Josh Duggar alleged sexual abuse - new developments

[MisUndrstd]

Yeah, it's really hard, with the quote from the police officer, to dismiss it as complete fabrication. I'm more inclined now to believe that *something* happened - but what? The whole thing is just really odd. I expect that they'll have to address this sooner or later or Josh's political career will be scuttled before it even began.

I think any aspirations for a political career are over for Josh anyway. I hope he will go to college and continue his education so he can support his family now. I think the Duggars' TV reign is about to be over with. This has the ability to really kill the show, it's time to get the kids better educated so they can make it in the World without being on TV. No doubt he will be resigning soon from FRC.

[twinmama]

I don't really care about Josh's supposed political career as when it comes to high level politics, he is way too dumb and uneducated to have any real chance. I feel bad for him and his family if it is not true. And, while my sympathy would be secondary to the victim obviously, I would also have a bit for him if it happened when he was a brainwashed uneducated minor if it is true.

[zz22zz]

as I said before the police officer's quote, if real, just could mean a police file exists. Which again could have been JB taking Josh in a for a scared straight conversation and again what JB considers molestation and what the rest of the world considers molestation are two different lists.

PLUS if a police officer supposedly supplied insider information why would they quote the charge wrong? It was already discredited that he couldn't be charged in the 4th degree since he wasn't 20.

ALSO isn't it possible In Touch called the police and asked for comment on charges of something Josh did at 17 and the officer stated they can't comment on cases involving minors, not specifically that he couldn't comment on Josh Duggar's case or that even a case existed. In other words In Touch could have easily twisted the officer's blanket statement of 'we don't discuss cases involving minors' into quoting the officer as saying he couldn't comment on a specific case.

What I do know is all of the actual details of anything actually criminal happening seem to be based ONLY online posting by supposed Friend of a Friend of the Duggars, isn't that EXACTLY what defines an URBAN LEGEND?

[FloraDoraDolly]

Count me among the skeptics. Most parents would not turn in their own child to the police, no matter what the kid did. I know of a family where one brother *murdered* the other and the mom wouldn't talk to the cops!

If there was another ATI family involved, I can't see that other dad going to the police, either. These people belong to a subculture that prefers to ignore these sorts of problems, or else they deal with them in-house. Look how all the Gothardites covered up for Gothard himself, even when their own daughters were the victims!

This whole story just doesn't pass the smell test.

[Alye]

No where in any of the articles does it say who was inappropriately touched. What if it was Josh? What if he's the victim?

[halcionne]

Wonkette's not buying it. http://wonkette.com/586106/oh-did-dumb- ... like-jesus

[happy atheist]

Was "concernedmom" from that 2005 post found to be the same ip/person as "ofduggar" in the 2009 post aka razing Ruth?

Not to my knowledge. I've never heard of concernedmom before.

[mebeforee]

I guess I can say that I'm suspicious but not totally disbelieving. I think if there's no further information from anyone, the story will probably be discarded by most as rumor. But as with any news story, the lack of response from the parties involved does confuse the matter for now. If the officer quoted doesn't come forward to clarify his meaning, or if the Duggars don't address the issue, there will always be people who assume it is true. I'm not sure if they would outnumber the fans to the extent of damaging the Duggar gravy train, and maybe the Duggars think it will just pass if they don't worry about it because of how strong their fan support is.

The idea of JB taking Josh to the cops is a shocking one to me, not something I would have ever imagined would happen. But since the ideal they portray is so consistently different from what we know their religious culture believes and how they behave, I'm not sure if it would really be out of character for Jim Bob. We don't know what his character is like when the cameras aren't there. Rebellion and lack of obedience are like the #1 crime for these people, and is typically punished. If JimBob told Josh that any romantic contact without supervision was sexual in nature and therefore unacceptable, he may have wanted to punish Josh for any transgression that happened. I don't see him taking his son to the police for something that was consensual or even for a number of non-consensual situations, because in so many cases he could easily convince those around him that the girl was to blame. But I don't know that it's completely unbelievable he'd take Josh to the police at all, especially since this would have happened before the TV series, before the public eye was on them so closely. So while I want to say that JB would only take Josh to the police if he thought a violent rape had occurred, I don't know if that's true because the Duggars display themselves without revealing ANY of their disciplinary methods, so it's hard to say what would be possible there.

[mebeforee]

Also, can I just point out that the language of the crime referenced (sexual assault of the fourth degree in Arkansas) continually specifies that the under-16 victim is NOT the spouse of the actor? So if the couple is married it doesn't count? Even if the wife is under 16? WTF is that specification there for, does anyone know? What's the youngest age you can legally marry in the US??

[halcionne]

Radar found the state trooper and also papped J&A plus 2 kids at the airport. I just.

[MisUndrstd]

I wonder what the effect will be on JD? I mean he works for the PD, Will he be able to continue working there? I mean right now the PD must be taking some heat because IF it is true what the "sources" said it would have had to come from within the PD because they would have had access to such allegations. Juvenile records are supposed to be sealed and since this never went to court and is over the statute of limitations it probably should have been destroyed long ago. So I imagine there is some heads spinning in the Springdale PD right now... there is a leak there somewhere, IF there is any truth to this. Big IF. But really all it would take to calm this down is for that Sgt. Darrel Hignite to come out and say "I was misquoted by In Touch magazine I did not mean to imply there was a case against Josh Duggar, I was simply stating that I could not talk about a case involving juveniles If there was one."

[Toothfairy]

Count me among the skeptics. Most parents would not turn in their own child to the police, no matter what the kid did. I know of a family where one brother *murdered* the other and the mom wouldn't talk to the cops!

If there was another ATI family involved, I can't see that other dad going to the police, either. These people belong to a subculture that prefers to ignore these sorts of problems, or else they deal with them in-house. Look how all the Gothardites covered up for Gothard himself, even when their own daughters were the victims!

This whole story just doesn't pass the smell test.

Well some parents including me would Turn their child in if they did something wrong. I don't know what to believe of the rumors but fundies do sweep abuse under the rug.

[JessaJessa]

I wonder if JimBob spoke with Sgt. Hignite because he was also a fundie? Maybe wanted to scare Josh?

I don't believe any allegations at this point. I do think Josh will have to speak up and deny once and for all, possibly clearing his name by saying there was never a police report, ect.

I wonder if JD would have access to the files if they do exist.

[Mitz_]

Well some parents including me would Turn their child in if they did something wrong. I don't know what to believe of the rumors but fundies do sweep abuse under the rug.

Where there is a minor in a bedroom there will also be said minor's parents and if her parents knew that Josh was in her room, you bet your sweet ass Jim Bob would turn Josh in if that is what they wanted. Why is this so hard to believe?

[fabkiwi06]

I hope it's not true. There are so many little things that don't seem right about it...

Two minors involved means we'll never see the court papers. If whatever Josh did was "bad enough" to warrant being named and shamed in the paper as a minor, this board would have dragged it out by now.

If it was one of the Duggar girls, I think we'd pick up on more awkward avoidance in the show. They helped deliver Anna's babies... they're as friendly with Josh as they are with any of their brothers.

Unless said victim voluntarily reveals herself, I'm counting this as a rumor. Can't wait to see Pickles' take on it though.

[halcionne]

I wonder if JimBob spoke with Sgt. Hignite because he was also a fundie? Maybe wanted to scare Josh?

I don't believe any allegations at this point. I do think Josh will have to speak up and deny once and for all, possibly clearing his name by saying there was never a police report, ect.

I wonder if JD would have access to the files if they do exist.

Hignite was the second investigator, not the first.

[halcionne]

I hope it's not true. There are so many little things that don't seem right about it...

Two minors involved means we'll never see the court papers. If whatever Josh did was "bad enough" to warrant being named and shamed in the paper as a minor, this board would have dragged it out by now.

If it was one of the Duggar girls, I think we'd pick up on more awkward avoidance in the show. They helped deliver Anna's babies... they're as friendly with Josh as they are with any of their brothers.

Unless said victim voluntarily reveals herself, I'm counting this as a rumor. Can't wait to see Pickles' take on it though.

Pickles believes Radar. And "liked" them on her site, way before this happened.

[SportsgalAnnie]

I feel like I am in the plausible camp until I get evidence either way.

It honestly wouldn't surprise me because in cults stuff like that is common but it also could be something as simple as him looking at a girl the wrong way.

[MisUndrstd]

I'm just chalking it up as rumor too but I would like to see the Duggars defend themselves and Josh, these are very serious allegations and I would think if I were persecuted unjustly I would shout my innocence from the roof tops. But I think they will just ride out the storm and wish it away.

Since this has happened, the wheels in JB's and TLC's heads are spinning, essentially whirling out of control. They need an even bigger Duggar story to break to bury the one going on now. I hate to say it, but this is a doomsday scenario for Jana. IF there is a guy that wants to court her (which most likely there is), even if Jana is on the fence about the guy the pressure from JB and TLC will be on Jana to enter into a courtship and FAST. I hate to say it but I could see Jana, once again being the sacrificial lamb for the family and saving the cash cow that is TLC and the show ratings.

Unfortunately, Josh's spotlight has now diminished. There will not be a televised home birth of M#4.. Josh, Anna and their littles will fall into obscurity, rarely to be seen on the show from this point on. They will probably be sent to South America to do full time missionary work or something because most likely he will have to resign from FRC.

[twinmama]

No where in any of the articles does it say who was inappropriately touched. What if it was Josh? What if he's the victim?

Just clarifying, do you think that JB turned him in to police? And if so, you think he saw his son being abused and blamed his son? Given their "low cut shirt is asking for rape or impure thoughts" beliefs I can't see him blaming Josh for anything that very clearly wasn't Josh's fault.

The ONLY part of this that makes me think it might be more than a horrific rumor is the officer saying it involved minors and can't comment. The rest is too out there for me to believe without proof. And the officer's comment could completely be there was an investigation that led to nothing.

[silverspoons]

I'm not trying to guess if Jim Bob turned Josh in but I knew a parent who did turn their son in. I knew a single father who was a long distance truck driver and got remarried to someone he thought was sweet church going lady to help him with his kids. She turned out to be very abusive when he was gone. The older son would sleep in his sister's room to protect them at first and then the "comforting" took on a sexual nature. The father came home and wanted to first make sure his daughter was okay but in order to get help(at least where we live) the police get involved right away. The son went to live with grandparents for 3 years(until he finished high school) and completed therapy and several required programs and the daughter got the help she needed and he got divorced. I can't see anyway where I live that the police would not be involved. If you take a child to the doctor for an exam, they will contact social services or if you go for counseling , they will call. My 6'4" son broke his arm playing basketball as a teen and I took him to the ER with his friends(that witnessed him breaking the arm) and the hospital still is required to ask the child if abuse was involved and I have to stand on a step stool to help my son tie a tie.

[mpheels]

Just clarifying, do you think that JB turned him in to police? And if so, you think he saw his son being abused and blamed his son? Given their "low cut shirt is asking for rape or impure thoughts" beliefs I can't see him blaming Josh for anything that very clearly wasn't Josh's fault.

The ONLY part of this that makes me think it might be more than a horrific rumor is the officer saying it involved minors and can't comment. The rest is too out there for me to believe without proof. And the officer's comment could completely be there was an investigation that led to nothing.

I'm taking the officer's quote with a huge grain of salt - we don't know what the reporter asked, or how it was asked. The question easily could have been "What would happen if I asked you about a sexual assault investigation involving minors?" The reporter doesn't even have to specify which minors or when the alleged event occurred. Just pitch a hypothetical, get a quote that meets your needs, and move on. Not technically lying, since it is a direct quote, but the quote is used completely out of context. Tabloids routinely do just that so they can tell the story they want to tell while staying within tenuous legal bounds.

[RosyDaisy]

Radar Online:

and

Radar isn't a trustworthy news outlet, but that's what they're reporting. And since they cited In Touch:

This one leaves more room for speculation, imo. Someone upthread suggested JB might have taken Josh in at investigators' request.

But the whole story is bullshit, imo, and tabloids quoting tabloids isn't good journalism, just saying.

Also, it's not always prudent, from a public relations perspective, to respond to rumors; even to deny them. Often times all it does is draw more attention and perhaps increase the story's credibility.

Sorry, I was going by the OP in the thread. I was wrong.

[Firiel]

According to the article about the ex-state trooper:

Hutchens retired as a trooper after 26 years. He was working as a Benton County bailiff when he was arrested in 2005 on child porn charges. He was convicted on eight counts in 2007 and sentenced to prison.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012 ... rn/?latest

According to the article from In Touch:

A bizarre turn of events prevented police and prosecutors from finishing their investigation and possibly prosecuting. The state trooper who originally took the report about Josh shortly before 2005 never followed up. That state trooper was later convicted on child pornography charges and is serving a 56-year prison sentence.

So... if Hutchens was only a bailiff at the time of the incident, then why the hell was he taking reports about Josh? Why was he involved in the case at all? Bailiffs are court officials, right? Not law officers?

Also from In Touch:

When the state trooper ran into trouble, someone from the Arkansas State Police alerted the Child Abuse Hotline about the Duggar situation that had been sitting inactive. That’s when the Crimes Against Children Division and Springdale Police Department got involved. By then the three-year statute of limitations had passed and it would not have been possible to pursue prosecution of Josh if the allegations warranted, so the investigation was discontinued.

No, the retired state trooper/bailiff was arrested in 2005, allegedly within about a year of the incident. The statute of limitations wouldn't have been reached by then.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[halcionne]

Here is the claim that Razing Ruth (under jhawksgirl) started the Oprah rumor: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=713&p=15011&hilit=jhawksgirl#p15011

Unfortunately, those links go nowhere because TWOP is defunct. I'll see if the Wayback Machine brings anything up.

EDIT: No such luck. That's incredibly frustrating. Can anyone with more technical savvy than I have help me out? It might really be important to this issue. If RR posted this rumor before Alice, we can be pretty certain it's a load of shit.

http://web.archive.org/web/201009131207 ... &p=7979376

So that takes care of the Oprah story.