Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Is it bad that I live right outside DC and FJ is the first place I heard about Hastert's scandal?

Fox News is about to discuss it after commercial break.

[zygote373]

Yes, I did. I thought that was interesting. I looked for it at the store last night, and they still had an older issue. I wonder what it really says?

I'll bet they mean "Josh's victims tell their stories"...in 2006. In the police report. I highly doubt it's any new comments we haven't seen yet. It's their job to word things so people like us think it's new info and buy a copy (which I will probably do anyway).

[DuggarCurls]

The Chicago Sun-Times website appeared to have gone down with a nasty virus after screenshots taken by Salon captured reality TV star Josh Duggar in almost every picture.

In one, his picture - with his wife - appeared above an article titled 'Relationship deal-breakers for millennials'.

independent.co.uk/news/people/josh-duggars-face-appears-on-every-article-after-us-website-suffers-seriously-inappropriate-virus-10283685.html

[Fascinated]

I've never trusted InTouch to be factual in its articles, and, hence would only buy it at an airport before a long flight (along with Star magazine :embarrassed: :whistle:). Of course we know that they have the basic story here correct but I think I will have to purchase it to see if they've thrown in any unsubstantiated shit. All those gleeful teasers on the cover have me doubting. But, we shall see.

[moriah]

I know the media hasn't mentioned Jim Holt much in this, nor has he come out and said anything about this issue. And there are good reasons (given some of the rumors that have circulated over the years, including the "sin in the camp" story). But there's another way Holt ties in here.

The police report says that one of the "church elders" was a "chaplain" at the Piney Ridge Treatment Center. Guess who was also an elder of the Duggar's church, and a chaplain at Piney Ridge in 2003? Jim Holt.

Holt's an ordained Baptist minister. He was, therefore, a "mandated reporter" under Arkansas law. If he was that "elder" mentioned in the police report, he committed a crime by not immediately reporting it to the Child Abuse Hotline when Jim Bob went to the "elders".

I know it's too late to prosecute Jim Holt for covering up the abuse if he was in fact that elder, but I would think a hell of a lot better of everyone involved if they at least admitted that once the Duggars went to their church, the abuse should have immediately been reported to the Hotline. It's somewhat excusable for the parent of a perpetrator to want to protect them (even if they *shouldn't* protect them, it's somewhat understandable why they might want to, and it can't be easy to do the right thing). That's why mandated reporters exist -- so that when a family goes for help, the matter is reported to the proper authorities, even if it's not pleasant.

That's the problem with Gothard's teachings -- they misinterpret scripture to suggest that the Matthew 18 process should be used to handle absolutely everything, and only when it has failed should law enforcement be contacted. That is in violation of the law in *every* state, not just Arkansas.

[halcionne]

I've never trusted InTouch to be factual in its articles, and, hence would only buy it at an airport before a long flight (along with Star magazine :embarrassed: :whistle:). Of course we know that they have the basic story here correct but I think I will have to purchase it to see if they've thrown in any unsubstantiated shit. All those gleeful teasers on the cover have me doubting. But, we shall see.

I plan to buy this issue. They found the story after all this time; fuck People and their glossy, late, spin story.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I know the media hasn't mentioned Jim Holt much in this, nor has he come out and said anything about this issue. And there are good reasons (given some of the rumors that have circulated over the years, including the "sin in the camp" story). But there's another way Holt ties in here.

The police report says that one of the "church elders" was a "chaplain" at the Piney Ridge Treatment Center. Guess who was also an elder of the Duggar's church, and a chaplain at Piney Ridge in 2003? Jim Holt.

Holt's an ordained Baptist minister. He was, therefore, a "mandated reporter" under Arkansas law. If he was that "elder" mentioned in the police report, he committed a crime by not immediately reporting it to the Child Abuse Hotline when Jim Bob went to the "elders".

I know it's too late to prosecute Jim Holt for covering up the abuse if he was in fact that elder, but I would think a hell of a lot better of everyone involved if they at least admitted that once the Duggars went to their church, the abuse should have immediately been reported to the Hotline. It's somewhat excusable for the parent of a perpetrator to want to protect them (even if they *shouldn't* protect them, it's somewhat understandable why they might want to, and it can't be easy to do the right thing). That's why mandated reporters exist -- so that when a family goes for help, the matter is reported to the proper authorities, even if it's not pleasant.

That's the problem with Gothard's teachings -- they misinterpret scripture to suggest that the Matthew 18 process should be used to handle absolutely everything, and only when it has failed should law enforcement be contacted. That is in violation of the law in *every* state, not just Arkansas.

Thank you. I have been trying to find old articles that shows him as Chaplain at that time.

I thought about contacting.them to request a list of their previous chaplains.

Do you have anything showing him as chaplian around that time?

Dem underground is talking about it.

Here is an old article.

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-gop/1025741/posts

I would love if free jinger blew this wide open.

We really need to bring down Huckabee while we are at it. And see if Santorum has any ties to Gothard.

[grandmadugger]

Did you guys catch these two sentences?

"Despite rumors that he was hired to help the Duggars get through the scandal, Frederick said things did not work out with the Duggar family for reasons he could not reveal.

So he's just commenting on what he looks for in clients. Wonder why it didn't 'work out'.

It didn't work out because they can't admit fault, they won't be transparent, and there is no willingness to change.

Hunter appears to be more of the person who sets up a plan before a scandal hits. I found an article he wrote about what churches need to do and realized then he and the Duggars would never work. When you demand things so far out of their ability to comprehend it's never going to work.

[VelociRapture]

Thank you. I have been trying to find an old article that shows him as Chaplain at that time but have had no luck.

I thought about contacting.them to request a list of their previous chaplains.

Do you have anything showing him as chaplian around that time?

I would love if free jinger blew this wide open.

We really need to bring down Huckabee while we are at it. And see if Santorum has any ties to Gothard.

You can look, but I doubt there are any ties between them. Santorum is Catholic. Gothard appears to be Protestant. I think the only tie is really that Santorum posed for tons of pictures with the Duggars over the years - he seems to like pulling out the super religious card to get attention from voters.

[ShadowyOne]

Thank you. I have been trying to find old articles that shows him as Chaplain at that time.

I thought about contacting.them to request a list of their previous chaplains.

Do you have anything showing him as chaplian around that time?

Dem underground is talking about it.

Here is an old article:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-gop/1025741/posts

I would love if free jinger blew this wide open.

We really need to bring down Huckabee while we are at it. And see if Santorum has any ties to Gothard.

Agreed. Can you please link the source for the info that it was Holt that was an elder and also the chaplain at the hospital?

[moriah]

His Project VoteSmart profile is here:

votesmart.org/candidate/biography/27940/jim-holt#.VWhb88_By3N

In it, it says he was Elder at "Bible Grace Fellowship" from "1998-Present" and chaplain at Piney Ridge from "1996-Present".

Edit to add: A google of "Bible Grace Fellowship" shows that Jim Bob was a "deacon" with them at the time of "14 Kids and Pregnant Again", from articles archived on Free Republic. I would link, but a Google would work without creating links to FR.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

His Project VoteSmart profile is here:

votesmart.org/candidate/biography/27940/jim-holt#.VWhb88_By3N

In it, it says he was Elder at "Bible Grace Fellowship" from "1998-Present" and chaplain at Piney Ridge from "1996-Present".

I take it you are the same poster from dem underground?

[moriah]

I take it you are the same poster from dem underground?

Yep. Since people there didn't seem to give a rat's behind... ;)

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Agreed. Can you please link the source for the info that it was Holt that was an elder and also the chaplain at the hospital?

Moriah has more but the freerepublic link i provided above says this:

Holt, 38, was elected to the state Senate in 2002, after serving one term in the state House of Representatives. He is a U.S. Army veteran who is a Christian youth counselor at the Piney Ridge Center in Springdale. He and his wife, Bobyecq, have "seven children who are born and another child who's not been born yet," Holt said.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Yep. Since people there didn't seem to give a rat's behind... ;)

We do here. I am shooting off an email to NWA Dem Gazette.

Unless you would rather do it?

http://www.nwaonline.com/submit/letter/

[moriah]

Other links referencing his time at Piney Ridge:

http://www.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/ar ... -us-senate -- a person speaks of him being chaplain at a facility in "Washington County" in the commets.

http://www.ourcampaigns.com/pages/Candi ... ateID=6909 -- "Jim became a youth counselor and chaplain at Piney Ridge Center (for juvenile sex offenders). "

http://test.swtimes.com/archive/2004/Ma ... _seat.html -- article stating he held the position in 2004

_--------

If you have a better relationship with the DemoZette, go ahead. Here's what I wrote this morning and posted on Holt's Facebook page as an "Open Letter" regarding the isutation, though:

Mr. Holt:

I am sure that you have seen the media coverage regarding accusations made against Joshua Duggar, son of Jim Bob Duggar, about events that occurred when he was a teenager. I am sure you are as saddened as the rest of the country that the victims of this trauma are being made to relive that ugly time all over again. As much as we might wish it, we cannot change the past. The only benefit that can come from these revelations is focused on the future -- we must learn from these events.

I understand that the Duggars have been close personal friends for many years, and that you are/were an elder in Bible Grace Fellowship Church, the same church the Duggars are said to have attended in the early 2000s. I am also aware that, during this same time, you served as a chaplain at Piney Ridge Treatment Center, a youth mental health facility that offers treatment for a number of conditions, including "sexually maladaptive behaviors". You are also an ordained minister, and I am sure you are aware of Arkansas law when it comes to members of the clergy serving a role in the prevention of child abuse in our state -- that of a "mandated reporter".

It is my understanding that you are ordained in the Baptist faith. The Southern Baptist Convention has stated in 2002, 2007, and 2013 their repugnance for any role churches and clergy might have in covering up child abuse or neglect, and in their 2013 resolution stated specifically: "We remind all Southern Baptists of their legal and moral responsibility to report any accusations of child abuse to authorities in addition to implementing any appropriate church discipline or internal restoration processes." http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/1230/on- ... f-children

The organization "GRACE" has issued a statement going into much further detail in discussing why the church discipline process outlined in Chapter 18 of the Book of Matthew is not designed to be the sole way a church deals with child abuse. They explain it far better than I can with many detailed Scriptural references, so I will link their statement here. http://www.netgrace.org/resources/2015/ ... -scripture

According to the police report, when the Duggars realized that they could not handle this challenge alone, they came to their church. It says the matter was brought to their church elders, including an elder who was a chaplain at the Piney Ridge Treatment Center. It seems that instead of following both the Southern Baptist Convention's mandates and the laws of the State of Arkansas, the church elected to utilize Matthew 18-based church discipline before reporting the matter to the proper authorities. In addition, the law requires that report be made by the mandated reporter themselves to the state Child Abuse Hotline, not to an individual police officer by a member of the family. (While that law enforcement officer also failed in his duty to report the matter to the Child Abuse Hotline, that just compounded the problem of not reporting directly to the Hotline in the first place.)

Again, we cannot change the past. All we can do is look to the future. When we admit our failures, we learn from them, and help others learn from them too. I ask that you join with the Southern Baptist Convention in publicly acknowledging that church discipline procedures must not be allowed to interfere, subvert, or take the place ordained in Romans 13:1-6 of civil authorities (called God's ministers) to punish evil deeds, particularly when it comes to the abuse or neglect of children. The only purpose God could have had for allowing these accusations to come out now is for these matters to be brought into the light, learned from, and therefore future harm prevented.

--------

If you want to send that in, too, you are welcome to.

[happy atheist]

Part 7: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26189