Everything Josh Duggar, Child Molester - Part 7

[awkwardblackchick]

New Duggar stories from Gawker!

http://defamer.gawker.com/jim-bobs-punishment-for-masturbators-crazy-duggar-tale-1707675683

(future sorry if this was already posted)

[silvia]

Someone may have brought it up, but a writer named Courtney Enlow wrote this scathing post last week about the Josh Duggar situation: http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/the- ... r-show.php

I'm thinking this was NOT written by the same Courtney Enlow who's married to Scott Enlow, director of 19KAC -- the Duggar girls gushed about their closeness to the Enlows in Growing Up Duggar, even recounting how Courtney's water broke during filming in China and the Enlows' baby was born early. Any thoughts? Is this writer just impersonating the real Courtney Enlow for shock value?

[moriah]

So I know people were speculating in the last thread that Holt had violated mandated reporter laws? But if people are already contacting news outlets by directly e-mailing them isn't it also relevant to discuss that he may be connected to one of the victims?

In fact, this information not being discussed may actually serve to out the victim. I'm not sure we know that he violated mandated reporting laws considering the possibility potentially that he considered the police already involved? But if the news media runs with this story that may ultimately put the girl at the forefront.

I'm more interested in the fact that Hold worked as a counselor for underage sexual offenders at Piney Ridge? WTF does that have to do with any of is vocational interests and its weird that its another random connection to underage sex abuse.

Again, feel free to censure me if I'm off base. I do tend to shoot from the hip when on the internet commenting which is why I basically lurked here for so long.

Obligations as a mandated reporter are very strict. (I'm a mandated reporter in Arkansas, so I've had to take the training.)

1) When a mandated reporter has reason to believe that a child is being abused or neglected, they must report the abuse. Not when they have proof of abuse, or when they are sure the child is telling the truth, but when they suspect abuse.

2) The mandated reporter must make the report themselves. Merely notifying a supervisor of their suspicions does not fulfill their obligation to make their mandated report. The supervisor cannot make their report for them; if the supervisor is also personally aware of relevant information they may make their report jointly, but assuming someone else has reported it does not remove mandated reporting requirements. It is a violation of Arkansas law to tell an employee who is a mandated reporter that they must consult a supervisor before reporting suspected abuse or neglect. Just telling the family to go to the police is certainly not acceptable or sufficient.

3) The mandated report must be made immediately. Not after they've conducted an investigation, not after they've notified the parents, not after they've contacted their supervisor, not after 24 hours or some arbitrary waiting period. Certainly not after church discipline is complete or after the abuser has completed treatment. Immediately. No excuses.

4) The report must be made to the proper authorities. Not (only) the local police station, or a police officer who knows the family. Instead, the report must be made to the state Child Abuse Hotline.

The police report indicates it was the church elders' decision that law enforcement had to be involved, but that it was made only after Josh came back from "training". So I think Holt knew that the police had not yet been notified. But I think his reporting obligations would have come into play unless he learned of the abuse only as a result of an investigation already in progress by the State. It's a law crafted to ensure personal responsibility, not passing the buck.

[Eleemosynary]

You don't have religious freedom at work in any state if it is seen as offensive to anyone else. You should be allowed to have passive objects such as a small cross hanging from your lamp, or bible sitting on your desk. But you can't have a poster with scripture or anything overtly preachy.

I however agree that in most circumstances it is best to steer clear of Politics or religion at work unless you really know your coworkers.

I abide by the do not discuss religion or politics at work. It is not worth the possible consequences to my career. Also I do not friend coworkers or clients on Facebook. It's not worth it. If work wanted me to use Facebook, I'd make a Facebook profile meant for work.

So I wouldn't discuss the Duggars with my fundie coworkers further. They could always give another reason for letting you go. And MistressMimi, you've already got her reaction. She doesn't think what Josh did is a big deal. All further discussion could do is annoy the people you work for.

[formergothardite]

Off Topic:

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that the newbies who register here are "blanket trained"? By that I mean we get a verbal slap the second we crawl off the FJ rule blanket.

Maybe that's why, after about 30 posts you get the level header "blanket trained."

:whistle:

Of all the forums I have posted on FJ has the least amount of rules, but I can see how it can seem very rule oriented for people who just joined, are jumping into the Duggar threads and don't know a lot about Gothard.

My advice to newbies is to not stay in the Duggar threads but go to Snark. You will learn a ton about the board culture there and plus learn about new fundies like, Jill, the lady who literally puts her baby in a cage in a RV closet. Also, be prepared that threads do not stay on topic, and it is okay.

[apandaaries]

OT to the Holt discussion, but relevant to the cover up speculation. I've been trying to keep up and I haven't seen this posted yet. Apologies if it's a duplicate. Apparently, there are now investigations into the Arkansas DHS system:

rawstory.com/2015/05/not-just-the-duggars-arkansas-dhs-keeps-giving-christian-conservatives-a-pass-on-child-abuse/

I'd be interested to see what, if anything, these investigations turn up.

This is good news, AND it involves the Harris case. Excellent. I hope they find lots of information and ways to punish these people who keep covering up for child abusers.

[Hera]

New Duggar stories from Gawker!

http://defamer.gawker.com/jim-bobs-punishment-for-masturbators-crazy-duggar-tale-1707675683

(future sorry if this was already posted)

Of course, Jim Bob always wants the automatic gratuity (usually for 6 or more people) removed from his bill and he's a shitty tipper. Of course. As a former waitress who can well imagine the horrors of waiting on a table with that many children, this just solidifies my disgust for this man.

[apandaaries]

Of course, Jim Bob always wants the automatic gratuity (usually for 6 or more people) removed from his bill and he's a shitty tipper. Of course. As a former waitress who can well imagine the horrors of waiting on a table with that many children, this just solidifies my disgust for this man.

I bet he also leaves pictures of his family and those stupid fake million dollar soul-winning/conversion bills, too, and considers that adequate as a tip.

[moriah]

Article on the Holt story!

http://starcasm.net/archives/317427

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Of course, Jim Bob always wants the automatic gratuity (usually for 6 or more people) removed from his bill and he's a shitty tipper. Of course. As a former waitress who can well imagine the horrors of waiting on a table with that many children, this just solidifies my disgust for this man.

It was known around town that they knew the days when loc restaurants allowed children to eat free and they would abuse that so much that some very well known restaurants changed their policies. Of course after that the Duggars wouldn't return there.

I always thought it was very un christian behavior to abuse a system like that.

[OkToBeTakei]

Hi, thanks for the answer. I'm not offended and am quite snarky myself. I just think older members need to be cognisant of the fact that this forum is not easy to navigate for new users. The GUI is based off a 1998 message board. And there is an OVER-ABUNDANCE of text in every corner of this site. Nothing really stood out for me. I see the warning now (duh), but before I was flying through pages using the ctrl+F feature to search for keywords. So I wasn't even really looking at the beginning of the threads. A little understanding goes a looooooong way

I'm not a new member, I just read the thread I'm going to post in. All of it. That way I don't have to repeat everybody else's post or get told a hundred times I'm repeating other's posts. Not rocket science.

Problem about understanding is you are just about the 50th person looking for it this week. You are looking for understanding after admitting you are skim reading and not reading thread headers. Don't take it personally, folks will keep saying it until hopefully it will sink in, which is unlikely, as it is being said roughly EVERY THIRD PAGE! yet.......here we are.

My take on it is, it pisses me off that people do not take the time to AT LEAST read the last thread if not all the threads on this topic. Most likely their query or thought has been addressed. In that way they would have the opportunity to participate in a meaningful way, rather than just a here's a random thought off the top of my head that needs to be SEEN NOW! Patience...and a little time.

This is not purely directed at the quoted poster, just a general whinge/rant/moan.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Article on the Holt story!

http://starcasm.net/archives/317427

Woohoo. I bet they read your post and did some research because it was just posted this hour.

[hennypenny]

I can't remember if it was in here. Wasn't the judge married to a piney ridge employee? Or maybe I heard that somewhere else. I have always thought that the fins/dhs case went bad and to cover it up they've destroyed the case files. Like Moriah said, I wish Josh was sent to piney ridge, even in 2007 when they were investigated it wasn't too late.

[Hera]

I bet he also leaves pictures of his family and those stupid fake million dollar soul-winning/conversion bills, too, and considers that adequate as a tip.

Wait, what? This is a thing? I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

It was known around town that they knew the days when loc restaurants allowed children to eat free and they would abuse that so much that some very well known restaurants changed their policies. Of course after that the Duggars wouldn't return there.

I always thought it was very un christian behavior to abuse a system like that.

After all we now know, I don't know why this renders me speechless, but the sheer audacity of this man is unbelievable. Can you imagine walking in and wanting like 15 kids to eat for free? What the actual fuck?

[Snarkle Motion]

Obligations as a mandated reporter are very strict. (I'm a mandated reporter in Arkansas, so I've had to take the training.)

1) When a mandated reporter has reason to believe that a child is being abused or neglected, they must report the abuse. Not when they have proof of abuse, or when they are sure the child is telling the truth, but when they suspect abuse.

2) The mandated reporter must make the report themselves. Merely notifying a supervisor of their suspicions does not fulfill their obligation to make their mandated report. The supervisor cannot make their report for them; if the supervisor is also personally aware of relevant information they may make their report jointly, but assuming someone else has reported it does not remove mandated reporting requirements. It is a violation of Arkansas law to tell an employee who is a mandated reporter that they must consult a supervisor before reporting suspected abuse or neglect. Just telling the family to go to the police is certainly not acceptable or sufficient.

3) The mandated report must be made immediately. Not after they've conducted an investigation, not after they've notified the parents, not after they've contacted their supervisor, not after 24 hours or some arbitrary waiting period. Certainly not after church discipline is complete or after the abuser has completed treatment. Immediately. No excuses.

4) The report must be made to the proper authorities. Not (only) the local police station, or a police officer who knows the family. Instead, the report must be made to the state Child Abuse Hotline.

The police report indicates it was the church elders' decision that law enforcement had to be involved, but that it was made only after Josh came back from "training". So I think Holt knew that the police had not yet been notified. But I think his reporting obligations would have come into play unless he learned of the abuse only as a result of an investigation already in progress by the State. It's a law crafted to ensure personal responsibility, not passing the buck.

I am also a mandated reporter and have taken the training as part of several different roles I work in. Perhaps its different in my state but you have the option to report to the child abuse hotline or LOCAL POLICE. Making a report to local police would be sufficient to fulfill your mandated reporting duties. My point being if Holt had actually been someone who instigated the police report or was participating in the report vis a vis having an underage relative involved in the investigation he would have fulfilled mandated reporting laws.

[louisa05]

Of course, Jim Bob always wants the automatic gratuity (usually for 6 or more people) removed from his bill and he's a shitty tipper. Of course. As a former waitress who can well imagine the horrors of waiting on a table with that many children, this just solidifies my disgust for this man.

There is an article on salon today by a woman who grew up in ATI. She wrote that men and boys are told to sit by the wall in a restaurant so they can turn away from potentially immodest waitresses, so the not talking to the waitress thing fits perfectly with that.

[Hera]

Woohoo. I bet they read your post and did some research because it was just posted this hour.

Nice! Oh, the irony if the Duggars, Self-Proclaimed Poster Children for the Fundie Lifestyle, are the ones who bring the entire house of cards down. And all because they just couldn't help themselves from using their "perfect family" fame to spread the hate.

[Luvchild]

Of all the forums I have posted on FJ has the least amount of rules, but I can see how it can seem very rule oriented for people who just joined, are jumping into the Duggar threads and don't know a lot about Gothard.

My advice to newbies is to not stay in the Duggar threads but go to Snark. You will learn a ton about the board culture there and plus learn about new fundies like, Jill, the lady who literally puts her baby in a cage in a RV closet. Also, be prepared that threads do not stay on topic, and it is okay.

I'm an old poster but really I don't post too much - kind of went away for awhile- seems like nowadays there's a lot of forum police in here - I don't remember everyone being so easily annoyed - please don't jump on me or explain why that is - just my opinion and this is just a message board

[JessaJessa]

New Duggar stories from Gawker!

http://defamer.gawker.com/jim-bobs-punishment-for-masturbators-crazy-duggar-tale-1707675683

(future sorry if this was already posted)

Best comment to the new Gawker story... "Tying hands together to prevent jerking off? CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, JIM BOB!"

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Nice! Oh, the irony if the Duggars, Self-Proclaimed Poster Children for the Fundie Lifestyle, are the ones who bring the entire house of cards down. And all because they just couldn't help themselves from using their "perfect family" fame to spread the hate.

It would be so sweet. I can imagine now everyone connected to the Case is checking themselves.

[armedandlazy]

Problem about understanding is you are just about the 50th person looking for it this week. You are looking for understanding after admitting you are skim reading and not reading thread headers. Don't take it personally, folks will keep saying it until hopefully it will sink in, which is unlikely, as it is being said roughly EVERY THIRD PAGE! yet.......here we are.

My take on it is, it pisses me off that people do not take the time to AT LEAST read the last thread if not all the threads on this topic. Most likely their query or thought has been addressed. In that way they would have the opportunity to participate in a meaningful way, rather than just a here's a random thought off the top of my head that needs to be SEEN NOW! Patience...and a little time.

This is not purely directed at the quoted poster, just a general whinge/rant/moan.

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

[nst]

Of all the forums I have posted on FJ has the least amount of rules, but I can see how it can seem very rule oriented for people who just joined, are jumping into the Duggar threads and don't know a lot about Gothard.

My advice to newbies is to not stay in the Duggar threads but go to Snark. You will learn a ton about the board culture there and plus learn about new fundies like, Jill, the lady who literally puts her baby in a cage in a RV closet. Also, be prepared that threads do not stay on topic, and it is okay.

are you serious about Jill putting IDDY in a cage :D

I miss Ben and Jessa

[SassyPants]

Wait, what? This is a thing? I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.

After all we now know, I don't know why this renders me speechless, but the sheer audacity of this man is unbelievable. Can you imagine walking in and wanting like 15 kids to eat for free? What the actual fuck?

JB worships money.

Look, he sold his family to the media as morally superior fully knowing that this was in the family's recent history.

He put fame and money over his family's privacy.

[OkToBeTakei]

Oh calm the fuck down. Nobody said you had to read the whole site.

You have the time to write long arsed posts complaining though. One thread is not too much to ask. Now really is it?

[nst]

See this is the problem. I came on here AFTER these mega threads started. The first thread I went to had 42 pages. I'm sorry but I can't read through 42 ENTIRE pages, though I did read A LOT so I could get a hold on what was being discussed. So when I said I was skimming, it's because before I pose a question I want to make sure It wasn't just asked. So instead of not reading anything, I at least try to skim through 42 PAGES of text to see if it has been mentioned before. There is simply NO WAY I can spend literally hours upon hours to read every thread on this topic, and it's even more ridiculous to say all new members must read every post ever created before they dare comment as to not offend your eyes by having to read a question that has already been asked. I can only imagine how horrible that is for you.

But even that's not the real problem. The MEGA thread said it was now merging with another thread, so I went to that new thread and there were a total of 4 posts, all having to do with Jim Holt. However the conversation was already started in another thread so i didn't really understand what they were talking about. There were other threads linked in the new thread, so i went there hoping to find the talk on Jim Holt, nothing. I couldn't find were the conversation originated. So I asked, because I was already searching for a half an hour.

Additionally this forum is POORLY designed, the navigation is not intuitive. There are SO MANY different threads I don't even know where to start. I know the older members feel a sense of ownership on this forum but you cannot expect new member to read through THOUSANDS of posts to know if something was mentioned already. How many threads/posts do I need to read before it's acceptable to ask a question? There is a reason I'm the 50TH PERSON to ask, the forum is awful to find information. It's easy for you because you've been using it for a while and you get how it works, but I don't think I should be required to spend 5+ hours reading EVERY DAY before I have the right to comment. People asking questions that have already been asked, is a problem on every forum that has ever existed. However the way this site is set up, compounds that problem exponentially

:angry-banghead: