In which CM doesn't know the difference between Calgary and

[FJismyheadship]

Why is page 4 messed up? Did someone alert a mod? That was weird, I thought FJ was messed up, and I just kinda scanned it because it was all weird looking.

[Tiger Lily]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Just to mess with him ...

:nenner: :cracking-up: :nenner: :cracking-up:

It's good to hear that he has so many concerned blog readers. I wonder why they don't just publicly comment on his blog?

Or are they scared of the big bad feminist jingerites, too?

Sigh, here we go again. Robert, you apparently are unable or unwilling to recognize that those of us who keep "emailing" you (ahem, sure, because you couldn't possibly be reading here, right?) are hating on you because of "Truth." I (and I think most of us here) don't care what you believe. It's what you say that we dislike. It's that you're not honest. It's that you openly disrespect your wife. It's that you're not humble. It's that you believe you're never wrong. I especially dislike all of this because you say you're a Christian and the hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.

I can tell you right now that if my husband and I had had problems in the past to the point where it had actually been 80% my fault and after I'd apologized and we'd moved on, there's no way he'd tell anybody that our problems had been 80% my fault. Even if it were true. Even if I agreed. He just wouldn't do it. He's too loyal to me as I am to him. We'd never shame each other publicly or privately. He's a humble and very confident man who doesn't need to boast or brag and who doesn't feel the need to constantly draw attention to himself.

So let's get one thing straight: I don't care what you believe. I am not jealous of your "Truth." I care about how you represent yourself as a Christian. I care about how you treat your wife. And I can't sit back and NOT call someone out when they're being a raging hypocrite. Hope this makes things clear and that there will be no more confusion. There shouldn't be, anyway, because I KNOW you're reading this.

[Firiel]

Shelley is using reason in the comments:

Lori, Amanda (thanks for your replies) and Robert: I didn’t intend to be offensive so I hope I wasn’t. I’m going to try to clarify further because from your replies micron think I got what I meant across.

See, Lori, you blog about how awful you used to be as a wife and how great things are now. Sometimes you seem really down on yourself, very sad about the way you used to act. I guess what surprises me is that Ken just AGREES without much comment on anything to do with his own behavior other than a vague “of course I wasn’t perfectâ€. I kind of see the same concept between Robert and Amanda. I guess it would just be my hope that if it were me and I had humbled myself and changed so much for the better, and shared my story with other women, my husband would pipe up and say something along the lines of “Babe, don’t be so hard on yourself, things are great now. And you weren’t the only one at fault in the past, I screwed up a lot too.†Instead of what basically sounds like “Yep folks, she’s a peach now and I sure love her but she used to be a real terror. A lesser man might have left.â€

You know? I guess I’d just be hurt if my husband just flat out agreed that I was a monster without giving much understanding that perhaps some of his behavior majority influenced mine sometimes.

I think being honest with yourself is great but we can often be harder on ourselves than we deserve and then for the person you love most of all to back that opinion up… ouch. Very painful. Clearly this system works fine for everyone mentioned here though and you’re all very happy so I’m obviously making this personal when it doesn’t even apply to me, sorry.

CM replies, basically telling her she's wrong-- it WAS all Amanda's fault:

Please understand, I’m no Jesus…not by a long shot, I’ve laid my sin out on a pretty regular basis for all to read, so don’t think I am making that claim please. But even the perfect Husband has a bride that can turn her back on Him and sin against Him in horrible ways- why not with a normal husband?

Shelley, you know how much I like you and care for you…but I’m afraid your thinking is influenced by a modern feminist mindset. Of course their are marriages where husband and wife are close to equal fault and feeding off the circle of harm they are doing to each other. But there are many marriages where husbands are for the most part the destructive force in the marriage and there are marriages where the wife is the majority of the destructive force in the marriage.

Translation: "I'm not saying I'm Jesus, buuut.... I'm Jesus."

[jerkit]

I don't know why lori and ken aren't railing on CM for "nailing the new man to the cross" like Ken has been preaching on the last three weeks. CM and Amanda's habit of constantly harping on her sin are completely contrary to kens diatribes.

[jerkit]

And also, I agree with Tiger Lily. In my marriage, if one of us does something wrong and then sincerely apologizes, it's not brought up again. We don't throw old "sins" back in each other's faces. It's over, it's in the past, we're moving on.

[Tiger Lily]

I don't know why lori and ken aren't railing on CM for "nailing the new man to the cross" like Ken has been preaching on the last three weeks. CM and Amanda's habit of constantly harping on her sin are completely contrary to kens diatribes.

I'd never considered that before, but you're absolutely right. Then again, Robert is so strong and manly that surely, he can bend the rules where he is concerned. Just as long as the wife looks bad while he comes off smelling like a rose, then it's all good. Is that how it works, Robert?

[Firiel]

And also, I agree with Tiger Lily. In my marriage, if one of us does something wrong and then sincerely apologizes, it's not brought up again. We don't throw old "sins" back in each other's faces. It's over, it's in the past, we're moving on.

Well, look at you and Mr. Jerkit with your fleshly tools of communication, grace, and forgiveness.

Dontcha know that it's not a godly marriage unless you two hate each others' guts but grit your teeth and have mutually ungratifying sex every other day?

[jerkit]

Well, look at you and Mr. Jerkit with your fleshly tools of communication, grace, and forgiveness.

Dontcha know that it's not a godly marriage unless you two hate each others' guts but grit your teeth and have mutually ungratifying sex every other day?

Funny you mention ungratifying sex. We were talking last night about the idea in evangelical culture that women just suffer through sex and that it's only pleasurable for men. We *ahem* had fellowship one with another and he highfived me afterwards and said "you suffered real good"

[Firiel]

Funny you mention ungratifying sex. We were talking last night about the idea in evangelical culture that women just suffer through sex and that it's only pleasurable for men. We *ahem* had fellowship one with another and he highfived me afterwards and said "you suffered real good"

:lol:

[Tiger Lily]

And while I'm thinking about it, I'll just quickly add that the title of Robert's latest post, "Whose Blog Is This?" is a perfection example of his narcissism, arrogance and sense of entitlement. It was an attempt to reprimand and intimidate. I found it very offensive. In essence, he's basically challenging our right to question him in any way. Dude, you're the one blogging. You're the one exposing your marriage and the sins of your wife. You're the one giving enough hints as to who you are and where you live that a blind man could easily find you. Your readers have every right to challenge, question and give opinions. Get over yourself!

Edited to clarify.

[usmcmom]

The whole exchange with Shelley, who seems very sincere and eager to see Robert's viewpoint, just makes me angry. I honestly thought Robert was going to write a post in which he described the mistakes he made in his marriage. Maybe he'd touch on some of the things he could have done differently in "disciplining" his wife. Maybe he'd confess that his porn use is wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter how much he's tried to justify it. I thought we were going to see Robert humble himself a little and be...I don't know...Christ like.

But no. He accused Shelly of being brainwashed by the feminists. After all, if we believe a man is fallible, we must be evil feminists. When Shelly mentioned that sometimes we are harder on ourselves than we need to be, Amanda and Robert both pushed back at her; yet they seem to believe that their rule doesn't apply to Robert. Since Robert's blog is apparently aimed at men (although he doesn't have much of an audience - men or women) it would have been a perfect time for him to encourage his male readers to take a look at themselves in very specific terms and address the sin in their lives that could be derailing their marriage.

These fundie men have it made. Their sins can never be brought to light because their submissive wives simply can't confront them. Their wives' sins, however, are constantly brought center stage with a hot light shined on them. This way the world can see just how wonderful men like Ken and Robert are for putting up with such rebellious wives. Not only are they wonderful for staying with them, but they get extra God points for curing them of their rebellion. And they get to say...I have no real sin. See? My wife can't even think of any.

I'll chime in with the others and say how fortunate I feel that my husband and I eagerly move past each other's mistakes, especially when a sincere apology has occurred. But then, my husband doesn't have a "ministry" to maintain that counts on his constant bragging about taming a rebellious wife.

[usmcmom]

OH! I almost forgot. I was talking to my sister yesterday. Some of you might remember that she's, I guess, Fundie Light. Anyway, something was said that made me think of Robert so I said "Heh. That makes me think of this blog I read. The writer used to go by 'Cabinet Man.' And she said "Oh. I used to read him." Seems she read his blog before he "moved to Alaska," but quit because of his language and the way he responded to his commenters. She said he always seemed mad at his commenters and was defensive right off the bat with his responses. He'd sometimes go back and apologize but only after the reader clarified his/her comment.

It's a shame :D . He would have had a fairly loyal reader in my sister. I wonder how many other original readers just haven't bothered to go back.

[jerkit]

OH! I almost forgot. I was talking to my sister yesterday. Some of you might remember that she's, I guess, Fundie Light. Anyway, something was said that made me think of Robert so I said "Heh. That makes me think of this blog I read. The writer used to go by 'Cabinet Man.' And she said "Oh. I used to read him." Seems she read his blog before he "moved to Alaska," but quit because of his language and the way he responded to his commenters. She said he always seemed mad at his commenters and was defensive right off the bat with his responses. He'd sometimes go back and apologize but only after the reader clarified his/her comment.

It's a shame :D . He would have had a fairly loyal reader in my sister. I wonder how many other original readers just haven't bothered to go back.

Did you reveal that you are also a reader but of a different variety? Does she read lori?

[Tiger Lily]

The whole exchange with Shelley, who seems very sincere and eager to see Robert's viewpoint, just makes me angry. I honestly thought Robert was going to write a post in which he described the mistakes he made in his marriage. Maybe he'd touch on some of the things he could have done differently in "disciplining" his wife. Maybe he'd confess that his porn use is wrong, wrong, wrong, no matter how much he's tried to justify it. I thought we were going to see Robert humble himself a little and be...I don't know...Christ like.

But no. He accused Shelly of being brainwashed by the feminists. After all, if we believe a man is fallible, we must be evil feminists. When Shelly mentioned that sometimes we are harder on ourselves than we need to be, Amanda and Robert both pushed back at her; yet they seem to believe that their rule doesn't apply to Robert. Since Robert's blog is apparently aimed at men (although he doesn't have much of an audience - men or women) it would have been a perfect time for him to encourage his male readers to take a look at themselves in very specific terms and address the sin in their lives that could be derailing their marriage.

These fundie men have it made. Their sins can never be brought to light because their submissive wives simply can't confront them. Their wives' sins, however, are constantly brought center stage with a hot light shined on them. This way the world can see just how wonderful men like Ken and Robert are for putting up with such rebellious wives. Not only are they wonderful for staying with them, but they get extra God points for curing them of their rebellion. And they get to say...I have no real sin. See? My wife can't even think of any.

I'll chime in with the others and say how fortunate I feel that my husband and I eagerly move past each other's mistakes, especially when a sincere apology has occurred. But then, my husband doesn't have a "ministry" to maintain that counts on his constant bragging about taming a rebellious wife.

What gets to me is that it doesn't occur to him that he played a part in their unhappiness. No marriage fails by the actions of one partner. Each person feeds off the other. It's entirely a team effort. True, one partner may commit horrible crimes against the other, but until it gets to that point, they're always, always feeding off the other.

Robert is simply not humble. He has way too much pride for that so he can't see it the way others can. I also find it sad that Amanda has learned to accept all blame for what transpired in that marriage. Oh, she'll admit to it, all right, however, I'm wondering WHY she admits to it so easily. Years of conditioning?

[usmcmom]

Did you reveal that you are also a reader but of a different variety? Does she read lori?

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I would have but none of that actually happened. :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm trying to see if I can get Robert to address this in a post. So far, he's posted on two different things that have been discussed here. I'm just baiting him.

[Firiel]

Yeah, about blame not being solely on one party... I know I mention my ex in a lot of posts. And he really was an ass. He was an ass and a liar and a cheater and a bunch of not-good things.

But I've definitely learned from the mistakes I made in that relationship and have taken those lessons into this next one. I have a lot of anxiety and depression, and especially during the first years of our relationship, I expected him to soothe me when I was feeling crappy. I've gotten a lot better at self-soothing and not catatrophizing, and that's helped a lot in removing pressure from my boyfriend because it's not always easy to be with someone with overwhelming anxiety/depression. I also let the ex dictate reality which was really bad for me, and ultimately for us. I'm not saying I could have changed him, but the relationship would probably never have made it to the marriage stage if I hadn't let him define my reality. So with my boyfriend, I've stood a little stronger on my points and pushed my opinions a little harder. It helps that he's more open to criticism, of course! Anyway, despite being very anti-Lori advice, it has helped a lot because I don't have to "stuff" the things I feel and let it fester into resentment... which would often reveal itself as-- surprise!-- more anxiety and depression in the past.

So, despite the fact that I didn't deserve the way my ex treated me, I realize that I also made mistakes (like anyone does!) and have tried to rectify those mistakes for the future.

Oh, narcissists are generally very bad at taking criticism because they see any sort of minor criticism as an attack on the false self they have built up and need to believe in.

[Tiger Lily]

OH! I almost forgot. I was talking to my sister yesterday. Some of you might remember that she's, I guess, Fundie Light. Anyway, something was said that made me think of Robert so I said "Heh. That makes me think of this blog I read. The writer used to go by 'Cabinet Man.' And she said "Oh. I used to read him." Seems she read his blog before he "moved to Alaska," but quit because of his language and the way he responded to his commenters. She said he always seemed mad at his commenters and was defensive right off the bat with his responses. He'd sometimes go back and apologize but only after the reader clarified his/her comment.

It's a shame :D . He would have had a fairly loyal reader in my sister. I wonder how many other original readers just haven't bothered to go back.

Pride commeth before a fall and all that. CM might be his own worst enemy online AND probably in real life as well. I recall the first time I visited his blog and was appalled by his arrogance, language (for a Christian) and how defensive he was to his readers. I followed him from another blog where he'd guest posted (although I hadn't read it because it was deleted due to the uproar it caused) and couldn't believe she'd given him space on her blog in the first place.

[Firiel]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I would have but none of that actually happened. :lol: :lol: :lol: I'm trying to see if I can get Robert to address this in a post. So far, he's posted on two different things that have been discussed here. I'm just baiting him.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

:lol:

I was going to comment on how absolutely crazy that was that two people in a family would independently read a blog of such small readership!

[church_of_dog]

Yeah, about blame not being solely on one party... I know I mention my ex in a lot of posts. And he really was an ass. He was an ass and a liar and a cheater and a bunch of not-good things.

But I've definitely learned from the mistakes I made in that relationship and have taken those lessons into this next one. I have a lot of anxiety and depression, and especially during the first years of our relationship, I expected him to soothe me when I was feeling crappy. I've gotten a lot better at self-soothing and not catatrophizing, and that's helped a lot in removing pressure from my boyfriend because it's not always easy to be with someone with overwhelming anxiety/depression. I also let the ex dictate reality which was really bad for me, and ultimately for us. I'm not saying I could have changed him, but the relationship would probably never have made it to the marriage stage if I hadn't let him define my reality. So with my boyfriend, I've stood a little stronger on my points and pushed my opinions a little harder. It helps that he's more open to criticism, of course! Anyway, despite being very anti-Lori advice, it has helped a lot because I don't have to "stuff" the things I feel and let it fester into resentment... which would often reveal itself as-- surprise!-- more anxiety and depression in the past.

So, despite the fact that I didn't deserve the way my ex treated me, I realize that I also made mistakes (like anyone does!) and have tried to rectify those mistakes for the future.

Oh, narcissists are generally very bad at taking criticism because they see any sort of minor criticism as an attack on the false self they have built up and need to believe in.

A few years ago I dated a guy who had severe anxiety. It was a bit unnerving to me, primarily because it was so unfamiliar to me, and I didn't have any marker or reference against which to assess it or him. But I didn't and wouldn't reject an otherwise-agreeable person just because of a medical condition.

However, there was a bit of a catch-22: my friend wouldn't or couldn't talk to me about his condition. The catch-22 is that I recognized that perhaps the inability to talk about it was part of the anxiety itself -- he did indicate many times that he "wanted to be able to tell me everything" but that only confused me -- "ok, you want to, so why don't you?"

I tried to be very patient with him, but there were also bits and pieces of his story that didn't make sense to me, and some specific red flags that I found very worrisome. I waited for him to reveal enough of himself to explain away the red flags, but he never did. Of course another part of the catch-22 was that my asking him questions only aggravated his anxiety.

In addition to this there were simply areas where we didn't have much in common or where I just didn't find his approach to life to be appealing. Again I hesitated in deciding I wasn't interested, thinking that perhaps even those things were connected to his anxiety, and that once I could see the true person underneath the anxiety I might find we were a good match after all.

But eventually I had to speak up, that it just wasn't working for me. We dated for four months, and at the end of that time I didn't feel like I knew him at all (while he was declaring that we knew each other SO COMPLETELY, which I found to be yet another creepy vibe...). Once I broke up with him, his reaction was so hostile that I immediately felt like I'd escaped.

But even now I wonder how much of what I saw was the anxiety driving him, rather than his personality. I still wonder if I turned away from a really good guy. But without the ability on his part to communicate about his situation, I had no way to assess the multitude of things that raised red flags to me or gave me a creepy vibe (including a legal history of some kind of violence that seems to have been domestic in nature -- I didn't learn about that until after I left, although I knew/suspected something of the sort earlier).

All of this is to say, Firiel, how great I think it is that you can communicate about how you're feeling, and express to your boyfriend what you need and what your boundaries are. If my friend had been able to do that with me, we might have been able to stick together (maybe or maybe not, depending on the answers to all those mysteries I was never able to understand).

[crazyforkate]

Hey, to be fair, I always made the same mistake as a kid. And it makes sense in a way - if Jesus is going to die in any Canadian city, it's going to be the one with apocalyptic weather and appalling drivers.

[church_of_dog]

Hey, to be fair, I always made the same mistake as a kid. And it makes sense in a way - if Jesus is going to die in any Canadian city, it's going to be the one with apocalyptic weather and appalling drivers.

I guess I'm more dyslexic -- I always got Calvary and Cavalry mixed up -- no Calgary needed! :lol:

[Firiel]

Hey, to be fair, I always made the same mistake as a kid. And it makes sense in a way - if Jesus is going to die in any Canadian city, it's going to be the one with apocalyptic weather and appalling drivers.

I still pause every time I need to say "Alcatraz" to specifically remind myself not to say "Azkaban."

[AuntCloud]

Calgary plus two broken feet can only mean... ...the Hurtin' Albertans! http://corblund.com

:lol: :lol:

Seriously, I wouldn't want to link Corb Lund with Cupboard Lunatic, but the phrasing was just too perfect...

I would give you a bazillion likes, if I could.

Here's hoping "Family Reunion (she's gonna be a good one)" will be played at a Maxwell wedding...

As for our Redeemer, I was downtown yesterday and I think I've seen him walking on the LRT platform on the corner of 6th street, muttering to himself and lugging an old wagon.

[lawfulevil]

As for the stated range of "stuff that's Amanda's fault" being between 80% (when Cabinetman is trying to mollify his female readership) and 100% (when he's being honest about how he treats her in their day-to-day lives), I'd like to once again refer to St. Lundy of Bancroft:

Many women over the years have said to me, “My partner tells me that I’m the one abusing him. He has said it so many times that I start to wonder if he’s right. How do I know if it’s him or me?â€

We can look at some ways to answer that question, but first I would like you to read a few concepts, taking a deep breath after each one so that you can absorb it.

One: You are not responsible for his behavior. You do not make him do things. His actions are his own choice.

Breathe.

Two: You deserve to be treated well even when you make mistakes, and even if you make them a lot.

Breathe.

Three: Setting firm, clear limits for how your partner is allowed to treat you is not the same thing as controlling him, and should not be called control.

Breathe.

Four: Choosing to not always put your partner’s needs ahead of your own does not constitute hurting him, wronging him, or being selfish. You have the right to give substantial priority to your own needs and desires.

Breathe.

Five: If you scream and yell once in a while that does not mean that you are crazy or abusive (though he may say so). It depends on whether you are yelling degrading things, whether your partner is intimidated by you, whether you are yelling to control him (versus yelling to resist his control), and many other factors.

Breathe.

Anything in there look familiar, guys?

[lawfulevil]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

His latest post makes me laugh. He thinks it makes him look like Such A Good Guy. You guys, he's not like REAL abusers. REAL abusers NEVER let their property have two, maybe even THREE whole hours of downtime by deigning to watch THEIR OWN CHILDREN.

A mocha in town... sure. I guess that's real downtime. But did she just have a mocha and chat with friends, or since she was in town anyway, did she spend the whole time driving to town, in line for coffee, then driving around to various errands? I mean, sure, not having to take two kids along makes grocery shopping more peaceful, but it's not what I'd call downtime.

And I notice he never mentions what Amanda was doing while he self-sacrificially semi-watched his own offspring. Was she actually taking a nap or scrapbooking or something she enjoys? Or was she just performing her 'duties' without also being bugged constantly by a hyperactive little boy Robert has no interest in disciplining? (I'm referring back to him stating that expecting male children to behave themselves is "emasculating" them.)

Because in my personal experience with this kind of asshole, they consider any time you have where you're not at 110 stress% and drowning in work to be "downtime". My ex was convinced that waiting around in the hot, cramped apartment laundry room (because if you left, someone would steal all your clothes) was an enjoyable break in my week just because I got to read a book for a few minutes, when I wasn't moving the wash, ironing everything (he insisted, EVERYTHING), folding, and hanging. And what was he doing? Sitting on the couch in his underwear watching Deadliest Catch, mostly.