Josh Duggar alleged sexual abuse - new developments

[NotALoserLikeYou]

It seems to me if an incident like this would have happened in the Duggar home to one of the siblings the police officer taking the report would have had to call in Child Protective Services and Josh be removed from the home until after a complete investigation was done. The fact that this never went far and that the alleged victim's parents never came forward to push this case seems to lead back to the "Sin in Camp" rumors from years ago.

A friends son was arrested two yes ago for a juvenile sex crime, which he confessed to. He was never given any restrictions about contact with minors while the process happened. His sister was a minor living in the home at the time. He got probation and therapy and stayed in the home.

[zadie]

Not all cops want to stay cops forever, but Hignite's Linkedin says he's currently a sergeant with the Springdale PD and he's been there since '98.

The alleged basic timeline appears to be as follows:

Someone (Jim Bob allegedly, but maybe not) reports an incident involving Josh and a girl in a bedroom circa 2005 to the State Police. The trooper who takes the report is named Joseph Hutchens and happens to be a former Fayetteville cop.

Hutchens either intentionally does nothing with the report or is interrupted by a sudden need to retire and become a bailiff. In September of 2005, less than a year after retiring, he is arrested for possession of kiddie porn. We don't know what, if any, investigation into the Josh allegations was done.

Some years later, someone contacts the Springdale police, (Hignite?) presumably to inquire about the old report. At that point, the statute of limitations has run on the alleged crime so no action can or will be taken by the police regardless of whether the allegations could be proven or not.

Any truth to this strange story or some version of it? Who knows, but Hignite should be able to clarify whether a report existed or whether someone smoking a lot of dope just decided to make this all up. Using real names.

The only way I could see this making sense is if the cop, since he apparently was also looking at kiddie porn, agreed to sweep it under the rug. People like that often come up with reasons to justify or explain their behaviors. Maybe after the initial shock was done with, the two fundie families agreed that they should handle it within their church, hence Josh apologizing. Which sounds like a very fundie mindset to me.

I'm not saying it did happen, but this is the only version that makes sense to me.

[zz22zz]

I DO believe Jim Bob reported Josh for cause, and IMO, but not factually known, the victim was likely one of his sisters, because I don't think he had access to any other girl's bedroom.

Also the U.K, article states" Jim Bob Duggar allegedly turned his son in to Arkansas State Police after 'he caught him leaving a young girl’s bedroom and learned something inappropriate happened'.

What other girl's bedroom did teen Josh have access to?

.

Doesn't this version of the story support what people have said about JB and JChelle overly freaking out about everything sexual? Maybe JB walked in on Josh rubbing his sister's shoulders (which is ehhh but depends on intent and consent) and freaked the bleep out and took Josh down to the station for a police officer friend to 'talk to him' and it wound up as police report since the officer had to document why he was spending his work time talking to them. Creative embellishment by the tabloids from would explain why some details are inaccurate. I can just see the report being considered a must read in the local police department, as in look how fanatical JB Duggar is ...read this report he made on his own son....

and yes my thoughts on this are partially clouded by the hope that even though I think Josh is blehhh I do not want to even consider he would have children if he was truly caught actually molesting a sister or another girl who was not a romantic consensual partner and his age. And yes I realize that molesters have children of their own all the time, I just wish that wasn't reality.

[aggieluv17]

The sordid story has been picked up on the U.K. Daily Mail site. So it's now gone international ( although the Internet is international anyway).

There's a photo of pitiful pregnant Anna with her " man" and also photos of the state policeman who was sent to prison for 56 years for child pornography related to this case.

I DO believe Jim Bob reported Josh for cause, and IMO, but not factually known, the victim was likely one of his sisters, because I don't think he had access to any other girl's bedroom.

Also the U.K, article states" Jim Bob Duggar allegedly turned his son in to Arkansas State Police after 'he caught him leaving a young girl’s bedroom and learned something inappropriate happened'.

What other girl's bedroom did teen Josh have access to?

The police are now saying that the huge tragedy in all this is that the statue of limitations has now run out.

[b]A technicality (this is referencing the statue of limitations cited in a previous statement) prevented any further action,†a source told the magazine.

'That’s been the biggest regret in all of this.'

Another source backed up this story, saying; 'I saw and read the report and it clearly stated that Jim Bob brought his son Josh into the Arkansas State Police and spoke to a state trooper about Josh’s involvement in alleged inappropriate touching with a minor.' End of news facts.

My own comments to follow:

I hate fucked up Josh Duggar more than there are words in the dictionary.

Whoever Josh hurt, he got off free and clear of any charges, but the girl was still abused in some way,no one knows how deep the abuse went because he was a minor and she was a minor.

And NOW, he has children of his own to molest.

Also, I don't believe for one second that Jim Bob didn't tell Anna and her parents about this before she married Josh. Since he did the right thing about turning his son in, I believe he told the Kellers prior to Anna's deep involvement with Josh.

They've been sitting on this hoping it would go away for 10 years.

Josh is slime. A 16 year old knows to leave little girls in their bedrooms alone.

If Anna knew and married him, then I'm not sure, but it's possible that she's also a sleaze for bringing innocent children into the world and under his control. Because he's not normal.

And somewhere, a girl who is either a Duggar daughter or someone the family was close to at one time was hurt and received no justice and probably no counseling either, the fundies being what they are regarding things like professional (non- clergy) psychological help.

My statements are IMO only. The facts are the facts, though.

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something. But what facts? Now, don't get me wrong. I hate Josh Duggar just as much as the next person. I think he is absolute scum, but to blatantly accuse him of sexual molestation (especially of one of his sisters) is absolutely disgusting. Especially when you truly have no proof to back this up. This article is a typical hear-say article. Unnamed multiple sources? Give me a break. Accusations like this can ruin lives even if you can prove that they're not true. That's why I hate when stories like these break before there is any factual evidence against a person. Shit like this causes people to lose their jobs and their families and all they've ever known. So how can you sit there and just out right accuse Josh of such a heinous crime with little to no "proof" and InTouch magazine as your "source"? That's ridiculous. And disgusting.

This guilty until proven innocent thing is such bull. Josh is an awful person and there's nothing he could ever do to make me like him, but I refuse to believe he'd stoop this low until there is actual proof against him. If the Duggars know what's right for them, they'd make a statement denying it and try to sue for libel and slander. The longer they sit around in silence (ten years and counting) the worse it looks and the easier it is for people to believe such accusations. Now it just looks like they have something to hide. But I have my doubts about their intelligence so I doubt they'll comment more on the matter.

If the allegations are true, then shame on Jim Bob and shame on Josh. Just when I would think they couldn't get any worse, they'd have gone and proven me wrong. If the allegations are false, then shame on whoever came up with this rumor. Lies about sexual assault are damaging both to those who are falsely accused and those who are actual victims of assault. It's awful.

Remember, though, it's the Duggars. What is seen as bad in Jim Bob's eyes might be something that most normal people wouldn't even blink at. A peck on the cheek, holding someone's hand, a front hug, and a quick kiss are all on par with sex for the Duggars. I wouldn't put it past JB to flip out over something so miniscule.

[sense and nonsense]

I call total bull shit.

Does anybody really think that Jim Bob would actually report his own son?

This is the guy who believes that female knees defraud men. We all know that victim blaming would be word of the day at TTH if this happened.

Can we just stop discussing this?

Like every new detail that the gossip mags tack on to the story (WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE) is oh so important.

Usually I don't give a fuck about the level of speculation on FJ, but this is downright dangerous, nobody deserves wrongful accusation of sexual assault.

[RosyDaisy]

Can we please stop speculating who the victim is. If (and that's a BIG if) any part of the story is true, the victim may not want her identity known.

[servants-heart]

I call total bull shit.

Does anybody really think that Jim Bob would actually report his own son?

This is the guy who believes that female knees defraud men. We all know that victim blaming would be word of the day at TTH if this happened.

Can we just stop discussing this?

Like every new detail that the gossip mags tack on to the story (WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE) is oh so important.

Usually I don't give a fuck about the level of speculation on FJ, but this is downright dangerous, nobody deserves wrongful accusation of sexual assault.

I agree here, I'm pretty bothered by some of the things people are speculating about! And come on, the Daily Mail?! These media outlets report nothing but trash 99% of the time. This is a serious allegation and even if it's totally baseless, this would still be damaging for Josh and his family.

It's been said above but I'll say it again, I in not way support or agree with anything Josh and the Duggars stand for, but some of the speculation here is way way out of line, especially because of the lack of any credible information.

[mpheels]

So if Josh does not file a lawsuit, would you then infer that he has something to hide?

Nope. not at all. I think this is a nasty rumor. It keeps taking on new life and new details, but never hold water for me. I don't think Josh is in any way obligated to address it in any way. But, if Josh has aspirations for a career beyond TLC, he will probably need to address it eventually. When it was just vague chatter, it was hard to address. Now that it is shaping into a fully formed story, I think it's easier to prove "the truth" one way or another, if Josh should so choose.

[RosyDaisy]

Umm...the quote states that JB caught Josh. It did not state that JB turned Josh in.

[MisUndrstd]

There is lack of a credible news source reporting this. The news sources that are reporting this are rumor mill rag mags. So, I'm not going to speculate anymore on the case and just say if something really serious would have happened, then it is the police department's fault for not following up, they need to shoulder the blame because it was allegedly reported. So I'm chalking this up to speculation and rumor.

[mpheels]

Apparently the AR State Police does have a dedicated division to investigate crimes against children, so I guess it makes sense that they would be involved in this hypothetical scenario: asp.arkansas.gov/divisions/crimes-against-children/

Of course, that also begs the question - why didn't InTouch reach out to the Washington County administrator for the crimes against children division? Or did they, but the quote didn't help them tell the story they wanted to tell?

[amers]

All I keep thinking when I'm reading through this thread is Jinger saying at Jessa's wedding and basically sobbing about "All she'd been through." and we were all like "WTH has SHE ever been through?" I'm disturbed that there is a police report, and the JB was the one to turn him in. I don't think a family who is in the public eye would risk ruining all that by taking their son to the police for sexual abuse if it wasn't serious. It just seems really odd and I hope there is a statement given to clear things up.

[HarleyQuinn]

I was shocked when I saw this on the Daily Mail this morning.

Actually, not that shocked. I'm surprised it took this long for other outlets to be speculating about this. Either way, as much as I hate Josh, I kind of feel like if there was something, it was probably consensual, but their ultra religious beliefs made JB and J'chelle see it as 10000x worse. For all we know they front hugged. :lol:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Except, you know, being sexually abused.

I've been sexually abused on multiple occasions. I would take sexual abuse over being wrongfully accused of sexual abuse.

[MisUndrstd]

All I keep thinking when I'm reading through this thread is Jinger saying at Jessa's wedding and basically sobbing about "All she'd been through." and we were all like "WTH has SHE ever been through?" I'm disturbed that there is a police report, and the JB was the one to turn him in. I don't think a family who is in the public eye would risk ruining all that by taking their son to the police for sexual abuse if it wasn't serious. It just seems really odd and I hope there is a statement given to clear things up.

Girls at that age are overly emotional. I have 2 girls 20 and 18 and they always talk like they've been to hell and back and I know they haven't.. because I've always protected them and took good care of them, they come from a stable home and the biggest crisis in their lives have been losing a friend over a boy or something like that... but to hear them tell the story, it's traumatic. So Jinger getting emotional at a time where she was losing her best friend (Jessa) to Ben Seewald (ick) doesn't make me think she was abused in any way it just makes me think she is an emotional young lady like so many are.

[InThePrayerCloset]

I've read about the Holt girl rumors here on FJ for years. I could be wrong, but I disagree that it was her and that he made confession. I don't think think this was about her, just in the way law enforcement says they wish they could go forward with the case now, but can't. It doesn't seem to me that mutual kissing and touching between two teens of similar age would get them on Josh's butt like that. It seems to me that he hurt or otherwise exploited a much younger girl, IMO, from dealing with CPS and LE for years when child abuse victims presented to the Level One trauma center where I was a supervisor.

I don't think he made any public confession, or we would already KNOW what Josh did, and this would have been a media story 10 years ago.

Someone in that church at that time would have talked before now because the Duggars are famous and this would have been the big money story on their eldest son. And because surely someone would have been as outraged then as the law enforcement seems to be at this late date.( referencing underlined statement).

Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster. The nature of this recurrent rumour and my professional experience has brought me out of lurker-dom and into the light. I apologise in advance if i have made etiquette missteps. Please forgive me :D

I'm an attorney who has a long history in prosecution of sex offences and i have spent the last couple of years working exclusively on Australia's Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. This is a massive, national investigation backed by the authority of the Australian government/Queen (hence the "Royal") investigating all groups that have had child sexual abuse issues since Australia was "settled" by the British in 1788. Needless to say, this is a little tiny court case... The main groups investigated so far include the Catholic Church, Anglican / Episcopalian church, scouts, orthodox jews and a yoga ashram. So as a result, I've been dealing with a plethora of different groups responses to child sex abuse (but have been specialising in Christian religious organisations). I thought that my insights might be of interest FJ...

I'd like to preface this by saying that i'm not suggesting that this is anything more than a vicious rumour - i just thought these insights might be helpful.

One of the major challenges to prosecution has been amongst religions that have well developed mechanisms of confession and/or absolution. The most well known manifestation of this is the significant and widespread occurrence of sex abuse by clergy of the Catholic Church. In these instances, once a priest or other offender confesses, they are absolved / forgiven and there is no need for the "sin" to go any further - it is literally as though it never happened. One perpetrator i dealt with literally confessed to raping young boys in a primary school at least 3 times per week for a number of years to his superior priest - and by this i mean confessing to *new* instances of assault multiple times per week for years. :angry-banghead: Given he had humbled himself before god and was absolved of his sin, his superior priest never deemed it "necessary" to report it to anyone else - whether secular or religious. This, unfortunately, has been the norm rather than the exception again and again in this litigation. This religious doctrine regarding the absolution of confession is coupled with the idea of no man judging another man, and leaving ultimate judgment to God. I thought this insight about the confession of sins within a Christian context might be helpful - even though i realise (thanks Ben! :? ) that Catholic rites of "confession" are different and more formalised than those of other religions, i believe from preliminary research that similar principles (humbling before god, divine absolution/judgment and forgiveness) are at work in ATI.

i agree that IF (and that's a very BIG IF) Josh had confessed before a mass congregation in Tonitown its likely the tabloids (or others) would have found someone there to recount the story. However, that does not suggest that if he had 'confessed' before the church of the holy storage unit / home church, it would not be possible/feisable for these "facts" to have some basis in reality. The story could therefore have a vague factual basis... and in my prosecution experience, most persistent rumours more often than not have some (even if very limited) basis in concrete fact. Therefore such a "confession" may have taken place in relative private, without those outside the family / ATI insiders present who might be swayed to sell their story to the tabloids. Then you get the factual basis of the story, the absolution of confession, without the random congregants selling their story or the need for temporal authorities to judge what god has already heard. I'm not suggesting that this actually happened, just reiterating what i would investigate further or narrate as a possibility before a jury.

In my experience, it is very very rare for a victim to make entirely spurious allegations of child sex abuse. This is not to say it doesn't happen, but just that it is *incredibly* rare for a victim to do so - i have not had a single case in 10+ years of prosecuting or assisting in the prosecution of hundreds of child sex offences. Sometimes the "degree" and extent is exaggerated (including intentional exaggeration, passive suggestion, or in an "accidental" way by a traumatised or innocent child victim using the wrong sexual terminology), but its very rare for it to be 100%, entirely baseless. that is IF a complaint is made by a victim - i'm not suggesting that there actually was a complaint made forming a factual basis for this rumour - merely that IF there was indeed a report to an authority figure (whether police or law enforcement), it would be very unusual for a victim to make entirely spurious allegations.

That's not to say that JB / Jchelle didn't walk in on the entirely innocent behaviour suggested elsewhere in the thread (pre marital hand holding, front hugs or even :o a kiss) and reported it off their own bat without the girl or her family' involvement - i'm simply saying that IF the alleged victim reported it (whether to her family or authorities) my experience suggests that it is incredibly rare for such an admission to be completely without some factual basis.

I'm not trying to sit on the fence or say it definitely happened, just offer some insights from the last couple of years I've spent as a lawyer looking entirely at sex abuse in religious organisations.

i hope that that is of some help - and apologies for the "Essay" of my first post - what can i say, i'm a lawyer! I'm paid by the minute, so brevity isn't always my strong suit!!

Edited because i got stage fright and forgot how to spell...

[MissBitters]

Didn't FJ determine that Razing Ruth was the originator of the rumor on the Television Without Pity boards years ago when she was using a different name there? I would be very cautious to accept this as fact until proven otherwise. Josh is an ass, but even he doesn't deserve to have false accusations of this nature attached to his name. It can have some really negative consequences for him, Anna, and his children.

[Firiel]

Courtesy of the Wayback Machine, here's the earliest known reference to "sin in the camp": https://web.archive.org/web/20041115205 ... post=95753 (do a CTRL + F search for "concernedmon")

That particular forum shows the IP addresses of posters, and hers was apparently from Rogers, AR according to this site: http://www.iplocation.net/

Here's the earliest known reference to the molestation rumors: ibiblio.org/bascha/blog/2006/03/21/gigantic-family-day-on-tlc/

Considering the tabloids have been known to cite FJ members as anonymous inside sources, I have no faith that these "sources" are not just random Internet people from days gone by who claim to be in the know like April or concernedmom.

[Firiel]

Didn't FJ determine that Razing Ruth was the originator of the rumor on the Television Without Pity boards years ago when she was using a different name there? I would be very cautious to accept this as fact until proven otherwise. Josh is an ass, but even he doesn't deserve to have false accusations of this nature attached to his name. It can have some really negative consequences for him, Anna, and his children.

Here is the claim that Razing Ruth (under jhawksgirl) started the Oprah rumor: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=713&p=15011&hilit=jhawksgirl#p15011

Unfortunately, those links go nowhere because TWOP is defunct. I'll see if the Wayback Machine brings anything up.

EDIT: No such luck. That's incredibly frustrating. Can anyone with more technical savvy than I have help me out? It might really be important to this issue. If RR posted this rumor before Alice, we can be pretty certain it's a load of shit.

[MissBitters]

Thanks Firiel! I was having a hard time finding past posts about the connection between Razing Ruth and the original rumor. Maybe someone has screenshot of those TWOP posts somewhere?

[Firiel]

I think our best hope is that a long-time member will point us to where this topic was discussed on the yuku forum.

I went there and tried searching, but I'm not sure that function even works.

HALP.

[Snarkangel Gabriel]

Before lending too much credence to Britain's finest newspaper I would review the following carefully:

http://www.shouldireadthedailymail.com/

[halcionne]

Umm...the quote states that JB caught Josh. It did not state that JB turned Josh in.

Radar Online:

According to a bombshell new report, a recently uncovered police report shows reality son Josh Duggar was the “alleged offender†in a shocking underage sex abuse probe — and his own father turned him in to authorities!

and

According to multiple sources who have seen the police report and are familiar with the case, Jim Bob Duggar allegedly turned his son Josh into the Arkansas State Police after he discovered him leaving an underage girl’s bedroom and “learned something inappropriate happened,†one source told In Touch.

Radar isn't a trustworthy news outlet, but that's what they're reporting. And since they cited In Touch:

The charge being pursued while Josh was a minor was sexual assault in the fourth degree, multiple sources who have seen the police report and are familiar with the case told In Touch. According to the report, Josh was brought into the Arkansas State Police by his father, Jim Bob, who said he caught him leaving a young girl’s bedroom and “learned something inappropriate happened,†one source said.

This one leaves more room for speculation, imo. Someone upthread suggested JB might have taken Josh in at investigators' request.

But the whole story is bullshit, imo, and tabloids quoting tabloids isn't good journalism, just saying.

Also, it's not always prudent, from a public relations perspective, to respond to rumors; even to deny them. Often times all it does is draw more attention and perhaps increase the story's credibility.

[ofMatthew]

Oh geez, so Josh side hugged a girl after dark!?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Jim-Bob was a politician and had higher aspirations at that time so YES, he would have turned his son in. Do I believe all of this? No. The "child" whoever it was was likely his own age, but legally a child. In a normal family it would have been "making out" [Whatever kissing and groping with clothes fully on is called today]. That's my 2 cents.