Do you feel sorry for the sons as much as the daughters?

[Walking Cat Bed]

I feel for ANY child born into that dysfunction. Boys aren't much better off than girls, even with their inherent status as Male; if they aren't content to start a lawnmowing business or become another fundy pastor, if they don't enjoy being "special" due to being born into fundamentalist patriarchy, if they don't think that sex with ANY wife makes up for almost guaranteed poverty and too many kids...They're fucked. Being born with a penis isn't a guarantee of happiness.

Most of them aren't going to be born into relatively well-off families, either. The Duggar boys are (or were) damned lucky, economically; being Jim Bob Duggar's son puts them closer to their non-fundamentalist peers. I'd be willing to bet good coffee that, if ten men in their early twenties applied for a blue-collar type job, the Duggar would be in the three they call for an interview.

They still have more agency and potential within their world than any girl, but boys don't have it "good". They have it better than girls.

If we're talking individual scales, my sympathy for the girls is at 100%; boys at 80%. If we're talking pie chart, girls are 60% and boys 40%.

And, current situation: I feel intense sympathy for everyone born into that family who is not named Joshua. The rest of the boys, JD down, likely couldn't do much to keep their asshole brother away from their sisters. If JD was in the same "private" room with Josh, that just made JD his babysitter. I strongly doubt that any of the boys were given an opportunity to deliver some good protective brother retribution, and the changes in the house rules (keeping male and female siblings separated to prevent further "incidents") meant that any concerned brothers couldn't casually hang out with their sisters to scare off Josh. So I feel a good bit of sympathy for them; they knew something was wrong, they knew their older sisters were sad but not allowed to be sad, they might have even known that Josh did SOMETHING but nobody would tell them what. The few that were inherently closer to a sister than their brothers were told that it was wrong to want to spend time with that sister. Yeah, I feel sympathy for the boys in that house.

[VapingindaCity]

I never understood why Fundies dont believe in actual college. DERRICK went to a secular College, maybe he was realistic about supporting a family. But do they like to keep everyone Isolated so they cant be contradicted? Or Worse Converted?

I defy think the environment he was raised in, defy made shit worse... waaay worse..

I feel sorry for everyone, if u remember The duggars and the Bates lived in Tiny ass houses with huge ass families . One stove, one washer/dryer .. I think the Duggars were 14/15 kids, 2 adults in a 3 bedroom house right? They might had their own business but $ was defy an issue. Not sure if the kids had health insurance since most of them were self-employed. ..

Actually the boys and the girls are supposed to stay home until marriage. And The Man usually makes the rules in the married home . I Dont think the girls get to make much decisions once married since ur supposed to trust ur husband's leadership according to them..

maybe Jessa can get Ben to do some things sometimes, but He's been posting a lot of vids and stuff online about faith. Lots of it polarizing (like critical of Catholics) so hes really drinking the Kool-aid.

Part of me thinks he was a fanboy that married Jessa to become a famaous preacher but thats another story for another day. .

I usually feel worse for the girls, mostly cuz ur encouraged to only be a home maker. See Jill dropped all her plans of midwifery once she got hitched. .. Anna has no skills, if she leaves josh she will be shunned w/o a support system .. Jessa only a HS diploma with a 19 yr old husband...

Atleast the men are encouraged to work even if its only Manual labor & Construction. Girls are baby makers and there only time outside is to the supermarket. .. its a lot of pressure on both sexes .. . I think they all buy used & save the difference cuz they must had been seriously struggling .. same thing with being debt free

Does JB & Gil pay the boys a wage or just an allowance??

Girl: babysitter, maid, graduate to Babymaker, Maid, and sex slave.

BOY: unpaid day laborer graduates to Head of household who must support 100 kids on a BS HS diploma

[Toothfairy]

I do feel for the boys. If one wanted to be a midwife they couldn't because that's a woman's job. If they wanted to go to real school they can't. But they do have moreprivileges than the girls. in fundie land boys are treated like royalty. Women must obey, have sex whenever he wants and follow headship. At least the boys have options. But then they can't be trusted not to get a boner at a woman in shorts.

[teacherjane]

I feel sorry for all the kids, but more for the girls. Their options are much more limited; at 25 they are already considered old maids and not fulfilling their "God-given duty" to have as many children as possible to populate the earth, or what have you. A boy at 25 is not considered an "old maid," but probably has received some kind of training and is considered a catch for younger women.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I think the molestation of the poor Duggar girls and their parents' handling of the aftermath tells us all anything we'd want to know about how females are treated in their world.

So no, I'd never feel as sorry for their sons.

If Josh had been molesting his little brothers, I don't think the parents would have dealt with it any better than they did with the girls. Also, in Quiverfull families the boys seem to bear the brunt of the physical abuse. I expect in families with many boys, there's a lot of bullying that the parents overlook. In the Duggar family, Jim Bob has this competitive thing going on with his sons and with other males. At times, he himself comes off looking like a bully. Look how he humiliated Ben, making him clean toilets and live in that little hovel in the garage.

[bingbangboom]

Agreed. If the victims would have been male nothing would have been done outside the walls of that home. No church elders, no letter in a book, no emails to Harpo, and certainly no police report.

You know what they say about being caught with a dead woman or a live boy.

All of these kids deserve some level of understanding and empathy, perhaps at different levels. Although I feel like you either sympathize or you don't, I'm not sure how to measure that.

[lilah]

I remember Meredith (of striving to serve at home)'s brother blogging about overcoming the sin of lust. His "sins" were doing a few searches for pornography and masturbating. The result of him admitting his lust was that his courtship fell through. It's kind of absurd to think to see how fundies pathologize sexuality.

[19 cats and counting]

Do the unmarried boys really have an option to leave? We have speculated before if John-David is really still sharing a dorm room with his tween brothers, and the man is skilled enough to be capable of supporting himself and it's speculated that he already owns a house. Whether he still lives at home or not, he still has a lot more freedom than his (slightly older) twin sister does). Why is it that Joseph Duggar was the first to go to college instead of one of the older sisters?

Yes married boys do leave (see the Kellers-- one son left after marriage and one daughter's husband and her left after marriage) and aren't as shunned as a single woman leaving (again see the Kellers).

However JB and M's handling of Josh's behavior tells me everything. They chose to protect one son at the expense of four daughters.

[FoxyMoxie]

The boys get abused too. Abused in a different way but still abused.

And note that the fundie upbringing doesn't seem (as far as we know) to have turned JD, Joe, or Josiah into abusers.

[justoneoftwo]

As sorry, maybe not. But the fundi boys have little choice in how their lives will go either. They can't get a job where they work for non fundies because they may be put under the authority of a women. They must produce huge families, which they then must support, but can't given that they can't have real jobs. They must be responsible for the salvation of those families, they must be properly male at all times and so on. Basically they have a huge amount of stress placed on them and little to no way out. Yes they have more of a way out than the girls, but not by much.

[DGayle]

If one wanted to be a midwife they couldn't because that's a woman's job.

If a non-fundy man wanted to be a midwife, he'd had a damned hard time finding any women, regardless of religion, willing to hire him. It's midWIFE, not midHUSBAND, for a reason. It is largely the domain of women.

[Childless]

I do feel somewhat sorry for the boys. Not because they end up being responsible for supporting a family (I'm the sole breadwinner in my family right now and have been for the last 5 years. It's a little stressful, but really not all that bad. Of course, I have a college degree and only 2 children.), but because their choices in life are limited by their poor education and their dreams are crushed just as often as the dreams of the girls. Look at Josh. He dreamed of being a lawyer. We all saw how far he got there. Any profession that would require a college degree is pretty much off the table. What really makes me feel sorry for them though is the fact that they are all taught that they have absolutely no self control and would run around raping anything walking upright on two legs if not for people screaming "Nike!" at them while wearing potato sacks. What does that do to their self-esteem?

The girls though, do have it worse. At least the boys will some day get to be adults able to make their own choices in life. The girls are expected to go from obeying daddy to obeying hubby and never having control over their own lives. That's what would drive me insane. Never having control of my life. I'm fiercely independent and having to turn over decision making to someone else is my own personal hell.

[alba]

If a non-fundy man wanted to be a midwife, he'd had a damned hard time finding any women, regardless of religion, willing to hire him. It's midWIFE, not midHUSBAND, for a reason. It is largely the domain of women.

And that reason is the sex of the patient, not the person providing care.

In all seriousness, though, aren't there a lot of male obstetricians? If women are okay hiring them to deliver their babies, why not a male midwife?

[FoxyMoxie]

Do you hire obstetricians in the US? Is there a choice?

There are certainly male midwives working for the NHS in the UK - less common than female midwives, but they exist. I'm sure it helps that it's the NHS that does the hiring and not individuals (it seems very odd to me to hire a midwife or doctor!).

So the NHS is a non-fundie employer who is perfectly happy to employ male midwives.

[alba]

Do you hire obstetricians in the US? Is there a choice?

There are certainly male midwives working for the NHS in the UK - less common than female midwives, but they exist. I'm sure it helps that it's the NHS that does the hiring and not individuals (it seems very odd to me to hire a midwife or doctor!).

So the NHS is a non-fundie employer who is perfectly happy to employ male midwives.

I think Americans do get a choice, because the healthcare's all privatised.