Frmr Orthodox Jewish student sues for poor education

[tropaka]

The government in Quebec subsidized private religious schools on the understanding that secular subjects (languages, mathematics, science including evolution) be taught. One former student (who is fluent in Aramaic but cannot write in French and struggles with English), is suing the government for 1.5 million:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014 ... ation.html

MONTREAL―Yonanan Lowen can read and write in Aramaic, the 3,000-year-old language that likely served as the mother tongue of Jesus Christ.

But despite being raised and schooled for most of his life in the cloistered Hassidic Jewish community of Boisbriand, north of Montreal, the 37-year-old cannot read or write in French, stumbles through English texts and is confounded by the most basic tasks asked of grade-school students.

Lowen’s years of frustration have led him to denounce Quebec’s education ministry, a local school board, the province’s director of youth protection and his two former schools, with demands for $1.25 million in compensation by Dec. 15. Through their collective actions, or failures to act, he argues, he has been deprived of his right to an education under Quebec’s charter of rights and the province’s education law.

“I feel like a child of six years old, alone in the world, who doesn’t have parents, who doesn’t have somebody to take care of him. A child is helpless. He can do nothing by himself and this is how I feel,†Lowen said in an interview, adding he is prepared to launch legal action if necessary.

He survives off of the meagre earnings from a part-time job teaching Aramaic to secular adult Jews at a night school in Montreal and the monthly welfare cheques he receives.

“I feel even worse than that child because that child only has to take care of himself. But I have to take care of my four children.â€

Lowen’s story is only the latest entry in a saga pitting Quebec’s large ultra-orthodox Jewish community against the province’s political class and its sometimes incensed media.

A request in 2006 by a group of Hassidic Jews in Montreal asking the local YMCA to install frosted glass windows so as to shield its members from women in tight-fitting workout clothes, was one of the central sparks in the ensuing crisis over the reasonable accommodation of Quebec’s religious minorities. The debate spawned a government inquiry and has played a starring role in each of the four elections that have been held since 2007.

Unsettled, the issue was resurrected by the Parti Québécois again last year with a proposed values charter that would have banned religious symbols in the public service in order to ensure state secularism.

The proposal died when the PQ was tossed from power, but the matter seems likely to flare again in the future. It could be soon if the current education minister, Yves Bolduc, follows through on his stated goal of shutting down illegal Jewish schools in the province that operate without funding or certification from the education ministry.

Far more difficult to substantiate are partly subsidized private schools that flout or ignore the curriculum, which includes the teaching of evolution theory and a course on religion as a sociological construct rather than dogma.

“People don’t know about the Hassidic schools and how they operate. The principles are quite different, it’s true. But these are quite disciplined schools,†said Pierre Anctil, a University of Ottawa professor specializing in the history and culture of Montreal’s Jewish communities.

“They take education very seriously. This isn’t a joke as we’ve seen sometimes in some very marginal communities that are a creation of one person who likes to be a guru.â€

Yet Lowen’s claim that he was not obligated to master subjects like French, English and mathematics, and that he was discouraged because they would interfere with religious studies, support the public’s worst suspicions about what goes on in these schools. Lowen claims he was told that the time and mental energy put into secular learning was better spent learning about the Torah.

“The perspective is that even someone who is blank and hasn’t learned anything, his soul is more pure than a boy that has learned the ABCs,†he said.

Morton Weinfeld, a professor of sociology and Jewish studies at McGill University, said that even within Quebec’s ultra-orthodox Jewish community there is a range of opinion about the amount of secular instruction students should receive.

“There have been up to seven Hassidic communities in Montreal and they all have had their own schools. This particular school in Boisbriand is toward the more conservative side of the spectrum in terms of being the least secular,†he said. “They probably have very, very little secular education.â€

Messages left with the Oir Hachaim D’Tash Rabbinical College seeking comment were not returned. Another school cited in Lowen’s claim, Yeshiva Beth Yuheda, could not be reached for comment. Neither appears to be certified by Quebec’s education ministry as licensed private schools.

A spokesperson for Bolduc would not comment on the case, saying it was a legal matter.

However, a ministerial committee has been looking at how to deal with Quebec’s uncertified Jewish schools in Quebec for some time now. Its only result to date has been a negotiated settlement announced earlier this month allowing a school in Montreal, Yeshiva Toras Moshe, to continue focusing on matters of faith while leaving parents to homeschool their children in secular subjects.

Reviews have been poor, with critics questioning the ability of parents to teach the curriculum, the ability of local school boards to manage the influx of students and the precedent it sets for other religious schools.

Lowen’s letter to education officials cites the Yeshiva Toras Moshe case as proof the Quebec government knew it had failed in its obligations to students.

In 2006, the education ministry sought an injunction to force the closure of the school, which was established in 1952 and receives no public funding. The application was turned down, in part because the judge could see no reason to impose an emergency solution after a half-century of inaction during which the school’s existence and teaching methods were effectively ignored.

“If the government had intervened as it should have, it would have changed the life of our client,†Lowen’s written claim states.

The Hassidic educators who run these schools also have a responsibility. Yakov Rabkin, an orthodox Jew who teaches history at the Université de Montréal, compared the situation to a driver who never stops at a red light because he knows the police are never there to enforce the traffic laws.

But if provincial authorities are serious about ensuring that illegal or non-conforming schools fall into line, Rabkin said, the Hassidim will have two clear choices: comply or move.

“There is nothing in the belief system prevents you from studying mathematics and physics, but there is a value system that states that any time spent on activities other than the study of Torah is essentially a waste of time.â€

There is, of course, a danger of driving the Hassidic education system underground, driving families out of the province, or being accused of unfairly singling out Jews for punishment.

But Lowen sees only benefit, the chance that the heavy hand of the government could improve the lot of many orthodox Jews that he says secretly wish for a better education and better livelihoods for their families.

“In fact, I know that it has done good already, he said, referring to his case. “I have information about some schools here in Montreal that now give secular education, much more than they used to give.â€

[BrownieMomma]

Did he not realize his job prospects were that poor BEFORE bringing four children into the world??

Sometimes I really don't understand people, or understand them too well unfortunately.

Poor people should be able to have children. So I guess I can see one, maybe two, but to have four kids knowing that you are underemployed and can't care for them... now he's casting blame around and suing because he can't take care of his kids.

[anjulibai]

Did he not realize his job prospects were that poor BEFORE bringing four children into the world??

Sometimes I really don't understand people, or understand them too well unfortunately.

Poor people should be able to have children. So I guess I can see one, maybe two, but to have four kids knowing that you are underemployed and can't care for them... now he's casting blame around and suing because he can't take care of his kids.

He may have married at 20 when he was still studying and had his children before he left the community. Then he may have had more financial support because he was actively involved in the community. He may not have forseen, at 20, that he would be unable to support a family later in life, depending on what his family was telling him was his duty as a Jewish man. All of his kids could be in their teens at this point.

As an aside, I wish fundies, of all flavors, would get it through their heads that their children have rights separate from their parents, that the government has a duty to protect. These rights include a good education that will prepare them to be functioning adults in the outside world.

I think fundies are actively violating their children's rights when they limit their children's education.

[nelliebelle1197]

Did he not realize his job prospects were that poor BEFORE bringing four children into the world??

Sometimes I really don't understand people, or understand them too well unfortunately.

Poor people should be able to have children. So I guess I can see one, maybe two, but to have four kids knowing that you are underemployed and can't care for them... now he's casting blame around and suing because he can't take care of his kids.

I am really pleased to know you think poor people should breed. I am sure they are thrilled, too. And you came up with numbers, too! Good for you. Um, actually, the larger point is that the school system in Quebec is ignoring the education of a huge segment of its children by trying to accommodate a group's religious beliefs to the detriment of its children. It is civil rights issue.

Geez, you have now run the gamut, BM - racism, classism, homophobia. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Did he not realize his job prospects were that poor BEFORE bringing four children into the world??

He probably had the kids (or at least started on it) while he was still active in his community, in which case four kids is quite on the low side and he was probably encouraged to have many many more than that.

If he were still active in the community, probably he could find some sort of living in the religious sphere or else live on assistance but with help from others still in. Lots of people make a bare bones living teaching religious subjects in the same sort of schools they went to, and getting charity on the side.

Once he left, though, that's it - no help from the community for him, and no way he's prepared for a normal secular life and job.

For what it's worth, this story has been featured in quite a few places, and on plenty of religious places people are basically hating on this guy and scorning his decision to sue, saying that if he wanted to sue anyone it should be his parents, AND they're complaining that already there's too much pressure and interference with the religious schools.

Elsewhere you can find people acknowledging that their (expensive, and private) schools have no secular education or deplorable levels of it but they wouldn't think of sending their kids elsewhere (heaven forbid to public schools) because it's just "not done" anymore. So people are spending astronomical amounts of money to send their kids to schools where there's no secular education at all past the age of 13, and not a whole lot more in the earlier grades either.

For some of the people in the latter group, I suspect that they would be secretly grateful if there were a bit more oversight of the required levels of secular subjects forced to be taught in school, something imposed from the outside without the parents having to be "outliers" or "bums" or unfaithful by suggesting that anything be changed.

Aside from this there are physical issues with plenty of those super-religious schools too, there are schools set up illegally in what are supposed to be private homes, without heeding local fire codes and zoning laws. Every so often one of these makes the news and predictably there are people who come out complaining that this is "oppression of religion" and whatever else.

[BrownieMomma]

This information that he left the community must come from a different source? I read the post twice and didn't see that part.

Has it been a recent leave? Like, he's having some kind of culture shock adjusting to life outside an insular community?

He's 37. There's a lot of good discussion in the college thread about thinking and learning. Learning new things is not limited to a formal school experience.

I could see where, if he's having difficulties due to lack of education, he would become a devoted advocate for change. I still don't see his moral imperative to sue his elem/secondary school system when he is 37. I could understand it more if he was in his 20's.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

He's not suing his school. He's suing the government for failing to enforce their own existing laws, which lets these substandard schools continue to get away without teaching kids basic survival knowledge.

Similar complaints are starting to happen in the UK too for similar reasons - authorities which are supposed to ensure a basic standard on schools (which in the UK are receiving state money) are looking the other way and letting religious schools which don't come close to covering the basics continue to operate.

[Mama Mia]

Everything from this guys particular situation aside -- I find it so bizarre that no one ever seems to address the issue that private religious schools are publically funded in so many countries!

That would cause just huge outrage in the U.S. -- the closest we come, as far as I know, is some debate over allowing " school vouchers" which would partially pay for the individuals costs of attending a private school of the parents choice. As far as I know, I don't think there are any states that actually have those.

How is it decided what sorts of religious schools to offer?

[Rebelwife]

Everything from this guys particular situation aside -- I find it so bizarre that no one ever seems to address the issue that private religious schools are publically funded in so many countries!

That would cause just huge outrage in the U.S. -- the closest we come, as far as I know, is some debate over allowing " school vouchers" which would partially pay for the individuals costs of attending a private school of the parents choice. As far as I know, I don't think there are any states that actually have those.

How is it decided what sorts of religious schools to offer?

Florida has them. (Of course they do.... :roll: ) Here's a link about "McKay Scholarships" named after a completely useless former Lieutenant Governor, appropriately enough. https://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/McKay/

They also have another work around, the Florida Tax Credit Scholarship program, which allows corporations to set up private school scholarships in lieu of paying state taxes. No, that isn't publicly funding private schools - not at all! :naughty:

Can you tell I'm not a fan?

[FloraKitty35]

Florida has them. (Of course they do.... :roll: ) Here's a link about "McKay Scholarships" named after a completely useless former Lieutenant Governor, appropriately enough. https://www.floridaschoolchoice.org/Information/McKay/

They also have another work around, the Florida Tax Credit Scholarship program, which allows corporations to set up private school scholarships in lieu of paying state taxes. No, that isn't publicly funding private schools - not at all! :naughty:

Can you tell I'm not a fan?

My aunt told me about Florida's program (her daughter works as a teacher for the Pasco County school system. Here in Delaware, Governor Markell (who is a Democrat) is a big booster of charter schools and teacher accountability. He supports the plan put forth by the Caesar Rodney Institute (which is a right wing think tank that the Koch brothers fund) which long story short is a way to defund (or grossly underfund) Delaware's public school system and to destroy the DSEA (Delaware State Educators Association).

[nelliebelle1197]

Everything from this guys particular situation aside -- I find it so bizarre that no one ever seems to address the issue that private religious schools are publically funded in so many countries!

That would cause just huge outrage in the U.S. -- the closest we come, as far as I know, is some debate over allowing " school vouchers" which would partially pay for the individuals costs of attending a private school of the parents choice. As far as I know, I don't think there are any states that actually have those.

How is it decided what sorts of religious schools to offer?

My husband is from New Zealand and they fund private, religious schools. Basically, the school has to agree to teach the standard curriculum and conform to all standards of public schools- so no creationism, hate speech, etc, and the instructional standards have to meet or exceed. All of my nieces and nephews are in Catholic schools that receive funding. My younger nephew won first place nationally last year in some sort of maths competition. I can't say for sure, but I do not see a corporate schools even exist down there- I think this applies to nonprofit style institutions only. Kiwis on here can explain better.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Everything from this guys particular situation aside -- I find it so bizarre that no one ever seems to address the issue that private religious schools are publically funded in so many countries!

That would cause just huge outrage in the U.S. -- the closest we come, as far as I know, is some debate over allowing " school vouchers" which would partially pay for the individuals costs of attending a private school of the parents choice. As far as I know, I don't think there are any states that actually have those.

How is it decided what sorts of religious schools to offer?

Quebec is not the United States.

Historically, there were ONLY religious schools. Canada was founded by two main European groups - English Protestants and French Catholics. The Constitution guaranteed each group the right to its own schools. In places like Montreal, you ended up with 4 types of schools - English Protestant, English Catholic, French Protestant and French Catholic. My parents and grandparents ended up going to "Protestant" schools that were 99% Jewish, learning to sing hymns to Jesus and read the New Testament. It took a Constitutional amendment to change that system, which didn't occur until 1998. Public funding for the secular portion of Jewish day schools in Quebec was established long before.

The education of Jewish children has been part of the public policy agenda in Canada for decades, particularly in Quebec. Under the British North America Act of 1867, only Catholics and Protestants were granted the right to operate public schools. In Quebec the place of Jewish children, teachers, and parents in the Protestant or Catholic school system has been a matter of heated debate. As the Jewish population of Montreal grew in the early twentieth century, the proportion of Jewish children in the Protestant (English-language) system increased. Eventually an act of the Quebec legislature in 1903 established their access to such schools in law. Yet Jews were still not permitted to teach or be active on Protestant school boards, even though they paid taxes. The established uptown Jews argued in favour of equality within the Protestant school system. But among the immigrant community, a preferred option was the creation of an independent Jewish school board to run its own institutions. Such an approach would not only enhance cultural survival but also eliminate the practice of the day in which Jewish children in public schools were forced to participate in Christian ritual and prayer. Compromise solutions began to evolve in 1930s, despite opposition from nationalist forces in the province. Eventually, Jewish parents and teachers were admitted into Protestant schools and boards, and the religious character of those schools declined.

In 1970 private Jewish day schools in Quebec received recognition as associated schools in the public interest. They were thus entitled to receive government grants for the secular portion of their school funding, as is the case with institutions serving other religious and ethnic minorities in the province. These grants have continued as long as the schools met minimal government requirements regarding the hours of French instruction. All Canadian provinces today, with the exception of Ontario (as of the mid-1990s), provide funding in some way to private Jewish schools to cover the portion of costs related to the Judaic curriculum. This issue highlights an important difference between Canadian and American Jews, and indeed between the two societies. American Jews, at least as represented by official organizations, are fierce supporters of the separation of church and state. They regularly oppose any curricular or extracurricular intrusion of religious symbols, such as crosses, nativity scenes, or Hanukkah lights in the public schools. They also oppose public funding of private religious education, seeing Jewish schools as potentially ghettoizing, a fear of separateness that was echoed by some uptown Jews in Montreal during the debates in the early twentieth century

.

from here: http://www.multiculturalcanada.ca/Encyclopedia/A-Z/j3/8

66% of Jewish students in Montreal attend Jewish day schools. The mainstream schools offer good secular studies. The problem in some of the ultra-conservative Hasidic schools - some receive funding, some are basically underground. If the Quebec government was failing to enforce its own education laws, and knew or ought to have known that kids were not being given an adequate education to its own standards, that's a problem. Legally, the question would be if a citizen can sue the government for failing to enforce a law.

[Mama Mia]

Quebec is not the United States.

Historically, there were ONLY religious schools. Canada was founded by two main European groups - English Protestants and French Catholics. The Constitution guaranteed each group the right to its own schools. In places like Montreal, you ended up with 4 types of schools - English Protestant, English Catholic, French Protestant and French Catholic. My parents and grandparents ended up going to "Protestant" schools that were 99% Jewish, learning to sing hymns to Jesus and read the New Testament. It took a Constitutional amendment to change that system, which didn't occur until 1998. Public funding for the secular portion of Jewish day schools in Quebec was established long before.

Yes, I get that Quebec is not the United States. That's why I asked the question.

And I am curious, if all public schools are affiliated with one religious group or another -- what about the families who are of a different religious group, or not religious at all? Do they have public schools for Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists, or any completely secular schools? Or do parents just pick whichever of the available choices they feel is least objectionable?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Prior to 1998, Quebec didn't have any purely secular public schools. Most religious minorities chose the Protestant school system, which still had a small amount of religious education.

[Mama Mia]

Prior to 1998, Quebec didn't have any purely secular public schools. Most religious minorities chose the Protestant school system, which still had a small amount of religious education.

Thank you for the information. I'm wondering, and this is a question for any posters from other areas with publicly funded religiously affiliated schools -- if an area has a large population of some religious minority, could they apply to receive funding to open a school, or is it limited to whatever religious groups are already represented?

[2xx1xy1JD]

Thank you for the information. I'm wondering, and this is a question for any posters from other areas with publicly funded religiously affiliated schools -- if an area has a large population of some religious minority, could they apply to receive funding to open a school, or is it limited to whatever religious groups are already represented?

Depends where you are. Some Canadian provinces do fund other religious groups.

My province (Ontario) is currently the only one that funds one religious system (Catholic schools), but no others. Most people agree that this is blatant discrimination, but there is no political will to change the status quo.

[Mama Mia]

Depends where you are. Some Canadian provinces do fund other religious groups.

My province (Ontario) is currently the only one that funds one religious system (Catholic schools), but no others. Most people agree that this is blatant discrimination, but there is no political will to change the status quo.

Yeah, that really seems unfair. It would seem, to me, that if the government were going to help fund a religiously affiliated school that it should fund a variety of them, as long as they met the secular standards and there was sufficient population in the area who wanted it.

[tropaka]

Yeah, that really seems unfair. It would seem, to me, that if the government were going to help fund a religiously affiliated school that it should fund a variety of them, as long as they met the secular standards and there was sufficient population in the area who wanted it.

Public funding for Roman Catholic education is a constitutional matter Sec 93 of 1982 Constitutional Act that has its basis in the founding two countries, but many people do believe it should be changed.

[Vivi_music]

Depends where you are. Some Canadian provinces do fund other religious groups.

My province (Ontario) is currently the only one that funds one religious system (Catholic schools), but no others. Most people agree that this is blatant discrimination, but there is no political will to change the status quo.

I think the reasons why no one wants to touch the Catholic founding is because most private Catholic schools are important for Franco-Ontarian people. A lot of Anglophones in Quebec were very scared of the secularization of schools in the 1998 for the same reasons. Considering the 101 law, they feared to loose the right to have their own school. The government made sure to create secular Anglo school boards and in the end, it worked fine. I think the same could be done in Ontario, or at least find a way to reassure the Franco community.

To go back to the initial topic, I'm actually quite glad this man is doing this. I think the Quebec Liberals should be challenged more about this. Considering the last political campaign, the Liberals got elected on the promise that they would not impose the PQ Charter of Values. Instead, their campaign focused more on fighting extremist groups. And since they got elected, they didn't do much on the issue. Considering the law, religious school that get government founding should follow the curriculum. And these schools do not. After the Lev Tahor scandal, the government can't be lax on that issue. In this special case, the man complains about Jewish Schools but some Baptist schools are also under the radar because they don't follow the curriculum and are considered to promote sectarian ideologies.