When are fundie kids responsible for their beliefs?

[lemonhead]

I think, as others have noted, that there is so much trauma and abuse of many different kinds wrapped up in the fundie upbringing, that it's difficult to tease out which current behaviors/thought patterns can be tied back to fundamentalism specifically. The physical, emotional, and sexual abuse I and many others here experienced growing up would have horrific affects on anyone, and are only magnified by the spiritual abuse. There is definitely a particularly heinous kind of soul murder that happens when you abuse a child in the name of god. It colors my life everyday, in so many different ways--from fear of my children misbehaving in public or even around family, to my tendency to freeze or run away from confrontations, to my automatic thoughts of self-harm when I feel I've done something wrong or "bad." My biggest trigger is anything that makes me feel shame about myself. I have a deep-seated sense of self-loathing that has been resistant to modification even after many years of therapy. I will never like myself, much less love myself. Worse, I fear that my children will see that in me, and come to hate themselves as well.

[polecat]

I think, as others have noted, that there is so much trauma and abuse of many different kinds wrapped up in the fundie upbringing, that it's difficult to tease out which current behaviors/thought patterns can be tied back to fundamentalism specifically. The physical, emotional, and sexual abuse I and many others here experienced growing up would have horrific affects on anyone, and are only magnified by the spiritual abuse. There is definitely a particularly heinous kind of soul murder that happens when you abuse a child in the name of god. It colors my life everyday, in so many different ways--from fear of my children misbehaving in public or even around family, to my tendency to freeze or run away from confrontations, to my automatic thoughts of self-harm when I feel I've done something wrong or "bad." My biggest trigger is anything that makes me feel shame about myself. I have a deep-seated sense of self-loathing that has been resistant to modification even after many years of therapy. I will never like myself, much less love myself. Worse, I fear that my children will see that in me, and come to hate themselves as well.

Seconding all of this. And huge, huge hugs for you, Lemonhead.

[lemonhead]

Seconding all of this. And huge, huge hugs for you, Lemonhead.

Thank you, Polecat. I appreciate that, and I appreciate everyone's candor in this thread. It's hard to write about, and hard to think about, but underneath all the snark-worthy frumper loving prairie muffin blogs, there's a lot of hurt happening to a lot of vulnerable, sensitive kids. I hope any kids who are growing up in that kind of environment these days are able to find an escape someday if they want to. In spite of the ongoing aftermath, I count myself lucky for getting away. In a way, I can really identify with Winston Smith in 1984: I would rather have had my face eaten off by rats than stay in the oppressive, soul-smothering fundamentalist dystopia of my childhood.

[Toothfairy]

So I'm wondering how do fundie children escape? Especially women. If they find out about the real world and realize their parents lied to them their whole lives, is there any resentment

[polecat]

So I'm wondering how do fundie children escape? Especially women. If they find out about the real world and realize their parents lied to them their whole lives, is there any resentment

My parents made two critical mistakes that gave me a way out:

1. They let me go to college. (It was a fundy university, but it still got me out from under their thumbs).

2. They let me have a job.

To successfully get out (in my experience and observations), one has got to have either a way to earn money OR supportive friends/family outside the cult (yeah, I consider it a cult) who can offer them a couch. They also have to be prepared for their family of origin to completely turn their backs on them. My parents nearly became unhinged, and there was a LOT of drama involved before my dad finally disinherited and disowned me.

I've often thought that there should be some kind of group that helps these kids get out safely, help them transition into the real world and help get them on their feet -- kind of like the group that helps FLDS kids get out or the people who help Amish kids. Even with my job, it was so freaking hard to deal with all of their anger and reprisals at the ripe old age of 20, especially since I'd been socially hobbled and restricted from interacting with outsiders for the vast majority of my life.

[whoviana]

So I'm wondering how do fundie children escape? Especially women. If they find out about the real world and realize their parents lied to them their whole lives, is there any resentment

I grew up in a patriarchal household and yes, I can tell you that there is a huge resentment towards both parents. I blame my father and my mother equally for my lousy upbringing and I am not really in touch with any sibling that decided not to discontinue the death-cycle. Whenever I see or read or hear anything that echoes like my father's voice in my head, I get jumpy. TBH, I still go to therapy to get over my "upbringing" and I ran away from home pretty early. With no support at all.

Women have what many people need: housekeeping skills so they can start off as a live-in, a housesitter, a housekeeper, etc. I don't know about men, since I had to learn to completely function in real life, equally well as a man by myself, from youtube videos or users manuals. But I did it, and that's all that matters. I wanted to gain the knowledge that was locked away from me in order to make me feel insecure about myself - I still am - and to feel like I'm depending on males. And vice versa. They never let the males near the kitchen, and they grew up thinking that they must score a wuman in order to not die of hunger or not have to live on toaster strudels.

You must have a plan that you cannot share with anyone because anyone you'd trust, will surely rat you out "for your own good". You have to go alone. Save up some money, and as soon as you can rent a shared room, and you can buy enough ramen noodles for a month, you run. If you work hard, look out for opportunities, play smart, you can set yourself free.

The thing that really fuels your willpower is the very resentment towards your parents' lifestyle, the lies, the abuse, the enforced bs gender roles. Any time you'd want to give up, you just have to remember what you are running from.

[Toothfairy]

I grew up in a patriarchal household and yes, I can tell you that there is a huge resentment towards both parents. I blame my father and my mother equally for my lousy upbringing and I am not really in touch with any sibling that decided not to discontinue the death-cycle. Whenever I see or read or hear anything that echoes like my father's voice in my head, I get jumpy. TBH, I still go to therapy to get over my "upbringing" and I ran away from home pretty early. With no support at all.

Women have what many people need: housekeeping skills so they can start off as a live-in, a housesitter, a housekeeper, etc. I don't know about men, since I had to learn to completely function in real life, equally well as a man by myself, from youtube videos or users manuals. But I did it, and that's all that matters. I wanted to gain the knowledge that was locked away from me in order to make me feel insecure about myself - I still am - and to feel like I'm depending on males. And vice versa. They never let the males near the kitchen, and they grew up thinking that they must score a wuman in order to not die of hunger or not have to live on toaster strudels.

You must have a plan that you cannot share with anyone because anyone you'd trust, will surely rat you out "for your own good". You have to go alone. Save up some money, and as soon as you can rent a shared room, and you can buy enough ramen noodles for a month, you run. If you work hard, look out for opportunities, play smart, you can set yourself free.

The thing that really fuels your willpower is the very resentment towards your parents' lifestyle, the lies, the abuse, the enforced bs gender roles. Any time you'd want to give up, you just have to remember what you are running from.

Sorry you had to go through that. I'm glad you're getting the help you need. I always thought that escaping a fundie lifestyle is dangerous. Like if they find out about your plan they might kill or do something horrible to a person. Did your family disown you? How about siblings? Again sorry that you had to go through that. I hate when parents do this to their kids

[Toothfairy]

My parents made two critical mistakes that gave me a way out:

1. They let me go to college. (It was a fundy university, but it still got me out from under their thumbs).

2. They let me have a job.

To successfully get out (in my experience and observations), one has got to have either a way to earn money OR supportive friends/family outside the cult (yeah, I consider it a cult) who can offer them a couch. They also have to be prepared for their family of origin to completely turn their backs on them. My parents nearly became unhinged, and there was a LOT of drama involved before my dad finally disinherited and disowned me.

I've often thought that there should be some kind of group that helps these kids get out safely, help them transition into the real world and help get them on their feet -- kind of like the group that helps FLDS kids get out or the people who help Amish kids. Even with my job, it was so freaking hard to deal with all of their anger and reprisals at the ripe old age of 20, especially since I'd been socially hobbled and restricted from interacting with outsiders for the vast majority of my life.

Polecat that is really horrible your family turned their backs on you. I'm glad you got away and can now eventually slowly start healing. I know it must be hard. I can't imagine what you went through. You made a strong decision that took a lot of courage to do.

Did your siblings disown you too? Can you talk to them? What made you decide this isn't the life for me?

[whoviana]

I think they have just as much resentment towards me as I have towards them. That doesn't mean I want to harm them in any way. I just wish never to meet them again and no matter where we are, it doesn't feel far enough from them. And, trust me, I'm continents away from them. So, no, no assassination plans from either sides. Not too many cards and phone calls, either. We kinda try to forget that the other party ever existed, and before you felt sorry for this, trust me, it's for the best. Thx for your kindness. :wink-kitty:

[Miggy]

When? There is no one answer. It depends on the family.

I have four cousins-in-law, all in their 30s, all but one married and until recently, none had questioned their parents teaching. Why should they? They have nice houses, good jobs, nice wives ... nothing has occurred in their lives to make them question fundydom. A stranger might look at them and say "but they are adults" but, from within the family I can see that they very definitely aren't adults. Being 38, married and having 2 children doesn't make you an adult when your parents control your life. Daddy owns their houses, organised their jobs, is the minister of their church (small country town - only one church), etc. The daughter is a teacher and the mother goes to school with her everyday to help in her classroom. I would not call them responsible for their beliefs yet because they still have the same level of sheltering as they had as children.

I am very excited to say though, that one is rethinking everything. This was triggered by the birth of two disabled child and the election of our "Christian" Prime Minister who is acting the opposite to what this man expected of a Christian. He won't necessarily leave fundydom but it's exciting to think that whatever he decides, it will be HIS decision. (He is 36 and is only just beginning this journey so I haven't given up on the Maxwell offspring.)

[polecat]

Polecat that is really horrible your family turned their backs on you. I'm glad you got away and can now eventually slowly start healing. I know it must be hard. I can't imagine what you went through. You made a strong decision that took a lot of courage to do.

Did your siblings disown you too? Can you talk to them? What made you decide this isn't the life for me?

No. I have only one sister, and although she internalized many of the warped teachings, I don't think she really identifies as a fundy anymore. As for deciding the life wasn't for me, so so so many things ranging from trivial to more serious. When I was a little girl, I hated having to wear skirts or culottes, even when it was 40 below zero outside (Nebraska winters ftw). I wanted to watch the same TV shows that other kids got to watch. I wanted to listen to contemporary Christian music and later, as a teen, pop music. I wanted to wear cute clothes that looked cute on me, not denim jumpers and long broomstick skirts. I wanted to date boys. I wanted to kiss boys. I just wanted to be a normal kid, and it chafed me in every possible way to not be able to do that. On a deeper level, I really strongly rebelled against the idea that I was less-than in anyway way because I was a girl. I didn't want to marry a fundy boy with his slicked-down hair and properly pressed and tucked-in shirts, and I didn't want to spend my life serving him. I had dreams -- I wanted a career and a life.