Kirk Cameron Christmas Movie - MERGE

[nelliebelle1197]

Well, let's simplify this:

The original intent of the foundation documents, laws and charters of the United States expressly forbid the establishment of a state religion. That was intentional as the founders of this government believed in not just the separation of religion and state, but in a secular government. For a publicly funded institution of any sort to promote one religion over the other is not only unconstitutional, it flies in the face of the original intent of our government. No matter what fundies tell you.

[feministxtian]

Well, let's simplify this:

The original intent of the foundation documents, laws and charters of the United States expressly forbid the establishment of a state religion. That was intentional as the founders of this government believed in not just the separation of religion and state, but in a secular government. For a publicly funded institution of any sort to promote one religion over the other is not only unconstitutional, it flies in the face of the original intent of our government. No matter what fundies tell you.

Amen...and this in a nutshell is the reason I take issue with the idea that the US is a "Christian" country. It isn't. Especially since the definition of "Christian" is pretty damn far to the right of my personal beliefs. My answer to those jerks is "Christian" according to who? To the Catholics? The Episcopalians? The Quakers?

[thoughtful]

Well, let's simplify this:

The original intent of the foundation documents, laws and charters of the United States expressly forbid the establishment of a state religion. That was intentional as the founders of this government believed in not just the separation of religion and state, but in a secular government. For a publicly funded institution of any sort to promote one religion over the other is not only unconstitutional, it flies in the face of the original intent of our government. No matter what fundies tell you.

Absolutely.

But I've found that, when this is pointed out as an argument against Christmas in public schools, people still fight it, saying that they are only doing the parts of celebrating Christmas that don't involve talking about Jesus.

Hence my original comment about the movie -- if Kirk is saying that even all of that is still part of Christmas as a Christian celebration, he's making my point for me! :D

[alba]

Thanks for the point I made blue, 2xx2xy1jd. The rhythm, the feel, of the year is different in other traditions, and December is not a universal Holiday Season.

This reminds me of something I heard once; apparently Chanukah is a minor festival in Judaism, but we Gentiles all know about it because it falls around the same time as Christmas, so teachers/TV networks hit upon it when casting about for ways to make their holiday classroom activities/special more diverse.

As a non-Jew, I can't speak for the relative importance of Chanukah in Judaism, but I can tell you that it's pretty much the only Jewish celebration I knew about till my teens.

My aunt's a retired primary school teacher, and she tells me that when she started teaching all the religious education classes were decidedly Christian, but by the time she retired they didn't elevate one religion above others but spent six weeks or so teaching children about different religions from a factual perspective. I don't know if this is a country-wide thing or if it's just in my aunt's area; any other Scots want to weigh in?

[jaynie]

This reminds me of something I heard once; apparently Chanukah is a minor festival in Judaism, but we Gentiles all know about it because it falls around the same time as Christmas, so teachers/TV networks hit upon it when casting about for ways to make their holiday classroom activities/special more diverse.

As a non-Jew, I can't speak for the relative importance of Chanukah in Judaism, but I can tell you that it's pretty much the only Jewish celebration I knew about till my teens.

My aunt's a retired primary school teacher, and she tells me that when she started teaching all the religious education classes were decidedly Christian, but by the time she retired they didn't elevate one religion above others but spent six weeks or so teaching children about different religions from a factual perspective. I don't know if this is a country-wide thing or if it's just in my aunt's area; any other Scots want to weigh in?

My aunt was an RE teacher in England and says the same. Despite being quite Christian herself, I think she preferred the World Religions curriculum.

As an atheist celebrator of Christmas, I loved the festive stuff in school. But I can see that its quite exclusive. If there was a way of acknowledging all major holidays fairly, I think it would be a great opportunity for children to learn about other cultures. But I can see how easily that could go awry, so it would have to be approached carefully.

[DomWackTroll]

Just occurred to me: The poster says "Kirk Cameron's Saving Christmas" - is that a contraction (so "Kirk Cameron is saving Christmas") or possessive (it's Kirk's movie)?? The first would be a clue to Kirk's inflated ego, although claiming a whole movie wouldn't be far behind, egotistically.

He's pulling a Tyler Perry. In more ways than one.

[Rescinded and Mended]

All this talk of holiday recognition in schools reminds me of when my son was in elementary school. One year, he had a teacher who discovered that her class was religiously diverse. This should go without saying, but she was pleased to discover that her kids wanted to talk about what they did to celebrate the holidays. Some kids identified as Christian and celebrated Christmas, and three kids were Muslim and their families were celebrating Ramadan (which had fallen at that time during that particular year), two were Jewish and celebrating Chanukah, one girl was Hindu, and one boy was celebrating Kwaanza.

So my son's teacher came up with the idea of having a day in class that highlighted each of the faiths that were being represented by her students, one day for each faith. Students could bring in food typical to their feast days, maybe bring in some artifacts or icons that were symbolic, and then some information would be given in a lecture and the students could ask questions. I thought this was a terrific way to encourage acceptance and diversity among young children.

She ran the idea by the school principal, who responded with a resounding NO on the grounds that parents might get offended. Offended by what? By the idea that their children would learn something about the outside world and religious ideas not their own? I was pretty disgusted by his response.

Incidentally, this same principal was a Christian who skewed toward fundie-light. He was was offended that we no longer had morning prayer in schools (the district insisted it be called a Moment of Silence instead), so he decided to have prayer around the flagpole. He invited students to show up early in the morning to hold hands with him and pray around the flagpole. I think the district actually sent him a letter warning him against this practice, but he didn't let that stop him.

So to summarize, it's perfectly okay to enforce public displays of Christianity in a non-Christian school because it suits you, even when the bosses at the district level say not to, but it's not okay for kids to learn anything in school about the other two of the three Abrahamic religions, or about any other type of faith or religion for that matter, either.

:evil-eye:

[thoughtful]

This reminds me of something I heard once; apparently Chanukah is a minor festival in Judaism, but we Gentiles all know about it because it falls around the same time as Christmas, so teachers/TV networks hit upon it when casting about for ways to make their holiday classroom activities/special more diverse.

As a non-Jew, I can't speak for the relative importance of Chanukah in Judaism, but I can tell you that it's pretty much the only Jewish celebration I knew about till my teens.

Yep, and that's another part of the problem I've seen in US schools.

It's a bit like being a Catholic in a society where March is considered The Holiday Season, and having people think they are being inclusive by teaching kids about St. Patrick's Day, while ignoring Easter and Christmas.

I actually once wrote a long piece, creating an imaginary situation in which that would happen, to try to make all of the parallels to being someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas, in a way that Christians might understand.

I never showed it to anyone, but it got the frustration off of my chest!

[Miss M]

Based on the movie poster: Uhm, get "saved", or get whacked in the face by a former child star, with candy stick? :?

I want to know where he got that tits bowling ball, because I WANT ONE!!

[Mama Mia]

I'm interested in all the mentions of Religious Education in schools. Since they don't do that where I live I wonder what that entails? Is it like a survey of various faith histories? Is it a one time course at a certain age, or is it included all the time like math or English? What religions are included, and how do they decide what's included and what's not? Is it run like a history course, or more like an arts class with singing?

[alba]

I'm interested in all the mentions of Religious Education in schools. Since they don't do that where I live I wonder what that entails? Is it like a survey of various faith histories? Is it a one time course at a certain age, or is it included all the time like math or English? What religions are included, and how do they decide what's included and what's not? Is it run like a history course, or more like an arts class with singing?

It depends. At my private, Anglican school in Canada, it was like Sunday School, but duller. I *still* have the ten commandments memorised. It was every year of elementary school, though we did replace it with World Religions one year.

Here in the UK, I only know what I've heard second-hand, but I think it was initially like I experienced, but gradually became more focused on treating different faiths factually. In secondary school it's replaced with something like religious and moral education, which incorporates philosophy and modern ethical dilemmas.

[Emme]

I still don't get the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings thing. Does Kirk really not understand that Christmas is not the only Winter holiday, or does he just not give a shit since Christianity is like, the best and most important thing evurrrrr.... Is he that much of a d-bag that he can't even recognize that other holidays exist?

[alba]

I still don't get the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays/Seasons Greetings thing. Does Kirk really not understand that Christmas is not the only Winter holiday, or does he just not give a shit since Christianity is like, the best and most important thing evurrrrr.... Is he that much of a d-bag that he can't even recognize that other holidays exist?

I think a lot of the people who have a problem with the phrase "Happy Holidays" do so because to them "Merry Christmas" seems more natural, and so "Happy Holidays" assumes a non-Christian religious celebration, and so they see it as elevating all other faiths above Christianity. This is bullshit, of course, but I would also argue that the phrase does no such thing. It's simply more accurate.

For one thing, most Christians celebrate New Year's as well as Christmas; in fact, here in Scotland Christmas has traditionally been regarded so seriously by Christians that it was a day spent solemnly in church, with the real celebrations happening at Hogmanay (New Year's Eve). For another, either phrase is often used before a two-week break from school, which is - wait for it - frequently known as a holiday.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I'm interested in all the mentions of Religious Education in schools. Since they don't do that where I live I wonder what that entails? Is it like a survey of various faith histories? Is it a one time course at a certain age, or is it included all the time like math or English? What religions are included, and how do they decide what's included and what's not? Is it run like a history course, or more like an arts class with singing?

Here in the UK, we have religious education in school. In the UK, there is no separation of church and state, Christianity is our country's religion (however as a whole, the UK is way less religious than the USA, pretty much nobody is a creationist, hardly any fundies, most people don't even go to church regularly). This means that in our school assemblies, there are Christian prayers and songs.

In RE classes in Primary School (4-11 years), it starts off with being read stories from religious texts-mostly Christian, but also from Islam (The area I grew up has a large Muslim population), and do an activity to do with that and talk about it and stuff. At Christmas, we always learned the Christmas story and put on a play of it for our families to watch. We also learned about the main beliefs of both religions, and I remember when I was 5 or 6, a Muslim girl in our class was able to stand up and talk about her religion, and even bought in a prayer mat to show us all. We also did various activities for different religious festivals when they came up, but most of it was Christianity, with a bit of stuff on other religions represented in our classroom.

In High School (11-16 years) we learned more about Christianity and Islam and their origins and beliefs, but also learned about the other main world religions, their origins, beliefs and stories from their culture. We also learned about moral issues and debated them and were encouraged to develop our own opinions on them, as well as learning about other religions (and branches of Christianity) thought on certain issues, like birth control, abortions and euthanasia, and things like where about in pregnancy they considered life to start, and verses from holy books that they used to support their views, looked at propaganda and protests and stuff from both sides of issues (I think they censored out the gory bits).

[Marianne]

Here in the UK, we have religious education in school. In the UK, there is no separation of church and state, Christianity is our country's religion (however as a whole, the UK is way less religious than the USA, pretty much nobody is a creationist, hardly any fundies, most people don't even go to church regularly). This means that in our school assemblies, there are Christian prayers and songs.

Does the christian prayers and songs are mandatory or atheist/muslims/nonchristian children have the right to leave the assembly ? Does they learn about atheism, theism and agnosticism ? Do you speak about the philosophy of religion (proof of the existence of God and this kind of things) or maybe you do it during philosophy class ? About the sociology of religion ?

I wonder how it is to live in a country without secularism and a monarchy

[ILoveJellybeans]

Does the christian prayers and songs are mandatory or atheist/muslims/nonchristian children have the right to leave the assembly ? Does they learn about atheism, theism and agnosticism ? Do you speak about the philosophy of religion (proof of the existence of God and this kind of things) or maybe you do it during philosophy class ? About the sociology of religion ?

I wonder how it is to live in a country without secularism and a monarchy

I don't know whether we were allowed to leave, I became an atheist at about 7, and always felt so fake doing the prayers and stuff, but I was always too shy to ask whether it was optional.

Yes, we learned the definitions of theism, atheism and agnosticism. I remember it coming up in class when I was about 11.

I cant remember much about what we learned about philosophy.

Here are the National Curriculum guidelines on Religious Education

Key Stage 1 (5-7)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... index.aspx

Key Stage 2 (7-11)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... index.aspx

Key Stage 3 (11-14)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... aspx?tab=1

Key Stage 4 (14-16).

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... aspx?tab=1

When it comes to living in a country with a state religion and a monarchy, it doesn't really affect our daily life, in fact, the UK is way more liberal and less Christian than America, which has the separation of church and state. Most people don't really care too much about religion.

In schools, they are all somewhat Christian, but there are also plenty of faith schools for specific denominations of Christianity, local to me there are two Church of England ones (Protestant) and a few Catholic ones. When I was in college, one of my work experience placements was at a Catholic Primary School. The religious aspects of the faith schools are more obvious than at most schools-there is more talk of God, and they do prayers a few times a day throughout the school, one in the mornings, they say grace before lunch, and when they are about to go home. Its not fundie though, just religious, don't know what they think about sex education, as it didn't come up-the kids I worked with were five. I assume they taught evolution as how God created the Earth, as there is only a very small minority of creationists (Met one once, who was holding a cross and protesting outside QEDcon, which was a science convention where Richard Dawkins was speaking at). We learned about evolution in school though.

In everything else, it doesn't really matter. We don't even get as many fundies, preachers or protesters. Theres a bunch of Jehovahs Witnesses who come around, one of them lives round the corner, she is nice and has never attempted to preach to us, but brought round stuff for the kids and did our shopping after my mother died. Met a few American Mormon missionaries, seen the occasional person handing out tracts (usually of the Jesus loves you kind, not the YOU ARE GOING TO HELL ones) but theyre not overtly pushy, then the creationist guy holding a cross and shouting about how evolution is lies. I don't think we have any Quiverfull people, one of the people in a documentary about large families was quite religious, but theyre as close as it gets.

[Palimpsest]

Kirk Cameron is a twerp of the highest order and a very bad actor! :lol:

Interesting discussion though.

I reserve the right (as an atheist) to be a complete hypocrite and celebrate Christmas in a way that incorporates the cultural (and yes Christian) elements that Mr P and I remember fondly from our childhoods without focusing on religion. That does include exchanging gifts, having a tree and decorating, a festive meal, playing Christmas carols, and always having a sing-along to the Messiah (so sue me, it's good music!)

I also respond to any greeting whether it is Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, or Season's Greetings with "Thank you, and to you too!" Why slap someone in the chops for good wishes. :shrug:

That said I'm of the opinion that all religion should be kept out of US public schools (except for courses specifically focused on Comparative Religion) for the reasons stated above by others -- from the Constitution, to avoiding feelings of exclusion and, honestly, just good taste.

I get where you were coming from, Rescinded and Mended, but I would have given that well-meaning teacher in your post below a resounding NO too, but for different reasons.

All this talk of holiday recognition in schools reminds me of when my son was in elementary school. One year, he had a teacher who discovered that her class was religiously diverse. This should go without saying, but she was pleased to discover that her kids wanted to talk about what they did to celebrate the holidays. Some kids identified as Christian and celebrated Christmas, and three kids were Muslim and their families were celebrating Ramadan (which had fallen at that time during that particular year), two were Jewish and celebrating Chanukah, one girl was Hindu, and one boy was celebrating Kwaanza.

So my son's teacher came up with the idea of having a day in class that highlighted each of the faiths that were being represented by her students, one day for each faith. Students could bring in food typical to their feast days, maybe bring in some artifacts or icons that were symbolic, and then some information would be given in a lecture and the students could ask questions. I thought this was a terrific way to encourage acceptance and diversity among young children.

She ran the idea by the school principal, who responded with a resounding NO on the grounds that parents might get offended. Offended by what? By the idea that their children would learn something about the outside world and religious ideas not their own? I was pretty disgusted by his response.

See, the problem with her idea is that in the "Holiday Season" situated around a primary Christian (dominant culture) holiday the talking points would be possibly elevating religious elements of other religions beyond what observant parents might wish -- or being downright disrespectful.

Examples: Chanukah is a comparatively minor holiday that some Jewish people consider to have been vastly inflated in importance to compete with Christmas. Kwaanza (created in the 1960s) is regarded these days as a celebration of African cultural heritage rather than a religious observance and alternative to Christmas. Ramadan is a month of fasting (food and drink can only be consumed before sunrise and after sunset). Prepubescent children are not required to fast this stringently, but are required to abstain from some foods and fun activities. So bringing in food while the kids were semi-fasting would be a no-no. Ramadan does end in Eid al-Fitr one of two Islamic feast days, but still.

I attended a private school in Africa with a very international and religiously diverse student body back in the day. It was run using the UK curriculum of the time on Anglican principles and everyone had to sing hymns in morning assembly and practice for the carol service. No exceptions regardless of religion.

I clearly remember when Ramadan was observed in November and December a whole series of crashes as numerous Ramadan-observing students fainted during morning assembly and carol practice and were carried out to be laid in rows in the room next door to recover. I'd speculate that only a few fainters genuinely passed out. The rest were engaged in very effective passive resistance. :)

[nana sew dear]

I've been reading along and thinking, why not celebrate a secular Christmas in schools? Reading some of the other posts caused a lot of introspection.

I realized that I was raised as a white protestant. I have spent all but about 5 years of my 57 year life in the Pacific Northwest. That means I can remember the one black kid at school or the Chinese sisters whose parents ran the only Chinese restaurant in town. Celebrating holidays at schools was such fun and something we looked forward to.

As I read I realized I was panicking because I was nostalgic for those times and wanted them for my grandchildren. But...my husband and I have been atheist for years and the same is true for most of our children. I don't want any child to think that their spiritual practices from home are not as important just because they are in the minority at school.

FJ has taught me a lesson today. No religious based holidays at school.

Thank you all.

[Benk]

But don't most public schools do some sort of basic run down / cultural celebration of any major holidays that they have reason to believe are represented by students in their classrooms? And often ones that aren't?

Based on the data point of our local school system's current practice - nope. In the past few years, we've encountered both well-intentioned-tokenism and passive-aggressive hostility, but it is clearly up to the teacher, what, if anything, they do about any religious holiday.

[Emme]

I think a lot of the people who have a problem with the phrase "Happy Holidays" do so because to them "Merry Christmas" seems more natural, and so "Happy Holidays" assumes a non-Christian religious celebration, and so they see it as elevating all other faiths above Christianity. This is bullshit, of course, but I would also argue that the phrase does no such thing. It's simply more accurate.

For one thing, most Christians celebrate New Year's as well as Christmas; in fact, here in Scotland Christmas has traditionally been regarded so seriously by Christians that it was a day spent solemnly in church, with the real celebrations happening at Hogmanay (New Year's Eve). For another, either phrase is often used before a two-week break from school, which is - wait for it - frequently known as a holiday.

Good point! I really don't care WHAT people say, and like some other poster, appreciate anyone who wants to wish me well, but the fundie/conservative Christian obsession with the phrase "Merry Christmas" in a season with other holidays has always irked me. It just seems self-centered.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yep, and that's another part of the problem I've seen in US schools.

It's a bit like being a Catholic in a society where March is considered The Holiday Season, and having people think they are being inclusive by teaching kids about St. Patrick's Day, while ignoring Easter and Christmas.

I actually once wrote a long piece, creating an imaginary situation in which that would happen, to try to make all of the parallels to being someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas, in a way that Christians might understand.

I never showed it to anyone, but it got the frustration off of my chest!

THANKS!

To use another example from this time of year - imagine being the token non-Jewish, North American kid in the class when everyone is celebrating Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Sukkot and Simchat Torah. Your classmates talk about having a month of really big holidays - and the teacher looks at you with pity and says, "but wait! You must celebrate Labor Day!" You try to explain that Labor Day is good and all, but it's a pretty minor thing and your big holidays comes later - but the school has dictated that September is Holiday Month and nobody has time to hear about what you do in December or the spring.

That's why I don't make a big deal about Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays. Plus, I don't need retail employees to validate my religion, and don't get off on harassing people making minimum wage.

[Marianne]

I don't know whether we were allowed to leave, I became an atheist at about 7, and always felt so fake doing the prayers and stuff, but I was always too shy to ask whether it was optional.

Yes, we learned the definitions of theism, atheism and agnosticism. I remember it coming up in class when I was about 11.

I cant remember much about what we learned about philosophy.

Here are the National Curriculum guidelines on Religious Education

Key Stage 1 (5-7)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... index.aspx

Key Stage 2 (7-11)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... index.aspx

Key Stage 3 (11-14)

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... aspx?tab=1

Key Stage 4 (14-16).

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov. ... aspx?tab=1

When it comes to living in a country with a state religion and a monarchy, it doesn't really affect our daily life, in fact, the UK is way more liberal and less Christian than America, which has the separation of church and state. Most people don't really care too much about religion.

In schools, they are all somewhat Christian, but there are also plenty of faith schools for specific denominations of Christianity, local to me there are two Church of England ones (Protestant) and a few Catholic ones. When I was in college, one of my work experience placements was at a Catholic Primary School. The religious aspects of the faith schools are more obvious than at most schools-there is more talk of God, and they do prayers a few times a day throughout the school, one in the mornings, they say grace before lunch, and when they are about to go home. Its not fundie though, just religious, don't know what they think about sex education, as it didn't come up-the kids I worked with were five. I assume they taught evolution as how God created the Earth, as there is only a very small minority of creationists (Met one once, who was holding a cross and protesting outside QEDcon, which was a science convention where Richard Dawkins was speaking at). We learned about evolution in school though.

In everything else, it doesn't really matter. We don't even get as many fundies, preachers or protesters. Theres a bunch of Jehovahs Witnesses who come around, one of them lives round the corner, she is nice and has never attempted to preach to us, but brought round stuff for the kids and did our shopping after my mother died. Met a few American Mormon missionaries, seen the occasional person handing out tracts (usually of the Jesus loves you kind, not the YOU ARE GOING TO HELL ones) but theyre not overtly pushy, then the creationist guy holding a cross and shouting about how evolution is lies. I don't think we have any Quiverfull people, one of the people in a documentary about large families was quite religious, but theyre as close as it gets.

Thank you for you answers :) On religion, the UK seems to be like France. (the american mormon missionaries... XD) I would have love to have this kind of class, when I was a teenager. We learned about religion a little in history, but when I was in the last year of High School, a lot of my friends thought that Mohammed have write the Bible and a lot of people did not know who Jesus was. We see religion in philosophy, also, and it was cool.

[Phoenix]

Kirk Cameron is a tool. I am sure he will be laughing all the way to the bank with his patched together, slapstick, mocking everyone but his viewpoint movie.

Christmas was great as a kid growing up Catholic. For many years now Christmas has been hijacked by grief. There are only so many days in a calendar year and never a good time to loose a loved one, but Christmas has basically sucked without fail since we buried a family member the week before. The week after the youngest child in the family turned 18. This is not remotely a unique story, it has happened to a lot of Christian families. It just doesn't seem to get better as time wears on.

Previously comforting and familiar traditions both religious and secular bring nothing but pain now. There isn't much joy involved when I walk into the church I was raised in and all I can see in my minds eye is that damn coffin sitting in front of the altar. I haven't bothered with Christmas mass in years. Extended family gatherings are hell on earth. Family traditions only highlight the loss. I try to find appropriate and affordable gifts but rarely is the effort reciprocated.

And yeah, last year Dad and I ate Chinese food for Christmas Eve dinner and skipped midnight mass.

At this point I think my Jewish friends have a good idea and I would rather spend Christmas Day in a movie theater distracted, trying to forget.

One sibling and her partner of many years went to each other's different holiday events, observances and meals and were welcomed by both families. One thing about having different faith traditions, no arguments about who goes where because the important days often don't overlap.

I know this isn't about Kirk Cameron, but just noting there is more than one way to hijack Christmas or any other holy day. I could care less about the semantics. Wish me well and I will do the same for you.

[Rescinded and Mended]

You're right, Palimpsest. I knew about the rules regarding fasting during Ramadan, but neglected to clarify in my last post. I don't think the teacher knew about them at all, but I can see where the restrictions on fasting and activities would have thrown a wrench in the works. Thanks for setting me straight. :)

[RandomTrivia]

So, not to totally hijack the Kirk-the-Twerp snark, what would be acceptable activities for a grade-school pre-winter-vacation party? Because I'm pretty sure I signed myself up to do the Winter classroom party for the kiddo's class. (They do 3 class parties a year - Halloween, Valentine's Day, and Winter/Christmas.) And after reading this, I'm starting to wonder what I set myself up for. (Do we have a "Panic" smiley?) Nothing religious, of course, but I guess Santa and reindeer are still sort of semi-secular Christian. Snowmen and snowflakes? It's a private school, so the winter musical performance is not holiday-related at all - it just falls halfway through the school year in December.

I'm another one who grew up in a "typical" very-rural-small-town US school in the 80s. Lots of pale people (with farmer tans), Christmas everything in December, pretty sure we sang a lot of Christian Christmas songs - along with Frosty the Snowman and All I Want for Christmas is my Two Front Teeth - and did Christmas decorations in art class. The most atypical thing I can think of is a girl in my class who was a Jehovah's Witness and left the room when we had birthday treats or anything like that. Not a lot of variety there.