Josh Duggar Admits Molestation of 5 Juveniles - Part 6

[nelliebelle1197]

All felonies were seven years at the time unless otherwise exempt.

Please show me the three year criminal NOT civil.

Here is a lawyer discussing it:

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/why-the-dugg ... gation-end

I did show it to you. Click the link I provided. That is not civil. That is the criminal code.

ETA: this is not an Arkansas lawyer- she a prof at Cardozo on NYC- and she is basing her conclusion on the 2013 revision to certain classes of sex crimes. The article did not say anything I picked up about the statute being tougher then. It is actually much tougher now.

[justbecause]

So they are ignoring it and hoping it goes away, basically?

I think they are trying to save face within their religious community. They want to let there supporters know that they are holding on to God. It's actually a pretty good strategy. If everything falls apart, those are the people that they will fall back in with. Maybe the social media / PR guy had something to do with it. Seems to smart to be JB or M. Or maybe smart is not the word. No not too smart, it's too reasonable to be JB & M.

[justoneoftwo]

Wow. That's interesting. I wonder if that will work. I'm going to sign it!

I would be shocked if it would work. Maybe they would investigate Josh when he moves back, maybe not. Josh isn't living in the house any more so what probable cause do they have that the children are in danger? Without it they can't force the family to let them in. (I assume this is the case, 4th amendment and all that).

[skulduggery]

Question: if Josh could be brought up on charges, wouldn't the sisters be the ones who have to file the report? Considering they're probably circling the wagons at behest of mom&dad, the likelihood of that is low, IMO.

Although, this brings up the question whether mom&dad have to be the ones to notify the authorities since one of them is still underage.

[SassyPants]

Seriously, it's surprising that this is the first we've heard of untoward behavior. I am shocked that there have not been episodes of extreme violence or self harm. This cult is soul and mind sucking.

Why do parents EFF with their kids like this, in the name of religion? It's so perverse.

TLC, NO more reality shows featuring minor children.

[justoneoftwo]

Question: if Josh could be brought up on charges, wouldn't the sisters be the ones who have to file the report? Considering they're probably circling the wagons at behest of mom&dad, the likelihood of that is low, IMO.

Although, this brings up the question whether mom&dad have to be the ones to notify the authorities since one of them is still underage.

The state does not need the victim to cooperate to file charges. No one needs to file a report. The state would need evidence but if the statute of limitations had not run they would have it from the statements. Few if any prosecutors would choose to go forward if the sisters refused to testify as it becomes really hard to prove.

[OkToBeTakei]

Not only do I know this, I've lived it. As a child I wasn't allowed to just sit and stare or be lost in my own thoughts. I had to "smile" and "put on a happy face." Unhappiness or complaining was not allowed. I was always reminded that anything less than being Miss Congeniality was having a poor attitude, seflish, ungrateful, ect.

Now I go through life looking like a smiling Sheldon meme.

Totally random. But I'm sure if you have a Sheldon 'countenance' you rock at life!

[skulduggery]

The state does not need the victim to cooperate to file charges. No one needs to file a report. The state would need evidence but if the statute of limitations had not run they would have it from the statements. Few if any prosecutors would choose to go forward if the sisters refused to testify as it becomes really hard to prove.

Thanks!

[skulduggery]

Totally random. But I'm sure if you have a Sheldon 'countenance' you rock at life!

Aw thanks! I'm female, though, so maybe it was a bad example. lol

[Toothfairy]

Absolutely, I agree 150%. I was talking about this to someone a couple days ago and I told him if Josh had faced the consequences for his actions as a minor, his record would be completely sealed and there would be no controversy today. There wouldn't be a need to try to convince the public that Josh has received treament, because even in the event of anyone finding out; we'd all know he and his sisters would have been required to get professional counseling.

The Duggars hiding this has done more harm than good, to him and to the entire family. In wanting to handle it privately among themselves, they have failed everyone miserably.

This is what bothers me about him suing DHS. What were their findings that were so objectionable to him/his parents? Did they want him removed from the home? Were they going to require him to get professional help from a state certified therapist? Why the heck would they file suit, if DHS didn't find something that needed to be addressed and would legally require them to address it?

The leghumpers want me to believe that Josh made a youthful mistake and has been completely rehabilitated. Give me a reason to believe that, dammit, and that incest joke he made isn't helping to convince anyone he is truly sorry for what he did.

Appealing a government agency's decision is not the same thing as a lawsuit, and a hearing is not the same as a trial. It sounds like Arkansas CPS found there was abuse, and Josh appealed that finding in a hearing (most likely before an administrative law judge) Saying that Josh sued CPS is misleading, as it implies that he filed an action against them, which does not appear to be accurate, nor is it correct to say he had a "trial", at least in the legal sense of the word, if it was an appeal hearing.

The left thumpers are just upset that this could happen to a wholesome Christians family that preaches that kissing dating and premarital sex is wrong. Funny how they said none of the Duggar kids will have kids out of wedlock, do drugs or drink but something like this comes out then they say don't judge we have make mistakes or forget and move on its in the past.

[Snarkle Motion]

Based on this link from 2013: http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/ ... s/SB92.pdf

A prosecution may be commenced for a violation of the following offenses, if, when the alleged violation occurred, the offense was committed against a minor, the violation has not been previously reported to a law enforcement agency or prosecuting attorney, and the victim has not reached the age of twenty eight (28) years of age:

They then have crossed out sexual assault of the first and second degree which makes me think those offenses are no longer under the SOL?

I'm not a lawyer, but since the police report was destroyed and the judge has outright stated it no longer exists - can't a criminal prosecution be launched against Josh for sexual assault (in the third degree)? I'm sure that anyone over 18 would not want to press charges but since one of the victims is a minor does the family get to decide about pressing charges or can the state still prosecute? It would seem that his public confession should be enough to warrant an investigation.

[justbecause]

I would agree that TLC has to have been tipped off at some point and ignored it probably. There is no way this was new news to them on some level.

One thing I thought of - if the pedophile trooper was telling the truth and JB told him there was only one victim, what if that's what JB told everyone? And maybe he said or implied it was the non-family member and made it out to be mutual indiscretion or something that sounds like teenage experimentation more than molestation?

There are a lot of ways he could have spun that to make it sound a lot less criminal than feeling a child up in their sleep, which is what Josh admitted to in the police report. If that were the case TLC might not have thought it was a big deal, and if that was the way he said it to others, like the Kellers, that might be why they were way more forgiving. That might also be a large part of why there seems to be a misinformation campaign going amongst the fundies to make it sound like the sisters weren't the ones molested.

I don't think that TLC and the Duggars had much communication because of the different facts that came out about the production crew. Although TLC taped that episode making it seem like they all got along so well, I bet that the producers and the taping crew were scared to death of the Duggars after that incident with the homosexual taping crew member got fired/transferred and the stink M put up over it. I think that everyone kept there distance and probably didn't discuss much at all. Probably story lines and contract stuff. I would think that the Duggars are so socially isolated with their beliefs that since TLC was making a lot of money off of 19K&C that everyone was just on pins and needles not rocking that boat. I bet they really had no idea what they could and could not say to them so they probably said nothing. Also, after the 'incident' with the homosexual crew member I bet JB & M laid down the law.

I think the higher ups knew. The ones who knew about Oprah cancelling. That would be a huge thing, to have a scheduled taping with Oprah only to have it cancelled. But the crew, I'm sure they saw so much that was 'not' shown on the show but taped as possible scenes they probably just shut down.

[justoneoftwo]

Based on this link from 2013: http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/ ... s/SB92.pdf

A prosecution may be commenced for a violation of the following offenses, if, when the alleged violation occurred, the offense was committed against a minor, the violation has not been previously reported to a law enforcement agency or prosecuting attorney, and the victim has not reached the age of twenty eight (28) years of age:

They then have crossed out sexual assault of the first and second degree which makes me think those offenses are no longer under the SOL?

I'm not a lawyer, but since the police report was destroyed and the judge has outright stated it no longer exists - can't a criminal prosecution be launched against Josh for sexual assault (in the third degree)? I'm sure that anyone over 18 would not want to press charges but since one of the victims is a minor does the family get to decide about pressing charges or can the state still prosecute? It would seem that his public confession should be enough to warrant an investigation.

The victims don't need to press charges, but above someone explained that this is not the correct statute for the time the crime was committed.

[justbecause]

I would be shocked if it would work. Maybe they would investigate Josh when he moves back, maybe not. Josh isn't living in the house any more so what probable cause do they have that the children are in danger? Without it they can't force the family to let them in. (I assume this is the case, 4th amendment and all that).

We have been shocked this week!!!!!

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I did show it to you. Click the link I provided. That is not civil. That is the criminal code.

That was 2010 not sure.what changed between 2002 and then.

Also that one clearly says if offense is against minor and limitation period has not expired since victim turned 18, statutory period for offense starts at age of majority.

Also remember the crime is determined by the prosecutor andngrand jury. Not cops so we don't know what the actual felony or misdemeanor they could have applied.

Also in the case of child abuse the abuse does not necessarily end at the end of the actual physical aspect.

[Fascinated]

Not only do I know this, I've lived it. As a child I wasn't allowed to just sit and stare or be lost in my own thoughts. I had to "smile" and "put on a happy face." Unhappiness or complaining was not allowed. I was always reminded that anything less than being Miss Congeniality was having a poor attitude, seflish, ungrateful, ect.

Now I go through life looking like a smiling Sheldon meme.

So, I can't imagine but you can. I say again, with heartfelt sympathy (if that's the correct sentiment), I simply cannot imagine. What these extreme tenets put people through cannot be truly understood by people like me. I will never know what it is like to be raised in such a culture. I fervently wish we could eradicate this mindset forever. Because this is also child abuse.

[SassyPants]

I think they are trying to save face within their religious community. They want to let there supporters know that they are holding on to God. It's actually a pretty good strategy. If everything falls apart, those are the people that they will fall back in with. Maybe the social media / PR guy had something to do with it. Seems to smart to be JB or M. Or maybe smart is not the word. No not too smart, it's too reasonable to be JB & M.

IDK, if you listen to that video from the Christian preacher that was posted last night or early this morning, plenty of Christian officials knew, even purportedly FRC officials, yet they buried it because they were afraid of how it might reflect negatively on ALL Christians.

As Michael Reagan, a conservative talk show host said, if Barack Obama admitted to molesting his sister, would conservative Christians rally around him and talk of forgiveness? And both he and the other Christian host answered, "no".

[Toothfairy]

Hm. The petition is to investigate the parents for not reporting child abuse, not having fundamentalist beliefs.

Considering that Josh Duggar himself admitted to the abuse, then it should be safe to say that the abuse did happen, and is a reason to have them investigated for failing to report.

cps failed these kids as well. But what can they do at this point? Josh admitted, the parents fucked up but their hands are tied.

[eh02]

This reminds me of a scene I watched in one of TLC's Bates episodes. I remember the mum gathering the younger kids in the living room for some kind of morning energetic activity, and she basically encouraged them to repeat loudly, clapping their hands "if you act enthusiastic you will feel enthusiastic", and again, and again, and again, faster and faster...Felt like a scene from "1984"

I think enthusiasm and optimism CAN be "trained," and in a lot of ways that can be a really good thing to emphasize when you're raising kids. Even something as small as tickling a kid who is throwing a tantrum just to teach them not to dwell on negative emotions. Teaching kids to find joy in life. That is important. I don't necessarily have a problem with parents trying to avoid having a scowling, moping child. But these people obviously take it waaaay beyond that...

I am not under any illusion that the Bates' beliefs are any different than the Duggars', but I do think their children seem much more emotionally well adjusted. They don't look scared or sad. So hopefully they've done at least SOMETHING a little better than Boob and Jchelle.

[BlackSheep]

Didn't see this listed in the search results. Salon article written by a woman who grew up in ATI. She discusses what life is like for a regular person in the movement. Quite interesting. Hopefully more people read this and more media picks it up.

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/28/i_could ... _shock_me/

From the article: "I hope this latest religion and sex scandal teaches that religious extremism isn’t entertainment. It is abuse."

...which is why I hope and pray that 19KAC is gone for good.

Hey there TLC! Word is getting around about the Duggars. Why, right this very minute, my husband is watching that spoof Duggar video on Funny or Die. My husband! Who has never had any interest in the Duggars! And I don't know how he heard about that video. Wasn't me who told him. People are shocked. Repulsed. Disgusted. Saddened. TLC, we're WAITING. Do you or do not intend to keep 19KAC? People are joking that TLC stands for Touching Little Children. Keep the show, and that will be your legacy.

What's it gonna be, TLC?

[DuggarCurls]

A search of 19 Kids and Counting on Hulu still produces externally hosted clips and episodes that link to TLC's website. Said links are a mixed bag, however, as many of the videos no longer exist in their original form on TLC.com and produce error messages.

Certain clips, like an interview with Jessa and Ben Seewald, and a shot of Jill Dillard talking about hubby Derick Dillard's proposal, still exist, while others — many that include Josh — now show a 404 page reading, "Sorry, this page does not exist." One such pulled video is an episode from the seventh season of 19 Kids and Counting — 2013's "An Emotional Goodbye." The installment specifically focuses on Josh and his wife Anna, who are moving away from the family in the episode.

tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids-and-counting/videos/an-emotional-goodbye-full-episode/

http://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment ... z3bThYHjfW

[Buzzard]

I dont have access to my lexis account from home but I promise I will post the statute of limitations information that would have applied in 2004/2005 tomorrow.

I can say now that the statute of limitations would have run after one year on any misdemeanors, even today.

It is not:

5-14-110. Sexual indecency with a child. - Josh was under 18

5-14-125. Sexual assault in the second degree. - Josh was under 18

5-26-202. Incest - Josh was under 16

Likely charge is:

5-14-126. Sexual assault in the third degree

(2) (A) Being a minor, engages in sexual intercourse or deviate sexual activity with another person who is:

(i) Less than fourteen (14) years of age; and

(ii) Not the person's spouse.

(B) It is an affirmative defense under this subdivision (a)(2) that the actor was not more than three (3) years older than the victim.

(b) It is no defense to a prosecution under this section that the victim consented to the conduct.

© Sexual assault in the third degree is a Class C felony.

I'm quite sure that this was the law in 2004 but I will confirm it tomorrow

5-1-109

(g) The period of limitation does not run:

(1) (A) During any time when the accused is continually absent from the state or has no reasonably ascertainable place of abode or work within the state.

(B) However, in no event does this subdivision (g)(1) extend the period of limitation otherwise applicable by more than three (3) years; or

(2) During any period when a prosecution against the accused for the same conduct is pending in this state.

And I'll just leave this here for those "elders"

(B) However, for failure to notify by a mandated reporter in the first degree, § 12-18-201, and failure to notify by a mandated reporter in the second degree, § 12-18-202, the period of limitation is ten (10) years after the child victim reaches eighteen (18) years of age if the child in question was subject to child maltreatment; and

12-18-201. Failure to notify by a mandated reporter in the first degree.

(a) A person commits the offense of failure to notify by a mandated reporter in the first degree if he or she:

(1) Is a mandated reporter under this chapter;

(2) Has:

(A) Reasonable cause to suspect that a child has been subjected to child maltreatment;

(B) Reasonable cause to suspect that a child has died as a result of child maltreatment; or

© Observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances that would reasonably result in child maltreatment; and

(3) Knowingly fails to notify the Child Abuse Hotline of the child maltreatment or suspected child maltreatment.

(b) Failure to notify by a mandated reporter in the first degree is a Class A misdemeanor.

[justoneoftwo]

We have been shocked this week!!!!!

True, though this would be different. I knew nothing about what happened behind closed doors at the TTH, I do know something about how state investigations work. :? I would guess the state would be on the lookout for probable cause, because the state currently looks bad, but starting a full investigation would probably end up with the state being sued as there is no current probable cause and I'm not sure how they could investigate without performing searches. They could do voluntary interviews I suppose, but I don't think the family would be up for that. On the other hand, the state looks really bad, and states do try to not look terrible so you never know I suppose.

[DuggarCurls]

TLC has not tweeted since they posted the statement on the Duggars:

https://twitter.com/TLC/with_replies

[nelliebelle1197]

Apologist: I edited my post above. The law professor is basing analysis on the current code, which is tougher than 2002. And yes, the act is what starts a criminal SOL, not the impact on the victim. That is why civil code is more flexible.