their kid's crimes then the crimes would stop. They are usually referring to things like vandalism and stealing. The fact is that it will not work.

Yes, the Duggars did the wrong thing. They did the wrong thing because they were idiots. They continue to be idiots. But it wasn't JB and Michele that kept sexually abusing people.

I only have sympathy for Josh in the sense that he had these harmful beliefs shoved down his throat as a child and probably hasn't ever been able to look at them from a critical perspective. I don't feel sorry for anything that has happened to him as a result of his abusing people. He managed to escape legal accountability and even was still probably the favorite son for quite a while. And got a job he had no real qualifications for. And got to be famous.

And I think it's entirely appropriate that people blame JB and JChelle for this, too. While Josh is responsible for his own actions, Jimchelle did not do anything, really, to keep those girls safe after they knew 2 had been molested. And I'm of the belief that if you are unwilling to protect children from a known abuser, you're just as bad as the abuser themselves.

[J.O.Y.nomore]

Yes, your son was held responsible but it wasn't up to him to figure out what type of treatment he needed. My point is that Josh confessed and did what the adults in his life told him to do. He did the "therapy" he was told to do. We shouldn't expect a very sheltered 15 year-old to know that wasn't valid therapy and demand the proper therapy.

I'm truly sorry for everything you've been through with your son. But it sounds like you've handled the situation properly from the beginning and that your son is getting treatment that actually works. You didn't allow a situation where someone else could be victimized by your son.

What Josh did was horrible. But I have a little bit of sympathy for him. He was raised in a repressive home and isolated from society. He asked for help and didn't get the help he needed. The adults in his life failed him many, many times.

First of all, Four is Enough, I really appreciate all you've shared about your personal experiences. Your insights make me look at the issue differently and I'm grateful. Based on what you've shared, you seem like a strong person and a great parent.

Yoshicat: I agree with your bolded statement. Actually, I agree with everything in your post, but I wanted to address the bolded part. Josh is without a doubt responsible for his actions, HE made the choice to molest other children. However, he grew up in a home that told him males can't control their urges. He also had no normal outlet for sexuality. If the Gawker article is to be believed, the Duggar punishment for masturbating is worse than the punishment for molesting younger siblings. I just think they messed him up royally. Granted, not all boys raised Gothardite are molesters, but I think the messages the kids grow up with make it much easier for the boys to rationalize their behavior.

However, I think he should have been held criminally accountable, in juvenile court, for his actions. He is the culpable one.

That said, once Michelle and Jim Bob knew about the abuse and did not take adequate steps to keep other children safe, I believe they are criminally liable for Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.

5-27-209. Contributing to the delinquency of a minor.

(a) A person commits the offense of contributing to the delinquency of a minor if, being an adult, the person knowingly aids, causes, or encourages a minor to:

(1) Do any act prohibited by law;

(2) Do any act that if done by an adult would render the adult subject to a prosecution for an offense punishable by imprisonment;

(3) Habitually absent himself or herself, without good or sufficient cause, from the minor's home without the consent of the minor's parent, stepparent, foster parent, guardian, or other lawful custodian;

(4) Habitually absent himself or herself from school when required by law to attend school; or

(5) Habitually disobey a reasonable and lawful command of the minor's parent, stepparent, foster parent, guardian, or other lawful custodian.

(b) Contributing to the delinquency of a minor is a Class A misdemeanor.

from A.C.A. § 5-27-209

I haven't read Arkansas case law and I might be over reaching here, :embarrassed: but I think they aided him by not providing adequate treatment or safe guards. Once the molestations occurred again, they knew their safeguards weren't enough; yet all they did was send him away for a few months. Moreover, they encouraged him by propagating rationalizations like men can't control their lust, therefore women must cover up, and God forgave him so everything is fine now. What rational person thinks their reaction would stop the abuse? Because no rational person would believe their reaction would stop a predatory molester, they aided his molestation. Plus, they helped him avoid prosecution, by not reporting the abuse until the statute of limitations passed. I'm not being clear or concise. :sigh:

[ShepherdontheRock]

First of all, Four is Enough, I really appreciate all you've shared about your personal experiences. Your insights make me look at the issue differently and I'm grateful. Based on what you've shared, you seem like a strong person and a great parent.

Yoshicat: I agree with your bolded statement. Actually, I agree with everything in your post, but I wanted to address the bolded part. Josh is without a doubt responsible for his actions, HE made the choice to molest other children. However, he grew up in a home that told him males can't control their urges. He also had no normal outlet for sexuality. If the Gawker article is to be believed, the Duggar punishment for masturbating is worse than the punishment for molesting younger siblings. I just think they messed him up royally. Granted, not all boys raised Gothardite are molesters, but I think the messages the kids grow up with make it much easier for the boys to rationalize their behavior.

However, I think he should have been held criminally accountable, in juvenile court, for his actions. He is the culpable one.

That said, once Michelle and Jim Bob knew about the abuse and did not take adequate steps to keep other children safe, I believe they are criminally liable for Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.

from A.C.A. § 5-27-209

I haven't read Arkansas case law and I might be over reaching here, :embarrassed: but I think they aided him by not providing adequate treatment or safe guards. Once the molestations occurred again, they knew their safeguards weren't enough; yet all they did was send him away for a few months. Moreover, they encouraged him by propagating rationalizations like men can't control their lust, therefore women must cover up, and God forgave him so everything is fine now. What rational person thinks their reaction would stop the abuse? Because no rational person would believe their reaction would stop a predatory molester, they aided his molestation. Plus, they helped him avoid prosecution, by not reporting the abuse until the statute of limitations passed. I'm not being clear or concise. :sigh:

Josh having no outlet for his sexuality is probably a problem, but it's not the problem of any of his victims (including his then 5-year-old sister)

RE arkansas law, they could have also been charged with endangering the welfare of a minor in the second or third degree. Or permitting the abuse of a minor. Or even neglect of a minor resulting in delinquency.

http://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/20 ... /5-27-206/

http://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/20 ... /5-27-207/

http://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/20 ... /5-27-221/

http://law.justia.com/codes/arkansas/20 ... /5-27-222/

Endangering the welfare in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor (up to a year in jail and $2500) and in the third degree a class B misdemeanor (90 days in jail, $1000.) Permitting the abuse of a minor would be a class D felony (up to 6 years and $10,000), possibly a class B (5 to 20 years, $15000.) Neglect results in a $250 fine.

Despite what my current post count says, I'm not actually a degreed law professional, and haven't really read case law. But I'm just saying they better be thanking their lucky stars the SOL has run...

[jendall]

On a related topic, what became of that 911 call last month by AR child protection personnel re. being barred from checking on a Duggar child at the compound?

[YoshiCat]

First of all, Four is Enough, I really appreciate all you've shared about your personal experiences. Your insights make me look at the issue differently and I'm grateful. Based on what you've shared, you seem like a strong person and a great parent.

Yoshicat: I agree with your bolded statement. Actually, I agree with everything in your post, but I wanted to address the bolded part. Josh is without a doubt responsible for his actions, HE made the choice to molest other children. However, he grew up in a home that told him males can't control their urges. He also had no normal outlet for sexuality. If the Gawker article is to be believed, the Duggar punishment for masturbating is worse than the punishment for molesting younger siblings. I just think they messed him up royally. Granted, not all boys raised Gothardite are molesters, but I think the messages the kids grow up with make it much easier for the boys to rationalize their behavior.

However, I think he should have been held criminally accountable, in juvenile court, for his actions. He is the culpable one.

That said, once Michelle and Jim Bob knew about the abuse and did not take adequate steps to keep other children safe, I believe they are criminally liable for Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor.

from A.C.A. § 5-27-209

I haven't read Arkansas case law and I might be over reaching here, :embarrassed: but I think they aided him by not providing adequate treatment or safe guards. Once the molestations occurred again, they knew their safeguards weren't enough; yet all they did was send him away for a few months. Moreover, they encouraged him by propagating rationalizations like men can't control their lust, therefore women must cover up, and God forgave him so everything is fine now. What rational person thinks their reaction would stop the abuse? Because no rational person would believe their reaction would stop a predatory molester, they aided his molestation. Plus, they helped him avoid prosecution, by not reporting the abuse until the statute of limitations passed. I'm not being clear or concise. :sigh:

I want to be clear: I believe Josh is responsible for his actions and should have been held accountable. I think this Duggar/Gothard/Christian "just say you're sorry and everything is fine" attitude does not hold people accountable. My sympathy for Josh is that he asked for help and didn't get what he needed. And if he knew that the "therapy" he was getting wasn't helping him, he couldn't say that and didn't have anywhere else to turn.

I don't fault Josh for not getting the right kind of therapy. That was Jim Boob and Michelle's responsibility. They share blame and responsibility for every incident that occurred after Josh confessed to them. My original point was that if a victim is going to sure for damages, she should also sue Jim Boob and Michelle because they share responsibility. And they need to be held accountable.

I also wonder what other actions (or lack of) on their part contributed to Josh doing this. Would he still have done it if he wasn't raised in such a sexually repressive atmosphere? Did their "females must be modest because males can't control themselves" belief give Josh the idea that he'd never be able to control these urges so he shouldn't even try? Did he think it didn't matter if he did it again because he could just say he was sorry and be completely off the hook?

I feel like I've stirred up a hornets' nest here. I never meant to give the impression that I thought Josh wasn't responsible for what he did or that he shouldn't be held accountable.

[FundieFarmer]

I see what you're saying, YoshiCat.

Josh did know what he was doing was wrong-the police report said as much, as did JB & M. I don't think that Josh knew, at the time, that how it was handled was wrong given his extremely limited frame of reference.