Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[ShadowyOne]

She's in her late 20s with no education or job prospects outside of nannying, reality TV, or singing. She has an expensive vehicle and a shopping habit of course she wants the show to stay on.

Ha, I was in Branson right before this all broke, and in one of the brochures for a show there was a small footnote that said that Amy Duggar performed with them occasionally (I think it was a John Denver tribute show, but can't remember without digging all that stuff out of the side door pocket of the car.) The funny thing was, nowhere on the calendar on the brochure or on the website, did it list what those dates might be, and though I was slightly tempted at the possibility, I wasn't risking the ticket price with a super-fidgety toddler who could potentially melt down after 20 minutes! I had meant to mention it here, as well, but then the shit hit the fan....

I just thought it was so odd: why mention it to potentially attract fans who might be interested in seeing her, but provide no dates? (The brochure couldn't have been too out of date, either, there was a 2015 calendar on it). just a little OT meandering...

[grandmadugger]

westernjournalism.com/thousands-sign-a-petition-to-keep-the-duggars-on-the-air/

Oh yay! You can use their handy dandy auto tool to send an email to TLC supporting the duggars!

Can we send them the CNN video of the conservative homeschooled Christian telling them they are being persecuted for being frauds not Christians?

[chelleinchicago]

Forgive and Forget.

I get it. Once you've incurred consequences, you can be forgiven.

Forget- in order to forget, the Duggars need to go back to obscurity and have no more media exposure.

I just watched Don Lemon interviewing people regarding the "Christian" aspect of this scandal, mostly due to the family putting it forward. I can't remember the Catholic priest's name but he's a regular CNN contributor. I was happy to hear him say that if they've learned anything from the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church it's that you can't "throw holy water" on this kind of situation and pretend that makes it all better. I was so glad he said that.

[grandmadugger]

Speaking of the home church, I noticed that in Alice's posts she brings up that story of JB claiming tax exempt status for his home church. I know that's another story that has been floating around the internet for a long time and I've always read that that was nonsense. Are we sure that it was 100% nonsense? Is it possible that JB applied for tax exempt status and it was given for a period of time?

It's possible that he applied but the property I believe is currently on the tax rolls, unless I have the address wrong.

http://www.arcountydata.com/index.asp

[justbecause]

n.m.

[princessmahina]

When did the home church start?

I checked their first book but didn't find anything. In the 14 Kids special though, I remember Jim Bob said they had been doing it for "a few years." So, at some point after he left the Senate would be my best bet.

[Tiny Bubbles]

Speaking of the home church, I noticed that in Alice's posts she brings up that story of JB claiming tax exempt status for his home church. I know that's another story that has been floating around the internet for a long time and I've always read that that was nonsense. Are we sure that it was 100% nonsense? Is it possible that JB applied for tax exempt status and it was given for a period of time?

ehO2:

Ugh. I was that sullen and mopey child and my mother did repeatedly try to correct my "attitude" by slapping and spanking me. I was taken into the back bedroom and spanked during my 7th birthday party for being sullen or not happy enough or some damn shit. My mother never bothered to find out why I was so unhappy and withdrawn-- probably because I was repeatedly raped when I was 5 but never told anyone because my rapist convinced me he would kill my whole family.

Guess what. No matter how often I was slapped I never did turn into a sunny, happy child. Seems I was too bound and determined to be miserable to be tortured out of my bad attitude. When I was in my 20's I finally told my mother what had happened to me and she begged my forgiveness but out relationship has always been a bit a rocky.

How awful! You deserved better. Hugs.

[Blueruin]

I dont have access to my lexis account from home but I promise I will post the statute of limitations information that would have applied in 2004/2005 tomorrow.

I can say now that the statute of limitations would have run after one year on any misdemeanors, even today.

It is not:

5-14-110. Sexual indecency with a child. - Josh was under 18

5-14-125. Sexual assault in the second degree. - Josh was under 18

5-26-202. Incest - Josh was under 16

Likely charge is:

5-14-126. Sexual assault in the third degree

I'm quite sure that this was the law in 2004 but I will confirm it tomorrow

5-1-109

And I'll just leave this here for those "elders"

I just want to say thank you for the information. I was starting to really wonder what the SOL on the elders would be.

So as one known victim is still a minor (via the expungement) would that mean the church elders would be held accountable up to 10 years following the minors birthday? Are fundamentalist church elders mandated reporters?

[justbecause]

Has anyone ever heard anything about Jana working on or assisting with materials for Gothard's IBLP program for girls?

[princessmahina]

Has anyone ever heard anything about Jana working on or assisting with materials for Gothard's IBLP program for girls?

Do you mean Journey to the Heart? She's attended/led several sessions.

[doggie]

Do you mean Journey to the Heart? She's attended/led several sessions.

takes a lot to force girl to accept her attacker is a good person and she is not.

[justbecause]

Do you mean Journey to the Heart? She's attended/led several sessions.

I'm not sure. I was looking into the connection between Gothard and Huckabee because I read somewhere (can't remember where right now) that TLC had political affiliations with Republican's and may not want to cancel or make any decision on 19K&C for political reasons. I think that there are a bunch of candidates signing up right now for the Republican primaries or something like that. Something about TLC not wanting to weigh in during the Republican ?? because of the Josh situation.

So I started to try to find information about Gothard and Huckabee and I found something talking about how a bunch of materials that were created by Gothard for homeschooling had been sanitized and refurbished to be used within goverment removing a bunch of the religious stuff and that Huckabee may have helped get him some of the contacts or in with it.

This is quoted from the article:

___

In the article, The Political Reach of Gothard, we can see Huckabee’s connection with Bill Gothard. This article also makes mention of the mayor of Little Rock, Jim Dailey. His connection with Daily led to Gothard opening a facility purchased from Hobby Lobby (we’ll get to Hobby Lobby shortly):

Gothard touts former governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee‘s name on materials promoting his “Character Cities†initiative. The two were photographed together at a private campaign luncheon in Houston in late 2007.

For years, Gothard cultivated close ties to Huckabee, an alumnus of Gothard’s “Basic Seminarâ€, and to Jim Dailey, mayor of Little Rock. With encouragement from Mayor Dailey, Gothard opened his Little Rock Training Center in an empty VA hospital purchased by Hobby Lobby and donated to Gothard’s Institute.

Despite Gothard’s grandiose vision, the enormous structure was in poor repair and was never utilized as fully as the Indianapolis facility. Still, it served as a base for the Institute’s prison ministry. Gothard quotes Governor Huckabee’s support for conducting his seminars for Arkansas inmates: “I am confident that these are some of the best programs available for instilling character into the lives of people.†Having gotten his foot in the door in Arkansas, Gothard combined forces with CCA, the nation’s largest operator of privatized correctional institutions, to promote his intense lecture-based seminars inside more prisons.

The Cincinnati Beacon described Huckabee as a “long-time admirer†of Gothard. The former Arkansas governor wrote a letter used by Gothard to promote a program aimed at infiltrating city governments with core principles of the ministry stripped of overt religious references.

Bob Allen, wrote an article for EthicsDaily.com, Huckabee Linked to Controversial Bible Teacher Bill Gothard, which discusses how Huckabee has endorsed Gothard and his teachings:

“As a person who has actually been through the Basic Seminar, I am confident that these are some of the best programs available for instilling character into the lives of people,†Huckabee wrote in a letter promoting Gothard’s prison ministry. Arkansas prisons had been using Gothard seminars and materials since 1996.

Huckabee also endorsed Gothard’s “Character Cities†program. Gothard described a meeting in Little Rock as laying groundwork for “the most exciting opportunity I can imagine†to merge his institute’s teachings with government programs.

Hobby Lobby was mentioned in an earlier article. You cannot dismiss these close ties with Gothard:

Steve Green, Hobby Lobby’s president, has spoken alongside Gothard at an ATI conference (attended by the Duggars) at the Big Sandy center. Last year, he was a keynote speaker at a businessmen’s seminar held at Gothard’s headquarters in Oak Brook, IL (and also advertised on the very strange website of the “World Trade Center of Illinois“, of which Gothard claims to be president). Steve Green is a featured speaker for Gothard’s Embassy Institute. (Source: Hobby Lobby: Deep Pockets.

David Green, founder of Hobby Lobby (and Steve Green’s father), is a billionaire (yes, I typed the Letter B, not M) and a philanthropist, donating to evangelical endeavors. David endorsed one of Gothard’s books:

“Through the example and teachings of Bill Gothard and the Institute in Basic Life Principles, we have benefited both as a family and in our business. It is as we take those lessons from God’s Word that Bill clearly articulates that we live the full life that God intends.†(Source)

And of course, Bill Gothard certainly acknowledges their friendship:

“The secret of their success,†he says, “is their generosity.†He adds, “They’re friends. I see and talk to them periodically.†(Source)

When we lived in Virginia, we took our family to Gothard’s Basic (over 2.5 million have attended) and Advanced seminars. We were friends with families who used Gothard’s ATI curricula for their family’s homeschooling. These families helped support and encourage the spread of his Character First! program (see Character First! Video at the bottom of this article). I remember the hype well, and at that time, I was pretty impressed. From the Chicago Tribune:

“I originally created the materials for the program in 1991, for Russia,†explained Gothard. “After I presented a seminar on Basic Life Principles in Russia, President Boris Yeltsin contacted me and asked if I would create a character program for Russia’s public schools. So I created a program for them, which they still use.â€

Gothard’s program spread through Romania, Taiwan, China, New Zealand, Australia, Mexico, Canada, Guatemala, and Honduras before he crafted a version for the United States. Because he realizes some people might take exception to the original program’s religious overtones, he rewrote the program with non-religious content and has expanded its target audiences to cities, families, schools, businesses and prisons.

Look how far it spread:

“I revised the materials we did for Russia, and they tried them out in eight Oklahoma City schools,†said Gothard. “By 1998, 33 Oklahoma City schools used the program and in 1999, 50 use it. Across the nation, over 700 schools in 40 states are using Character First!†(Chicago Tribune: Staying In Character)

-------------------------------------------

I'm trying to trace back my steps but it's hard with all the information posted in the last few days.

So I started searching only "Blogs" on Google Search that were related to both Gothard and Huckabee and I came accross this comment:

________________________________

I worked (involuntary labor) to prepare the Little Rock, AR center for its grand opening, served tables, and huddled in the background watching Bill Gothard shake hands with city officials and proudly announce his "vision" for the coming years. We were emphatically told to never speak to anyone and remain in veritable secrecy the entire time. Police officers found us a mystery and one concerned officer spoke to me asking questions (to which I gave the acceptable dodging replies, for fear of punishment) and handed me a keychain from the Little Rock police department. I still have it today, along with a brochure from the grand opening and photographs.

I was also sent to the Eagle Springs "L.I.T." program. I am one of those alleging abuse. I have a decade of psychologist reports verifying what it's done to me (severe PTSD). Abuses included deprivation or extreme limitations of food, water, sleep, clothing, possessions and even bathroom facilities; solitary confinement for weeks at a time; mandatory and menial labor (up to 16 and 20 hour shifts at a time in many cases); threats with a shotgun; regular interrogations; and classic brainwashing techniques using cult and cult-approved materials; and overall forced captivity for years at a time, while lying to any outsiders and threatening or locking down anyone who might dare to cry for help in any way (for example, refusal to allow contact with parents until "students" were properly broken and too terrified to speak up). I filed a detailed report with the authorities in Oklahoma and they basically scratched their heads and never got back with me.

I'd be very interested to hear about the international "delegates" that Bill Gothard paraded out to us every year at Knoxville, international programs such as the Yarra Training Center and its own little-known LIT program (LIT programs were all very secretive, but it was known among a few that there was one there), as well as Bill Gothard's military force based in Big Sandy, TX known as ALERT (and allegations of neglect/abuse within the program) - shockingly little has been said about these programs and I believe it is well worth looking into.

_____________________________________________________________

So I did a search on "Eagle Springs "L.I.T." program" and I came across an article that said that Jana had been one of the people that worked on or assisting with materials for Gothard's IBLP program for girls.

So that's why I was asking.

[justbecause]

I'm pretty curious about this 'little known, very secretive' LIT programs that are mentioned in the boy's comments, but it also struck me as interesting that in my research it mentioned Jana working on some stuff for the IBLP program for girls.

I'm pasting it again below.

I'd be very interested to hear about the international "delegates" that Bill Gothard paraded out to us every year at Knoxville, international programs such as the Yarra Training Center and its own little-known LIT program (LIT programs were all very secretive, but it was known among a few that there was one there)

[justbecause]

Can you imagine if they were using kids to rewrite or remove the religious stuff from these materials to repackage and then use in government, schools (elsewhere in the private sector)?

I was shocked to see that they had these same materials from Gothard in Oklahoma public schools! That's SCARY STUFF.

So, I'm not sure what to think. Am I running down a rabbit hole with this?

[justbecause]

Does anyone have any idea what the L.I.T. program might stand (if it is an acronym) for or might be about?

[grandmadugger]

Can you imagine if they were using kids to rewrite or remove the religious stuff from these materials to repackage and then use in government, schools (elsewhere in the private sector)?

I was shocked to see that they had these same materials from Gothard in Oklahoma public schools! That's SCARY STUFF.

So, I'm not sure what to think. Am I running down a rabbit hole with this?

I'm a little concerned and going to go digging because I think an area government did the cities of character a few years ago.

[azeotrope]

Can you imagine if they were using kids to rewrite or remove the religious stuff from these materials to repackage and then use in government, schools (elsewhere in the private sector)?

I was shocked to see that they had these same materials from Gothard in Oklahoma public schools! That's SCARY STUFF.

So, I'm not sure what to think. Am I running down a rabbit hole with this?

interesting video i found from the talk page of the wikipedia page for Character Cities.

[skulduggery]

Hugs!!! You belong here!

Thanks jee-fringer! *hugs back*

[silverspoons]

I'm a little concerned and going to go digging because I think an area government did the cities of character a few years ago.

I know there were cities in Florida that made city employees use the program. there was a very outspoken social worker who thought the program was crap but was forced to sit through it to keep her job.

There are Utah school that use the Character program. I talked to a teacher that was forced to use it during the 2014-15 school year and hated it so much she changed schools to avoid it. She had no idea of the Gothard ties, she just said it was a waste of time and it didn't work.

[justbecause]

interesting video i found from the talk page of the wikipedia page for Character Cities.

It's also interesting that in the description area of the YouTube video it says

"Uploaded on Oct 26, 2007

This is part of the first session from the Teacher Orientation video series. Dr. Larry Guthrie presents the importance of character in our schools."

I wonder who this Dr. Larry Gutherie is? I bet he is part of their Patriarchial religion.

[justbecause]

I know there were cities in Florida that made city employees use the program. there was a very outspoken social worker who thought the program was crap but was forced to sit through it to keep her job.

There are Utah school that use the Character program. I talked to a teacher that was forced to use it during the 2014-15 school year and hated it so much she changed schools to avoid it. She had no idea of the Gothard ties, she just said it was a waste of time and it didn't work.

I think the one that Gothard has is called "Character First".

[ThatsMyTaquito]

Does anyone have any idea what the L.I.T. program might stand (if it is an acronym) for or might be about?

Leader In Training

http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2012/03/ ... as-an-lit/

[grandmadugger]

I know there were cities in Florida that made city employees use the program. there was a very outspoken social worker who thought the program was crap but was forced to sit through it to keep her job.

There are Utah school that use the Character program. I talked to a teacher that was forced to use it during the 2014-15 school year and hated it so much she changed schools to avoid it. She had no idea of the Gothard ties, she just said it was a waste of time and it didn't work.

I'm pretty sure it's the same thing. Nothing says it of course but ready a couple of the pamphlets on the city's archives I'd bet money it is.

[justbecause]

It seems they are calling it "Character First Education" and they say it is a Division the parent company Strata Leadership, L.L.C. characterfirst.com/

characterfirsteducation.com/c/about.php

ABOUT CHARACTER FIRST

Character First Education is a division of Strata Leadership, the world’s largest character-based leadership development program for business, government, public safety, education, and families. While character formation begins at home, we believe everyone who interacts with a child or teen has an opportunity to teach or encourage positive social values.

Character First Education exists to help teachers, administrators, and parents build future leaders with character. We offer curriculum and training that works in public and private schools, home school families, mentoring programs, summer camps, and almost any educational setting.

Our goal is to provide fun, engaging, positive, practical, and research-based lessons that will help students build the character and competence needed for success.

___

So they seem to be marketing it totally separate from anything that has to do with Gothard. This Character First Education seems to be marketed to schools.

[Dovenoir]

With the home church, anyone who is older and more experienced can be called an elder, just like anyone who speaking at the moment can be called a preacher or pastor.

My DH is an ordained minister through AR, as a preacher of a house church, and although he can perform weddings, he never received any paperwork about being a mandatory reporter (circa 2004)

I gleaned this from the national district attorney's association website updated in Nov 2012.

(29) A clergy member, which includes a minister, priest, rabbi, accredited Christian Science practitioner, or other similar functionary of a religious organization, or an individual reasonably believed to be so by the person consulting him or her, except to the extent the clergy member:

(A) Has acquired knowledge of suspected child maltreatment through communications required to be kept confidential pursuant to the religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith; or

(B) Received the knowledge of the suspected child maltreatment from the alleged offender in the context of a statement of admission;

However in regards to client privilege, (b) No privilege, except that between a lawyer and client or between a minister, including a Christian Science practitioner, and a person confessing to or being counseled by the minister shall prevent anyone from testifying concerning child maltreatment

Taken from http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/Mandatory%20Rep ... ov2012.pdf, pages 29 and 40.