Obnoxious Apologists and Those Who Counter Them

[thoughtful]

I've mentioned, in a few posts lately, that I've been listening to some of the YouTubers that counter the "trying to sound educated" apologists, and enjoying them.

I didn't see a thread that would be appropriate for talking about them in more detail, or posting videos, so I started this one. I don't know if anyone will want to join me, but there is some wonderful material out there, countering some of the weirdest fundie claims with wit, science, and calm.

Among other reasons, I did it because I just want to share Paulogia's latest video. He makes carefully crafted videos, and can be very funny. In this one, the apologist happens to be named Herb, and I think Paul found every clip in the video universe with a reference to someone named Herb to drop in at perfect moments. It had me laughing out loud, which is not an easy task.

The original video is of Herb the Apologist rapturously trying to make everyone believe that ancient Chinese writers were magically aware of Jesus' death and resurrection.

Have fun!

 

 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

The original video is of Herb the Apologist rapturously trying to make everyone believe that ancient Chinese writers were magically aware of Jesus' death and resurrection.

I did read a book that set forth data to support a fairly early Christian presence in China. Christianity  was definitely on the scene in 635 AD. 

[waltraute]

The title of that video alone is worth the price of admission.

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, Howl said:

I did read a book that set forth data to support a fairly early Christian presence in China. Christianity  was definitely on the scene in 635 AD. 

Oh, no doubt. But Herb claims that there is evidence in Chinese writing from 30-33ish CE, describing signs and wonders that came directly to them when Jesus was crucified. Paul even shows a brief bit in which Herb tries to connect some even older Chinese texts to Noah and the Ark.

His point is that God sent messages directly to them. I guess Herb just thought the ancient Chinese were too heathen to realize what they were being shown.

7 hours ago, waltraute said:

The title of that video alone is worth the price of admission.

I know. I do enjoy Paul's sense of humor.

[MamaJunebug]

 I’m chuckling to myself as I imagine Herb presenting his facts in a variety of accents other than British.  British accents can connote genuine scholarship and authority.  OTOH, if I “hear” Herb’s lecture in David “The Hunk” Rodrigues’ twang —- don’t need no stinking Herb clips.  

[Katzchen24]

13 hours ago, Howl said:

I did read a book that set forth data to support a fairly early Christian presence in China. Christianity  was definitely on the scene in 635 AD. 

Nestorian Christians were a presence in China mostly during the Tang Dynasty. I think there was a few hundred years where they could be found. There's a couple of rubbings of beautiful Nestorian crosses in Google Arts and Culture. Their presence was partly to do with anti-Chalcedonian turmoil within the Eastern Church which caused a spread away from Rome and Constantinople.

Spoiler

https://artsandculture.google.com/search?q=nestorian

 

[FiveAcres]

10 hours ago, thoughtful said:

Oh, no doubt. But Herb claims that there is evidence in Chinese writing from 30-33ish CE, describing signs and wonders that came directly to them when Jesus was crucified. Paul even shows a brief bit in which Herb tries to connect some even older Chinese texts to Noah and the Ark.

His point is that God sent messages directly to them. I guess Herb just thought the ancient Chinese were too heathen to realize what they were being shown.

I know. I do enjoy Paul's sense of humor.

I haven't watched any of Paul's videos recently, but I remember the stoicism and strength with which he addressed his shunning and loss of family after his deconversion. The story of what his church and wife did is truly horrible.

[thoughtful]

I started this thread with every intention of posting more videos from the people who patiently take on the shmucks who try to squeeze science into their young earth beliefs, and then I didn't come back to post more.

I am a bad thread-mommy. I've been listening to other stuff for a while.

But today, I checked Paulogia's Youtube again, and found his Hammy New Year video for 2023. Some background is under the spoiler, for anyone who isn't familiar with this tradition.

Spoiler

He departs from his normal planned, calm approach, usually with a guest or two, to mock Ken Ham's end-of-the-year Ark Encounter tour and grift. Usually, he and whoever else is participating has had a few, and they are somewhere between tipsy and drunk.

There is still plenty of pointing out the hypocrisy and shittiness of Ham, and Paul still edits the visuals to add fun and/or pointed things, but it's a lot looser than his usual videos, and I don't think he edits the audio.

This year, he and ShannonQ (fellow AiG-debunker and Paul's significant other) ripped into Ken Ham's latest attempts to grift still more money to build still more shitty displays, his teaming up with Ray Comfort to get volunteers to go to King Charles' coronation and pass out tracts that look like British money, and the latest tour of the "secrets" of the Ark Encounter.

There is plenty that is funny, and Shannon goes on some angry rants near the end.  The contrast between Paul's droll, quiet way, and Shannon's raucous laugh and passionate anger can be enjoyable.

It is decidedly NSFW or small children - it won't embed, since it's age-restricted, so you'll have to C&P the url.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJffoA7CyRE

 

[thoughtful]

This is not a pushback to apologetics, per se. But it's an interesting video from Genetically Modified Skeptic about belief in demons, recurring waves of satanic panic, and the image of the devil in literature and art.

He talks about the history of Satan being pictured as evil or an abused underdog or hero, and how that may relate to the image being used recently as a positive reaction to corruption in churches, evangelical support of Trump and pseudo-science, and religious bigotry.

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

Forrest Valkai and Gutsick Gibbon bubble over with enthusiasm about biology. Warm, funny and amazing at teaching, both of them. NSFW due to some cursing.

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

Answers in Genesis tries, yet again, to mock "evolutionists," and explain how evolution just can't be real. Forrest Valkai knows better.

Also, there are pictures of greyhounds, so I was happy!

Calvin Smith, the speaker in the AiG video, is trying so hard to look professorial - look at that outfit:

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

OMG! Have any of you heard of the movie Gramps Goes to College, or the mind behind it, Donald James Parker (I really want to put quotes around the words movie and mind)?

Prepare yourself, and I suggest that you find 50 minutes of your day, today or soon, to watch this video (I know, I'm on a Forrest Valkai kick, but trust me, this is gold).

Make sure you are not eating, drinking or in need of a bathroom break while watching.

 

Spoiler

 

More on the ego behind this masturbatory masterpiece:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5583307/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr1

Donald may need his own thread here.

Edited March 9, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[Giraffe]

On 3/8/2023 at 4:20 PM, thoughtful said:

OMG! Have any of you heard of the movie Gramps Goes to College, or the mind behind it, Donald James Parker (I really want to put quotes around the words movie and mind)?

Prepare yourself, and I suggest that you find 50 minutes of your day, today or soon, to watch this video (I know, I'm on a Forrest Valkai kick, but trust me, this is gold).

Make sure you are not eating, drinking or in need of a bathroom break while watching.

 

  Hide contents

 

More on the ego behind this masturbatory masterpiece:

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm5583307/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr1

Donald may need his own thread here.

I haven’t watched it but I watched an atheist youtuber I like critiquing it and OMG! First of all they have him living in the dorm! Like…dude, you’re how old and now sharing a bedroom with someone half your age? And the production staff was fine with that? I don’t remember the other specific things but there were a number of scenes that were sexually inappropriate* and made me uncomfortable. 

*He develops a completely fine relationship with someone his own age. What creeped me out were scenes with a young woman of maybe 18 or 19. It was so much eww!

Oh! it was that video I watched, not the actual video. Lol, I’m off to get some coffee.

[thoughtful]

52 minutes ago, Giraffe said:

Oh! it was that video I watched, not the actual video. Lol, I’m off to get some coffee.

Hope you enjoyed your coffee! I haven't seen the actual film, either - I doubt I could survive watching it.

Glad to hear someone else here likes Valkai - besides learning from him, I've enjoyed just watching him bubble over with the joy of learning and teaching. Nice to see someone else besides me getting all "this is so cool" goofy about teaching.

[AmazonGrace]

This sort of thing is part of the reason I'm no longer a believer.

I figured that if Jesus really was the way and the truth and the life they wouldn't have to make up so much BS to defend their faith.

[thoughtful]

Gutsick Gibbon analyzes a debate between King Crockoduck and a very unprepared and condescending young Earth creationist.

It never ceases to astound me how these guys try so hard to shove science into their ideas. They work so hard at it; twisting everything, lying, repeating the same long since disproven stories.

If they believe God can do anything, including suspending the laws of physics, why not just stick with faith as their reason to believe in a literal 6-day creation, the flood, etc., instead of sticking their necks out trying to make it all sound scientific?

I wonder how many of them were raised with YEC, developed an interest in science, and then got stuck in between, either trying to make it all fit, or, as adults, being dependent on sticking with YEC family, commmunity and job, even though they now know it's all bullshit.

If they weren't influencing politicians and what is taught in schools, I'd just pity them.

 

 

[thoughtful]

Frank Turek tries to tie every superhero movie, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and Harry Potter to Jesus. He also seems unaware that there were stories and literary archetypes before the bible was written. 

Prophet of Zod makes it even funnier than it already is (as well as making serious points about how silly this line of thought is). Some of the comments are great, as well.

Spoiler

 

 

[Giraffe]

@thoughtful our Youtube algorithm must be nearly identical. 😂

One of my roommates is weirded out at the videos I watch. It’s good to come here and know I’m not alone, lol. 

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

@thoughtful our Youtube algorithm must be nearly identical. 😂

One of my roommates is weirded out at the videos I watch. It’s good to come here and know I’m not alone, lol. 

Sometimes I go with what Youtube suggests, sometimes I just binge a particular person's videos for a while. I'd seen some Zod when he'd been a guest of other folks, but hadn't watched much of his stuff.

Sometimes it depends on my mood - do I want intense and perky (Valkai, Gibbon, Rhino, Shannon Q), calm and dry (Paulogia, Aron Ra), arguments from callers (ACA), or something else?

Repetition, especially from the ones who go deeply into the science, doesn't bother me, because I need to hear it over and over. Unlike musical terminology, scientific language doesn't seem to stick in my head. As I listen, it all makes sense, but, if someone asked me to re-teach it a few minutes later, I'm not sure I could.

Edited April 2, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[AmazonGrace]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

Frank Turek tries to tie every superhero movie, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, and Harry Potter to Jesus.

 

No doubt there are a lot of films and books that have used plenty of religious imagery from Christianity but what is this supposed to prove, other than that the writers are familiar with Christianity?

[thoughtful]

10 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

No doubt there are a lot of films and books that have used plenty of religious imagery from Christianity but what is this supposed to prove, other than that the writers are familiar with Christianity?

I think it's supposed to prove what most of Turek's stuff is supposed to prove - that Turek thinks he's a brilliant apologist and expert on life!

This is not a modest man. 😁

[Pecansforeveryone]

My favorite counter apologist is Myth Vision with Derek Lambert. He has so many wonderful scholars from so many specialties. 

[thoughtful]

On 4/2/2023 at 9:08 PM, Pecansforeveryone said:

My favorite counter apologist is Myth Vision with Derek Lambert. He has so many wonderful scholars from so many specialties. 

He's on my list of people to check out.

In the meantime - @Alisamer, take note! Answers in Genesis is upset because someone has created a meatball to go with those giant neolithic chickpeas!

Spoiler

 

 

[thoughtful]

Today I learned that there is a children's book about the mark of the beast.

There is a children's book about the mark of the beast. 

It's a picture book, clearly aimed at little kids, with a contract for them to sign.

This little gem includes people burning in hell, the weirdness of Revelation, lots of guilt and fear, conspiracy theories about chips and scanners, and so much more.

There are guidelines for teaching your kids to refuse the mark by not letting anyone give them a hand stamp or wristband for use at an amusement park or event, or let anyone paint their face, to get them in the habit of turning down such things.

Oh, no! Was Lolly the clown giving kids the mark of the beast? Steve Maxwell, how could you let that happen? No wonder your daughters are running wild now!

Emma Thorne makes it somewhat less horrible to hear about, with her humor and outrage.

NSFW.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by thoughtful
riffle

[thoughtful]

Allen Parr illustrates the "are you really sure you're saved" fear-mongering we were just discussing on the Rod thread, and Prophet of Zod takes it apart.